Socializing What do you do when your fundamentals/looks outshines your game? I feel like an Impostor

[The Emerald Archer]

Happy 2023 gentlemen! Hope this year brings you tons of success and personal growth.


SYNOPSIS

I’ve got an interesting dilemma that I’ve been mulling over for the past few months, and I’ve decided that it’s time to toss it to the forums to see what you guys think.

In a nutshell, my fundamentals/appearance blows my game out of the water. My game is so far behind my fundamentals that it’s not even funny.

And I’m not talking about general social skills. I’ve got pretty good baseline social skills and then some.

I’m at the point with people now where I’m easily deep-diving people and having them open up to me very fast. This female co-worker of mine whom I just became friends with a little over a month ago joked with another co-worker of ours “oh you know, I basically told Emerald my life story and now we’re friends.”

To which our other co-worker replied, “yeah, there’s something about Emerald that makes it easy for you to open up and trust him.”

The same thing with a third co-worker who is younger (about 22 years old) and was telling me about some of the girls he asked out at work, including a botched escalation on a date. As he was telling me this, he mentioned how he feels he can trust me, that I give good advice, and so on.

Now I open up to these folks too, it’s not all one-sided where they share all these details about themselves, yet I give nothing in return. But I seem to be non-judgmental enough and communicate trust and some degree of warmth to be getting these types of responses from people.

And this is nothing new for me. Ever since my early 20’s (I’m 30 now) I’ve been good at getting people to open up. I’ve repeatedly heard things like “I’ve known you the least amount of time from everyone here, yet I feel I can trust you the most.”

I interpret these as really good signs that my conversational ability is at least halfway decent, along with my general social skills and coolness.

Of course, there’s always room for improvement, but I wouldn’t consider basic social skills/lack of social calibration my major sticking point here.

I’m talking about my game with girls. Even if I get girls chasing me, I still don’t know how to take that and lead it into the bedroom.


STICKING POINT

I struggle to pounce on escalation windows, approach invitations, and other signs of interest. It’s part nervousness and hesitation due to my lack of experience, but it’s also part overthinking and feel so overwhelmed with every step of the seduction process.

If I get approach invitations and proximity, which I’ve been noticing TONS of recently (not just at work/social circle, but when I’m out and about in public too), I don’t know how to open or start the conversation smoothly, so I hesitate.

I also find myself internally debating as to whether or not it’s truly a sign of interest, or if the girl is just being friendly or polite, etc. Thus, I hesitate and miss the windows.

This is causing me to miss what I believe to be golden opportunities and it’s stressing me out.

When I was younger, I used to think girls didn’t notice me or didn’t find me that attractive. Now I’ve started to realize (as I’ve studied the approach signals/signs of interest more) that girls did like me and found me attractive, but I didn’t know what to do and/or hesitated out of nervousness and doubt.

It feels like if I could get my game to a halfway decent level, where I’m comfortable leading and making moves and not letting rejections or resistance stun me, then I would be getting laid fairly regularly. At least 1 new girl a month or 2.

It’s to the point where I’m feeling some major impostor syndrome. People look at me, and see the way I carry myself, see me being cool, social, and friendly and even flirting with girls with confidence and they all think I’m this guy who must be good with girls, but I’m not there yet.

Girls also tend to think I’m a fuckboy/player more often than not. Thus, when I miss these shorter escalation windows (because they assume me to know what I’m doing), they get miffed or disappointed.

I’ve noticed girls cooling off after one or two interactions (now this is at work, so it’s social circle not cold approach. I need to get cold approaching ASAP and quit being a pu**y for sure).

WTF?

This is why I’m struggling right now. Girls give me (very) short escalation windows, but because my reference points and experience level isn’t up to par yet, I miss them left and right and it’s FRUSTRATING AS HELL!!

I should also mention that I’ve lost 20-25 lbs in the past year. I had gotten quite chunky after college and throughout COVID, but I got back into the gym in 2021 and have hit my stride with it, combined with working a warehouse job 20+ hours per week.

My physique is getting me lots of attention, combined with my fairly good fundamentals and looks, and honestly, I get a little shy about it sometimes.

And I think this shyness is causing people to interpret me as aloof/arrogant. People comment on how I seem very confident because of my walk and the vibe/way I carry myself.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m fairly social and outgoing and most people seem to respond well to me and like me.


QUESTION

But what do I do about those short escalation windows and everyone (girls included) expecting me to be really good with girls when I’m not (yet)?

How the hell am I supposed to get better and level up if I only have very small windows with which to operate?

I feel like a major impostor right now, despite knowing that I have tons of potential. And it doesn’t help that I see guys who are wayyyyy more schlubby than me getting laid at least occasionally. Meanwhile, I am not.

What should I do?

TL;DR

• My fundamentals are so much better than my game, that everyone thinks I’m really good with girls when I am not (yet).
• As a result, girls give me short escalation windows and I miss them left and right because of my inexperience.
• This causes girls to cool off relatively quickly and/or probably think something’s wrong with me.
• Guys think I must be amazing with girls because of my looks, and confident vibe. Plus, they see me having conversations with girls and getting warm receptions, along with some flirting.
• I feel like a major impostor; a phony; a fake. I also feel tons of pressure to live up to this expectation of me being really good with girls.
• I feel a lot of pressure to live up to this because I don’t want to feel like an impostor.
• All of this is causing me immense frustration and stress, because I feel like I should be getting laid way more than I am now (which is not at all)

 

[Rakehell]

TL;DR

• My fundamentals are so much better than my game, that everyone thinks I’m really good with girls when I am not (yet).
• As a result, girls give me short escalation windows and I miss them left and right because of my inexperience.
• This causes girls to cool off relatively quickly and/or probably think something’s wrong with me.
• Guys think I must be amazing with girls because of my looks, and confident vibe. Plus, they see me having conversations with girls and getting warm receptions, along with some flirting.
• I feel like a major impostor; a phony; a fake. I also feel tons of pressure to live up to this expectation of me being really good with girls.
• I feel a lot of pressure to live up to this because I don’t want to feel like an impostor.
• All of this is causing me immense frustration and stress, because I feel like I should be getting laid way more than I am now (which is not at all)

I prob sound like a broken record at this point, but what you should do, is do the thing.

The uncertainties go away once you’re trying the thing. Easier said than done I realize, but the feelings of uncertainty won’t go away until you’re testing your mettle.

Even if you turn out to suck, you’ll see what has to be improved on. Much better than living in that gray area of getting down on yourself because of expectations you aren’t even trying to fulfill.

Moreover it should be for yourself, because you have a sex drive, and probably want women in your life. Not because other people see you as some sex god.

Use those feelings to see what you’re made of, simple as that. May surprise yourself.

 

[The Emerald Archer]

I prob sound like a broken record at this point, but what you should do, is do the thing.

The uncertainties go away once you’re trying the thing. Easier said than done I realize, but the feelings of uncertainty won’t go away until you’re testing your mettle.

Even if you turn out to suck, you’ll see what has to be improved on. Much better than living in that gray area of getting down on yourself because of expectations you aren’t even trying to fulfill.

Moreover it should be for yourself, because you have a sex drive, and probably want women in your life. Not because other people see you as some sex god.

Use those feelings to see what you’re made of, simple as that. May surprise yourself.

Hey @Rakehell,

Thanks for the feedback man.

I hear ya. I'm definitely hesitating to take action and I realize that doing so is causing me lots of mental masturbation.

After reading over my post, I don't think I communicated what I intended to with the post.

The pressure and expectations are part of the problem, yes.

But I was mainly looking for what tweaks to make to my strategy and process being in this predicament where there's a gap between my outward appearance/fundamentals and my game.

For example, if girls already expect me to be good because of my good looks and fundamentals, should I just assume every girl wants my cock since that's probably closer to the truth than not, and act big and bold even if it means looking like an uncalibrated idiot?

Of course, not all girls are interested in me, but would acting from that frame 10x my learning curve so I can actually take advantage of my fundamentals for faster pickups and success?

I was looking through some posts I bookmarked about how improving fundamentals gets you certain reactions from girls/people, and to not let that affect you.

Like the stuff you alluded to in this thread

Welcome to the club my friend:, being super high tier fundamentals wise is the ultimate confidence booster.

But a-lot changes as you’re gonna come to find out, maybe you already have.

I think the number one piece of advice I can give you right now is don’t take any reactions at face value. People think when you present like a god among men, people are gonna grovel and drop to your feet as you prance around in public. WRONG.

You’re gonna find that at the surface level, some women are gonna be alot more reserved and almost cold around you. It’s gonna feel like pulling teeth a bit. They’re gonna be alot more sensitive as you’ve already discovered. They aren’t going to act how you’d expect.

This isn’t disinterest, it’s intimidation. It’s very similar to how a girl act’s around a guy she isn’t interested in, there’s just a different reason behind it.

This is because they feel as though they aren’t in your league. I almost never comment anything that could be perceived as super cocky because people already assume you’re cocky, it reinforces that belief. People GENUINELY view you as some kind of authority on outward appearance and personal style.

You coax her out of her shell by being a bit more attainable. There’s plenty of resources for this on the main site that have helped me.

On the inverse you’ll find younger women compliment you alot less than if you were just “okay” or even semi good looking. They don’t want to boost your ego, they don’t want to add to your harem, they’re too anxious about themselves too. I’d recommend finding things in yourself that you can feel confident about and being a closed circuit from outside validation, it easily becomes a double edged sword. Especially when women aren’t complimenting you when you feel they should be.

You’ll rarely get more than stares and women acting really “weird” around you. On a good day you’ll know exactly why. On a bad day it can easily feed any small insecurities. Life of a celebrity without fame lol.

Also, @DarkKnight has mentioned several times that girls give you way too much power when your fundamentals are pretty good.

• Like what does that mean they "give you too much power?" Is that a good thing? How can you capitalize on that?
• How can you tell the difference between girls being intimidated by you and plain 'ole disinterest?
• Also, what other ways can you tell if your fundamentals are intimidating people because they're really good, or because your vibe is scary/off?
• What are some other ways girls (and people) act "weird" when you have pretty good fundamentals/looks?

That's where the discouragement comes from. Not gonna lie, it low-key messes with my confidence on my worst days as you mentioned above.

Observations I've noticed with both guys/girls:

• I definitely get girls acting weird around me, but it feels more like shyness/nervousness. Girls I've spoken to multiple times at work before still won't engage me first despite the fact we've interacted multiple times before and they know me. I've even deep-dived them (like I mentioned above) and they seem to really like me, but when I'm walking by they won't say hi or pretend like they don't see me. What gives?
• Same thing with dudes I'm acquainted with. It's like I ALWAYS have to initiate the conversation even though these are folks I've conversed with multiple times before.
• And most guys are friendly toward me and are quick to comply so long as I'm gracious about it. People don't seem to have any qualms about doing me favors either. Even my managers at work (both male and female) seem to want to talk to me and get to know me. When I ask them for something, they seem enthusiastic to help me and fist-bump me lol.
• I also notice guys trying to get my attention by hovering near me (lol) or trying to find an excuse to engage me in conversation. They also tend to move out of my way without me having to ask or say "excuse me." At work, at the gym, at the grocery store, etc. I have my muscles to thank for that one ha.
• Also, people tend to stare at me HARD whenever I'm in a tank top. Both guys and girls. Especially at work since it's an active job. People always make comments about my muscles, not just at work, but everywhere really. It sorta(?) feels uncomfortable, but I'm also flattered.
• Generally speaking, people tend to receive me well and I'm fairly well-liked (by most people, can't please everyone...), but yeah a lot of people seem to be reserved around me, almost cold as you mentioned in that thread

These are good signs right (well besides the reserved/cold part)?

I just hope it's cuz my fundamentals are damn good and not because they're intimidated by me like you would a street thug.

That's more along the lines of what I intended to communicate with my original post. Little insights like that to keep in mind to put it all into perspective.

That's what I meant when I said my inexperience is causing me frustration because I suspect I may be misinterpreting these behaviors from others as disinterest for intimidation because I don't yet have the experience/insights to understand all that.

I'm just trying to make sense of all these reactions to see what tweaks I need to be making socially to level up fast.

My mistake if my message wasn't communicated clearly enough. The written word is not my communication strong suit, I'm much better at speaking than I am at writing.

 

[TomInHo]

Wow there is a lot to unpack here

SYNOPSIS

I’ve got an interesting dilemma that I’ve been mulling over for the past few months, and I’ve decided that it’s time to toss it to the forums to see what you guys think.

In a nutshell, my fundamentals/appearance blows my game out of the water. My game is so far behind my fundamentals that it’s not even funny.

Actually, as your fundamentals improve, you will also need to modify your game to fit your new image

And I’m not talking about general social skills. I’ve got pretty good baseline social skills and then some.

I’m at the point with people now where I’m easily deep-diving people and having them open up to me very fast. This female co-worker of mine whom I just became friends with a little over a month ago joked with another co-worker of ours “oh you know, I basically told Emerald my life story and now we’re friends.”

To which our other co-worker replied, “yeah, there’s something about Emerald that makes it easy for you to open up and trust him.”

That's good that you're good at getting people to open up. Means your game is not as bad as you think

STICKING POINT

I struggle to pounce on escalation windows, approach invitations, and other signs of interest. It’s part nervousness and hesitation due to my lack of experience, but it’s also part overthinking and feel so overwhelmed with every step of the seduction process.

This probably gonna sound ridiculous, but to get good at escalating you have to practice escalating.

You're good at deep diving because you practiced it. So you will need to get good at escalation by doing the same regardless how much anxiety you feel about it

If I get approach invitations and proximity, which I’ve been noticing TONS of recently (not just at work/social circle, but when I’m out and about in public too), I don’t know how to open or start the conversation smoothly, so I hesitate.

If you don't know how to open, you can use something situational to spark conversation. Something as simple as saying "Crazy Night huh!" can open girls

You can also get 2-3 generic openers that you always default too. Don't obsess about the opener too much. Especially if the girl gave you AIs

I also find myself internally debating as to whether or not it’s truly a sign of interest, or if the girl is just being friendly or polite, etc. Thus, I hesitate and miss the windows.

Quick tip! If your fundies are that great.... you should imagine every girl wants you

It sounds crazy, but when you have this mindset you will see more openings and believe them to be true

So if you're unsure if it was a window.. escalate anyways

Sure you will be wrong sometimes but you will also be right other times too. And as a result your intuition for reading signals will improve

This is causing me to miss what I believe to be golden opportunities and it’s stressing me out.

Then stop missing them!

It’s to the point where I’m feeling some major impostor syndrome. People look at me, and see the way I carry myself, see me being cool, social, and friendly and even flirting with girls with confidence and they all think I’m this guy who must be good with girls, but I’m not there yet.

You're being too hard on yourself.

I get the feeling like you want to fuck women because it's the cool thing to do, rather than actually having the strong desires to ram your dick up some wet pussy

Who the hell cares what your friends think about your ability with girls?

Girls also tend to think I’m a fuckboy/player more often than not. Thus, when I miss these shorter escalation windows (because they assume me to know what I’m doing), they get miffed or disappointed.

Girls are just like that G! When you don't make a move they feel like you are rejecting them.

And the reason why the windows appear shorter when your fundies are great isn't because they expect you to know what you're doing. It's because the girls are more scared of getting rejected themselves

May sound like a mind-fuck but a lot the times they're not even really thinking about you. They are more concerned about how you are making them feel


Let me give you an example of how a girl may be thinking

Girl: Omg! That's Archer he's such a hunk
Girl: Does my make-up look ok?
Girl: I'm blonde but I heard a rumor that he likes brunettes
Girl: I want him so bad but does he like me?
Girl: He never says hi
Girl: You know what fuck it! I'm gonna go over there and say I like his shirt. That should get us into conversation

Girl: I really like your shirt
Archer: Oh thanks!
Girl: hehe.. okay bye


Girl: That's all he could say.. thanks
Girl: He probably thinks I'm ugly
Girl: God, I feel so embarrassed why did I do that

This is why I’m struggling right now. Girls give me (very) short escalation windows, but because my reference points and experience level isn’t up to par yet, I miss them left and right and it’s FRUSTRATING AS HELL!!

I should also mention that I’ve lost 20-25 lbs in the past year. I had gotten quite chunky after college and throughout COVID, but I got back into the gym in 2021 and have hit my stride with it, combined with working a warehouse job 20+ hours per week.

My physique is getting me lots of attention, combined with my fairly good fundamentals and looks, and honestly, I get a little shy about it sometimes.

No worries. You'll get used to your new body

QUESTION

But what do I do about those short escalation windows and everyone (girls included) expecting me to be really good with girls when I’m not (yet)?

Easy... train yourself to pounce on them when they come up and stop expecting them to stay open forever

How the hell am I supposed to get better and level up if I only have very small windows with which to operate?

Practice makes perfect

I feel like a major impostor right now, despite knowing that I have tons of potential. And it doesn’t help that I see guys who are wayyyyy more schlubby than me getting laid at least occasionally. Meanwhile, I am not.

Isn't it ironic

The better your fundies are, the higher the risk of sending girls in auto-rejection. You can either accept and adapt to the drawbacks of being so damn beautiful

Or you can alway make yourself uglier so that you can game just like those schlubby guys

What should I do?

Get out of your head and start escalating

 

[DarkKnight]

And the reason why the windows appear shorter when your fundies are great isn't because they expect you to know what you're doing.

Kinda not sure about this Tom. When you come across as smooth (also fundamentals) they do seem to expect you to be have telepathic powers. But agreed it is also the greater fear of rejection due to you having higher value. So probably truth on both sides depending on how experienced you come across aside from Emerald being a super stud with looks and presence.

 

[Rakehell]

Wow there is a lot to unpack here



Actually, as your fundamentals improve, you will also need to modify your game to fit your new image



That's good that you're good at getting people to open up. Means your game is not as bad as you think



This probably gonna sound ridiculous, but to get good at escalating you have to practice escalating.

You're good at deep diving because you practiced it. So you will need to get good at escalation by doing the same regardless how much anxiety you feel about it



If you don't know how to open, you can use something situational to spark conversation. Something as simple as saying "Crazy Night huh!" can open girls

You can also get 2-3 generic openers that you always default too. Don't obsess about the opener too much. Especially if the girl gave you AIs



Quick tip! If your fundies are that great.... you should imagine every girl wants you

It sounds crazy, but when you have this mindset you will see more openings and believe them to be true

So if you're unsure if it was a window.. escalate anyways

Sure you will be wrong sometimes but you will also be right other times too. And as a result your intuition for reading signals will improve



Then stop missing them!



You're being too hard on yourself.

I get the feeling like you want to fuck women because it's the cool thing to do, rather than actually having the strong desires to ram your dick up some wet pussy

Who the hell cares what your friends think about your ability with girls?



Girls are just like that G! When you don't make a move they feel like you are rejecting them.

And the reason why the windows appear shorter when your fundies are great isn't because they expect you to know what you're doing. It's because the girls are more scared of getting rejected themselves

May sound like a mind-fuck but a lot the times they're not even really thinking about you. They are more concerned about how you are making them feel


Let me give you an example of how a girl may be thinking

Girl: Omg! That's Archer he's such a hunk
Girl: Does my make-up look ok?
Girl: I'm blonde but I heard a rumor that he likes brunettes
Girl: I want him so bad but does he like me?
Girl: He never says hi
Girl: You know what fuck it! I'm gonna go over there and say I like his shirt. That should get us into conversation

Girl: I really like your shirt
Archer: Oh thanks!
Girl: hehe.. okay bye


Girl: That's all he could say.. thanks
Girl: He probably thinks I'm ugly
Girl: God, I feel so embarrassed why did I do that



No worries. You'll get used to your new body



Easy... train yourself to pounce on them when they come up and stop expecting to stay open forever



Practice makes perfect



Isn't it ironic

The better your fundies are, the higher the risk of sending girls in auto-rejection. You can either accept and adapt to the drawbacks of being so damn beautiful

Or you can alway make yourself uglier so that you can game just like those schlubby guys



Get out of your head and start escalating

@The Emerald Archer I’d treat Tom’s post like the holy bible going forward.

You’ll see a 100% increase on return in investment, by just going for results, by definition. You need to have a shoot first ask questions later mentality as of now, always go for the close, with chicks that you want. Ideally with new chicks, not social circle.

I realize you’ve been a social circle/work circle guy, I get it, I play around in social circle myself, and the skills will translate well. But I’m also well aware of the risks and wouldn’t do things there I’d do outside of, if you get what i’m saying. It’s not the fastest or most efficient way to get laid on a consistent basis.

-Super Sexy Stud

 

[Derek da man]

Girl: Omg! That's Archer he's such a hunk
Girl: Does my make-up look ok?
Girl: I'm blonde but I heard a rumor that he likes brunettes
Girl: I want him so bad but does he like me?
Girl: He never says hi
Girl: You know what fuck it! I'm gonna go over there and say I like his shirt. That should get us into conversation

Girl: I really like your shirt
Archer: Oh thanks!
Girl: hehe.. okay bye


Girl: That's all he could say.. thanks
Girl: He probably thinks I'm ugly
Girl: God, I feel so embarrassed why did I do that

This is soooo true and exactly how girls really think, they won't tell guys this but this is a typical girl thought pattern. Young girls would say this to friends but older girls would never even admit it, but it is spot on.

 

[Skills]

I going to ramble and give a different take just some bullet points all over the place:

-i went through a crazy look maxing stage similar to op and guess what my results went DOWN......(could be causation correlation)

- in every forum i have been there had been look maxed guys that could not get laid, in mpua forum there was an adonis one that could not find a vagina...

- 90% of the forum are looked max, in my private group out 12 guys, 8 are above average, 1 is pretty much top 1%, (the one giving you advice here @TomInHo )..... I am 1% in my age group as well i amog every 40 plus year old not competition...and even younger guys in the club....

- when you look good or mentally you perceive you look good the main problem is you get entitled and lazy, you want the girl to do more and carry out the seduction... I personally think that is the main problem with me when this happened...

- i would recommend minimalistic styles and even more direct to start with such as gll, 60 yoc... those styles are based on max looks, humbleness and sexual escalation....

^ after you can get into more advance and complex style.... field test..... again i went through a period like this.... forget about your looks you are projecting male fantasies, women don't operate like this.... Looks will give you some ais and will forgive more mistakes nothing more, brainwash yourself to forget about your improved looks for now, again will make you lazy and entitled at wrong times...

 

[FunGuy]

Everyone gave excellent tips. I would also like to add a few things because I was in that exact same situation.

The 2 main problems you have op is firstly that your game seems to lack compliance requests and you also have a bad case of escalation anxiety.

The first problem is easy to fix, all you have to do is get in the habit of making more compliance requests like trying to get the chick to move with you somewhere or ask her out on a date, make an excuse to go to your apartment etc. Escalation anxiety is a bit harder to get over. What I will say is that you shouldn't be looking for escalation windows, instead you should be creating them. The only sign you need to know she is ready to be escalated on is that she agreed to hang out with you 1 on 1. To force escalation windows make sure you are in the right logistical setting, be in very close proximity to her and use a deep slow voice when you speak. If she is maintaining eye contact and isn't moving away from you then she is ready to be escalated on. It takes a while to fully get over escalation anxiety. Slowly desensitize yourself in those situations where you are forcing escalation windows and once your comfortable with that it will be super obvious to you when she is ready and when she is not.

To summarize: add more compliance requests (ask girls out more, and try to move them to different venue, isolate them etc) to your game and practice forcing escalation windows on every girl you hang out with 1 on 1. Skills mentioned 60 yoc, you should try looking up some of his stuff.

How to Use Compliance Tests to Move Fast with Girls

Note from Chase: J.J. is one of our more esteemed forum members, pulling off seduction jujitsu with beautiful women and producing a steady stream of increasingly ballsy (and often quite funny) lay reports. He has an intelligent, laid back style, doesn't mind moving quickly with women or getting...

www.girlschase.com

Btw in what context are you meeting women?

 

[The Emerald Archer]

Thanks for all the feedback fellas! Things are beginning to make more sense.

@TomInHo

I really appreciate that breakdown man. That's exactly the type of stuff I wanted to better understand.

Yeah, I suspected I haven't modified my game to align with my new image. It's like I still see myself as the "old me" despite all the feedback/reactions from people that points otherwise.

Part of me is hesitant to focus too much on attainability tech because there are still some instances where I feel like I need to be more of an asshole. Mainly when it comes to deflecting compliance requests and stopping people from trying to assert dominance/leadership over me, but in a socially savvy way. I can be very dominant, but it's hard for me to toe the line between aggressive and assertive. I find myself tipping too far into aggressive, and that can cause problems at work/social circle.

That's caused me to hesitate on trying to play around with attainability, but it seems like now's the time to start tinkering with that tech.

That's good that you're good at getting people to open up. Means your game is not as bad as you think

Ok sweet! That makes me feel a lot better lol.

This probably gonna sound ridiculous, but to get good at escalating you have to practice escalating.

You're good at deep diving because you practiced it. So you will need to get good at escalation by doing the same regardless how much anxiety you feel about it

Nah, it doesn't sound ridiculous at all. That makes perfect sense ha.

If you don't know how to open, you can use something situational to spark conversation. Something as simple as saying "Crazy Night huh!" can open girls

You can also get 2-3 generic openers that you always default too. Don't obsess about the opener too much. Especially if the girl gave you AIs

Ok, sounds good. I'll stop overthinking the opener and just go with something situational, especially if I get AIs.

Quick tip! If your fundies are that great.... you should imagine every girl wants you

It sounds crazy, but when you have this mindset you will see more openings and believe them to be true

So if you're unsure if it was a window.. escalate anyways

Sure you will be wrong sometimes but you will also be right other times too. And as a result your intuition for reading signals will improve

For sure. that's a healthy mindset. I also like the part you mention about seeing more openings and believing them to be true. I want to get better at being more attuned to stuff like that and it seems like this mindset is a positive step toward that aim.

You're being too hard on yourself.

I get the feeling like you want to fuck women because it's the cool thing to do, rather than actually having the strong desires to ram your dick up some wet pussy

Who the hell cares what your friends think about your ability with girls?

Haha yeah, I tend to do that to myself smh. I just have this competitiveness and ego to want to be the coolest guy in the room and the most dominant one too. And not getting laid contradicts that which is why I can be hard o myself.

But you're right. This is my journey and no one else's. I need to be doing this for myself and to build a better life, not so other people can think I'm cool and badass. Not a healthy frame to have.

Girls are just like that G! When you don't make a move they feel like you are rejecting them.

And the reason why the windows appear shorter when your fundies are great isn't because they expect you to know what you're doing. It's because the girls are more scared of getting rejected themselves

May sound like a mind-fuck but a lot the times they're not even really thinking about you. They are more concerned about how you are making them feel


Let me give you an example of how a girl may be thinking

Girl: Omg! That's Archer he's such a hunk
Girl: Does my make-up look ok?
Girl: I'm blonde but I heard a rumor that he likes brunettes
Girl: I want him so bad but does he like me?
Girl: He never says hi
Girl: You know what fuck it! I'm gonna go over there and say I like his shirt. That should get us into conversation

Girl: I really like your shirt
Archer: Oh thanks!
Girl: hehe.. okay bye


Girl: That's all he could say.. thanks
Girl: He probably thinks I'm ugly
Girl: God, I feel so embarrassed why did I do that

Dude this is exactly what I was talking about! So many things just became crystal clear!

I guess I still see my "old lower-value self" and find it hard to believe that girls could now be thinking this way about me because for so long it felt like I was the one who had so much catching up to do. It's like my brain is just now starting to catch up with my new and improved me.

No wonder why girls are acting reserved around me! I feel kinda bad lol. I don't want them to feel embarrassed, I want them to feel good and like their efforts are being rewarded.

I'll practice pouncing on them so I can stop missing them and start giving these girls a good time.

Isn't it ironic

The better your fundies are, the higher the risk of sending girls in auto-rejection. You can either accept and adapt to the drawbacks of being so damn beautiful

Or you can alway make yourself uglier so that you can game just like those schlubby guys

Ha I'm cool on that. I'd much rather be in my situation than schlubby. And yeah it's ironic as hell!

Thanks for breaking everything down broski. This will be my Bible going forward haha.

@DarkKnight

Idk if I'd call myself a super stud haha. At least I certainly don't feel like one.

The best way I would describe my fundamentals is "upper middle class." Pretty damn good, especially compared to 90-95% of guys, but still not bolted down to the tightest level yet. Of course, this is just my interpretation and I seem to already have trouble seeing myself accurately. Maybe I'm more studly than I give myself credit for

@The Emerald Archer I’d treat Tom’s post like the holy bible going forward.

You’ll see a 100% increase on return in investment, by just going for results, by definition. You need to have a shoot first ask questions later mentality as of now, always go for the close, with chicks that you want. Ideally with new chicks, not social circle.

I realize you’ve been a social circle/work circle guy, I get it, I play around in social circle myself, and the skills will translate well. But I’m also well aware of the risks and wouldn’t do things there I’d do outside of, if you get what i’m saying. It’s not the fastest or most efficient way to get laid on a consistent basis.

-Super Sexy Stud

Yep, will do. I get what you're saying. I need to grab my balls and start meeting new women.

On a positive note, I feel confident enough to start cold approaching now. I see it as something that is possible, so long as I apply myself and work at it. Whereas the thought of cold approaching before felt like this impossible mountain to climb.

Instead, I've been feeling this eagerness and dare I say, excitement, because I'm finally starting to understand my potential and what I bring to the table. It's also increased my confidence exponentially and I think girls/people are picking up on that too, not just my fundamentals/looks

@Skills

I going to ramble and give a different take just some bullet points all over the place:

-i went through a crazy look maxing stage similar to op and guess what my results went DOWN......(could be causation correlation)

- in every forum i have been there had been look maxed guys that could not get laid, in mpua forum there was an adonis one that could not find a vagina...

- 90% of the forum are looked max, in my private group out 12 guys, 8 are above average, 1 is pretty much top 1%, (the one giving you advice here @TomInHo )..... I am 1% in my age group as well i amog every 40 plus year old not competition...and even younger guys in the club....

- when you look good or mentally you perceive you look good the main problem is you get entitled and lazy, you want the girl to do more and carry out the seduction... I personally think that is the main problem with me when this happened...

- i would recommend minimalistic styles and even more direct to start with such as gll, 60 yoc... those styles are based on max looks, humbleness and sexual escalation....

^ after you can get into more advance and complex style.... field test..... again i went through a period like this.... forget about your looks you are projecting male fantasies, women don't operate like this.... Looks will give you some ais and will forgive more mistakes nothing more, brainwash yourself to forget about your improved looks for now, again will make you lazy and entitled at wrong times...

Yes! You hit the nail on the head. That's a huge part of my challenge.

I've become wayyyy more entitled and low-key expecting girls to approach me left and right and invest like crazy. Especially in social contexts. I've failed to internalize that the best 99% of them will do is give me opportunities to talk to them, but that I have to be the one to spark the interaction, not them. Looks like my mental model is flawed here.

Noted on the minimalistic/direct styles.

And yeah you're right. I've even joked with myself recently about how I feel I'm acting like a girl would with her looks: posing, attention-grabbing behavior, etc. to make them chase me hahaha

@FunGuy

Everyone gave excellent tips. I would also like to add a few things because I was in that exact same situation.

The 2 main problems you have op is firstly that your game seems to lack compliance requests and you also have a bad case of escalation anxiety.

The first problem is easy to fix, all you have to do is get in the habit of making more compliance requests like trying to get the chick to move with you somewhere or ask her out on a date, make an excuse to go to your apartment etc. Escalation anxiety is a bit harder to get over. What I will say is that you shouldn't be looking for escalation windows, instead you should be creating them. The only sign you need to know she is ready to be escalated on is that she agreed to hang out with you 1 on 1. To force escalation windows make sure you are in the right logistical setting, be in very close proximity to her and use a deep slow voice when you speak. If she is maintaining eye contact and isn't moving away from you then she is ready to be escalated on. It takes a while to fully get over escalation anxiety. Slowly desensitize yourself in those situations where you are forcing escalation windows and once your comfortable with that it will be super obvious to you when she is ready and when she is not.

To summarize: add more compliance requests (ask girls out more, and try to move them to different venue, isolate them etc) to your game and practice forcing escalation windows on every girl you hang out with 1 on 1. Skills mentioned 60 yoc, you should try looking up some of his stuff.

I ask for compliance, I'm just clumsy about it. My timing is way off, I go for too big compliance too soon without warming them up enough and building up to it.

I just asked the hottest girl out from work a little over 2 months ago after spiking her arousal the day before at work but failed to close that day because I was nervous like you mentioned about escalation anxiety.

Also, there was an interloper at the last second as I was about to make my move. I thought him to be socially awkward and clueless, but was talking with some other girls at work and they mentioned he's creepy in a shady way smh... No mercy from now on.

Anyways, I tried talking to her the next day, and noticed she was cooler, but acknowledged it so I wouldn't look like I can't pick up on shifts in her emotions and got her talking a little, warmed her up some.

Asked for a small piece of compliance (basically for her to show me something on her phone case, which she did to which I then made a comment on it and she smiled), then traded a few more lines of conversation before going for the ask out.

However, I asked her out as the conversation was sizzling out just as break was about to end. I'm still finishing the field report on that one btw.. should have it posted in the next few days.

Also, she's one level above me on the hierarchy at work (basically, an hourly supervisor, not an outright manager) but I'm way older than her (lol).

Here's how the interaction went starting from the ask-out:

Her: You about to head back to xyz station at work​

Me: Yeah.​

Me: I'd like to hang out with you sometime outside of work if you're not totally against the idea (had to play somewhat conservative here, cuz I didn't want to destroy my reputation at work)​

Her: response to this was to laugh then say " I can't hang out with an associate" said with a smug/condescending laugh. I maintained my composure despite feeling a little sting.​

Me: haha why not?​

Her: Because. I can't do that!​

Me: "who's gonna know?"​

Her: Me! "I'll know!"​

Me: "it'll be our little secret." (kinda said this in a game-y type of way)​

Her: Then she laughed at this, but not smugly. Then she got quiet for a few seconds and didn't respond.​

Then I made a joke about how it's just hanging out, the most casual, nonchalant thing there is, and how she was acting like I was proposing marriage. She laughed at that one, but not condescendingly. It was more a girly type of giggle,

After I said that, she kneejerk responded "I'm talking to someone." I smiled warmly, looked up as I turned my head away, then she said "I'm a loyal girl."

Obviously, it was bs and I knew it. I figured she was in auto-rejection now and her turning me down like that was her way of "getting even" with me for her feeling like I rejected her because I spiked arousal the day before, but didn't close (again cuz of our creepy coworker).

Then I said "another time then" as Chase advises in OneDate/TDA when asking girls out in social circles/at work.

Then she was like "yeah if things don't work out blah blah (kinda forgot all of what she said here). To which I said I gotta get back to my station as it was time to get back to work. Then walked away confidently.

So yeah.. not the smoothest, but all things considered, I think I handled myself well. Also, I started falling into the oneitis trap and just wanted to get it over with and get a response so I could be free from that spell. In that regard, I achieved my goal and my confidence/testosterone spiked afterward. So not a total loss...

My thoughts on that ask-out debacle were one of three things:

1. Didn't build up enough compliance from the start and went for the ask-out way too soon and failed to do it on a high note
2. She was in auto-rejection from the arousal spike the day before, where I thought for sure I would make the move then
3. I failed to address her objections and she thought me to be a reputation/flight risk, so knee-jerked the "I'm talking to someone" response

I'll go into more detail in the field report, but that's the gist of where I'm currently at with escalation and compliance. Thanks for the article link btw

And to answer your question, most of my social feedback has been 90% work, 10% miscellaneous. Yeah, I know, I need to start meeting women whom I don't know socially.

 

[Beck Bass]

you get entitled and lazy, you want the girl to do more and carry out the seduction

Dat be true... Also you start analysing hoes too much, "is she good enough for me?". Girls hate to be judged this much, put into a microscope. Even if they like you, they will autoreject easy.

humbleness and sexual escalation

Yeah, just be nice, reaaally nice to girls. Look as open as possible, be nice to everyone... Biggest problem is maybe average girls absolutelly throwing themselves at you and distracting you from the actual hottest/beautiful girls (or making them autoreject)... But this is more of a night game problem (on bars and clubs, she's gonna see the other girls reacting to you)