What is good approach to lay ratio for daygame?

[Bob Z]

Me and @bgwh were discussing in other thread what good meet to lay ratio looks like and both felt that there wasn't much information on what type of results are typical. We hear all sorts of stuff. For me - a beginner focused solely on daygame - i would want to know for daygame (streetgame especially) what is good.

What approach/lay ratio would you consider "respectable"? aka better than pure chance would be for a guy with decent fundamentals
What approach/lay ratio would make you say "this guy is good at picking up girls"?
What approach/lay ratio would you say is good enough for a guy to teach without being a grifter?

and also what is your approach/lay ratio? - if you feel comfortable sharing...

feel free to add any caveats if relevant: nightgame vs daygame - good momentum vs poor momentum - us city vs eu...

Would really help me personally be able to know what type of metrics I'm looking for. Same with other beginners. Thank you.

 

[bgwh]

Actually just to clarify, the question is more about cold approach to lay.

I'm clarifying because for some people the date is the meet. So "meet to lay" means something very different.

 

[Bob Z]

Actually the discussion in that thread was about open to lay ratio. By meet you mean date? That can get quite high. Some people close as much as 95% od girls they meet out on a date.

The question is more about cold approach to lay.

thats what i meant yea - when i say meet i mean approach. is that not the teminology?

UPDATE - just changed wording to specify approach

 

[isildur1]

It’s a vague question because it depends on



Your smv which will vary for everyone reading this post- if you have a male 9 telling a male 3 what their approach to lay ratio is - the male 3 won't be able to replicate it and will require a lot more volume to get the same amount of lays. You can't polish a turd - no coach can , Daygame is a great way of dating a few points out of your league but it can't cover mass inadequacies in your SMV.

The smv of the men around you - i found this was the biggest impacter on my approach to lay ratio- in places with low quality men, or places were there were a lot of men physically weaker than me things were just a lot easier and the amount of work to get a lay / dates was just a load less . Examples where life was easy for me were Brazil, Colombia and China - compare that to my home town London it was a cake walk . London for me - a lot of competition and confident men to compete with from my experience- i actually ended up meeting my girlfriend in Dubai of all places but even there it's a cast system with the majority of men being impoverished Indians, Filipinos, Neplai , Pakistani workers - so competition wise it was actually a lot lower than i initially expected


The culture of the women around you - for example getting laid on the first date in Brazil is 100 times easier than doing so in Ukraine where the women are a lot more conservative and usually require 3-5 dates to close . Therefore someone gaming in Russia/Ukraine is likely to have a lower ratio of approach to lays than someone gaming in Brazil on average . I noticed a huge difference in my approach to lay ratio in London to China but then again the competition was way lower than China and people were a lot more receptive and willing to meet up.

Your vibe on the day

A degree of luck ( approaching a woman who’s just horny at the right time ) you may number close a horny girl at the right time and it may induce positive variance on your results . Though You may also close several conservative women who may not be that up for it on the dates - i would go through some lucky streaks of just closing girls who were keen to meet at mine on the first date but there were times when i'd date 4 conservative frigid chicks on the go who weren't interested in escalated past coffee .

Strength of your wings too (I’ve had higher lay ratios when with a good inspiring wing compared to when I’m on my own)


Until you do 100s of approaches in different cities relying on strangers on the internet to tell you their approach to lay ratio because the majority lie or exaggerate their successes and downplay their failures more often then not . It's also very hard to completely replicate said persons life because everyones smv, environment , status etc. is different on this forum

 

[loolapaluza]

I always wondered,how you guys count?Does it count if you not asked for the number/contact?
For example i started conversation with a girl,but then i realized that conversation goes nowhere.
Does it count?
For me any interaction goes as approach.
I just cant imagine approach more than 3-4 girls a day,especially if you live in a small city.
Sorry for my English.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

I always wondered,how you guys count?Does it count if you not asked for the number/contact?
For example i started conversation with a girl,but then i realized that conversation goes nowhere.
Does it count?
For me any interaction goes as approach.
I just cant imagine approach more than 3-4 girls a day,especially if you live in a small city.
Sorry for my English.

I'd say I count every interaction in which I have the intent to pursue something further.

For example if I approach a girl I like and she doesn't even stop to talk to me I count it. If I just chat the waitress for a bit as I'm ordering a drink I won't count it.

I may also give a compliment to a girl without really wanting anything else at that moment, maybe she is just not very attractive but I do like her style, so I won't count it. On the other hand if I ping a girl, by making an observational comment, but she consciously does not pay attention to me I will count it.

In general I count as approaches at this point just the ones that I put in effort towards intimacy. It just helps me see more clearly what I am trying and what I am getting out of it directly.

All the other interactions are valuable though. I spent a lot of time in the beginning just asking directions and I would count them as approaches to track my progress, but I wouldn't even think of finding an approach to lay ratio back then, since I wasn't even going for a lay but to simply overcome approach anxiety.

And for your specific example, if I started a conversation with a girl I liked, and it eventually went nowhere I would count it. Because it can show you something that went wrong in that conversation. Not saying that you have to vibe with all people or push the connection, but especially in the beginning I feel it's important to note how you are contributing to the conversation going nowhere.

Similarly if you don't ask for a number. Of course you can have a situation where you don't ask because something felt off about the girl and you changed your mind, but a lot of times the not asking can be because of fear. So you can identify a certain issue that affects the eventual lay after the approach has happened.

 

[loolapaluza]

I'd say I count every interaction in which I have the intent to pursue something further.

For example if I approach a girl I like and she doesn't even stop to talk to me I count it. If I just chat the waitress for a bit as I'm ordering a drink I won't count it.

I may also give a compliment to a girl without really wanting anything else at that moment, maybe she is just not very attractive but I do like her style, so I won't count it. On the other hand if I ping a girl, by making an observational comment, but she consciously does not pay attention to me I will count it.

In general I count as approaches at this point just the ones that I put in effort towards intimacy. It just helps me see more clearly what I am trying and what I am getting out of it directly.

All the other interactions are valuable though. I spent a lot of time in the beginning just asking directions and I would count them as approaches to track my progress, but I wouldn't even think of finding an approach to lay ratio back then, since I wasn't even going for a lay but to simply overcome approach anxiety.

Ok,that make sense.Hector somewhere said that out of 100 interactions 3-4 goes somewhere.
For me its looks like :
I ask something basic
Hi!Hows your day going?
Then ask some questions,and girls name.
If she dont ask question/my name, i assume she is not interested and i eject.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Ok,that make sense.Hector somewhere said that out of 100 interactions 3-4 goes somewhere.
For me its looks like :
I ask something basic
Hi!Hows your day going?
Then ask some questions,and girls name.
If she dont ask question/my name, i assume she is not interested and i eject.

Regardless the structure of this, as the conversation can clearly be improved from simply asking questions to making some statements for example, I would say it's good practice to go for a close, meaning phone number, request to meet later or even invite somewhere now.

The way I see it you lose nothing by going for the proposal, since you would have ejected anyway. But in the case that there was something there you did not realise, maybe she was very shy for example, you can have a result!

 

[iceberg slim]

It’s a vague question because it depends on



Your smv which will vary for everyone reading this post- if you have a male 9 telling a male 3 what their approach to lay ratio is - the male 3 won't be able to replicate it and will require a lot more volume to get the same amount of lays. You can't polish a turd - no coach can , Daygame is a great way of dating a few points out of your league but it can't cover mass inadequacies in your SMV.

The smv of the men around you - i found this was the biggest impacter on my approach to lay ratio- in places with low quality men, or places were there were a lot of men physically weaker than me things were just a lot easier and the amount of work to get a lay / dates was just a load less . Examples where life was easy for me were Brazil, Colombia and China - compare that to my home town London it was a cake walk . London for me - a lot of competition and confident men to compete with from my experience- i actually ended up meeting my girlfriend in Dubai of all places but even there it's a cast system with the majority of men being impoverished Indians, Filipinos, Neplai , Pakistani workers - so competition wise it was actually a lot lower than i initially expected


The culture of the women around you - for example getting laid on the first date in Brazil is 100 times easier than doing so in Ukraine where the women are a lot more conservative and usually require 3-5 dates to close . Therefore someone gaming in Russia/Ukraine is likely to have a lower ratio of approach to lays than someone gaming in Brazil on average . I noticed a huge difference in my approach to lay ratio in London to China but then again the competition was way lower than China and people were a lot more receptive and willing to meet up.

Your vibe on the day

A degree of luck ( approaching a woman who’s just horny at the right time ) you may number close a horny girl at the right time and it may induce positive variance on your results . Though You may also close several conservative women who may not be that up for it on the dates - i would go through some lucky streaks of just closing girls who were keen to meet at mine on the first date but there were times when i'd date 4 conservative frigid chicks on the go who weren't interested in escalated past coffee .

Strength of your wings too (I’ve had higher lay ratios when with a good inspiring wing compared to when I’m on my own)


Until you do 100s of approaches in different cities relying on strangers on the internet to tell you their approach to lay ratio because the majority lie or exaggerate their successes and downplay their failures more often then not . It's also very hard to completely replicate said persons life because everyones smv, environment , status etc. is different on this forum

Great assessment! I agree there are tons of variables including luck. I for example had a ridiculous hot streak when I first got into day game last summer, where I did some approaches and got 3 first date lays in a row. I was shocked and thought that I somehow unlocked a super power (which day game is to a degree, but not to the degree I felt at the time). My approach to lay ratio at that point was like 20 to 3. But then my luck subsided and my ratio became far less favorable.

 

[Chase]

As others have noted, it’s so variable as to be mostly meaningless to compare between guys.

It’s most useful for comparing between your own outings, specific places you go, types of approaches you are doing, women you are targeting, etc.

e.g., you may go to a busy shopping street where the women are briskly hurrying along and not in a social mood at all, spam 40 approaches, and not lay any of those girls. Then turn down a quiet side street, make 3 well-targeted approaches, and pick up and lay a girl off that. Maybe you’ll even take numbers from the other two side street girls and lay one of those as well! Can we say your approach-to-lay ratio was 43:2? We could, but it’s not very meaningful. It was 40:0 on the busy street; meanwhile it was 3:2 on the side street. Those split apart statistics are a lot more meaningful.

Once you reach a certain level of experience where you’re able to snipe girls opportunistically, you can be not actively going out to approach much, but have a few girls pop onto your radar over the course of a week, approach only those girls, and get together with some or all of them.

Just in general, the higher volume you are doing in your approaching, the less targeted it will necessarily be, and the more approaches you will end up having to make per lay. But you need a lot of volume at the beginning when you are learning to develop the instincts about which girls are most likely to be receptive to you — these are the instincts that allow you to game more opportunistically later on, so you can start laying girls off many fewer approaches.

==

As far as respectability, I’m most interested in how much time a guy has to put in vs. how quality his lays are. If he goes out for seven hours but only makes 3 approaches and lays a weird ugly girl, vs. he goes out for three hours, approaches 8 women, and picks up a cute & sweet girl, guy #2’s doing better IMO.

Chase

 

[Bob Z]

As others have noted, it’s so variable as to be mostly meaningless to compare between guys.

It’s most useful for comparing between your own outings, specific places you go, types of approaches you are doing, women you are targeting, etc.

e.g., you may go to a busy shopping street where the women are briskly hurrying along and not in a social mood at all, spam 40 approaches, and not lay any of those girls. Then turn down a quiet side street, make 3 well-targeted approaches, and pick up and lay a girl off that. Maybe you’ll even take numbers from the other two side street girls and lay one of those as well! Can we say your approach-to-lay ratio was 43:2? We could, but it’s not very meaningful. It was 40:0 on the busy street; meanwhile it was 3:2 on the side street. Those split apart statistics are a lot more meaningful.

Once you reach a certain level of experience where you’re able to snipe girls opportunistically, you can be not actively going out to approach much, but have a few girls pop onto your radar over the course of a week, approach only those girls, and get together with some or all of them.

Just in general, the higher volume you are doing in your approaching, the less targeted it will necessarily be, and the more approaches you will end up having to make per lay. But you need a lot of volume at the beginning when you are learning to develop the instincts about which girls are most likely to be receptive to you — these are the instincts that allow you to game more opportunistically later on, so you can start laying girls off many fewer approaches.

==

As far as respectability, I’m most interested in how much time a guy has to put in vs. how quality his lays are. If he goes out for seven hours but only makes 3 approaches and lays a weird ugly girl, vs. he goes out for three hours, approaches 8 women, and picks up a cute & sweet girl, guy #2’s doing better IMO.

Chase

Super cool to me to have you reply to one of my posts - really appreciate all your articles and especially you staying active in the community and helping newer guys.

 

[loolapaluza]

Regardless the structure of this, as the conversation can clearly be improved from simply asking questions to making some statements for example, I would say it's good practice to go for a close, meaning phone number, request to meet later or even invite somewhere now.

The way I see it you lose nothing by going for the proposal, since you would have ejected anyway. But in the case that there was something there you did not realise, maybe she was very shy for example, you can have a result!

"Always be closing"
Well i try to get girl #,but in that case is just out of place. Maybe girl is shy,bad at socializing or caught of guard.But:
-You made an approach
-You started conversation
-You asked some basic personal questions\made some statments about place,about her,\made some jokes
-You asked her name (i use this as a test)
-She seats there laughing
-She dont ask you personal questions or show no interest to your persona
-She dont ask your name
-She dont try to re-engage after you pullback
Well for me its obvious,she is not interested and just enjoys your attention.Yeah you can persist and get something out of that.
But does it sound fun to you?You making all the work,its boring and tiresome.So for me,even if she gives you her #,its just a big pain in the ass.

 

[loolapaluza]

Actually this situation happened to me twice last friday night
Girl 1 little chit-chat
-Hi,how your night going?\how is your mood?
(She is in a good mood,came at the bar after work)
We talked about venue,how often she is here.Talked a little about night life in the city.
Asked what she do for a living(she tells where she works)
-I asked her name (in a low-key manner) and made a pause.She tells her name,and then came silence for 20 seconds.
-Ok it was nice to talk to you-i ejected.
Girl 2
I changed venue,more wild place across the street.I was reading the menu and asked nearby girl about how her night was going.
She just pointed her finger in menu- "You should try this".She was a little drunk btw.
We talked about cocktails\night life in city\some random bs.
Asked her name
Same result-she didnt ask mine,no personal questions,no signs of interest she didnt try to re-engage.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

"Always be closing"
Well i try to get girl #,but in that case is just out of place. Maybe girl is shy,bad at socializing or caught of guard.But:
-You made an approach
-You started conversation
-You asked some basic personal questions\made some statments about place,about her,\made some jokes
-You asked her name (i use this as a test)
-She seats there laughing
-She dont ask you personal questions or show no interest to your persona
-She dont ask your name
-She dont try to re-engage after you pullback
Well for me its obvious,she is not interested and just enjoys your attention.Yeah you can persist and get something out of that.
But does it sound fun to you?You making all the work,its boring and tiresome.So for me,even if she gives you her #,its just a big pain in the ass.

One thing I do in daygame a lot lately is ask if they are single pretty quickly to not waste time. I guess you could ask in a venue who she is there with and why and what the plans for the night are. This will at least help you understand her situation and know if it's worth to stick around.

I feel that as long as the girl is not leaving there is some hope. In the beginning since it is your approach you have to carry it a bit, maybe she doesn't find you interesting enough right away, and you have to catch her attention before she starts opening up herself.

-Hi,how your night going?\how is your mood?
(She is in a good mood,came at the bar after work)
We talked about venue,how often she is here.Talked a little about night life in the city.
Asked what she do for a living(she tells where she works)
-I asked her name (in a low-key manner) and made a pause.She tells her name,and then came silence for 20 seconds.
-Ok it was nice to talk to you-i ejected.

I mean the thing is though, that here you ejected simply because of the awkwardness that was created by the pause. From the description of the interaction she doesn't seem so unresponsive. And regarding the name you can just offer yours first and then ask hers and you don't have this problem.

I changed venue,more wild place across the street.I was reading the menu and asked nearby girl about how her night was going.
She just pointed her finger in menu- "You should try this".She was a little drunk btw.
We talked about cocktails\night life in city\some random bs.
Asked her name
Same result-she didnt ask mine,no personal questions,no signs of interest she didnt try to re-engage.

Yeah I've had what you say as well. In my view the issue is that they don't see you as really of value. Maybe your fundamentals are not enough for them. And by doing polite chit chat you don't really showcase much of your personality. You even said it was a wild place and you just talked about random bs, but if you want to be noticed in such a place you have to give something more.

I'm not great at hooking people in nightime myself, but I do feel you need some approach that will manage to take their attention from all the crazy stuff around and focus it on you.