What Is Masculinity?

[Ken]

Hey guys,

I've been hearing the word masculinity get thrown around a lot without a definition of what it is. And I want to get a better understanding of what masculinity is in general. So I wanted to ask: what is masculinity?

 

[ulrich]

Damn, what a deep question.
This is going to get pretty subjective, I guess.

I would say masculinity is the set of virtues that qualify a male as a man.

Historically, being considered a man was not a given… much was expected from men and in order to be considered one, you had to go through a initiation rite to prove your worth.
In modern society, initiation rites survive somehow but they are being overthrown in the name of inclusiveness.

Masculinity (unlike modern femininity) is exclusive.
Men usually won’t consider other males their equals unless they show certain virtues.

While those virtues are not precisely defined and the specifics vary across cultures, I saw one author summarize them as:
- Strenght (physical but also mental)
- Courage (take risks and survive)
- Mastery (excel at your craft)
- Honor (loyalty to your group)

A woman can have all four of these virtues… yet, they are not expected from her.
A man can lack these virtues… and if he does, he will be shunned for it.

Modern times have altered masculinity both objectively and subjectively.

The biggest changes:
- Strenght is no longer required for work nor protection, so while it is still an integral part of masculinity, it is devalued.
- Mastery is now open to women and while many women do become masters at their fields, most top experts tend to be men even in female centric fields.

- Courage is still important, although taking social risks is more important than taking physical risks. This is a valued virtue that is expected from men.

- Honor is pretty tricky because it really is about your loyalty to the group…
What makes you good at being a man doesn’t make you a good man.
You’re a good man only if you’re loyal.
Think of a strong, courageous, masterful man who isn’t your friend and doesn’t share your worldview… at best he is a risk… at worst he is an enemy, and a powerful one.
Honor is then the most valuable virtue a man can have… the loyalty to his group / family / country.

If you think about it, modern media manipulates men to be allies of movements that don’t benefit them… feminism, egalitarianism, open borders… all of this is bad for you as a man… but you gotta be an ally… because you see, they rather have you weak and confused but chained by your loyalty than have you strong and courageous but free.

 

[Zoro]

Uriel has given a pretty good summary.

But like he said, this is a deep topic. One worth investigating for yourself.

Here are abooks that helped me deepen my understanding of masculinity

Way of the Superior Man by David Deida

King, Warrior, Magician, Lover by Robert Moore and Douglas Gillette

I’d also recommend learning a little bit about the concept of yin and yang. Yin is “feminine” and “yang” is masculine. Yin is receptive and chaotic, Yang is order and penetrating. A good translation of the Tao de Ching is a good source to learn about this.

 

[Ken]

Thank you for the advice.

 

[Lantern]

The Art of Manliness website has explored this topic often, they worte several articles series on the question, such as this nine-parter: https://www.artofmanliness.com/character/behavior/the-3-ps-of-manhood-protect/ or this single-shot: https://www.artofmanliness.com/character/advice/what-is-manliness/ or this quick read: https://www.artofmanliness.com/character/manly-lessons/sunday-firesides-manhood-is-struggle/

There's also historical analysis of it etc, explore the site, you can find a lot, the website has been around for like 15 years. They also have a great overview of the King, Warrior, Magician, Lover concept that for my money is as good as the book itself.

 

[Ken]

The Art of Manliness website has explored this topic often, they worte several articles series on the question, such as this nine-parter: https://www.artofmanliness.com/character/behavior/the-3-ps-of-manhood-protect/ or this single-shot: https://www.artofmanliness.com/character/advice/what-is-manliness/ or this quick read: https://www.artofmanliness.com/character/manly-lessons/sunday-firesides-manhood-is-struggle/

There's also historical analysis of it etc, explore the site, you can find a lot, the website has been around for like 15 years. They also have a great overview of the King, Warrior, Magician, Lover concept that for my money is as good as the book itself.

I read their articles about the King, Warrior, Magician, Lover concept. Very informative. I do wish to read the book as well.

@ulrich Why are open borders bad for men? I can understand why feminism is bad for men, and egalitarianism to a certain extent.

 

[ulrich]

@ulrich Why are open borders bad for men? I can understand why feminism is bad for men, and egalitarianism to a certain extent.

Most of the immigrants are men.

So you are expected to accept sexual competitors who don’t share your values entering your field in masse.

I’m not going to say it’s good or bad overall for society… but it’s definitely not in your personal sexual/reproductive interest.

 

[Ken]

Most of the immigrants are men.

So you are expected to accept sexual competitors who don’t share your values entering your field in masse.

I’m not going to say it’s good or bad overall for society… but it’s definitely not in your personal sexual/reproductive interest.

So what about egalitarianism? I understand it to a certain extent, but I would like to understand it more in terms of why it's bad for men.

 

[ulrich]

So what about egalitarianism? I understand it to a certain extent, but I would like to understand it more in terms of why it's bad for men.

Same thing… do you want to treat someone as equal when he hasn’t earned the right to?

Any form of equality is a zero sum game.
The powerful person gives out his power to the less powerful person and acknowledges him as equal.

I guess it really depends on which side of the fence you are standing.
Are you on the less privileged side? Egalitarianism is a wonder.
Are you on the more privileged side? It’s not really on your best interest.

In any case, in the west you are expected to just accept it and not question the fact that everyone is equal regardless of virtue or competence (or lack of).
I just pose the question… is that really on your best interest?

 

[POB]

So what about egalitarianism? I understand it to a certain extent, but I would like to understand it more in terms of why it's bad for men.

It's a social construct created by those in power to tame proeminent men.

 

[Ken]

How do you be free as a man?

 

[Spyce D]

Masculinity (unlike modern femininity) is exclusive.
Men usually won’t consider other males their equals unless they show certain virtues.

This is really true .

 

[rockstar]

Look at the average traits and behaviors of men. Then look at the average among all people. Where they differ is what masculinity is.

Really, who cares? I don't need someone else to tell me what "masculine virtues" I need to live up to or whatever. Personally, I don't find questions like "what does it mean to be a man" meaningful or interesting at all. Who I am is much more than my gender imo.

I don't need other men to "prove their masculinity" to me either. I give everyone basic human politeness and respect (and expect the same in return), and if the person is a good ally and provides value in some way, then I try to get them in my life and give more back. They could be the most flamboyant, feminine, gay man - I can still respect them and be friends with them. I can still work with them if they're competent