What is the mark of a great seducer(PUA) ?

[Spyce D]

So,I was reading @Teevster thread about generating attraction (https://www.skilledseducer.com/thre...on-to-compliance-based-game.22751/post-115754) and was really confused about a few concepts so decided to start a new thread rather than derailing that thread .

I want to know that what make a great seducer ?
Is it number of lays(quantity) or is it about quality or is it about consistency or is it about the ability of seducing women subtly in high competitive (tough) environment or anything else ?

Now , I am curious about this because I have seen guys getting laid in 'easy' countries or with borderline cute girls and racking quantity and start proclaiming themselves as advanced (and even start giving bootcamps) but if you put put them in high end venues with high quality girl who doesn't 'like' them from the get go (but is still polite enough ) they tend to fuck it up after 5 -10 minutes of talking and if you ask them what happened they have excuses ready like she had a bf (and I would think," what the fuck makes you advanced ") . I mean if it was all about getting the girls who liked you from start , why would this PUA community even exist in the first place .

(Note : I understand the value of fundamentals but game is something I lack in)

 

[trashKENNUT]

what the fuck makes you advanced

There will some sentences that offend Girlschase members. Sorry about this.

"Pickup Success" =
Have success anywhere. (Lay counts and creating social circles)

There's 5 types of guys who think they are advanced. but they are not. This is based on what I see on Girlschase.

This is not to offend Girlschase members. But as a lesson for myself.

1)Guy who is in only one social place (the offline guy)
2)Guy who has high lay counts but no social circle game
3)Guy who goes to other countries and places where lay count is easy.
4)Guy who has a knack of getting married women, girlfriends to get intrigued, thus easy lays.
5)Guy who looks like he has everything going. And he can get girls easily or he LOOKS like he can. But just doesn't want to.

Example: Macho Man Randy Savage. He had a limiting belief on women.

Everything is just definition. But if you want the term "success"

- laycounts
- all type of game (social circle, cold approach, online)
- succeed anywhere
- you must impregnate/laid (HAHA) at least 10 professions
- you must be successful in at least 3 countries, doing all of above.

Challenge?

 

[greenleaf]

Hard to answer that question without covering old ground, and ones answer is maybe dependant on where you stand in the 'can attraction be generated' thread. Your view on that question will determine your answer somewhat, I guess.

As you say, quantity probably isn't the answer as to use an extreme example, there's been quite a few blogs i've seen where self-confessed 'incels'/virgins with zero game have moved from the US to South East Asia, and went from zero lays to 50 lays in fairly short order! Are they now an expert 'seducer'?

Quality AND quantity, then? Again, readers of any of my FR's will know that one of my wingmen is a very very handsome dude who is able to bang the hottest girls in the clubs whenever he goes out, despite having only 'normal guy game'. (zero technical game, but he's not weird).
They are just massively attracted to his looks, often open him (he almost never opens), and from there, he just needs to not completely weird them out and escalate. I'd put him up against any pua expert tbh, despite him not knowing anything about nlp or pushpull or 'frames' or qualification/disqualification etc etc. He even fails shit tests. But from what i've seen, i'm confident nobody i've ever spoken too on a pua forum could match him

Even if you break it down into more tangible things, again the answers will change based on ones own personality. I remember reading a book talking about how the best seducers were very humerous and made girls laugh, and they were care-free and unfiltered etc (maybe someone like RSD Jeffy?) but then i'm sure RSDJeffy is the complete opposite of some of the seducers we have on this forum (much more poetic and 'deep' in their verbals, not much humour, concentrating on sexual framing etc etc). The fact that so many apparent experts seem to things so drastically different from each other certainly complicates the issue!

I was gonna answer you question with a list of things like ability to pass shit tests, set sexual frames and all kinds of technical stuff, but I believe one could do all of that and be amazing at it, but he'd still go home alone if she wasn't attracted to him, so I think i'll leave the answer for someone else lol

 

[Chrance]

The ruler for comparison = LC + Quality + met-in-reality

A good player has success where most others who try cannot. It’s like in sports. If you compare yourself with someone else who is getting more lays of higher quality in reality while being in a similar social situation, then he is better than you at pickup. This relative comparison gives you a picture of what success looks like (where the bar of success is set) which is ultimately intuitive.

I’ve always viewed “fundamentals” as having more to do with basic things you need to do to set yourself apart from the average joe, rather than merely looks, vibe and style. If you are behaving and getting the same results as an average joe, than your “fundamentals” are fucked somehow.

In essence, the average joe and a guy who pulls babes regularly - these two guys are who you compare yourself to to gauge your success. How far removed are you from the average joe? How close are you to that guy who pulls babes regularly? There you go, how successful you are has been discovered

Edit:
Just realized I didn’t precisely answer OPs question. Sorry about that. Was thinking “what makes a player successful” when responding

 

[Spyce D]

There will some sentences that offend Girlschase members. Sorry about this.

"Pickup Success" =
Have success anywhere. (Lay counts and creating social circles)

There's 5 types of guys who think they are advanced. but they are not. This is based on what I see on Girlschase.

This is not to offend Girlschase members. But as a lesson for myself.

1)Guy who is in only one social place (the offline guy)
2)Guy who has high lay counts but no social circle game
3)Guy who goes to other countries and places where lay count is easy.
4)Guy who has a knack of getting married women, girlfriends to get intrigued, thus easy lays.
5)Guy who looks like he has everything going. And he can get girls easily or he LOOKS like he can. But just doesn't want to.

Example: Macho Man Randy Savage. He had a limiting belief on women.

Everything is just definition. But if you want the term "success"

- laycounts
- all type of game (social circle, cold approach, online)
- succeed anywhere
- you must impregnate/laid (HAHA) at least 10 professions
- you must be successful in at least 3 countries, doing all of above.

Challenge?

I agree with your five examples .

Didn't knew that about macho man ,always thought of him as someone who would be drowning in pussy.

Challenge accepted,playa.

 

[Spyce D]

Hard to answer that question without covering old ground, and ones answer is maybe dependant on where you stand in the 'can attraction be generated' thread. Your view on that question will determine your answer somewhat, I guess.

As you say, quantity probably isn't the answer as to use an extreme example, there's been quite a few blogs i've seen where self-confessed 'incels'/virgins with zero game have moved from the US to South East Asia, and went from zero lays to 50 lays in fairly short order! Are they now an expert 'seducer'?

Quality AND quantity, then? Again, readers of any of my FR's will know that one of my wingmen is a very very handsome dude who is able to bang the hottest girls in the clubs whenever he goes out, despite having only 'normal guy game'. (zero technical game, but he's not weird).
They are just massively attracted to his looks, often open him (he almost never opens), and from there, he just needs to not completely weird them out and escalate. I'd put him up against any pua expert tbh, despite him not knowing anything about nlp or pushpull or 'frames' or qualification/disqualification etc etc. He even fails shit tests. But from what i've seen, i'm confident nobody i've ever spoken too on a pua forum could match him

Even if you break it down into more tangible things, again the answers will change based on ones own personality. I remember reading a book talking about how the best seducers were very humerous and made girls laugh, and they were care-free and unfiltered etc (maybe someone like RSD Jeffy?) but then i'm sure RSDJeffy is the complete opposite of some of the seducers we have on this forum (much more poetic and 'deep' in their verbals, not much humour, concentrating on sexual framing etc etc). The fact that so many apparent experts seem to things so drastically different from each other certainly complicates the issue!

I was gonna answer you question with a list of things like ability to pass shit tests, set sexual frames and all kinds of technical stuff, but I believe one could do all of that and be amazing at it, but he'd still go home alone if she wasn't attracted to him, so I think i'll leave the answer for someone else lol

Hey man, even I would love to see your friend complete against expert pua lol.

Maybe , it is about personality types and being congruent (IMO) and conveying it in an attractive way that's why we see differences between gc and rsd coaches, puas.

And regarding your last sentence , you and I have already talked about it in private

 

[Spyce D]

The ruler for comparison = LC + Quality + met-in-reality

A good player has success where most others who try cannot. It’s like in sports. If you compare yourself with someone else who is getting more lays of higher quality in reality while being in a similar social situation, then he is better than you at pickup. This relative comparison gives you a picture of what success looks like (where the bar of success is set) which is ultimately intuitive.

I’ve always viewed “fundamentals” as having more to do with basic things you need to do to set yourself apart from the average joe, rather than merely looks, vibe and style. If you are behaving and getting the same results as an average joe, than your “fundamentals” are fucked somehow.

In essence, the average joe and a guy who pulls babes regularly - these two guys are who you compare yourself to to gauge your success. How far removed are you from the average joe? How close are you to that guy who pulls babes regularly? There you go, how successful you are has been discovered

Edit:
Just realized I didn’t precisely answer OPs question. Sorry about that. Was thinking “what makes a player successful” when responding

Really likes your sports example , brother . Cool to see someone with a similar mindset.

 

[trashKENNUT]

Eh, I'm joking about the challenge part.

Do you know how difficult that is?

Because you need skills, luck and 5k per month at least.

Chase and the other tribal elders have gone to at least 3 countries and above. At least I noted of. And even then, it is so so difficult.

Take my pointers as guidelines. It's just a guideline.
You must make your own definition of success.

i have seen guys drown in pussy with just social circle game and they are happy with that.

So it's up to the individual

 

[Spyce D]

Eh, I'm joking about the challenge part.

Do you know how difficult that is?

Because you need skills, luck and 5k per month at least.

Chase and the other tribal elders have gone to at least 3 countries and above. At least I noted of. And even then, it is so so difficult.

Take my pointers as guidelines. It's just a guideline.
You must make your own definition of success.

i have seen guys drown in pussy with just social circle game and they are happy with that.

So it's up to the individual

We'll see.

 

[trashKENNUT]

By the way, Long Term Relationships is also a skill. At least 1 year.

Managing narcissistic chicks, Asian chicks who are too protective, is also a skill.

You can add to that.

 

[readjusting]

For me, the best seducer is this:
- Can get any girl, anywhere, anytime

 

[Velasco]

I mean if it was all about getting the girls who liked you from start , why would this PUA community even exist in the first place .

This and "don't fuck it up/just make it happen" are the biggest issue I see that stops guys from getting results.

1) Inexperienced guys think that if a girl likes you from the start = game over. you can just say whatever you want and you'll pull her home (at an more experienced level this is actually true (most of the time your intuition will simply not allow you to 'fuck it up'). but when your a beginner/less than 50 lays (even experienced dating coaches) is where you can fuck it up, because you didn't game her properly).

2) Inexperienced guys think:
Girls that like you from the start = ugly/average girls.
Girls that don't like you from the start = hot girls.

So in their mind its supposed to be difficult to lay hot girls. What you'll realize is that once you've fixed your fundamentals, and gotten a little more experience, you will begin to attract more hot girls that like you from the start.

and then we have the issue of "game" being synonymous with "don't fuck it up" bro - which makes it seem like getting laid isn't difficult (and inexperienced guys WANT it to be difficult) because afterall...all you did was "not fuck it up".

But the issue we have here is that, both girls that are 1) very into you from the start, and 2) girls that are receptive to your looks (both greens) get lumped together. Whereas in one situation you didn't need to "set sexual frames", "DHV", "Qualify her" to get laid, while in the other scenario you did. So these are both viewed as "not fucking it up" bro, just make it happen" despite there in fact was work being done to get laid.

Here I would say would be an example of the first category

I Approached this girl immediately after leaving a set of two girls (which I’m sure she noticed because she was standing nearby). She was instantly receptive (looked bored at first). Then I noticed her drink was almost empty so I took it from her hand and finished it and said lets get a drink to isolate her from her friends. Took her by the hand to the bar. Her body language then got all loose/relaxed. I explained to my wingmen later, that I think it was because she realized she was in the presence of a very masculine dude as opposed to her day-to-day interactions with soyboys, that she felt it was safe to just relax around me and embrace her feminine essence. Ehh who knows lol. My hand is on the small of her back. She asked me where I live (ioi). I didn’t ask for her name or job because I don’t care. She paid for her drink, I got a glass of water. Danced a little more. Then I brought her back to her friends. She started talking to them. I just leaned back drinking my water. Then she came back to me “want to get out of here soon?” I was like damn this girl is horny. The reason I brought her back to her friends was because I wanted to befriend them (that’s good game), but it looks like she just handled all the work for me (because she was horny). Without skipping a beat I said “yeah lets go” escorted her out. Take a taxi. Banged her.

and here the second (2nd LR)

UMP Verbal Game Structure LRs

The two reports I'm about to share are recent LRs posted on the UMP mastermind by Alex Lindberg. On @pinpin's recent thread, I shared his open-to-close verbal game structure. So here, I wanted to provide some examples to go along with the basic structure for inspiration. Alex himself, is a big...

www.skilledseducer.com

Both greens (girls liked us from the start), but one clearly used 'game' to lay his girl than the other.

And then we have the otherr view - a view held by a minority (but it was not always like that!) which is the old school view - namely that one can generate attraction, or even create it, and game is not just all about "making it happen", but also generating the (pre-)conditions that makes it happen - i.e. making a girl who is not attracted to you, actually be willing to have sex with you. This view puts a lot more faith in outer game and pick up techniques. We believe in the game.

Seriously, if you guys want to achieve results, stop wasting energy trying to develop some all encompassing attraction theory and work on figuring out how you can create those conditions where the REDs become GREENs.

Really depends on which "old school" (teev and razorjack are old schoolers) view you want to take.

 

[BigPapa]

@Velasco at the end of the day , the great seducers from my point of view are the ones who are relaxed around women , no matter how hot she is .

This is the reason why gay guys are all the time surrounded by a lot of girls , that most of the time are also hot .

In terms of the conversion , even the best seducers have quite a low % conversion rate ( total sex / total number of approaches ) , so the myth that you can have any girl any time is super utopic . Usually we just see the tip of the iceberg , as no one really talks that much about their failures .

Sure you can improve your conversion rate by better screening who is opened to you , but this usually a small fraction from the total women . Of course , the higher the value the best it is to increase the % of women interested in you from the get go , but then you face a different paradigm which is work - life balance ( basically your energy level )

The truth is that the seduction process can be fucked up by so many reasons that are outside of your control , but what you can control is how you respond to to them. Basically this is what people here refer to as being outcome independent