What's the value of a phone number?

[Estate]

Hey guys,
Something thats on my mind as I progress here...

I read over one of Chase's older articles on getting the girl. One thing he points out is that attraction sort of "is" or "isn't"... at least attraction can be created by getting your fundamentals down and other things so the girl would already be open to you before even starting talking. The old school line of thought being that you can talk your way into attraction.
The more I progress I begin to see this more... once you understand the fundamentals, the sometimes mysterious "IT factor" of why a girl is attracted instantly while another is not begins to make so much more sense. You can just talk and talk to some girls an use every tactic and routine but it really doesn't matter if she just doesn't have some sort of instinctive attraction to you... and I've found this difficult at times to understand before now.

Old school tells us to talk and talk at the girl and display Higher value until she is attracted, but sometimes but girl is just not into it, you can bust your ass trying but the reality being... is it even worth it? No! Move on to another girl who IS attracted and worth the time. Traditional PUA seems to give guys the idea that they can attract any girl with routines and if you can't you are a failure... but this just can't really be true. If a not very attractive woman were to spit so much game at us... would we be attracted? Not really... I mean, it helps but that base physical attraction is just not there.

So the point of all this...
When I read and listen to companies talk about their bootcamps and success rates they talk about 100% success rates, etc...
Mainly that means they keep plowing with students until the student gets a number and BAM... 100% SUCCESS RATE!
But is that really success? I feel like it's not at all.

The more I learn, the more I see that plowing through set after set, you can wrack up numbers pretty easily... approach 5 ransom girls and go for the number within a minute or two, chances are you'll get a few. But it's unlikely they'll ever respond to you. Why would they? They don't know you.

Yet, if you actually spot that girl who is open to your advances... do as Chases says, just move fast. Don't waste time on the "attraction routines"... close her... and by close her I mean... kiss her, get her out of there, take her home, but spend time with her that makes her keep thinking about you. I just feel like going to bars and wracking up numbers is so easy but you're actual turnover rate is very low. If you got a number at 10pm then skipped on to the next bar to get more... she'll be out until 2am, she'll meet 10 more guys and forget you... but meet her at 11... spend an hour or so totally enthralling her then get her out of there... she'll never forget the night you spent together.
So really, you got only 1 "close" but it actually meant something. But look for that girl... don't waste time on empty numbers or just getting a number then bailing to go get more. Find a girl who's open to you, move quickly and give her a night to remember.

I'm just beginning to feel like the whole process of going for numbers doesn't mean a lot if the process is only to go get numbers. It won't translate into much, you are still on the chase... I found this hard to understand before... don't you HAVE to chase her? But instead of looking for numbers after numbers, if you spend the time with a girl to make HER begin to chase you once she begins to see your value... you'll get so much further.

That's just some thoughts, feel free to add to or discuss.

 

[PinotNoir]

Yes, completely agree, the # should never be the ultimate goal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr54QYJPSsY).

But, for beginners (like myself), it's something tangible to initially strive for. However, there are 2 important points that I have gotten from Chase:

• Get the number on a high point (usually in the middle of the conversation). Keep talking after you get the #! This takes her out of auto-pilot, but also, she's already complying. If you mess up and wait until the end of the conversation, you can still use her "yes" as an advantage to start using a "yes"-ladder. "You know I got your number, but I enjoy humans better than text; you're enjoying my company, right? -- Yes --" and just keep going until you move her with you to somewhere else.
• The # is just one goal in a tier of goals. (1) Find girl you like. (2) Indirectly get her to notice you. (3) Initiate conversation in an interesting way (don't be like every other guy). (4) Light banter and flirting that frame her as chasing. (4) Deep-dive; get to know her; don't be a showboat. (5) Get # on a high point in the conversation (both laughing or both longingly looking at each other after some common interest). (6) Continue conversation and get her to move with you. etc.

I wonder if there is something I'm missing? But, anyway, these 2 points have helped me greatly, better than any advice such as the typical: "be yourself; make her laugh; get her number; call after 3 days."

 

[Light]

You're absolutely right.

But majority of the guys out there struggle to even get numbers, and without it, you can't go anywhere either to be honest.

You have a to start somewhere, you need a form of contact and an opportunity for interaction.

So numbers are not absolute success, but it does count towards it. The more numbers you get, the more practice you get, and the more natural you become. It only makes you a better person.

But yes, its how you follow through that matters.

 

[trashKENNUT]

I'm just beginning to feel like the whole process of going for numbers doesn't mean a lot if the process is only to go get numbers. It won't translate into much, you are still on the chase... I found this hard to understand before... don't you HAVE to chase her? But instead of looking for numbers after numbers, if you spend the time with a girl to make HER begin to chase you once she begins to see your value... you'll get so much further.

I think that everyone including myself, Most of the guys whom i know are great at flaunting seduction, the Jester, they tend to make this a lot than it really is.I feel that numbers are stage, just as getting to know her is another stage.

But at the end of the day, you need to know why you there for. Sometimes it takes awhile to know you doing things to sabotage yourself.

Zac