What's new

When meditating is no good for you

Will_V

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
2,026
Recently I went through a bit of a low point in my life, mostly unrelated to women (though women of course are a litmus test of the quality of one’s inner world, so it is always affected). During this time I started meditating a little more than usual, and paying more attention to my ability to manage my internal state. I had the opportunity to learn a bit more about meditation, in particular why it sometimes works against you.

For anyone who has tried meditation on a regular basis, you will probably find that it can have the side effect of leaving you with low energy. This makes sense when you think about it: the problem that meditation solves (or tries to solve) is the problem of having uncontrolled emotional energy sloshing around inside your psyche. Regardless of whether this energy is positive or negative, the fact that it is uncontrolled means that it produces unpredictable results in terms of everything associated with action, including drive, motivation, satisfaction, etc. It makes it very difficult to maintain this energy and consistently and efficiently direct it toward anything useful. If the energy is negative, it goes without saying that it damages and inhibits everything useful.

What meditation does is use the body to control the mind – by becoming immobile, and bringing the muscles and posture to a state of rest, and breathing deeply and regularly, the mind gradually quiets down, leaving you with a sense of tranquility and stability even if the emotion is not fully transformed. The emotional energy loses its ability to express and rebirth itself in the movements of the body, and so gradually dissipates. This leaves you calm and able to reassess your perspective in a much more positive and constructive manner.

But does it always do this, or does it sometimes inhibit you by tranquilizing your capability to respond to the requirements of your situation and life in general? Let's look at some problems with it, and some of the essential things that it does not cooperate with.

It’s very hard to be persuasive with low affect

When it comes to influencing and persuading other people, emotions are king. This is because emotions are contagious. If you do not feel them, chances are the other person won’t either, and when you do feel them, the other person subconsciously and powerfully reacts – positively in the case of positive emotions, and negatively in the case of negative emotions.

In seduction, lack of emotion is probably the quickest way to kill an interaction. It makes every word and action crude and awkward. For those guys with significant inhibitions, they will often find themselves unable to maintain emotional control when approaching women – either they become highly emotional, which makes the woman feel overwhelmed and anxious and repels them, or they become suddenly wooden and dead, unable to express anything, which leaves a woman cold. It is actually better to be the former – sometimes girls will throw you a line if you are nervous and make a mess of things, and you may be able to bring things under control over time, and though it's ultimately unlikely to pan out, it can end in a positive experience. But for the latter there is no chance of anything good – at best she will simply disengage, at worst she will panic and run. Because without emotion there is nothing there for her, nothing for her to vibe with, nothing for her to stimulate herself with, nothing for her to trust. There is simply the shadow of someone there, but nothing of the reality of their spirit. Is it absent or merely hidden? Neither answer is good for her.

When meditating excessively, or when meditating in a situation where the mind is primarily filled with negative emotional energy, the net result is that most of the energy leaves the body before the session is complete or the mind is brought into a state of equilibrium. This results in a state of low affect, where the mind is tranquil but rather numb to everything, and only with difficulty mounts some kind of engagement with its environment. If you try to approach in this state, you may get some of the worst kind of rejections – not because girls are mean, but because you have left them with no clear indication of your state of mind or intentions while putting them on the spot. Girls, who are emotional creatures, trust and engage with emotion more than anything, and the absence of it is something alien and deeply unsettling to them.

Action vindicates itself

Life does not always provide clear directions, indeed it is very difficult to tell even over the span of one’s life which actions were good or bad, useful or not, necessary or superfluous. Some people profess to know the answers, but they have merely chosen a narrative, and the more certain they are the less experienced they are likely to be with the reality of living that narrative out against any level of opposition.

Nietzche said that “Happiness is the feeling that power increases, that resistance is overcome”. Resistance is overcome through action. If action is taken that overcomes resistance to that which one desires, what else could be more satisfying? I have found this to be one of the most important truths of life. Action consolidates everything – the emotions, the body, the spirit – rendering many unanswered questions irrelevant, providing deep and lasting satisfaction without requiring certainty of anything.

Sex is one of the most dominant and powerful actions, both physically and psychologically, that you can take. Its entire nature is primordial – the drive to conquer, to penetrate, to dominate, and ultimately, to expand oneself through reproduction. Do any of these drives have clear and unarguable rationalizations? As I like to say, there are two things that can never be explained to a man: why he should fuck women, and why he should fight his enemies. He either simply wants to do it or he doesn’t. Life does not provide any clear explanation for the relative benefit of either choice, nor does it guarantee him any future knowledge of whether he was right or wrong. It is simply a drive that preexists reality itself – and perhaps because of this is what gave birth to it.

Nowhere does a man’s actions vindicate themselves more than in the female mind. In terms of the psychic components of sex (at least, if not throughout the rest of life), men fundamentally act upon reality, and women are acted upon. This is why women do not approach men, nor do they precipitate any action or escalation of the seduction, physical or psychological. First comes the action by the man, and this resolves itself one way or the other in the mind of the woman, such that she chooses to accept or reject it. Thus the man acts first. But does he know if his action has any certainty of being accepted or not? Does he know whether this woman belongs sexually to him, or to someone else? How does he know if it is acceptable for him to go up to a woman he does not know and presume to end up having her for himself? No, he does not know. Nor can he know beforehand. Because his action spawns its own vindication, its own kingdom in which it rules according to its own truth. A truth to which the woman submits on faith, if she so desires.

The problem with meditation in this regard is that it can dull the primitive drives and motivations and prime the mind to become too much of an observer of itself. This is useful to an extent – to be able to observe yourself gives you power to understand and optimize your internal and external reality. But it cannot go all the way – the observer who cannot determine what it is seeing becomes stuck and paralyzed, unable to come to a conclusion, and loses the sense of primacy of action. And because the most fundamental drives – which are far closer to the surface of reality than we usually are aware – are not determinable, not evaluable, if we become too absorbed in trying to observe them, we unwittingly frustrate ourselves and become separated from them to the point where we lose our connection with the sap of life, and end up listless and disoriented.

Loss of self

It is one of the fundamental truths of life that a person knows themselves partly or mostly through their own actions. This is because the conscious mind is not the real person, it is merely a layer that is more or less useful for the quality of the outcome of the expressions of the entirety of the self. I believe that the role of the conscious mind is that of the teacher and manager, to manage and optimize the training and output of the rest of the self. But the teacher who tries to replace its subject with itself is the worst and most destructive of all teachers, it kills the independent spirit, creativity, and raw potential of its subject. Unfortunately, this is what the consciousness egoistically is compelled to do if left to its own devices.

What does this result in? A loss of the true self, and a full identification with the persona – that is, the mask that the person wears as the ideal self, which is typically one of static elegance but completely and utterly incapable of operating effectively in reality.

You can see this at work in those people who identify fully with their conscious mind and strive to deny the instincts and impulses of the deeper psyche. They fortify themselves with and pleasure themselves in ‘self-evident’ logical truths, immersing themselves in the realm of thinking and observing (which is the domain of the conscious) to uncover more of the same, while completely disregarding their effectiveness and power at actually influencing the world around them. Other people tend to enjoy having them around, enjoying the music of their words of ‘truth’, but are rarely moved or compelled by them in any way. Because fundamentally, they know that the person is outside the reality of action and consequence, and therefore inconsequential themselves.

Meditation puts the conscious mind on the throne and disconnects the power to everything else. When things are out of control, this is all well and good – the manager or teacher must be able to regain control at necessary moments. But its job is not then to leave the rest of the mind subdued permanently, but instead to rearrange it and stimulate it in order to ensure that its expression is efficient and useful again, and that it is doing the right actions, and receiving the right level of feedback to its actions, in order to learn, grow, and adapt optimally.

This is why meditation is to the emotions what sleep is to the body – it is very necessary, but should not go for any more than necessary, and once over, the emotions should be immediately lifted up and exercised in order to be strong and useful.

Loss of momentum and lack of intent

Life contains substantial opposition in a variety of forms, overcoming which will absorb some amount of energy. As much as we would like to be able to act spontaneously according to some conscious choice, the psyche requires momentum in order to fully realize its capabilities. This goes back to the fundamental drives – the more these are given expression through decisive and effective action, the more momentum they acquire, becoming able to overcome greater and greater opposition that may appear.

This is true throughout all aspects of life, and is a fundamental part of seduction. Unrealized action – action that has not occurred yet, but shown itself to be potential or likely – is particularly at risk of being inhibited in some way, whether by the man’s own mind, people around him, or a woman he is seducing. This is because all action of any significance results in change, and change comes with all kinds of uncertainties and risks. It also captures attention, and creates excitement. But all this attention and excitement veers toward opposition if the energy behind the potential action is weak. Because what basis does this action have for exercising itself upon reality if it can be so easily opposed? Whatever opposing action can be brought to bear against it, in this case, vindicates itself by its relative strength.

This is why men who approach without conviction are denied, why men who cannot bring themselves to express their desires are shut down, why women shit-test when a man shows brittleness or weakness. Women cannot submit to a reality that appears easy to oppose, because that means that it is likely to be overwhelmed by some other reality which she did not submit to in the first place, putting her at risk.

One of the characteristics of a seduction that a woman submits most readily to is one with intent on the part of the man. Because with the strength of his intent he provides something for her to rely on in her submissive uncertainty, and in showing that he will not easily be obstructed from carrying it out, she can trust that if she submits to it, it will happen, regardless of any interference which could produce unpredictable outcomes.

But what is intent, how does one have it, or show it? The easiest way to have intent in a certain direction is to have momentum in it, to have strung together decisive actions over a long period of time which move you toward it, building up a store of emotional energy connected to those actions which spawn further ones with a minimum of hesitation or inhibition. Because the mind does not fully believe that which it has not experienced, regardless of how strongly you try to delude yourself, and if you try to show intent without any momentum, the expressions reek of uncertainty and confusion.

The problem with meditation is that it can dump all the emotional energy of positive momentum along with any negative elements, leaving the mind wide open for fear, anxiety, and disorientation to fill it. Thus, though a man may move to approach a woman, he does so lacking real intent, and because of this, being easily deflected by any obstacle he encounters.

In this case, I believe that instead of meditating, it is better to immerse oneself in the reality of the moment you are in, guiding your mind toward the drives and emotions that spring from your positive momentum and expanding them, moving your body to their rhythm to make them grow. Otherwise, like a ball of foam, you will bounce off any obstacle, real or imagined, before it has even done anything to stop you.

So when is meditation good for you?

Meditation is like a drug, it subdues an emotional mind that is out of control and which, left to its own devices, is likely to end up damaging its own effectiveness and potential. But once this happens, the drug is of no further use in rebuilding the mind, in fact it keeps it in a state of passivity. Therefore it must be stopped after the mind is brought under control, and attention directed toward simple strategy, action, and the expansion of positive emotion.

A small amount of meditation can be useful during action to bring things under control, but only enough to reengage the attention with reality and refocus on the positive emotions again. Any more than that risks disengaging the mind from its own drives, dumping excessive energy, and stalling momentum to the point where everything has to start from scratch.

I also believe meditation, like sleep, fasting, or any other 'reset', is good to do regularly whenever the mind and body is not required for immediate and decisive action. Back when I did kickboxing, I did a fight in ketosis (my coach did not know) and I experienced the feeling of being incredibly calm and incredibly ineffective at the same time. This is the same feeling I get when I meditate too much or at the wrong time. Sometimes your mind and body need to be like a runaway train - powerful, unstoppable, focused intently, and moving with overwhelming force - to have the effect and impact you wish to have upon the world. You can subdue it and tinker with it later on.

After meditating, one should spend at least as much time stimulating and exercising the primitive emotions through some kind of physical action, bringing the mind and body to a state of calm but intentful readiness.
 

Energy

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Aug 17, 2019
Messages
42
I searched for meditation on the forum and I end up reading this post. I feel the exact same.

The author Nassim Taleb wrote (I cannot remember where, sorry!) that he is not trying to live like a robot because he needs his emotions as a source of energy. I always felt the same way.

As you said, the problems is knowing when should you be calm and when should you be energetic.

This part really stuck with me:

One of the characteristics of a seduction that a woman submits most readily to is one with intent on the part of the man. Because with the strength of his intent he provides something for her to rely on in her submissive uncertainty, and in showing that he will not easily be obstructed from carrying it out, she can trust that if she submits to it, it will happen, regardless of any interference which could produce unpredictable outcomes.

But what is intent, how does one have it, or show it? The easiest way to have intent in a certain direction is to have momentum in it, to have strung together decisive actions over a long period of time which move you toward it, building up a store of emotional energy connected to those actions which spawn further ones with a minimum of hesitation or inhibition. Because the mind does not fully believe that which it has not experienced, regardless of how strongly you try to delude yourself, and if you try to show intent without any momentum, the expressions reek of uncertainty and confusion.

Had I read it on other period of my life, it would seems like a useless self-help gibberish; but now it clicks!
 

Vibe

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Nov 16, 2024
Messages
27
Apathy is the worst thing you can feel because it kills action. Emotion comes from the Latin e-movere, meaning "To move". Even being sad or angry is better than being apathetic.
 

empath

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 16, 2024
Messages
483
These days when I feel sad or any negative emotion. I try to write a poem. They are deep and beautiful. I would rather not want to waste my emotions.


I think any creative action is equvivalent to a meditation.


Also, I have felt too much introspection.

Reduces activity levels.

Makes reaction slow.
 

West_Indian_Archie

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Feb 6, 2020
Messages
410
The meditation forums on reddit show a lot of the downside, because it's a lot of people talking about it (and the internet boosts negative signals, generally speaking). I was unaware that actively not thinking could be so harmful. But these folks were talking years of meditation, and prolonged periods of the practice, on top of retreats etc. Apparently too much meditation messes with your sleep cycle.

For myself, I try not to do more than 15-20 minutes. I'm just trying to kill some of the chatter, and slow down and focus.

In terms of the practical aspects of pick up - meditation can help calm some of the jitters and smooth out the body language if a guy is really in a fight/fright scenario.

The same effect can be had with
  • Lots more socializing
  • Exercising
  • Good Sleep
 

Will_V

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
2,026
I searched for meditation on the forum and I end up reading this post. I feel the exact same.

The author Nassim Taleb wrote (I cannot remember where, sorry!) that he is not trying to live like a robot because he needs his emotions as a source of energy. I always felt the same way.

As you said, the problems is knowing when should you be calm and when should you be energetic.

This part really stuck with me:



Had I read it on other period of my life, it would seems like a useless self-help gibberish; but now it clicks!

Glad you enjoyed it!

It's a difficult topic to really get to the bottom of - the whole concept of what constitutes the most useful level of emotionality. This whole post comes out of my attempts to understand why sometimes I feel completely unrelaxed (even sometimes in a 'bad' mood) expecting to get shut down and yet I'm very effective with girls, and other times I feel very calm and relaxed and pleasant, but all my effects seem to be powered down and nothing takes off. And of course, there are times I feel plenty of emotion and I don't get good results.

There are clearly people who are too emotional, whose emotions (even the 'good' emotions) get in the way of taking advantage of opportunities around them.

Being emotionless on the other hand not only seems like an empty experience, but also has some interesting negative consequences. For example, according to neuroscience, the ability to make a decision of any kind rests on emotional impulse - people who are unable to utilize emotions when asked to make a choice simply cannot complete that choice at all, regardless of how much logic they are able to apply to it. So emotions are core to decisiveness and decision-making in general, and no doubt to the realization of all the drives and motivations we have, so approaching a girl without access to emotions is going to be a very ineffective experience.

In my experience, to put it somewhat crudely, the best level of emotion to feel in competitive/dynamic situations, including approaching, is where it feels like a restlessness, an internal swelling of energy in your gut, but without any concrete attachment to specific thoughts or 'high-level' emotions in your head. When your head is clear, your attention is fully under control, your thoughts are not sporadic, yet in your gut you feel a sort of rumbling earthquake of energy building in your belly, that's when your mind and body are most ready to apply themselves to action, that's when you can move with energy but without anxiety, that's when your mind can be totally focused and present, and yet your body is ready to move and express, and the two work together most effectively.

I try to meditate until I reach that point but not more. Once I feel my head is calm and clear, I don't try to dump any more energy out of my body, or eventually I will simply feel passive and lethargic, despite being very calm and at peace.

Related to what @Vibe said, there's also this concept of thumosthumos

That's a very cool link, I hadn't read about thumos before. Gonna dig deep into that one.

These days when I feel sad or any negative emotion. I try to write a poem. They are deep and beautiful. I would rather not want to waste my emotions.


I think any creative action is equvivalent to a meditation.


Also, I have felt too much introspection.

Reduces activity levels.

Makes reaction slow.

I'll usually grab my guitar when I'm feeling sad. I think creativity can be a good way to let emotion out - but I also believe that when the thing we create becomes the focus, it can take over and dominate the frame, and so we become attached to it and invested in expressing ourselves through it. This is good if you are an artist, but not so good (in my humble opinion) if you are trying to be the most immediately effective and present individual you can be.

The meditation forums on reddit show a lot of the downside, because it's a lot of people talking about it (and the internet boosts negative signals, generally speaking). I was unaware that actively not thinking could be so harmful. But these folks were talking years of meditation, and prolonged periods of the practice, on top of retreats etc. Apparently too much meditation messes with your sleep cycle.

For myself, I try not to do more than 15-20 minutes. I'm just trying to kill some of the chatter, and slow down and focus.

Yeah, for me it's usually only 5 minutes here and there.

I don't know much about the effects of lots and lots of meditation (e.g. hours a day) as I've never done that, but I find that even 20 minutes or half an hour can be too much for me when I just want to be calm and ready to approach or handle a dynamic situation. But these days I'm a lot better at instinctively moving to the right headspace when I need to, compared to how I was before, so maybe I don't need as much now.

The same effect can be had with
  • Lots more socializing
  • Exercising
  • Good Sleep

Definitely these things help buffer the mind against all sorts of instability.
 

Rye

Rookie
Rookie
Joined
Dec 12, 2023
Messages
5
Hey Will, appreciate the insights about this topic!

I've personally experienced the detachment to a point where I'll notice myself saying things but there's no emotional impact to them. Your post helped clarify a lot of things for me and what I need to focus on

That being said, I've delved into meditation, doing 1 hour sessions a day. I've done a Vipassana retreat; a year ago, 10 hours a day of meditation in 1 hour increments. There was a video I've seen that described that 20 minutes of meditation was the sweet spot, and anything over 45 minutes is where you get into numbing mode - where you don't feel anything at all.

Now, I also follow a Youtuber named Frank Yang, and he had claimed to be enlightened. He says that to get the effects of meditation to unlock further states of consciousness, you need to do it in at least 45 minute sessions. And he has a whole program dedicated to reaching enlightenment with different types of meditation

Now the question I have is, would this "emotional numbing" be good for something? Perhaps reprogramming the brain from a clean slate? Or is constant practice just making you into a passive individual with no emotions?

Another question; I struggle with emotional numbing myself; what do you think would be the best way to deal with it?
 

Will_V

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
2,026
Hey Will, appreciate the insights about this topic!

Glad you enjoyed it!

I've personally experienced the detachment to a point where I'll notice myself saying things but there's no emotional impact to them. Your post helped clarify a lot of things for me and what I need to focus on

Yeah, that's a good way of putting it - words and actions lose impact.

That being said, I've delved into meditation, doing 1 hour sessions a day. I've done a Vipassana retreat; a year ago, 10 hours a day of meditation in 1 hour increments. There was a video I've seen that described that 20 minutes of meditation was the sweet spot, and anything over 45 minutes is where you get into numbing mode - where you don't feel anything at all.

Interesting, was that your experience - that over 45 minutes you start to feel numb?

Now, I also follow a Youtuber named Frank Yang, and he had claimed to be enlightened. He says that to get the effects of meditation to unlock further states of consciousness, you need to do it in at least 45 minute sessions. And he has a whole program dedicated to reaching enlightenment with different types of meditation

I've never meditated for more than half an hour or so, and typically much less than that. So I can't really say whether longer meditations would help you reach enlightenment or not.

Looking at it from a more general perspective, there's no animal in the animal kingdom that needs to meditate long periods of time to be effective, nor do the majority of the most effective people in any domain (whether it's athletes, fighters, leaders, business owners, etc) meditate at all.

I have noticed anecdotally that many of the best seducers meditate at least a bit - and I think it is because while seduction is not a 'high performance' activity, your signal to noise ratio (especially in terms of more subtle signals) needs to be very high to be effective, and removing inhibition in particular, as well as anxiety and negative tension, is key to that. Being calm, present, and uninhibited in a busy public arena is one of the best ways to stand out positively - the way I like to think of it, it is one of the most socially acceptable forms of eccentricity.

That said, seduction is very much about creating excitement, about emotional contagion that passes from you to her (or at least where you are the conduit for that emotion, as in the case of deep diving), leading her through currents of sexual energy with your tone, your touch, your body language, etc. It's very hard to do any of that when you are too passive, when she doesn't feel things looking into your eyes.

In a way, as I see it, managing your emotions during seduction is a process of expanding the amount of energy you can contain within you, without it creating anxiety. Anxiety is, in effect, an inhibited impulse, and unmanaged energy creates impulses of all kinds that we struggle to control. The key is to hold your emotional energy at the ready, and infuse it into your words and actions, without it spitting out in uncontrolled ways or creating internal conflict as you fight to control it. That is where I believe meditation comes in as a tool - it clears your head and gives you control of your attention, which puts your energy at your disposal. But in terms of seduction, it should not be used as a means of releasing all your energy out in order to feel more comfortable or to feel less tension.

Tension is a good thing, tension is potential energy, unreleased energy ready to go. My best seduction experiences have always been when I felt lots of tension and enjoyed it. But there is a point where tension stops being harnessing of energy and becomes inhibition of energy. You'll know when that happens because when you are inhibited, you cannot release energy even when you want to, you find it trapped somewhere and you don't have the key anymore. Meditation gives you the key back.

So again, I can't really tell you whether longer meditation is good or not, but my inclination is toward it not being useful for seduction at least.

However I'm interested to know what your experiences were like doing the longer meditations, if you're willing to share.

Now the question I have is, would this "emotional numbing" be good for something? Perhaps reprogramming the brain from a clean slate? Or is constant practice just making you into a passive individual with no emotions?

That's hard for me to say, again I don't have experience with longer meditation. I don't really believe in the idea of a clean slate - I don't think there is a way to functionally reset a human mind in a way that would be useful to it - the identity is the cornerstone of the mind, and it is built primarily through memory of experiences. Are memories just information, or are they also the emotions that came with it? I can only speculate on these things.

IIRC Andrew Huberman had some videos about optimizing learning/unlearning at a relatively late age, you might find something there.

Another question; I struggle with emotional numbing myself; what do you think would be the best way to deal with it?

I believe that there is no such thing as a healthy mind which is not challenged regularly almost to its limit. If you want to have a strong, capable, resilient, adaptable mind, you have to do things that scare you, and when you master or become accustomed to something to the point that it no longer scares you, you have to find something that does.

You don't have to succeed right away, you don't have to feel good, you don't have to be 'ready', you just have to throw yourself at it and it will mold you.

Some things I've done:
- Seducing girls
- Martial arts
- Travelling around dangerous places
- Abseiling and rock climbing
- Sailing a small boat in bad weather
- Starting a business
- etc

It's very hard to feel passive and emotionless when you are in consequential situations that are easy to lose control of. The pressure focuses you and increases your awareness, activates your energy and your drives, forces you to find ways to stay calm and be ready to adapt - as long as you don't run away.

Meditation is, in a way, a refinement mechanism. It's best used to trim off the anxiety that has built up around the thrust of your drive and your intent, to regain control of something powerful that is out of control, not to try and prepare oneself to some perfect state when nothing is happening. I think that's the main reason it can make you passive - it's like a drug that you only need when you're not able to bring yourself under control. But when you at at rest, it simply turns down the rpm of your engine when you might need that engine for the realization of your goals.

Perhaps it has other uses in terms of enlightenment and whatnot, but I can only talk about it in terms of making someone more effective in the real world.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rye

ChrisXKiss

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jul 31, 2023
Messages
391
I have not been meditating regularly in the classic sense, but I have been trying throughout the years to understand my thoughts and feelings and what I have found is something similar to what you describe.

Mainly that whenever I am too calm and too detached, I just don't have the drive or the intent to pursue something with women. It could even be that I get signals from them as I am truly in a good calm place internally that they can feel, but I feel no interest in any kind of action regarding them.

Sometimes after such scenarios I go totally to the other side and I take action too hard, in a way that it feels I am pushing for results which obviously has negative consequences.

In the end I have felt more or less that the right balance is somewhere around what you describe here
In my experience, to put it somewhat crudely, the best level of emotion to feel in competitive/dynamic situations, including approaching, is where it feels like a restlessness, an internal swelling of energy in your gut, but without any concrete attachment to specific thoughts or 'high-level' emotions in your head. When your head is clear, your attention is fully under control, your thoughts are not sporadic, yet in your gut you feel a sort of rumbling earthquake of energy building in your belly, that's when your mind and body are most ready to apply themselves to action, that's when you can move with energy but without anxiety, that's when your mind can be totally focused and present, and yet your body is ready to move and express, and the two work together most effectively.

I can't say I am personally able to just access states around this on command, but I feel it has to do with finding the right amount of practice that calms yourself without making you passive as the original post describes.

And something regarding the tension part:

Tension is a good thing, tension is potential energy, unreleased energy ready to go. My best seduction experiences have always been when I felt lots of tension and enjoyed it. But there is a point where tension stops being harnessing of energy and becomes inhibition of energy. You'll know when that happens because when you are inhibited, you cannot release energy even when you want to, you find it trapped somewhere and you don't have the key anymore. Meditation gives you the key back.

This is so true and something that most people don't seem to realise. In all endeavours in fact, if you have no tension at all and feel completely numb you are not going to perform.

Before getting on stage, I was always hearing people talk about stage fright and of course it exists. However, you would rarely hear about the situation that you happen to be too calm and numb because you know what you are performing and are so not engaged, that you almost feel nothing.

And by far the most boring uninspiring performances happen on the second occasion. At least the tension associated with stage fright you can use as a driver to make you more present and effective when it exists in a controlled amount.

To close, the last thing I would say regarding meditation or other such practices is that it really has to do with your goal. As seducers or as any functional human being I believe that looking at it from the lens of using it to have a better effect on the world is making a lot of sense. At the same time I feel that if someone is truly looking for enlightenment that involves total detachment from the physical world and desires, maybe the results of deep and long meditations is exactly what he wants.

Then we could discuss if as a human being with a physical body it is even possible to reach that state of discarding all physical desires and really being at peace with it, that said my view is that if someone wants to go for it, all the best to them.

In the meantime, I do prefer to focus on how to most effectively navigate around the parts of this physical world that I care to navigate around.
 

Rye

Rookie
Rookie
Joined
Dec 12, 2023
Messages
5
Interesting, was that your experience - that over 45 minutes you start to feel numb?
For Vipassana, no; it's body scanning so we were remaining active in our minds in some way. But when I'd do mindfulness, yes, I'd feel calm but emotional numb and not "there".
I have noticed anecdotally that many of the best seducers meditate at least a bit - and I think it is because while seduction is not a 'high performance' activity, your signal to noise ratio (especially in terms of more subtle signals) needs to be very high to be effective, and removing inhibition in particular, as well as anxiety and negative tension, is key to that. Being calm, present, and uninhibited in a busy public arena is one of the best ways to stand out positively - the way I like to think of it, it is one of the most socially acceptable forms of eccentricity.
Yes, the most charismatic wildest personality was from a voice acting coach I had, and she was completely uninhibited and eccentric, but VERY socially calibrated. It was a spectacle to see her interact with her environment in such ways. Elley Ray Hennesey if you want to search her up. She even talked about my qualifying habits when I was being coached by her and how I needed to get rid of them. Lots of actors I find are quite aware of this.
That said, seduction is very much about creating excitement, about emotional contagion that passes from you to her (or at least where you are the conduit for that emotion, as in the case of deep diving), leading her through currents of sexual energy with your tone, your touch, your body language, etc. It's very hard to do any of that when you are too passive, when she doesn't feel things looking into your eyes.

In a way, as I see it, managing your emotions during seduction is a process of expanding the amount of energy you can contain within you, without it creating anxiety. Anxiety is, in effect, an inhibited impulse, and unmanaged energy creates impulses of all kinds that we struggle to control. The key is to hold your emotional energy at the ready, and infuse it into your words and actions, without it spitting out in uncontrolled ways or creating internal conflict as you fight to control it. That is where I believe meditation comes in as a tool - it clears your head and gives you control of your attention, which puts your energy at your disposal. But in terms of seduction, it should not be used as a means of releasing all your energy out in order to feel more comfortable or to feel less tension.

Tension is a good thing, tension is potential energy, unreleased energy ready to go. My best seduction experiences have always been when I felt lots of tension and enjoyed it. But there is a point where tension stops being harnessing of energy and becomes inhibition of energy. You'll know when that happens because when you are inhibited, you cannot release energy even when you want to, you find it trapped somewhere and you don't have the key anymore. Meditation gives you the key back.
Exactly my feeling

However I'm interested to know what your experiences were like doing the longer meditations, if you're willing to share.
Sure. During my 10 day retreat, we did 10 hours of meditation everyday. It was broken into 1 hour segments, and we ate vegetarian food for breakfast and dinner. We focused on 'Vipassana' (body scanning) and watched videos every night to retain the proper mindset when doing Vipassana. The whole point was to recognize the ongoing nature of reality which is based on impermanence, arising-falling, moment to moment experiences, and to detach from the clinging on to such experiences. So say for example I feel dull pain in my thigh for 5 minutes. Each milisecond (or even less than) is a different moment. I can feel pain for 5 minutes, or it can be new to me each time I feel it. That way, the pain subsides because the mind clinging on to the "constant" pain is what creates further pain

Anyways, this is the mindset we had throughout the body scanning, and we did it cross legged and kept observing each sensation on our bodies to complete a full scan. This didnt really feel mind numbing, as I was observing the next sensations after next, so in some way I was taking action, but at the same time, I remained detached, because they stressed that you shouldn't 'focus' but 'observe'

So it may actually be better to do body scanning for longer sessions than mindfulness for longer, as mindfulness focuses on completely letting go of all thoughts and literally doing nothing. In Vipassana, you are doing something, but releasing the minds attachment from the action. and creating a default state of unattachment. Science shows as well that body scanning is the least disruptful form of meditation and extremely rarely has any negative effects on emotional disassociation (i seen this stat on a HealthyGamerGG video on the bad effects of meditation)
That's hard for me to say, again I don't have experience with longer meditation. I don't really believe in the idea of a clean slate - I don't think there is a way to functionally reset a human mind in a way that would be useful to it - the identity is the cornerstone of the mind, and it is built primarily through memory of experiences. Are memories just information, or are they also the emotions that came with it? I can only speculate on these things.
That's such an interesting perspective! I do think emotions are attached to it, and everything you learn has some emotion attached to it, small or big. We remember things we're most interested in because we have some sort of narrative in regards to the knowledge at hand, so we create many subplots to remember even information that others consider "boring". Even the boring things we remember, we may even consciously create a small narrative to help remember it. Memories might be based on emotion.
I believe that there is no such thing as a healthy mind which is not challenged regularly almost to its limit. If you want to have a strong, capable, resilient, adaptable mind, you have to do things that scare you, and when you master or become accustomed to something to the point that it no longer scares you, you have to find something that does.
You don't have to succeed right away, you don't have to feel good, you don't have to be 'ready', you just have to throw yourself at it and it will mold you.

Some things I've done:
- Seducing girls
- Martial arts
- Travelling around dangerous places
- Abseiling and rock climbing
- Sailing a small boat in bad weather
- Starting a business
- etc

It's very hard to feel passive and emotionless when you are in consequential situations that are easy to lose control of. The pressure focuses you and increases your awareness, activates your energy and your drives, forces you to find ways to stay calm and be ready to adapt - as long as you don't run away.

Meditation is, in a way, a refinement mechanism. It's best used to trim off the anxiety that has built up around the thrust of your drive and your intent, to regain control of something powerful that is out of control, not to try and prepare oneself to some perfect state when nothing is happening. I think that's the main reason it can make you passive - it's like a drug that you only need when you're not able to bring yourself under control. But when you at at rest, it simply turns down the rpm of your engine when you might need that engine for the realization of your goals.
Agreed, though, say you were participating in an artistic endeavour, like playing piano, and you're constantly thinking of ways to improve. but it's not something you fear, it's just something you are working on. Would that be another way of feeling active emotion? Or do you have to be in a constant fear chasing mode?
 
the right date makes getting her back home a piece of cake
Top