When to give up?

[hnk]

Hey gents, hope you're doing great!

These days I lost a very interesting/pretty girl and would like to know what could I have done better.

I met her while having lunch. She was sitting alone and I just asked her if there was anything good around. After grabbing the food she recommended, I went back and asked if I could sit at her table. We immediately had a pretty good connection and I set a date at a Starbucks nearby my home in the next days. The date was good, and after an hour I asked her to accompany me home, since I had to go pretty soon but we could still spend some time together while walking. At that point she told me she had to return some clothes in the nearby shops, and I had just to wait for her to do so (how else could I have handled it?). After that, she wanted to go back to her house, but after insisting a lot I convinced her to come to my place. When we were at my place I had very little time since I had to do something afterwards, so I started escalating almost immediately. We made out while she was giving me a little bit of resistance (i.e. wouldn't let me touch her tits). Anyways, there was no time to go further because I was really late at that point, so I changed my clothes, accompanied her out and went my way.

The following days she texted me asking how was I doing, and we agreed to meet for dinner. During the dinner date we had an even better connection. She told me that she was looking for a relationship, since she was tired of meeting the wrong guys and had become a little bit tired of just sex. After dinner, she offered to drive me home. When we arrived I asked her to park and come inside for a drink or a movie, but she refused to do so, even after insisting. Here I think I went a little bit to far with persistence, because after a while she was starting to get upset. So I just got out of her car, knowing that I lost her. After two days of radio silence, I called her and we had an hour long conversation. Basically she was upset for me not "respecting" her and being a jerk. I wanted to get her to come and watch a movie at my place, but she would refuse every time asking "what will we do at your place? Judging from what happened the first time this is pretty obvious". I tried to be as vague as possible, because I was not sure how to handle it. Anyways, somehow I convinced her about the movie, but the day after she texted me "I had a great idea! What about hanging out at the beach?". I thought that would have meant friendzone, so I just told her that we had already discussed the matter, and that she was coming at my place for a movie. She replied saying that she didn't want to watch a movie, rather coldly, and stopped replying at my messages.

It is clear to me that she is lost beyond recovery, but I would really appreciate some advice. Was I trying to be too assertive? I was partially trying to get things done in my way at all costs in response to the fact that she was a very experienced girl, with guys around her all the time (at least from what she said), so I felt pressured to be in charge. Also, should I just have met her at the beach? I didn't like this option since it would have meant a second 'no' to coming at my place. Finally, how to respond to the test "what are we gonna do at your place, since last time we already kissed?".

Sincerely,
hnk

 

[Smith]

hnk

I think you did the right thing not to meet at the beach unless you also genuinely wanted to go and it's something you would usually do without her.

how to respond to the test "what are we gonna do at your place, since last time we already kissed?".

Just say something like "no expectations, we're just gonna have fun =)"

Here I think I went a little bit to far with persistence, because after a while she was starting to get upset. So I just got out of her car, knowing that I lost her. After two days of radio silence, I called her and we had an hour long conversation. Basically she was upset for me not "respecting" her and being a jerk.

Yea I think you probably pushed too far without calibrating to her. She obviously likes you and just need more comfort. If you persist, it has to be fun. or otherwise, just drop it. I don't know how you persisted, but if she's telling you that you're not respecting her it means you're doing something majorly wrong. It means you need to improve on calibration. Don't change her mind, change her mood. This is something I'm working on too. There's a fine balance between "being entitled" and "calibrate like a gentleman". Too much of either one will make you a jerk or a nice guy.

I know some guys here would suggest not to make out heavily on the first date if you knew you won't have time to fully escalate to sex. But I think it depends on the girl. most likely with this girl, she probably had done something similar before, and she told you on the second date that she's looking for something serious. I don't know what you said to that, but if you're not looking for something serious, it's probably better to just tell her the truth and give her the choice to decide. why? Because abundance! You can't manipulate a girl into sleeping with you if she doesn't want to.

All the best for you man! Good luck!

 

[ray_zorse]

Hey dude congratulations on the pull home and all the things you did right here. As you probably figured out it was a bad idea to go off and do your other commitments when she was probably hot for, and expecting, sex. This left her disappointed and disqualified you as a lover, however you still had boyfriend value to her, that's why she gave you the bullshit speech about moving slowly and respecting her etc. None of that would have been an issue if you'd moved faster and capitalized on the opportunities she gave you. So it wasn't game over but you had to adjust your game to present yourself as a boyfriend candidate rather than a lover. Check out the girlschase.com article on "Date compression". Anyway in regards to the second part of your post let me give a metaphor. You're an angler going after big game fish. You hook a fish but your line is pretty weak compared with the muscular strength of the fish. So you let the fish pull out a lot of line working against the brake on your reel, which tires it out. Then you reel all that line in again. By this time the fish isn't tired anymore and it makes another attempt to get away which you allow it to do. Then you reel it in again and so on. For serious sport fisherman who hook a huge fish this battle can take days!! Your problem was lacking patience, trying to pull the fish in directly or setting the brake too high so your line got snapped. Next time adroitly sidestep all that bullshit discussion etc, and if she looks like giving resistance act like you don't care for a bit, never directly contradict what she says or give ultimatums, just build comfort when you need it and try again later. (If she's a timewaster then at a certain point just NEXT and ignore, but your girl wasn't a timewaster, just lacking sufficient comfort).
Ray
PS Cross posted w Smith, he also has good/more detailed advice.

 

[hnk]

Thank you Ray and Smith!

As you probably figured out it was a bad idea to go off and do your other commitments when she was probably hot for, and expecting, sex.

Yeah, that was a really bad idea, but I didn't imagine that about an hour would pass just waiting for her to return her clothes! Since I waited, I had the feeling that I had to get something out of that date in order not to be too low value.

Yea I think you probably pushed too far without calibrating to her.

Completely true, my calibration isn't that good. I just didn't expect her to say no, and she stopped in the middle of the road (even if not very trafficked) to drop me, so I didn't have much time to organize my thoughts.

Even if I didn't get laid, I enjoyed the whole process a lot, and I would have never had met this girl if I didn't read this site! I'll keep improving and let you guys know

hnk

 

[hnk]

UPDATE

After she stopped replying to my messages/calls, I deleted her number and just forgot about her. Then I randomly met again the girl two weeks ago, as I was going to the gym. I stopped her, and she seemed still pissed off with me, but I managed somehow to walk her towards a bench and sit there to discuss. As I proceeded to clarify our sudden break up, she had the most solid frame control I've ever encountered and was making life really difficult for me. But I was having fun and continued to tease her lightly, while grabbing her hands. After a while, I decided to ditch the gym and go to have dinner with her instead. At dinner I managed to re-establish the connection that we had through some lucky deep diving. After that, we went separate ways, and she refused to kiss me or give me her number again. Only to text me after an hour

In the following days I kept it pretty light/flirty with texts, and then invited her again to watch a movie. She replied "where?". I knew it was a test, so I just ignored the challenge and answered "My place, at 9pm". It took her two days to decide, during which we kept having light conversation, but then eventually she agreed to come. Well, at my place we of course didn't watch a movie Turns out she is into kinky sex, and we have been having crazy sex ever since. It is kinda curious that after we had sex, she turned from being one of the most challenging girls I met, to a completely submissive one. I guess Chase is right when he says that every girl deep down wants to submit.

I really like this girl and since we have a good connection we are already kinda close. On one hand I'm happy to have a girl that I like, but on the other, being a beginner, I fear that it might get in the way of getting better with women... so I'm not sure what to do next. Any advice?