Why do women become viewed as time wasters and not supportive?

[trashKENNUT]

Hi Guys,

I don't know why i view women as irritating and doesn't play the role of support as much as i believe so. I mean as in contribute to my life as something where we improve each other lifes whether friends or lovers.

Is it me or am i meeting the wrong people currently? Even normal people becomes more irritating to me if they are too up in their own ass.

It is like working for small gains. Not saying i don't want to but i can't grasp on how to manage it.

Zac

 

[Orelfius]

Is it me or am i meeting the wrong people currently?

Here, they teach you to be good at the social art. Other people usually suck at providing value. That's what make those who do (including us) special/better/wanted.

However, the 4 quadrant of Creep/Lover/Friend/Boyfriend also apply to women. they just have a different problem than us:

MEN
Sexiness
............Î
............|.................
..Lover... |...Boyfriend..
............|.................
---------------------------------- > Social value
............|.................
...Creep. | ...Friend.....
............|

Usual egotism challenge: lack of sexiness (beleive that is social value , aka provider, is enough)

WOMEN
Sexiness
^
........|
Lover | girlfriend
........|
____________________- > Social value
........|
Creep | Friend

Usual egotism challenge: lack of value (believe being pretty is enough, the cinderella fantasy)

The result:
Men complain to be stuck in the friend zone
and women complain to be stuck in the lover zone

That's why you feel that girls doesn't contribue to your life. It's because they don't. They beleive that all that a women have to do is to be pretty. They don't understand the "value" factor.

For same sex person (guys in your case), you can replace sexiness by coolness and boyfriend by bestfriend and lover by party buddy: Cool guy think that their coolness is enough to make a good friend: they neglect providing value.

I like to use that visual chart to quickly make the diagnostic of what feel off in any kind of relationship.

(OK, my alphabetical graphic design skills suck big time, but hopefully you get the idea: two axis, four quadrants.)

 

[Rusty]

I don't know if I share the same exact sentiments as you Zac, but I understand what you're saying.

It's difficult to find a woman that will really help you with your goal/mission in whatever stage of life you're at. Most women that I've dated need a hole to be plugged in by you (pun intended) and that void is usually filled by your time and attention. Every time my friends get into a relationship with a girl, they end up getting sucked into it. The girl wants to spend an unhealthy amount of time together and my friends usually end up the poorer for it as well.

Ideally you'd meet a woman who shares a similar vision to you, and is willingly to become your subordinate and support you. Some examples I see of this are men who are aspiring artists/creative types who don't make a lot of money, but they pour most of their energy into these pursuits and their women support them financially. It's the strongest example that I know of where money doesn't matter; it shows how powerful having a real mission/purpose in life is in bringing good women into your life.

Now I'm not saying this is ideal (the artist example), but it shows what's possible. I feel that most men end up defaulting on their dreams and goals and settle for raising a family in mediocrity, focusing their energies on providing resources for their wife and children and sacrificing their own purpose.

I don't think there's anything wrong with building a family, but I know with my own dad and several other older men I've met and had long conversations with that they end up becoming bitter and even harbor resentment towards their wives because they feel that they've compromised their personal happiness by committing to raising a family. Not all men have the resources to take care of their families and also spend time and energy on their own personal mission. A lot end up losing themselves in a 9-5 for the family.

I think there's always a tradeoff. You only have 24 hours a day, and you can't devote all your time to a woman and be successful in any sense. The deeper you get into a relationship with a woman, the more they end up demanding your time and resources.

 

[trashKENNUT]

Hi Guys,

I read your posts again later in the day. I also realize that screening and different wants in life plays a huge role too.

Asking a tomato to taste like apple is dumb from me.

Zac

 

[ray_zorse]

I am currently with a woman whom I find to be supportive in general, but based on experience this is unusual. Particularly my wife would make a great song and dance about how supportive she was being, whilst in reality jockeying for position and being a negative support. Although, my r/ship management has improved but it is mainly about the girl's personality. If she's an auto invester that's good. If she's quiet and consistent and does the little things to support you, rather than the grand guestures, that's also great. And, compliance -- I told my girl I wanted to do some approaching in clubs and see if we could bring anyone home, she said sure. She doesn't fully get it (how to wing me effectively) but has been a fairly willing learner in other areas so I think it just takes time and practice. Anyway, if you want a girl's support then don't forget to lead her effectively and provide feedback.

Great posts Orelfius and Rusty.

Ray

 

[trashKENNUT]

Hi Guys,

Something to note: On mainstream level, Women are giving. Actuality, this is a NO. everyone is selfish

Cassanova understood this. Just so all you guys know, Turkey in the past tried to abolish marriage. Funny eh that a muslim country actually did try to abolish marriage. Also, not mentioning that during the caliphate days, men did not want to have children with wifes too much due to vested interest. Vested interest is like marriage, an asset that cannot be taken.

The research is quite profound to me, but let's not go further into it. The validity is still murky.

I agree with ray_zorse. It is all about the girl's personality. There's a quote from Facebook, noting Barack Obama ask Michelle Obama if she married the boyfriend who work in a restaurant, will he be the restaurant owner? She noted that he will be the President of the United States. So, there's selfishness right there.

Cassanova understood this, i assume. That's why he died alone. I guess when you walk this path to the extreme, you either die a chode (RSD term of beta) or you die alone.

This is premature yet there's some truth to it. Anyway, i get back again

Zac

 

[trashKENNUT]

Hi Orelfius,

I like your quadrant. Is it what you do or is there an actual blog/wordpress that explains this more? The quadrant is interesting.

Rusty,

The girl wants to spend an unhealthy amount of time together and my friends usually end up the poorer for it as well.

Very true, and the girl leave them. Haha! Unfortunate that's how life works

I feel that most men end up defaulting on their dreams and goals and settle for raising a family in mediocrity, focusing their energies on providing resources for their wife and children and sacrificing their own purpose.

It's a society mindfuck. It's unfortunate most feminist try to deny this but the female desire and lack high consciousness expose them in the 21th century. It shows their selfishness and search for that "pillar".

Chase article on "There's always a men in her life".

I don't think there's anything wrong with building a family, but I know with my own dad and several other older men I've met and had long conversations with that they end up becoming bitter and even harbor resentment towards their wives because they feel that they've compromised their personal happiness by committing to raising a family. Not all men have the resources to take care of their families and also spend time and energy on their own personal mission. A lot end up losing themselves in a 9-5 for the family.

I think there's always a tradeoff. You only have 24 hours a day, and you can't devote all your time to a woman and be successful in any sense. The deeper you get into a relationship with a woman, the more they end up demanding your time and resources.

Advertising, government for social stability. It sucks that everyone is hurt by this and their denial of this makes this more hurtful for everyone.

Zac

 

[Orelfius]

Hi Orelfius,

I like your quadrant. Is it what you do or is there an actual blog/wordpress that explains this more? The quadrant is interesting.

Well, I'm passionate about human behaviour and psychology and I have studied various way to represent it visually, so all complicated stuff is made clear and you can see psychology happening around you. Next step for me was learning hypnosis and NLP to understand better and get more mean to act with people. The last part of the path was learning tactic about socializing, mostly with the excellent stuff on this site.

The quadrant is based on Chase's article about looser and lover on this site. I just place what he said in a visual representation that is easy to pick on. I also push the logic one step further to add friendship to that.

As a rule of thumb, it's really convenient to have a map of the human psyche and to be able to see right away where anybody is at any given time. Suddenly all what they do make sense.

But it's not what I do for a living, I'm just a dilettante.

And what about seduction? Well, have been very busy lately. Too much time spent on personal project. I guess I will have to start over from the beginning. I will start a journal in october: Beginners homework: we never work enough the base anyway.

 

[Jackson Joe]

This is all very well, but I do look forward to seeing some in field progress from you.

 

[Orelfius]

This is all very well, but I do look forward to seeing some in field progress from you.

Really? What for?
It sound a little bit…. critic? When I share my opinion, everyone is free to dismiss it and I never claimed to be an expert of any sort.

I believe what matter is the content of what's expressed. If a noob give a good advice take it. If an expert give a bad advice, ignore it. What's matter is what is saids, not who saids it.

Anyway, if I'm wrong and you say so because you like to read me, you will soon have your wish granted.

 

[Jackson Joe]

This is all very well, but I do look forward to seeing some in field progress from you.

Really? What for?
It sound a little bit…. critic? When I share my opinion, everyone is free to dismiss it and I never claimed to be an expert of any sort.

I believe what matter is the content of what's expressed. If a noob give a good advice take it. If an expert give a bad advice, ignore it. What's matter is what is saids, not who saids it.

Anyway, if I'm wrong and you say so because you like to read me, you will soon have your wish granted.

Apologies Orelfius,

That comment was meant to be directed at the post in general. Normally when I reply personally, I quote the person, so because I didn't see your quote, I didn't realise that....

 

[Jackson Joe]

I would like to see an actual field report Zac. This isn't a place to contemplate endlessly about broader issues.

And that avatar doesn't suit you either. That gangster, is not what you want to be aiming for.

 

[trashKENNUT]

Jackson Joe,

I would like to see an actual field report Zac. This isn't a place to contemplate endlessly about broader issues.

And that avatar doesn't suit you either. That gangster, is not what you want to be aiming for.

I actually ask specific questions when i started out. And all of those questions, Chase had to answer for it. Not saying everyone here isn't an expert but i was very particular and the only person i know who is particular, obsess, observant, and pretty much meticulous is Chase Amante.

I don't write field reports.

I used to go into certain details of interactions and i write particular objectives in my earlier posts here on Girlschase, And i never really get response very much unless i ask vague questions. I like to keep it light. I also write very badly and Chase noted this. Culture i guess. and this goes to point one, where particular questions were only answered by Chase, Franco and other senior members like Just_Dave, The Tool, Thinking Enigma. PrettyDecent was earlier here too. Mr Rob, maybe Estate was early here too, when we first start out. I like to keep my interactions open, and i want to know world views. I come from decently religious background and i am an Asian. I also have other problems growing up. It's normal for me to go back and forth. Even in politics, Chase ask to go out and pick one side, until i naturally outgrow.

Anyway, to answer your question. i do not write field reports. I am not prolific like members like NarrowJ and Richard. but i was here and they ask me and the earlier members advice. So give me some credit.

Just so you know, i spend diverse time across cold approach, approach at various works, communities, online, projects, many things. If you know your stuff, i don't talk nonsense, at least total nonsense.

I respond to this to clear myself, from future unnecessary tangle.

Zac

 

[Rage]

Zac you realize this is the same troll that keeps trolling you and getting banned and making another account and trolling again and getting banned.

To Jackson joe/John Elton/ whoever the fuck you are, you do fucking realize that everyone knows who you are no matter what you change your name to... They don't know that only because of your stupid celebrity backwards names, but Know that especially because you comment in the same nonsensical way (he comments and posts in the nonsensical way Zac, not you), leave unhelpful comments and weird statements and add to these boards equivalent to what a piece of shit adds to the garden of Eden.

You wallow in your negativity and evil, I found it funny reading your last few posts; you were trying so fucking hard not to be banned again not to say anything too negative or too disparaging and get banned for the fifth or whatever time. But couldn't resist but troll zac could you?

I haven't read the psychology about people like you, but I have met a few like you. You and them are kin; and you know what? You're the scum of the fucking earth.

I don't understand what pulls you or drives you or motivates you; i think it's a negativity that was within you from the day you were born or something heavily fucked in your early childhood development.

Whatever the case, when you get banned next maybe don't come back? As you really fucking aren't wanted here.

The difference is that you can keep coming back here even if you are unwanted here huh? It's different from how you're unwanted by other people or by your own friends and family, because here it's anonymous, we' re strangers, and you can be and say/flame and pretend to be anyone you want to be. As many names as you want to be, as many times as you want to be.

Must feel good and be pleasing to someone who can't keep themselves in anything or around anyone long enough physically to get to do so virtually. Goes for you and all the other trolls: living on through your keyboards, able to get some frills and kicks in your worthless existence because of how technologies advanced and how you can say and do whatever you want online now without a face or any consequence at the other end. You get to be whatever bad you want to be and enjoy it to the depth and degree you choose to; funny advanced world we live in today isn't it?

I can say don't come back, others can comment against you over and over, Chase can keep banning you over and over, your nonsensical ill-fitted and non-contributing posts can get ignored over and over.

But the fact that you can have nothing better to do but make accounts and be like a little gnat on this great positive place of the boards, the fact that you have to keep being here at this place where you are so fundamentally unwanted, so hated and not needed and ill fitted, and that you have to keep coming back just shows what a fundamentally insignificant worthless existence, life, and state of being you have.

You have negative self worth or some kind of masochistic need to come back again and again spread some negativity and then get banned and acted against again and again.

I think you enjoy it though if I were to guess. Are fundamentally at your core evil, a bad person, true scum. People like that do exist; some guy held 10 people hostage at this bbq across the street from my house the other day, he's one of them. The police shot him dead. What happens to you one day if you keep down the road of negativity, vampirism and spreading vitriol that you're continuing down now I wonder...

...

That's all I have to say about that. Come back over and over again. Get banned again like the despicable filthy excuse of a person you are and come crawling back again to get that vampirism and negativity to give you a bit more life force to keep eking out an existence. You have to keep coming back, keep spreading negativity one place or another: because you die if you don't do that. 

Don't do it here I'd suggest, but what do I expect to get out of suggesting that, and what reason do you have to not come back? Your life is worth that little and your existence is that pathetic that you would get banned somewhere over and over, liked or cared for by no one and then still have to come back over and over to make a little comment or two and then get kicked out over and over again.

its in your dna; you have to do it. In your blood I guess...

Get banned, and hope to see you never again... Or see you when you make your next account and get the sick kick out of your next couple weeks of random reverse celebrity-named borrowed life.

...

Btw zac, me and a lot of guys don't comment on your posts. But speaking for myself that's only cause I often don't feel like I could add more to them or can contiebute in the right way to them. But myself and a lot of guys I feel too, do enjoy your posts and the psychology and philosophical questions you post.

You make these boards complete, and they were much lonelier those few days you were gone.

Keep contributing massively as you've done almost longer and further than nearly everyone else on the boards. Don't doubt yourself or feel bad or off or negative for even a second; the leech/vampire wins if you do that.

Trolls will be trolls.

You keep being you.

And keep bringing the value you've brought the past years; myself and the others appreciate it and certainly value it.

End rant (good riddance lol)

Gem 

 

[Chase]

Banned Jackson Joe for trolling.

For anyone tuning in, offenses are:

• Criticizing someone on his avatar
• Telling someone to post new field reports

... either of which are fine for more senior members / people who know each other better, but newbies and guys with histories of trolling we don't need engaging in this.

Seems to just be a lack of social awareness, actually.

Like, if this guy hung around for a year or two and got to know everyone, he could probably elbow you in the ribs, Gem, and say, "You know, that avatar you've got up is pretty intense!" and the two of you would laugh about it and Gem would say yeah, but I like intense, and so on and so forth.

And, if he actually got on the field reports and posted a bunch of his exploits over the course of 6 or 8 months, earned his stripes, and earned the respect of his board mates, he could chat with Zac and say, "Hey Zac, it seems like you're having these issues - it'd be cool to see field reports. Maybe we could help narrow the issues down better," and Zac could say thanks for the suggestion, but that's not it - I'm more interested in bigger trends than reports and tactics, etc.

I don't think it's that he's bad or evil, Gem. He just seems to be genuinely unaware of the "you must earn your respect, it isn't just handed to you" nature of relationship-forming and who gets to critique and give orders to whom.

A big head + lacking calibration is often a good combination for causing offense in others.

Chase

 

[Rage]

Thanks for illuminating the situation Chase.

I think I should have went back and edited this after I posted (I drilled that out in a delirious state when I woke up to pee the other night like 4 a.m. but that’s no excuse) and likely was much more hostile than needed to be.

Defending Zac was fine and I’m glad I did, but I chewed the troll out really hard I think harder than I should have. It kind of scares me that I have the potential to do that and have the potential to flame someone so freaking hard like that (with words is almost worse than with violence in a way).

What you say is true and of course I should remember this, that he isn’t 100% evil, people aren’t 100% evil, not all bad or all good and are instead just shades of gray. There are just perspectives out there in the world and little stuff that truly is objective truth. Everyone’s justified in their own head or at least seeing/thinking/having some rationale between more or less most of what they are saying or doing, and he’s no different.

By random chance I happened to come across a video the next day after I replied to the troll, and that video was an interview of this really annoying and dedicated troll who used to troll all hobby bodybuilding youtube channels a couple years ago. He disappeared some six months to a year ago; in the video he talked about how he had been 300 lbs overweight and his girlfriend was dying back then and how he would be negative because he wanted people to respond wanted them to react, felt good felt great when they replied or when the big people who had several 100k subscribers on youtube replied.

Their anger gave him energy and gave/made him feel better but it was a fleeting feeling and would be temporary but then after he’d feel empty again (realize this isn’t the case for our particular troll on the board here; but this was an interesting learning experience for me).

Flaming the troll too and fighting fire with fire in any circumstance feels that same way to me. I felt fucking good writing that and posting it, same as it would feel really good to beat the crap out of someone who was wronging someone else. But after, you don’t really feel good, you wanna feel good, but you don’t feel good, cause what you did and the sentiment you had initially proceeded from hadn’t been a healthy or positive one.

You don’t feel that different, and really me and him and most people really aren’t that different I realize. All acting and thinking and doing as a result of influences and seeing things from our perspectives and all that… flaming him that hard doesn’t make me much better, and I could have said what I did in a much more civil way so I’m sorry for that.

Reminds me of something batman said to superman in the batman superman animated movie a while back (really awesome adaptation of the graphic novel by frank miller) superman says “you’re acting like a criminal” and batman says “we are criminals clark, the difference is that you work for a boss” (his boss being the president, who’s trying to shut batman down in that movie…). No real good guys and bad guys out there, just people with their own motives, own lens, and own agenda…

Apologize to the troll too if he’s out there too; turn your life around, come from a positive place wherever you do go and whatever you end up saying and doing.

I should have too.

I don’t have to be negative heavily to someone else, to bring another person up. I can bring the other person up positively without adding fire to the flame.

Perhaps I mature more through the days and get better at that as my journey progresses.

Gem