Why Guys Drop Out of the Game Right Before Breaking Through

[Chase]

I was just talking to Franco about the tendency for guys who are just about to break through a certain skill level with girls to suddenly get into committed relationships.

It’s an interesting phenomenon, and it’s one you’ll see if you pay attention to pick up boards long enough: a guy slogs along for a bit, slowly but steadily ups his results, and right where he’s reaching that point where you think he’s about to explode into a whole new level of success with women, both quantity and quality of girls, BLAM! he’s in a serious, committed, exclusive relationship.

I was thinking about this phenomenon, and the reason it seems to happen to me is this:

• Man has certain kinds of experiences with girls. He expects to succeed with women of a certain quantity, and a certain quality.

• As he improves with women, he draws nearer and nearer a threshold where he will suddenly break through and get loads more results with more and higher caliber girls.

• These thresholds are often sudden, and they can be explosions of success – a guy goes from one new lay per month with pretty average chicks to two new lays a month with pretty cute chicks.

• However, as he nears the threshold, he’ll be reaching this “breakthrough moment”, and will often start getting girls of a caliber that were previously rare for him.

• What typically seems to happen is the guy’s thinking, “Wow, this kind of girl’s a rare find – I’d better hang onto her”, not realizing he’s breaking through and she’s more ‘the first of many’ than she is a once-in-a-lifetime deal.

• At the same time, the girl seems to be able to tell this guy’s about to break through but hasn’t yet, and breaks out her bargain-hunter boots and locks him down in a slightly-needy “I can tell he’s about to zip off and leave me behind – but not if I lock him down first” way.

The end result is he gets a girl who’s good compared to what he’s previously gotten (but who would more or less be par for the course if he rode his breakthrough all the way out), while she gets a steal – a great guy who still values her highly, and she manages to lock him down right before he passed the point where she’d be nice but unexceptional for him. She gets him right before she becomes ‘ordinary’ for him, while she’s still ‘awesome’ for him.

There are several common thresholds you see guys draw near to, then suddenly zip into exclusive relationships:

• The beginner who was about to go from ‘never gets laid’ to ‘sometimes gets laid’
• The intermediate about to go from ‘sometimes gets laid’ to ‘often gets laid’
• The advanced guy about to go from ‘lays okay chicks’ to ‘lays super hot chicks’

It’s a pretty tough trap to escape, because you’re coming from your old paradigm, where girls like her are rare and probably previously next-to-unattainable, and she will also realize you’re at a level where most guys of your level treat her like just another girl, only you’re treating her like something special – you’re the 10 who thinks he’s a 7. So because you haven’t realized your value’s gone up, you’ll want to hang onto her, thinking you’re getting a huge value somehow ending up with this girl, while because she realizes your value’s gone up but you haven’t realized it yet, she KNOWS she’s getting a huge value and strikes while she’s got the chance to.

Easy way to think about it: your value just increased from $60 to $130, but you haven’t completely realized it yet and you’re still retailing at $60. Along comes a girl who realizes, and she says, “I’ll give you $90!” and you’re thrilled and think you’ve just got the deal of a lifetime. “I’ll take it!” you say, and you feel great about it and so does she.

There isn’t a surefire remedy around this; you can pledge to remain non-exclusive, but in practice most guys don’t seem to be able to pull this off. It just feels too good to throw yourself wholeheartedly into an exclusive relationship with a girl who seems like the cream of the crop of what’s attainable to you.

When these relationships end (and they don’t always, depending on when you enter into them; I’ve seen a bunch of marriages come out of relationships where a guy was just starting to break through and then met a girl and she locked him down), things go one of two ways:

• Either the guy quickly gets up-to-speed and picks up where he left off before, getting right back to his breakthrough, and doing better with women than he ever did. He won’t typically know why this happened, though he’ll often expect the relationship somehow rejuvenated him or taught him some valuable lesson that’s made him more attractive to women. In fact, what really happened was he reached the threshold before, got pulled away for 6 months or a year or two, then returned later; the relationship was more detour than pathway there.

• Or he forgets the lessons from before and the momentum he was on with women previously is shattered, and now he struggles to do well with women again. This is the guy who looks back and says, “Man, I was doing so well with women when I met Patrice, but now look at me – what even happened?” He can get back to where he was before, but he may have to repeat the climb it took him to get there.

So, just be aware of this. When you’re approaching a breakthrough in your game, you’ll often have women who seem like they’re at the top of or outside your usual league coming to you who are perfect as girlfriends for you.

On the one hand, dating a girl who’s exceptional for you really CAN be a major confidence booster; so this can be a good thing, even if you think you don’t need more confidence. It’s just one more bit of evidence that awesome women genuinely dig you.

On the other hand, it can nip your breakthrough right in the bud just as you’re about to make it, and if you instead soldier on and continue with your breakthrough in game, you may find you end up looking back and saying, “That girl was terrific, but I’m so glad I didn’t give her an exclusive relationship and cut my progress.”

Just something to keep in mind when you find yourself dealing with the breakthrough paradox: right as you’re reaching that new level of awesome abundance, you meet a girl you’d really like to give it all up for and settle into something warm and affectionate with.

Chase

 

[Richard]

It's all a part of the 5 stages of life, Chase.

At this point, guys have gotten past their fears and limiting beliefs and feel that these were the only two things holding them back so everything would be smooth sailing having conquered them, right? Wrong. When a guy settles before making a break through what's holding him back are his comfort zones.

As you said, women naturally pick up on this much more easily than men and are able to take advantage of it.

I think the easiest way to get past this is to simply be conscious of it; from my frequent talks with my mentor I've become aware of a lot of things and if you're already aware of where you're at stage-wise on the journey towards your goal then it's also easy to figure out what is holding you back in that stage.

-Richard

 

[Zoro]

“That girl was terrific, but I’m so glad I didn’t give her an exclusive relationship and cut my progress.”

Understanding that even more progress lays beyond is important.

A girl I was seeing last year was the best girl I've been with yet. There was a struggle in my head about what to do, but since I KNEW what I wanted out of my dating life (a solid base of skills and experience with girls of her caliber and beyond) the decision was easy.

I let her go when it was time, and haven't been able to land a girl like her again.

But I'm definitely a different man from even a year ago and still have the same life vision to strive towards.

 

[Lotus]

This post resonates deeply with the stage I am right now, as a result I have read it a couple times, so I thank you for the timing of this.

It's all a part of the 5 stages of life, Chase.

At this point, guys have gotten past their fears and limiting beliefs and feel that these were the only two things holding them back so everything would be smooth sailing having conquered them, right? Wrong. When a guy settles before making a break through what's holding him back are his comfort zones.

What are the 5 stages of life you are referring to?

If I'm understanding this correctly you are saying he originally breaks through those comfort zones they are gone and he thinks he has defeated them, but in reality they have expanded and the limits are just changed. He needs to re-asses his new comfort zones and then look to break them again?

Personally, I just smashed some of mine. Now I feel relatively at peace and I think it's due to the expansion of my comfort zone. Even though it was so recent, I feel comfortable. I need to find the edges again and look to break them.

Have guys at the top level been able to find and smash these comfort zones on a weekly/monthly basis.. is that what really separates you... the repeated destruction of them?

-Lotus

 

[Thedoctor]

Makes me think of this song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQhn2sy8r5g

Every time I hear it, I imagine a dude breaking up with his gf after realizing he's been fooled and moves on to better things...

-John

 

[Richard]

What are the 5 stages of life you are referring to?

If I'm understanding this correctly you are saying he originally breaks through those comfort zones they are gone and he thinks he has defeated them, but in reality they have expanded and the limits are just changed. He needs to re-asses his new comfort zones and then look to break them again?

Personally, I just smashed some of mine. Now I feel relatively at peace and I think it's due to the expansion of my comfort zone. Even though it was so recent, I feel comfortable. I need to find the edges again and look to break them.

Have guys at the top level been able to find and smash these comfort zones on a weekly/monthly basis.. is that what really separates you... the repeated destruction of them?

-Lotus

Not exactly,

What I am saying is that comfort zones only stop people who are already engaged in the journey/working towards a goal. Things other than comfort zones stop people from originally taking their first steps on that journey.

Take somebody whose goal in weight-lifting is to be shredded and look like Arnold Schwarzenegger. Before he even sets foot in the gym there are things stopping him from doing so but if he conquers them and eventually sets foot in the gym then he feels like those things that originally stopped him from even making it to the gym were the only pitfalls to look out for. So, he starts working out and he puts on some muscle... and one day he looks in the mirror and becomes content with his progress.

He figures that he's happy with his appearance now, and he figures he can return to the gym whenever he wants to if he wants to get to Arnold-status. This is the next pitfall; the comfort zone stops him from pushing himself to become more shredded and put on more muscle.

Basically, he didn't have to break through any comfort zones to go to the gym - he had to break through himself and stop himself from self-sabotage. After that he figures it's smooth sailing... and it gets too smooth.

Sorry if I'm being a little vague here. I was asked by my mentor to not explicitly reveal this life stage model yet. So, I'm respecting his wishes and leaving some blanks but you should still get the gist of things.

-Richard

 

[Raqimus]

Hahahaha this exact shit is happening to me at this very moment. With both women and working out. I picked up on this myself but I have been deluding myself with the gym part and with the girl I would get into a relationship shes leaving in December so exclusivity is not in the future (Have also fucked other girls while our "relationship" has been going on). Great timing!

 

[NarrowJ]

Raqimus,

Hahahaha this exact shit is happening to me at this very moment. With both women and working out. I picked up on this myself but I have been deluding myself with the gym part and with the girl I would get into a relationship shes leaving in December so exclusivity is not in the future (Have also fucked other girls while our "relationship" has been going on). Great timing!

I am also "right here, right now" with this thing as well. Except the girl I am seeing (for a month now) is roping me in rather quickly. I've already met her whole family (gasp).

About 6 months ago I started feeling like I was tired of railing dirty sluts, and decided I was going to go for "higher quality" women and try the whole relationship thing. Dated a girl for about 5 months, and got my ass handed to me. Jumped right into this relationship with the current girl I'm seeing right after that, too.

Need to get back to business here, I think. I can still go for "higher quality" women, but just not let them suck me in. Like Chase said, I think you start going for (and getting) higher quality women, and internally you're like "ok, I'm here, finally"... when there's still so much more you can do.


J.J.

 

[Rage]

Do you ever reach a point where you realize you feel you are done breaking through new heights and levels and you are probably right at that point?

Maybe that's a certain point of diminsihing returns that will be different for different guys. and some guys will establish and guess what that point is beforehand while others wont or will just get in a relationship and stall out because of that and not ebcause they reached the point they had originally expected to (say regularly sleeping with a new attractive girl twice a week or soemthing).

How would you distinguish that point from false feelings of that point where you feel ilke you are "there" but you in fact actually have further that you can end up going? Wouldn't it rather be that you just inevitably settle at some point but quite likely have much further you could go that you just haven't or aren't realizign or prioritizing at that moment in your life (say countries you haven't gone too, or types of advanced niches you haven't tried at all or other things like this) and that everyone settles at some point.

More specifically, I guess my question would be, when you do settle into relationships how do you make sure you've gotten good enough already... maybe that's a point you never really can reach?

if the question makes sense... lol

Cheers,

-Rage

 

[Lotus]

What are the 5 stages of life you are referring to?

If I'm understanding this correctly you are saying he originally breaks through those comfort zones they are gone and he thinks he has defeated them, but in reality they have expanded and the limits are just changed. He needs to re-asses his new comfort zones and then look to break them again?

Personally, I just smashed some of mine. Now I feel relatively at peace and I think it's due to the expansion of my comfort zone. Even though it was so recent, I feel comfortable. I need to find the edges again and look to break them.

Have guys at the top level been able to find and smash these comfort zones on a weekly/monthly basis.. is that what really separates you... the repeated destruction of them?

-Lotus

Not exactly,

What I am saying is that comfort zones only stop people who are already engaged in the journey/working towards a goal. Things other than comfort zones stop people from originally taking their first steps on that journey.

Take somebody whose goal in weight-lifting is to be shredded and look like Arnold Schwarzenegger. Before he even sets foot in the gym there are things stopping him from doing so but if he conquers them and eventually sets foot in the gym then he feels like those things that originally stopped him from even making it to the gym were the only pitfalls to look out for. So, he starts working out and he puts on some muscle... and one day he looks in the mirror and becomes content with his progress.

He figures that he's happy with his appearance now, and he figures he can return to the gym whenever he wants to if he wants to get to Arnold-status. This is the next pitfall; the comfort zone stops him from pushing himself to become more shredded and put on more muscle.

Basically, he didn't have to break through any comfort zones to go to the gym - he had to break through himself and stop himself from self-sabotage. After that he figures it's smooth sailing... and it gets too smooth.

Sorry if I'm being a little vague here. I was asked by my mentor to not explicitly reveal this life stage model yet. So, I'm respecting his wishes and leaving some blanks but you should still get the gist of things.

-Richard

That makes sense, thanks for clarifying Richard.

I had briefly searched the net and GC but didn't see anything so I figured I'd ask. Hopefully it will be a model I will get to see someday!

More specifically, I guess my question would be, when you do settle into relationships how do you make sure you've gotten good enough already... maybe that's a point you never really can reach?

I'm wondering the same thing, because one of the hardest things is assessing your own value. Especially since most of ours is always increasing and in ways we can't always quantify.

-Lotus

 

[Chase]

Rage-

Do you ever reach a point where you realize you feel you are done breaking through new heights and levels and you are probably right at that point?

...

How would you distinguish that point from false feelings of that point where you feel ilke you are "there" but you in fact actually have further that you can end up going? Wouldn't it rather be that you just inevitably settle at some point but quite likely have much further you could go that you just haven't or aren't realizign or prioritizing at that moment in your life (say countries you haven't gone too, or types of advanced niches you haven't tried at all or other things like this) and that everyone settles at some point.

More specifically, I guess my question would be, when you do settle into relationships how do you make sure you've gotten good enough already... maybe that's a point you never really can reach?

Yes, absolutely. Every guy hops off the breakthrough wheel at some point or other, usually when he reaches the point where his satisfaction with what he has / can get outweighs his dissatisfaction with what he hasn’t / can’t get.

The difference is that the guy who’s just breaking through gets a “Whoa, I’m so lucky” feeling, because he was new to breaking through and is suddenly getting a higher caliber of girl than he’s accustomed to. It feels special to him.

The guy who’s simply reached his own personal peak and decided to hop off the training wheel will not usually have this emotion with the girls he picks though, because his breakthrough has already come and gone and he’s now used to the kinds of girls he gets. The last time he felt like “Whoa, I never get girls like this” was back whenever his last breakthrough was.

There will always be more you CAN do and more breakthroughs you can achieve. However, diminishing returns kicks in, and at some point your level of desire for the next level of returns is not great enough to justify the effort it takes to get there.

Chase

 

[Big Daddy]

Hey Chase,

I might provide some thoughts from someone who's still on the grind.

I couldn't quite relate to this post because I was under the impression that committing to a girl for the first time (or for the first time with girls a tier above than you're usually getting) was posed as a progress-hinder rather than a temporary step to dig further into the understanding of the female mind.

I've never had a girlfriend, and these are the reasons that being in a LTR for 6-12 months sounds beneficial for me and that would make me go for it if I find a girl that's worthy of something more long-term, even if she's not ideal:

• I'd have plenty of opportunity to master sex techniques
• I'd be able to fail early and with reduced risk, assuming that I acknowledge that she'd be temporary (I do)
• I'd have peace of mind having access to sex while working on other areas of my life, which is my single major problem right now; I'm trying to spin too many plates
• I'd have closer access to a female mind, more opportunity to deal with drama and overall develop a deeper understanding of women (gathering reference points)

I've been accepting that we're bound to fail sooner or later and I'd rather do it with a girl that I don't care as much (but would like to spend time with, naturally) when the stakes are lower.

I realize the issue you're talking about here is guys perceiving a 7 girl as a 10 because they were used to getting 4s and 5s. But being around you and Franco for so long made me grasp how a healthy relationship looks like.

And because I established a super long-term goal that's so far in the future, that I don't believe that I'll have enough reference point to have a longer, healthy LTR before I'm around 28 or so, so I view it as practice (I just turned 22 a few weeks ago).

 

[Chase]

BD-

Don’t get me wrong, you should absolutely be taking girlfriends!

My advice to guys who are serious about developing seduction as a skill set is simply not to have exclusive girlfriends. Not until you’ve reached the point where you’ve bedded lots of girls and dated lots of girls and you can go into it with a cool head instead of because your emotions are ringing church bells and carving hearts and arrows on trees.

That’s fine for guys for whom getting good with women is not a serious ambition; for whom feeling good now trumps feeling better later. That’s probably most men.

If you’re ambitious in your dating life however, you’re better served by continuing to push the bounds of your comfort zone until you find yourself satisfied with where you are at.

At the same time, if you’re refusing relationships with great girls because you solely want to focus on pickup, you’ll develop a lopsided skill set, where you’re great at meeting girls and taking new girls but awful at maintaining them. You’re also probably going to burn out eventually, because most guys need some kind of connected relationship to retreat to sooner or later.

So, do take new girlfriends. Just don’t promise them exclusivity while still hard on your growth curve. Hustle hard and find ways to keep them despite not being able to offer them a monopoly on your cock.

Chase

 

[ray_zorse]

Yeah. Quite a timely post for me. I'm probably about here:

The intermediate about to go from ‘sometimes gets laid’ to ‘often gets laid’

I broke up with my girl around March (IIRC) to focus on game, as it was a FWB relationship that was moving towards exclusivity (she had met my family and kids so I couldn't keep her as FWB for much longer), continued to game and my results were getting really good, I had a lot of dates/pulls/FUs with really hot girls I met through daygame, and an unexpected lay through nightgame, and was feeling like I could get a new girl within a few weeks to a month of hard grinding anytime... but since I missed my girl a lot, I decided to give it one final push (during my holiday, in which I had a 1hr meet-to-lay and many interesting makeouts/FUs) and then try out relationship with her.

Yeah, I kind of regret this decision, because I lost the motivation to approach and my fundamentals have really gone backwards, I still get attention from girls but I feel very half-hearted and indecisive in my interactions. But I've really thought about it and decided for now that that's okay, I just want to enjoy my relationship for the time being and not second-guess it. I honestly don't want to change at the moment, I like my current routine (divided between work, my kids, and my girl, even if it's frustrating not being able to do everything on any given day).

I feel like I could reasonably happily break up with my girl and reclaim a lot of time in my routine that I could use productively for work and hobbies, but the reasons I don't are (1) I don't want to hurt her, her happiness is hugely important to me (2) my girl gets on well with my children and they seem to like and accept her, and this is also hugely important to me (3) I honestly feel my girl is really special, yes I know that with absolute abundance I can find lots of special girls, but I think I lack the calibration at the moment to know just how special she really is, so from that point of view, I feel that letting her go is a risk.

What I like about my girl is that she's a quiet achiever, she always has a positive attitude, never ever complains about anything, unquestioningly invests and assists me with whatever is important to me, but does it from a place of generosity, I never get the feeling she's trying to buy my favour. The times we broke up she handled it with great dignity, maybe shed a tear or two, but would say something like "well I really care about you" and then withdraw and let me do my own thing without any drama whatsoever. In those times she was happy to hang out with me platonically and just support me in whatever way she was able.

The other thing is that we have really great and frequent sex, I have never experienced anything like this in my life, she is unbelievably horny and she is wonderful in bed, despite only having had one serious partner before and never having tried oral sex or anything advanced before she met me (in fact she believed it was a sin). She seems to really dig my body and my ability to give her lots of orgasms, and she REALLY, REALLY wants to please me. I hadn't experienced a good blowjob till after my divorce (age 37 or so), and since then the bar has been raised many times, but my girl does it with JUST SO MUCH LOVE.

The quantity and quality of sex with my girl is incredible, it's hard for me to keep up, after having sex 5 or 6 times in a weekend I feel like it's difficult to get fully hard, but sometimes I surprise myself. Umm, when I see guys posting this kind of stuff I think "love bombing" -> "cluster B" and I still have doubts in my mind as to whether I can really trust myself. As I advised some other guys, you won't be able to tell a cluster B until she's got you, she'll be too good.

Thing is I know my girl would like to have a baby and I'm worried that if I get her pregnant (or just let her move in... or marry her for immigration reasons... or any other form of commitment that's difficult to undo)... her good behaviour might tail off. Once burned, twice shy... on the other hand I'm wary that the bad experiences I had with my wife shouldn't deter me from trusting my current girl, every indication I have is that she's a nice, normal, trustworthy girl who is incredibly into me and whom I admire quite a lot.

So I feel like I'm at a crossroads here, if I commit to my girl and let her move in and marry her within a few years and give her a baby, I think I would have a really great life... on the other hand, if I break up with her, I'll hurt her a lot and miss the opportunity for something long term with her, which feels like a big cost to me at the moment, but I would have lots more motivation to get really GREAT with girls. At any rate, even if I settle into something long term, I will still be having occasional affairs (as I am now) and will be trying to set up threesomes and so on, but I feel like I need better skills to make this work.

Ray

 

[Big Daddy]

My advice to guys who are serious about developing seduction as a skill set is simply not to have exclusive girlfriends. Not until you’ve reached the point where you’ve bedded lots of girls and dated lots of girls and you can go into it with a cool head instead of because your emotions are ringing church bells and carving hearts and arrows on trees.

If you’re ambitious in your dating life however, you’re better served by continuing to push the bounds of your comfort zone until you find yourself satisfied with where you are at.e

This is me. To this date, I didn't make leaps of progress because as I mentioned, I couldn't quite focus on "pickup" with laser focus intensity; but that's my plan and I'll not quit until I reach the absolute upper levels of seduction.

As Ray mentioned, this is a timely post because I'm depleted as fuck and needed a pause. A girlfriend would serve me well during that time and I think I might have carried on too much about that. But I think this is just me approaching this matter emotionally and not with the right mindset.

I listened the Blackdragon episode on the podcast the day it came out and it opened my eyes to non-exclusivity. I was really sure that non-monogamy wasn't really my thing but that convinced me otherwise (I'm not as radical as Caleb is, though; I think monogamy could work).

 

[Rage]

BD-

Don’t get me wrong, you should absolutely be taking girlfriends!

My advice to guys who are serious about developing seduction as a skill set is simply not to have exclusive girlfriends. Not until you’ve reached the point where you’ve bedded lots of girls and dated lots of girls and you can go into it with a cool head instead of because your emotions are ringing church bells and carving hearts and arrows on trees.

That’s fine for guys for whom getting good with women is not a serious ambition; for whom feeling good now trumps feeling better later. That’s probably most men.

If you’re ambitious in your dating life however, you’re better served by continuing to push the bounds of your comfort zone until you find yourself satisfied with where you are at.

At the same time, if you’re refusing relationships with great girls because you solely want to focus on pickup, you’ll develop a lopsided skill set, where you’re great at meeting girls and taking new girls but awful at maintaining them. You’re also probably going to burn out eventually, because most guys need some kind of connected relationship to retreat to sooner or later.

So, do take new girlfriends. Just don’t promise them exclusivity while still hard on your growth curve. Hustle hard and find ways to keep them despite not being able to offer them a monopoly on your cock.

Chase

Chase,

This sounds ideal especially if I (or any other guy in these shoes) can reconcile between wanting to settle fully monagmously and the embattled emotions within him that want to do that, but that also don’t want to throw in the towel with pickup.

From this old thread of yours viewtopic.php?f=3&t=53&p=54&hilit=soft+eyes#p54 and one or two others that I vaguely recall: won’t the conservative, unicorn quality girls object to these sort of relationships to some degree or another and really want for them to be exclusive with you?

I’ve only gotten through like first 40 minutes of the latest GC podcast though, my answer may be within there perhaps, regarding this and addressing it/dealing with it.

Thanks, to anyone who can answer this or has ideas about this.

-Rage

 

[Chase]

@ BD-

this is a timely post because I'm depleted as fuck and needed a pause. A girlfriend would serve me well during that time and I think I might have carried on too much about that. But I think this is just me approaching this matter emotionally and not with the right mindset.

Well, you know what you need better than anyone.

I will say, if you think you can pull off taking a great girlfriend without giving her exclusivity, give it a try. It’s profoundly educational, and lets you to restore your reserves without sidetracking your progress.

However, it’s also perfectly normal for guys to just hop out for a while and take an exclusive girlfriend. The path I’m suggesting is one most guys can’t pull off, or don’t care to. It’s useful, but hard, and if your emotional reserves are spent it might make sense to take a break for a while too. Not everybody wants to be a pickup übermensch (or even if he does, maybe he is nevertheless not in a big hurry to get there and does not mind some detours along the way).

@ Rage-

From this old thread of yours viewtopic.php?f=3&t=53&p=54&hilit=soft+eyes#p54 and one or two others that I vaguely recall: won’t the conservative, unicorn quality girls object to these sort of relationships to some degree or another and really want for them to be exclusive with you?

I dated the girl in question from that post, and we had a discussion about me needing to travel often that went like this:

• Her: When you are in other countries, you cannot have sex with other girls!
  
  Me: [stared at her, smiling devilishly, said nothing]
  
  Her: [aroused smile] Okay, well, you cannot have girlfriends!
  
  Me: [continued to stare at her, smiling devilishly, still saying nothing]
  
  Her: [even more aroused, laughing] Okay, this relationship is definitely not going to work!

And then we slept together immediately after that and everything was fine.

Most girls have a limit, sometimes not until the 2 year drop, but sooner or later even if you run things just about perfectly and keep the right balance, you’ll mess up somewhere: not enough growth, not enough security, etc. That’s when this really becomes an issue.

So long as the relationship’s well-tended-to and you’re hitting all the right notes (and your frame is basically “Look, this is how it just is with super high caliber men and the women they date”), it’s a surprising non-factor and only serves as an attraction booster.

Chase

 

[Rage]

Thanks for the clarification Chase; haha sounds pretty funny and awesome all in all. I listened to the rest of the black dragon podcast last night, and what you mentioned above sounds very similar to what Caleb discussed.

Pretty neat that this kind of frame and precedent can be set and held semi long term.

 

[lux7]

I dated the girl in question from that post, and we had a discussion about me needing to travel often that went like this:

• Her: When you are in other countries, you cannot have sex with other girls!
  
  Me: [stared at her, smiling devilishly, said nothing]
  
  Her: [aroused smile] Okay, well, you cannot have girlfriends!
  
  Me: [continued to stare at her, smiling devilishly, still saying nothing]
  
  Her: [even more aroused, laughing] Okay, this relationship is definitely not going to work!

Chase

Chase, was this the girl you met in an elevator?

Are you still in touch with her and/or some other GFs you had a great time with?
I like staying in touch with girls I hold in high esteem, but never did so successfully if they were relationships / long time dating, much easier with quick flings.

 

[Lawliet]

That devilish gaze and smile. Wonder if that works for any kind of question we don't want to answer (bad frame).
What did you follow up after her "This relationship definitely won't work out"?

Is this how you explicitly tell your main gf that you're seeing other girls too as part of the relationship?

Yours,
Lawliet