What's new

Xen's Journal

Xen

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
11
I'm going to try this out! I'm hoping that keeping a journal will encourage me to take some risks I would normally back down from-the incentive being that I can talk about them here. For instance, today I backed down from talking to a girl in my class who is clearly interested in me, when I had a good opportunity to do so; maybe I wouldn't have done that if in the back of my mind I was considering that I'd have to admit to it in my journal. So, let's see how it goes.

-Xen
 

Xen

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
11
Heh, thanks nino. Really enjoyed reading through your journal btw. It is an inspiration to me. :)
I'm going to do the newbie assignment at some point, which might be interesting, but for now I'll just ramble a bit.

Today I was talking with one of my friends, who happens to be in the class of girls who love their boyfriends. Because of that I wasn't trying to maintain any kind of tension, just was talking to her naturally. What I noticed was that she was asking me a lot of questions, and I ended up doing most of the talking. I could almost feel myself getting pulled further and further into the friend zone. Not a big deal this time, since I wouldn't even want to try ruining her relationship, but I just never would've been attuned to this dynamic before finding chase's blogs. I probably would've sensed it vaguely and felt a little uncomfortable, but this time I knew exactly what was happening, so it didn't bother me at all. I just need to keep in mind that there needs to be some tension, i.e. I need to do less talking, when actually conversing with a girl I'm interested in.
 

Xen

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
11
Later today: I went to dance club, danced with a bunch of women. Nobody new though...this time I went in with the goal of talking while I danced, but again it was mostly me doing the talking; couldn't seem to get past the small talk. This is definitely something I need to work on. An observation is that if you can get a good conversation going while dancing with a girl it doesn't matter if you suck at dancing; she'll still enjoy it.
At the bus stop on my way home, I saw a girl who looked a little bit familiar, and it seemed that she might have recognized me as well. Normally in this situation I would just ignore her, pretend I didn't remember her, but this time I decided I'd overcome the resistance and just talk. I had an easy opener ("hi, you look a little familiar...do I know you?") -this is about as indirect as you can get, though, and our conversation was pretty boring, standard stuff. I might have been abe to get past small talk with a few more minutes, but her bus came by a minute after we started. That situation is orders of magnitude away from approaching a stranger, but it was still good for me to do it.
On the bus home I took a seat next to a girl, didn't try to talk to her.
 

Xen

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
11
Some good news! I just heard back from a girl I'd asked out over facebook (I know, facebook bad, right...). She was out of town then, which was some time ago. I think I did a decent job of building rapport over the initial conversation, I'll just include the relevant part now.
...

Her: 12:46pm Feb 7
i'm still in china now. will contact you once i get back, for sure

Me: 2:25pm Feb 7
sure, tell me when you're back --and happy new year!!

Her: 9:31am Feb 9
Thank you! It's nice that you know the Chinese New Year~You too have a happy year~

Me: 3:01am Feb 10
Thanks! Hope to see you soon.

Her: 12:51am Mar 1
Hi~I'm back in town. We can find some time for lunch or dinner these days when you have time

Just a little background here, I met this girl at a department happy hour about 9 months ago. I was a little drunk at the time, and feeling more bold than usual-so I approached her group, which was her and two male friends, all chinese, and started talking with them. Actually, I only really talked to the guys...but I think that boldness made an impression on her. I had just finished three chinese language classes too, so I was kind of trying to talk to them in chinese-not succeeding too well. Anyway, I kind of disappeared from her life for the next few months, although we became facebook friends a few days after meeting. In fact, I was pretty strongly attracted to her on first meeting, but didn't have the chance to do anything about it for a long time-I went to china for the summer soon after, and then when I came back she was a TA in one of my classes...which was an interesting situation.
But now, it appears that both of us are available. I need to consider how to answer her message, first of all. I'm considering asking her out this Saturday, because it seems decisive, and might help me move things more quickly. I might frame it like this "Hi 'name', you're back!! Is this Saturday too soon for you? " And invite her to lunch or dinner if she says that's a good time. That way I give her an easy out if saturday isn't good for some reason.

Um, for anyone reading this, can I get an opinion-if I have the option of inviting a girl for either lunch or dinner as a first date, which one should I choose? I have a restaurant in mind that's very close to my apartment, so logistics are not a factor. I looked over the tactics page and didn't see anything relevant there.
 

Xen

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
11
Well, I got the date well set up. We'll go out for dinner tomorrow, then I'll try to get her back to my apartment. I plan to avoid touching her too much during the evening, then go for a kiss with eye contact soon after bringing her back to my place, and escalate from there. Hopefully my relative inexperience won't cause me to fuck this up...
 

Xen

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
11
Well, fucked it up. We had a really nice dinner, where I did some deep diving, and she seemed really into the conversation. Like I said before, I didn't touch her through the evening, just talked and tried to seem sexy. The restaurant we went to was really crowded, which I think was good, and it meant that we got about 45 minutes of talking in. She asked me where my apartment was and if I had any roommates while we were waiting to be seated, which was a pretty clear indication to me that she was interested in coming back to my place after we were done eating. My apartment is less than a minute's walk from the restaurant so we arrived less than an hour after first meeting.
We went up the stairs, maintaining a kind of shaky, nervous conversation. Her voice was kind of quivering, like she was trying to hide her nervousness-I huess mine must have sounded similar. Anyway, I couldn't think of a good way to maintain the conversation once we were in my apartment. Even though it's my home turf, and I should have the comfort advantage there, I couldn't think of much to say. I wanted to kiss her, but I fell into the trap of waiting for a good moment-you see, her body language was really close off, arms folded across chest. I couldn't really see how to go for a kiss when she was closed like that, and I was too nervous to do any more deep diving, or really even any more small talk. I also made one really big mistake, that doesn't have anything to do with inexperience...I offered her a drink of wine, which is fine, but I had been keeping it in the freezer, and it wouldn't pour, which made me look stupid.
Anyway, at about the 15 minute mark she was really uncomfortable, and said she would get going. I kind of panicked then, and I asked her if I could kiss her. Not if she wanted to kiss me, but whether I could kiss her. I'm not sure if that was better or worse than doing nothing, but it just made her want to leave. She told me, we need to talk about this in a more public place, or something to that effect...
Then she said, "I don't know if I want to be in a relationship with you." I can't remember the exact words, but something like that. "I don't even really know you...why do you want to be my boyfriend." I said to that "I don't want to be your boyfriend." She was controlling the interaction at this point, though, and I was just following her down the stairs. Then, she guessed at my inexperience, saying "have you ever had a chinese girlfriend before." I had to admit that I hadn't. In fact, I have had sex with a chinese girl before, but never been in a relationship with one...I didn't say anything like that, though. Than she asked me if I had ever been in a relationship at all, which in fact I haven't been. Not a sexual one, anyway. To this I answered "it doesn't matter..." A weak answer, but infinitely better than saying "no."
Anyway, at this time I had already gotten to the point where I saw the chances of having any kind of relationship with this girl as being virtually nil. Move fast and fail badly, and you're out. But at this point, when I had nothing to lose, I stopped being nervous, and started being a jerk. Not really intentionally, it isn't in my nature at all to be like that, but I was frustrated. We were walking around a nearby shop for half an hour, me trying to convince her to come back to my place, her resisting...at first she seemed pretty flattered by the attention, actually, but eventually it was getting extremely awkward for her. This time I was trying to put my arm around her, grab her hand, etc...she kept brushing this off. But it was an exercise in futility, since she had already made her decision when she left my apartment the first time.
Her sticking point on the resistance was that she was looking for a long term relationship that would eventually lead to marriage, preferably with a chinese guy. She also gave the point that people might find out, and me being younger than her, etc...that stuff is obviously just a nice way of saying that I messed up and she is no longer sexually attracted to me. I finally let her go, since I was getting tired of the argument, and my reason was setting in and I was starting to feel bad about making her pay twice over for my ineptitude. When things go this badly, I think it's necessary to protect one's reputation; so I apologized to her via facebook, in a way that I think would make her feel like the situation was diffused.

So, the story is now over, and I have turned a girl who quite possibly would have gone to bed with me into a certain amount of experience. In order to make the whole thing worthwhile, I need to get the most out of the experience, and find out what to do better next time. I feel sorry for her having to go through that, but how else will I gain any skill?
The main problem with the approach I chose this time, is that I don't have enough of a sexual or dominant vibe going to dispence with the touching. At my level, I need to touch a lot. I believe that what I should have done was to take her on a moderately long walk after the restaurant-and hold her hand, put my arm over her shoulder, even try a kiss...just to get her used to me before we go into a sexually charged environment like my apartment. I say this because I'm obviously not good enough to dispense with those things. I believe 15 minutes of hand holding beforehand would have changed the course of my night completely. Oh well, not a bad start, I suppose, but it was emotionally trying.
-Xen
 

PrettyDecent

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Mar 2, 2013
Messages
865
An educational read, here. Congrats on getting as far as you did! Wish I could give advice. Will keep following, good luck!
 

Xen

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
11
Thanks! I see you started a journal as well, good luck with the assignment. I think I'll try and start that next week, after midterms are done...I realize that I need to get a lot more experience, and need to meet a lot more women to make that happen.
 
you miss 100% of the shots you don't take

Tyme2k

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
386
KINO! You must practice, make it part of you man.

Something for you to try that can diffuse awkward situations is voicing the awkwardness. Some times people may not know they are acting tense, they are thinking about a lot of things. It can be your job to make them relax.

When she was sitting there tense in your apartment, you could say, "You look tense, relax.." smooth soft yet strong tone. Then give her something else to focus on. Here look at this.. Let me put on some music.. Would you like a drink?

You did offer a drink, but froze the wine. The key here is to stay calm and frame the situation in a positive light. Don't react in a negative way or feel "Stupid" you were being smart trying to cool the wine, but you obviously got busy. Don't explain, find it amusing and move on. Reframe example "alcohol sucks anyway it accelerates the aging process"(credit Julien RSD) "Actually, I think we should be sober, I don't want you taking advantage of me ;D"

In my most recent LR I had a crappy situation, but I still succeeded in the close because I did not react. I stayed calm and led until the outcome desired was reached. Same thing with getting lost, someone here didn't react well and it was probably the main attraction killer for the date. We are human we make mistakes, but being men we have to lead and be the strong ones. We cant react and act unsure even if maybe the situation appears like we may be. We must pull through and show we can give our woman everything she needs in a man.
 

nino

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
126
Xen said:
Well, I got the date well set up. We'll go out for dinner tomorrow, then I'll try to get her back to my apartment. I plan to avoid touching her too much during the evening, then go for a kiss with eye contact soon after bringing her back to my place, and escalate from there. Hopefully my relative inexperience won't cause me to fuck this up...

I think this is a mistake. You can't avoid touching her and then expect her to let you go for a kiss. You build a connection through touch! Make it a habit to touch the girl throughout the conversation, be it her hand, her shoulders or whatever. Don't do so "accidentally", make it clear it's natural for you to literally be in touch with someone.
 

Xen

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
11
Yeah, it was definitely a mistake...one of chase's articles said something about not having to touch a girl at all before the kiss if you have the right vibe, and I was trying to emulate that. Obviously that was a bad idea, like running before you can walk-next time I definitely need to get a lot of touching in.
 

Tyme2k

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
386
one of chase's articles said something

It's definitely great to research and have knowledge, but when you're in field you need to drop all the stuff in your head and just flow. Every bit of game you read about is not set in stone, everything and anything is possible. There are major things that need to happen in every interaction, Kino, leading, and your fundamentals. You should always have a goal in mind and move towards it. If it's sex then you need to escalate towards if you aren't comfortable touching her, you wont be comfortable kissing her, and you wont be comfortable fucking her.
 

Xen

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
11
Yeah, hopefully next time will be better!
Midterm week is over, so it's time to follow through and do the newbie challenge. Tomorrow will be day 1, which seems a simple enough scouting mission. I expect that the day where I have to go with the direct opener and ask girls if they're single will give me a lot of trouble eventually, but it should be a great learning experience.
 

PrettyDecent

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Mar 2, 2013
Messages
865
Xen said:
Tomorrow will be day 1, which seems a simple enough scouting mission. I expect that the day where I have to go with the direct opener and ask girls if they're single will give me a lot of trouble eventually, but it should be a great learning experience.

Hey man, good luck! By the time you hit day 6 (especially if you are doing the assignment in 10 consecutive days), the anxiety of approaching pretty much drops. It's a truly freeing feeling.
 

Xen

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
11
I didn't get to visit all the places I wanted to because of rain.

So, I'll finish day 1 tomorrow.

I have two places so far: the campus gym and track, and public transportation.

Tomorrow I want to go visit the public library, and take a trip down to the mall. Also, since I have some free time and don't have to wake up early, I might go to a nightclub. Paying a cover charge is ok-that's what usually turns me off from clubs, but $5/$10 really isn't a big deal.
 

Xen

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
11
Whew, it's ben a while. Hard to admit it, but I never even got past day 2 of the regimen; I did get a girlfriend though, which has been nice. She's leaving the US end of this month though, so I'll be single again soon enough.
Actually that's a good thing; I like her a lot, but she's very religious and I still can't get her to have sex with me-saving herself for marriage. I thought it was just a matter of time originally, but realize I won't succeed at this point-it's ok, but pretty disappointing. In any case the relationship has been good for both of us, since it's my first real one and I've learned a lot--and she had never even kissed anyone before dating me, and is enthusiastic about that now, at least.
 
Top