Advice about dealing with male friend -- NEXT or try to help?

[ray_zorse]

hey guys,

It has been a while since I asked for advice on these boards. Hopefully y'all will have some insights here.

As a background, whilst I've previously achieved moderate success with girls, cold approach, dating and process... this hasn't really been replicated in the area of social circle and particularly male friends. I did a little work on developing my social circle when I was on the postgraduate committee and other uni activities, this has fallen by the wayside and in any case I tended to meet and hit it off with women more than men at that time.

That's not to say I don't value male companionship, I do, very much. However the compatibility of values and interests is important, it's also important in dating but at least in dating you also have the physical side or even just the enjoyment of flirting and teasing to fall back on.

And, I have never figured out if cold approach works with guys and if so how. So to summarize the issue, I am picking male friends from a pretty small pool and I am fairly reluctant to put in effort unless the person seems like they would be a particularly valuable friend... I have not practiced techniques for this and often don't suggest things like meeting for coffee because it feels uncomfortable, even though consciously I know I should. I'm also busy and for the most part happy to be a loner.

So that is the background and why I have few male friends. Now to the question.

I have maintained a friendship with a guy I call the G-man, he appears in my journal occasionally, we have gone to clubs a fair bit back in the day, and done some pickup-y stuff together, although he isn't really interested in pickup. He has some slightly lame attitudes and behaviours around women which he would do well to correct, but on the other hand women find him quite attractive and he is friendly, confident and so on. We've also done plenty normal friend stuff such as day trips, dinners etc, often including various mutual friends.

So the problem I had with G-man is that he would be unavailable for months at a time, he said he was busy with studies and broke etc. So I would get sick of inviting him to stuff and more or less give up. Since he graduated things seemed to improve but he developed a habit of making arrangements and then breaking them on the day. I wish I had spoken up earlier and asserted myself (i.e. say what he had done that offended me and why) instead of just being a pushover and hoping the problem would go away. But I put up with it for far too long.

A particularly egregious case occurred a month or two back where we set up a Saturday evening hangout a week earlier (he has been working in another city and coming back every 2-3 weeks to finalize arrangements about various things)... then he ghosted as he often does when I texted him that morning to confirm time and suggest a BBQ dinner... no contact till 7pm when he texted me "hey, we did a long hike and so tired, lets hang out tomorrow"... this really aggravated me because (a) I didn't believe he hadn't received my morning text, nobody fails to check their phone all day (b) I believe he did not reply in order to keep his options open (c) although he had a good excuse he should have anticipated he'd be tired and not made an unrealistic schedule (d) he suggested the hangout in the first place (e) it was part of a long pattern of similar excuses, ghosting and so on.

So I decided NEXT. I did not reply and he's sent me the usual sort of "hey man, haven't heard from you in a bit, lets catch up" sort of messages every few weeks which I also ignored. Eventually though, I decided that I would man up and tell him the issue, though it is hard for me.

I haven't been sure what to say. I don't think there is any point setting up further catchups when they are likely to be cancelled on the day, or what is worse, converted into a quick hello on the way to something else. It might not seem like I value my time but I do. When I reserve it for someone else that corresponds to significant work or family time that I miss out on, and it makes me feel foolish to spend a Saturday not even being able to tell my partner whether arrangements that I committed to the week before are going ahead. Normally I would simply cut that sort of thing out of my life, but I decided to tell you, not out of bitterness but out of respect since we have had many good times in the past

In the above I took the approach of not criticizing or accusing directly, but emphasizing how his behaviour made me feel. I was trying to be gentle since I rarely criticize and people often over react when I do.

This was his reply.

I am sorry if you feel this way. It has become difficult ever since I moved to [CITY] as when I come back, I spend most of my time in sustaining my long distance relationship with [NAME] (my housemate). We have been through some rough times for the past few months. I wanted to catch up to tell you all about it, I am marrying her this February.
Anyways, I appreciate you letting me know what you feel. I will always cherish the good memories with you. Wish you, [LETICIA'S NAME] and kids all the happiness.

He also sent me a photo of us captioned "this is for the good times".

So, I basically decided NEXT. That is not an apology, it is an IF-pology. I'm sorry if YOU feel this way. Fuck that.

But what really threw me for a loop is this housemate thing. I mean like WTF I didn't even know he had a girlfriend. He's always played his cards a bit close to the chest. He has been known to turn down 5s and 6s who wanted to go home with him (most recently a Bangladeshi woman we picked up outside a club and brought back to mine with her friend, also other times). I figured either he was too busy with his studies to have a girlfriend, or was super fussy or maybe even gay?

So yeah this is really weird. I slightly know the girl concerned and while she is friendly enough I did not think she was anything special. She is overweight and would not be that attractive even if she lost weight. I guess she is educated at least (postgrad student)... well she must have a fabulous personality was my initial reaction.

But what if she is cluster B? When people suddenly announce they are getting married it is a gigantic red flag to me. The narcissist or other cluster B relies on generating superlative emotions as part of the seduction or capturing process... I know with my extensive experience of cluster B (as a recovering codependent).

I am tempted to give him a bit of tough love as I feel it would to some extent explain his past behaviour if a cluster B has got her hooks into him. I cannot say exactly why I feel this but I just feel this won't end well. It is WAY premature for a young attractive guy like him to be settling for the best he can get, and I feel she may have deliberately tried to isolate him from friends who would be likely to point this out.

OTOH people in love never listen so it is pointless and I also have my own boundaries and health to consider.

Advice?

cheers, Ray

 

[Eliasmusic]

Yo bro! Long post... Let me weigh in with some thoughts.... I'm not of the child-bearing age yet, so we're not exactly in the same situation socially, but yea I'd say that a great deal more honesty and openness would work wonders for relationships such as this one. Again, maybe this is just me being a lot younger than you, but it really seems like you are viewing male friends in the same way as guys tend to view chicks- in a very clinical transactional manner... You know, what can I obtain from this person. I'm a firm believer in achieving an emotional state that is more conducive to spontaneous and un-calculated connection. Seriously, I was a slow learner with chicks in my teen years and had to completely learn through repetitive practice how to actively create relationships and how to behave in such a way that people enjoy my company etc, and I've worked a couple of sales jobs before, so I know the power of being able to consciously lead relationships in certain directions. However, I think this rational, pragmatic (Machiavellian?) attitude needs to be tempered with a certain benevolence and presence. The type that chicks seem to have more naturally, and guys need to work for a bit more. If you've ever been to the Netherlands and had a look at the guys, you will know what I mean by Machiavellian haha.

So... How to develop this spontaneous emotional side so-to-speak: Meditation and occasional drug use is my preferred method.

And, I have never figured out if cold approach works with guys and if so how.

Re this- This will usually not work as masculine on masculine interaction tends to follow this principle- Each participant has their own goals and if another participant happens to have the same goal they will help each other to work towards this - basically perpetual wing-manning. As compared to feminine interaction which is essentially completely focussed upon the interaction not the activity they are doing. Let me give an example- Guys will go out (to revolver haha) clubbing in a group because they know that they are more likely to pick up chicks if they are not alone. Girls on the other hand will meet up purely to interact with each other- they don't need an activity or a goal. They will go for coffee together just to chat. This can give an interesting insight into hanging with women... They would often prefer interact with you purely and go deep rather than achieve something or do an activity together. Point being guys don't wanna go for coffee, they wanna achieve something with you.

So I'm a huge David Deida fan, give him a read if you haven't already, but he would say something along the lines of- if you're living to the fullest and properly chasing down goals, then you'd be naturally meeting mates of the right qualities along the way.

Re G-man: I wouldn't have cut him off honestly, the ignoring him was pre harsh. I mean he was a bit of a dick, but hey that might just be him- flakey unreliable etc, and possibly if you had've opened up/hardened up and told him what the fuck was up and dealt with this earlier it might have been easily sorted out. Tough love sounds potentially like a good fucken idea if bridges aren't already burnt. I know for a fact the friends that I appreciate are those who fucking tell me how it is, even when it is uncomfortable, challenging and threatening when they do so. True about the love haha.

Elias

 

[Fuck This]

This article really resonated with me...

It may be applied to our relationships with family and women even. Focus on the good points and don't try to change the ones that bug you. Spend time withthem that is pleasureable for both of you....Don't fight what doesn't work.

It is common for men to lose contact with their buddies when they go monogamous. Your buddy has decided on a path and your best bet is to encourage him and wish him the best. This also happens when your couples friends have their first Baby. They become hermits. It just happens.

 

[ray_zorse]

Thanks for the advice dudes.

Elias: Yes it does sound transactional but... I basically do what comes naturally, the things I said in my post are my attempt to break down the WHY that doing what comes naturally does not result in a large circle of male friends for me. Well I'm not complaining, as I basically like my life and if I didn't I would act (I am starting to get together a men's basketball team for season beginning 20 Jan).

And yes nothing says bonding like dropping acid with someone, although I do not do that stuff anymore. I am sure you can understand with many commitments and 7 people to support there is a bit of a mindset shift. I can't imagine having the money or time for such activities, though at one time the rave scene was a big part of my life. I'm much more career/achievement focused now.

Both: I think I have had unrealistic expectations about what male friendship involves, based on my being able to connect deeply (some of the time) with partner and women I have dated. Are women just better at connecting? I also had close (non sexual) friendships with men in the past, but I may have to re-evaluate those in the light of (a) some of them being narcissists and (b) many occurring in long droughts between women.

So it seems correct that I need to look for less deep friendships with men based on shared interests, and also to not look for a "one size fits all" friendship and instead treat each male friend including G-man on his merits.

Fuck This: I agree that men tend to be less available when they partner up. I would certainly adjust my expectations in light of this. But (a) it seems weak and pussy whipped when he withdraws completely or nearly completely, in this case it only applies to meetings in person but still, (b) I was not told, so how could I adjust expectations? (c) the being unavailable is not really the issue, I was used to that anyway, the issue is the keeping me hanging and occupying time on my schedule without a true commitment on his part, and PARTICULARLY the ghosting/ignoring text messages/unreasonably late replies which in my opinion is a NEXTable offence.

Anyway, I am just gonna do nothing for a while and see what happens. In my opinion the if-pology is not deserving of a response, and if he wants to belatedly tell me about his relationship then I guess he can do it by text, as I said (and consistent with article linked by Fuck This), I am not keen to block out further time for him in my schedule unless convinced something has changed.

Finally, I was probably a bit extreme in my characterizing her as potentially cluster B, more likely he just did not see fit to confide in me earlier (and he might be a bit pussy whipped too). While I feel a bit butt-hurt by this, it isn't a good reason to jump to conclusions about his situation.

cheers, Ray

 

[Chase]

Ray,

That's uncool behavior by him, yes.

Flakey friends in general don't tend to make the best friends. Women can be flakey, before you've shagged/converted them. Aside from that, my personal policy is "no flakey people."

we set up a Saturday evening hangout a week earlier (he has been working in another city and coming back every 2-3 weeks to finalize arrangements about various things)... then he ghosted as he often does when I texted him that morning to confirm time and suggest a BBQ dinner... no contact till 7pm when he texted me "hey, we did a long hike and so tired, lets hang out tomorrow"...

I'd have cut off in that scenario too.

There are three ways to handle that scenario, if you're him:

1.) "I'm really tired, but I made an appointment and do not want to inconvenience my friend, so I'll go"
2.) "I'm really tired, so I'm going to ask him if he wants to change to tomorrow, my treat; or if not, I will dress and come out"
3.) "I'm really tired, dinner with this guy can wait, I'm sure he'll be free tomorrow as well and I'm not inconveniencing him any"

As soon as #3 happens, personally I just take this as a sign of "either doesn't respect me, or is totally disorganized / doesn't prize his time much and assumes others are the same."

Even if he'd be totally cool if someone did that to him too (some people are... they just are not very busy and don't care if you flake on them and assume you won't care if they flake on you), if you're a busy guy who needs to not be dealing with flakes and cancellations, you can't be friends with someone like this.

So, I basically decided NEXT. That is not an apology, it is an IF-pology. I'm sorry if YOU feel this way. Fuck that.

Agreed.

He's probably just someone who doesn't value time a lot -- his or others'.

And he got that message from you and was like 'What a weird way to overreact. But okay, if you feel that way I guess."

The alternative with someone like this is to make it VERY, VERY CLEAR why your time is so precious and why, even if he's cool if you flake/ghost on him, it is NOT okay for the alternative, and if the two of you will continue to hang out he needs to understand that and plan around it first.

Some people can get it and adapt: "I'd better not plan anything with Ray unless I'm certain I can make it", and the flaking goes way down. Others can't and after a trial period where they keep doing it you just need to stop hanging with them.

But what if she is cluster B? When people suddenly announce they are getting married it is a gigantic red flag to me. The narcissist or other cluster B relies on generating superlative emotions as part of the seduction or capturing process... I know with my extensive experience of cluster B (as a recovering codependent).

Another alternative is he may not consider you as close a friend as you consider him.

I had a friend like this. He'd be flakey, not tell me about girlfriends until he'd be with them for a long time... I thought it was the weirdest thing.

Eventually he started making snippy/judgmental comments to me, and I realized he had some kind of resentment toward me or was trying to social ladder climb over me. And decided he viewed me more as a social competitor than as a friend. It was funky. Kinda sad.

I don't know a ton about your relationship with this cat... maybe he viewed you principally as a going out buddy or something like that. Meanwhile you were viewing him as a true blue friend. Lots of reasons people can view their friendships differently from one another.

On the "maybe she's cluster b" part... it's next to impossible to pull a guy out of a relationship like that, ESPECIALLY when it's far along (getting married), and especially especially when you're not close enough to him that he's confiding to you, opening up about all this stuff, etc.

It doesn't sound like he's coming to you with his heart on his sleeve with questions about why his finacée causes so many problems in his life.

I'd just leave it alone. If he's picked wrong, let him take his bumps and bruises.

It is WAY premature for a young attractive guy like him to be settling for the best he can get, and I feel she may have deliberately tried to isolate him from friends who would be likely to point this out.

Again -- maybe. But you don't know the whole (or any of the, from the sound of it) story.

Sounds to me like he made the oldest mistake in the book -- shagging the girl you live with.

Women have a heinous disadvantage in that department... they're really good about not shagging with male housemates they don't want to husband-up, whereas men will shag all kinds of female housemates they objectively wouldn't want to wife up, but proximity + horniness puts them on the road to holy matrimony with these chicks.

Once a guy is shagging his housemate, it's hard to get away. I've seen a lot of good soldiers get taken down that way.

Chase

 

[nolimits]

I don't know a ton about your relationship with this cat... maybe he viewed you principally as a going out buddy or something like that. Meanwhile you were viewing him as a true blue friend. Lots of reasons people can view their friendships differently from one another.

Interesting stuff here man.

I would love for you to cover friendships with other men more in depth actually.

to me that’s a pillar of a great social life and something that can help you with girls as well.

I consider myself a high value guy who’s good with girls , has good conversational skill and a good business he’s built - which does not mean I can’t improve, quite the opposite. Just that I have trouble thinking my problem is value.

but I do struggle with friendships and have a doubt I am not being respected.

How selective should you be with your friends ? How do you build abundance ?

I have about 8-9 people i consider pretty cool that I can go out with 1-2 a month ( some I can see 1-2 a week some I can see once every 2 months).

This feeling that I am more invested in the friendship than they are…

…and that I would like to see them more than they would like to see me bothers the fuck out of me.

I hate this feeling of neediness almost as much as I hated not having abundance with girls.

At the time i discovered that if I hit the streets and bars i only needed 10-20 approaches to bang a cute girl … and that feeling disappeared.


So my question isn’t only how to make new friends but rather, why aren’t all these guys as invested as I am in our ‘ friendship ‘ ?

Is that a respect and value problem ? Or did I target people who don’t go out as much.

I know it’s hard to give an answer without me providing the whole context but let’s say most of my potential friends Accept 35% - 50% of my invitations - who are usually done 2 days prior. Sometimes the same day.

What bothers me is that I have a feeling that if I did not invite these guys out, they would not invite me. Or they would but way less often than I invite them.

Do you recommend keeping people who don’t invite you out in your life ? I’m not sure this is a self esteem booster, even if they accept some invitations.

Keep in mind I organized a birthday party a few weeks ago and all of them came , vibed between them, brought me gifts. Etc.

But I still feel somewhat needy and unsatisfied .


Where do I find better friends ? I know you recommend meetups in some articles but in France people who go there are pretty creepy.

And it takes too much time for little return on the investment.

There are club that cost 10k to join, so that could be an option on the long term, but not on the short one.

A solution I’ve dabbled with is to build a harem of friends where you have 20 people whom you can text last minute and kind of use these people in a somehow opportunistic way. Exactly like Ricardus girls Harem.

I’d rather be the one who is on the offense than being needy.

I don’t know if these friends I have are always going out when I’m not with them but have a feeling that most of them have a less urgent need to socialize then I do. Some have girlfriends etx

What do you think man ?


And guys, if someone was in a similar situation and solved It feel free to share a few tips that helped you.

I receive a lot of compliments on my personality from my clients and have banged a boat load of girls for being 30, so am not sold on the idea that the problem is me.

But am open to make changes

 

[Searcher]

Interesting stuff here man.

I would love for you to cover friendships with other men more in depth actually.

to me that’s a pillar of a great social life and something that can help you with girls as well.

I consider myself a high value guy who’s good with girls , has good conversational skill and a good business he’s built - which does not mean I can’t improve, quite the opposite. Just that I have trouble thinking my problem is value.

but I do struggle with friendships and have a doubt I am not being respected.

How selective should you be with your friends ? How do you build abundance ?

I have about 8-9 people i consider pretty cool that I can go out with 1-2 a month ( some I can see 1-2 a week some I can see once every 2 months).

This feeling that I am more invested in the friendship than they are…

…and that I would like to see them more than they would like to see me bothers the fuck out of me.

I hate this feeling of neediness almost as much as I hated not having abundance with girls.

At the time i discovered that if I hit the streets and bars i only needed 10-20 approaches to bang a cute girl … and that feeling disappeared.


So my question isn’t only how to make new friends but rather, why aren’t all these guys as invested as I am in our ‘ friendship ‘ ?

Is that a respect and value problem ? Or did I target people who don’t go out as much.

I know it’s hard to give an answer without me providing the whole context but let’s say most of my potential friends Accept 35% - 50% of my invitations - who are usually done 2 days prior. Sometimes the same day.

What bothers me is that I have a feeling that if I did not invite these guys out, they would not invite me. Or they would but way less often than I invite them.

Do you recommend keeping people who don’t invite you out in your life ? I’m not sure this is a self esteem booster, even if they accept some invitations.

Keep in mind I organized a birthday party a few weeks ago and all of them came , vibed between them, brought me gifts. Etc.

But I still feel somewhat needy and unsatisfied .


Where do I find better friends ? I know you recommend meetups in some articles but in France people who go there are pretty creepy.

And it takes too much time for little return on the investment.

There are club that cost 10k to join, so that could be an option on the long term, but not on the short one.

A solution I’ve dabbled with is to build a harem of friends where you have 20 people whom you can text last minute and kind of use these people in a somehow opportunistic way. Exactly like Ricardus girls Harem.

I’d rather be the one who is on the offense than being needy.

I don’t know if these friends I have are always going out when I’m not with them but have a feeling that most of them have a less urgent need to socialize then I do. Some have girlfriends etx

What do you think man ?


And guys, if someone was in a similar situation and solved It feel free to share a few tips that helped you.

I receive a lot of compliments on my personality from my clients and have banged a boat load of girls for being 30, so am not sold on the idea that the problem is me.

But am open to make changes

I would say most men do not value male friendships as much as fun with women.

Are their forums or websites that help in cultivating male friendships as much as picking up women? No. This should show how we don't value such friendships much.


There are forums helping in improving business, art but it doesn't have the whole making connection for the sake of connection, it has an end goal in improving your business, hobby, etc.

Also as another poster pointed out quite well male friendships rely on doing activities together so if not one guy then another guy doesn't make much difference.

 

[DarkKnight]

Are their forums or websites that help in cultivating male friendships as much as picking up women? No. This should show how we don't value such friendships much.

No, this only shows that cultivating friendships with men is much easier than picking up women.

 

[Searcher]

No, this only shows that cultivating friendships with men is much easier than picking up women.

That is exactly why male friendships are not very valuable. Most male friends can be replaced easier than a amazing hot girl.

I don't know about you but all my life I would consider only a handful of guys as someone close and with whom I can have a heart to heart interaction with.

Almost everyone else are "Activity buddies" as in gym buddy, I play soccer on weekends buddy, business buddy, etc

 

[DarkKnight]

That is exactly why male friendships are not very valuable.

Perhaps we just value this things differently. I have some solid friends who are like brothers to me and thus very valuable. Ironically I believe these cool guys with who I share massive history are more difficult to replace than girls.

I believe that guys who are very thirsty in general easily ditch their friends for girls. Because they are thirsty. I do at times when a girl is around short circuit my friends when I notice that there is an escalation window, but I clarify this later on. Also my friends know what I am about.

Don't know man. Male friends "not very valuable".. Seems like a bleak existence to me. Despite that I am definitely an einzelgänger .

 

[Searcher]

Perhaps we just value this things differently. I have some solid friends who are like brothers to me and thus very valuable. Ironically I believe these cool guys with who I share massive history are more difficult to replace than girls.

I did say that I only have a few people I rather have a heart to heart conversation with and have a close bond in the previous post.

The key word is "few". You might have many other friends or buddies other than these people who you can replace easy. That is what I am talking about.

The hierarchy is "few really close male ones" and Women then after comes the "friends/activity partners" who you don't have much of a close bond with.

So if there is a competition for a girl with my few Really close friends, I will have a discussion with them regarding that.

If the competition for the girl is with those many replaceable friends then I give importance to shagging the girl more than them, it's game on.

 

[Chase]

@nolimits,

I think that'd make for an interesting topic, yeah.

A lot of guys you will probably want to actually be friends with (e.g., high value guys with stuff going on) tend to be flakey or have their own objectives that can make them difficult to form good bonds with.

Some of them you can do it with enough time and persistence. Some of them you simply never will, because their brains aren't wired that way (e.g., they may be status-focused guys who only want lower status kiss-ups and higher status guys they are kissing up to around, without much use for guys at / around their level who aren't either obviously superior to them or obviously sucking up to them).

Anyway... I'll see about doing an article on it.

Chase

 

[nolimits]

Thanks man.

 

[nolimits]

Anyway... I'll see about doing an article on it.

Hey @Chase ,

Read the article on friends and really enjoyed it.

I now value availability in friends as a quality as well, because an available friend who's a 7/10 is better than one you are forced to chase over who's a 9/10 value.

We could even try to quantify the whole friend acquisition game further by trying to figure out, how many friends should you pursue at once, how long to wait before you give up etc..

But lately I started flirting with another idea which is, maybe i should add another girl to my rotation in order to avoid being alone at night so often.

I did not obsess over this whole friend making thing that much when I had a rotation of 3 girls and 5 nights out of seven I met girls.

I am an entrepreneur and don't have an office so when I'm not with clients I spend most of my days alone...

... and I am an extrovert who doesn't like staying alone that much.

When I find myself alone at night I'm like, why the fuck am I doing this ?

I should just see my girlfriend a little more often or simply get a second and a third gf, instead of obsessing with making new friends.

I think I was subconsciusly afraid of not having time to be reactive for invitations by potential friends, in the event that most of my evening were filled up by girls, but frankly, I don't like having to be last minute reactive in the hope I'll maybe turn an acquaintance into a friend.

I'd rather see a girl that night than beg for a friend to see me.

I (feel like I) am chasing over all of these guys whereas maybe I should just set up 2 dinners with friends a week, and as you said in the article of course, seize new leads whenever they show up, and prioritize my girls and my life over this whole friend goal.

If only for the fact that leads, in terms of friends, aren't something I create actively. It's not like I street approached them like girls lol
I live my live and sometimes some lead show up.



What do you think ?

Also, do you think making friends get harder past a certain age ?

I'm talking once you are done with college and everything... is making friends at 30 harder than making friends at 50 or, because people still need to socialize, it is more or less the same ?

 

[Chase]

@nolimits,

Glad you liked the article.

Adding another girl to stave off loneliness works.

You might also want to try renting a hot seat office in a WeWork or similar entrepreneur office setting and socializing with the various other entrepreneurs there, or attending young professionals meetings, Chamber of Commerce meetings, and so on, and seeing who you can't meet. You might find you stumble on some worthwhile new friend candidates that way... and either way you're talking to people and getting that extrovert energy.

Also, do you think making friends get harder past a certain age ?

I'm talking once you are done with college and everything... is making friends at 30 harder than making friends at 50 or, because people still need to socialize, it is more or less the same ?

I'm probably not the best once to answer this, since I didn't have friends between around age 12 until my early 20s or so. Then after that I had to spend years developing my social skills. So I didn't really reach a point where I was good at making new friends until I was in my mid-to-late 20s.

I also haven't been 50 (still a decade away from that) so a little hard for me to compare with there too.

I can tell you around age 30 people start settling into careers and having children and that takes them off the social scene. People who aren't married get into long-term relationships they hope will lead to marriage, and they drop off the social scene too. So you do reach an age where old friends become less active in your life and you need to replace them with new ones if you aim to still be going out and socializing as much.

I have noticed that around 45 to 50 or so some segment of people starts going out a lot more, once their kids are old enough to be in high school or college, and their money problems are all settled -- cars are paid off, mortgage is paid or mostly paid, debts are paid. They've got more time and they're not as focused on career as they were when building their earlier careers; their niche is carved out, and now they're starting to enjoy life a bit more.

So there's probably a window in there where friend-making gets harder as a lot of people knuckle down on marriage and children and career, only for it to open up again later once those things are all well-handled.

Chase