FR+ AFC Part II*

[AFCnoob]

*note: all pre-GC interactions will have a * in the title

Summary: Bumped into a girl at the bar, she seemed to like me--tried to kiss her, and she did not approve.

[Betty] American [Rating: objective 6/subjective 5][Age: @25](closed)

Open: accidental
I leaned back and bumped into a girl at the bar. "You just bumbped into that girl!" my friend said, half joking.
"How do you know she didn't like it?" I said, glancing back at [Betty]. My friend gave me an "are you kidding me?" look, but [Betty] smiled and said "Yeah, how do you know I didn't like it? We started talking. [Betty] was a bit too social, she dindn't fully engage me, but took me to a table and introduced me around to her friends.

Move: rough/accidental
I didn't actually know what a move was, I just wanted to talk to [Betty] alone, but she seemed busy chatting it up with her friends, so I broke circle (didn't know not to) and went outside hoping she would follow later, and she did.

Escalation: fail (rushed)
[Betty] and I sat on a ledge outside the bar and talked a bit, getting to know each other, but I just started staring at her lips. She noticed and gave me (what I thought was) a warm smile, so I leaned in and kissed her. Then she got livid.

Her: [standing and striking an "offended" pose] "You just met me, and you try to kiss me?"

I didn't think she was actually angry--she hadn't pulled away during the kiss. I figured she was just trying to slow things down to her pace, so I listened to her rant. I apologized, and we had a few more words, then she went back inside.

Close: fail--had no plans to close

I texted [Betty] a few times over the next couple weeks, but she was always busy with something or other. I finally got the hint and stopped texting her. If I hadn't put my foot in it with the rushed escalation, text-stalking her was certainly the nail in my coffin.

[Interaction Rating]: 5
To paraphrase something I read somewhere on the blog, "if you're having a problem now, it's because of something you did (or didn't do) before". The failed escalation really drove this point home. Also, in retrospect, I should have read [Betty]'s actual attraction better, she said she was quite attracted to me, but didn't behave that way at all. Oh well, live and learn.

 

[Trilogy]

Re: FR+ AFC Part II*

I think you played this rather well, including breaking circle and getting her to follow you outside, that's one way to move a girl and get her chasing you as well. I Don't think you should have apologized for the kiss, it was only a kiss, and it may have been read as some kind of weakness. Unless you were going for the 'humble guy' play in order to reset the interaction. I've used this with some measure of success until they calm down, at which point I quickly switch back into banter or rapport mode and give them a bit of emotional connection to latch on to.

 

[AFCnoob]

Re: FR+ AFC Part II*

In retrospect, she was definitely in slow down/keep around/feel out mode, and wasn't immediately attracted to me that much. I also did a lot of wrong thing by letting her be in charge of the interaction a lot, and accepting a lot of her frames (I didn't go into this in the post). But again, I was dumb, and in my AFC mode of letting the woman drive the interaction (gotta keep her happy to make sure she likes me!).

Good input though, I like what you said about "resetting" the interaction. I used to think things were pretty much over if I somehow managed to shoot myself in the foot, but it seems that if the girl is at least a little into you, you get some leeway, and you can "start again", although it does weaken your stance a little bit regardless. Good stuff.

 

[MonsieurLabrie]

*note: all pre-GC interactions will have a * in the title

Summary: Bumped into a girl at the bar, she seemed to like me--tried to kiss her, and she did not approve.

Kissing in a bar is usually not a good idea, but for the sake of learning, it can be fun.

[Betty] American [Rating: objective 6/subjective 5][Age: @25](closed)

Open: accidental
I leaned back and bumped into a girl at the bar. "You just bumbped into that girl!" my friend said, half joking.
"How do you know she didn't like it?" I said, glancing back at [Betty]. My friend gave me an "are you kidding me?" look, but [Betty] smiled and said "Yeah, how do you know I didn't like it? We started talking. [Betty] was a bit too social, she dindn't fully engage me, but took me to a table and introduced me around to her friends.

From your friend's comment and the fact that the girl didn't engage you one to one immediately, I suspect that your main concern now should be your fundamentals. These sort of things just don't happen when you have your fundamentals handled.

Move: rough/accidental
I didn't actually know what a move was, I just wanted to talk to [Betty] alone, but she seemed busy chatting it up with her friends, so I broke circle (didn't know not to) and went outside hoping she would follow later, and she did.

Your willingness to eject from a situation that was going nowhere is probably what got her interested again.

Escalation: fail (rushed)
[Betty] and I sat on a ledge outside the bar and talked a bit, getting to know each other, but I just started staring at her lips. She noticed and gave me (what I thought was) a warm smile, so I leaned in and kissed her. Then she got livid.

This actually good. Do not think this was a huge mistake. You were alone with her and getting to know her. Moving in for the kiss wasn't necessary here. You could've just tried to extract her, and if it didn't work, grab her number and leave. But going for the kiss was totally fine.

Her: [standing and striking an "offended" pose] "You just met me, and you try to kiss me?"

I didn't think she was actually angry--she hadn't pulled away during the kiss. I figured she was just trying to slow things down to her pace, so I listened to her rant. I apologized, and we had a few more words, then she went back inside.

This was silliness on her part. You should've just laughed it out. There was no reason for her to get on her high horses. You could've teased her about it. Or just ignored. Apologizing was the worst move to do here. This was a congruence test, sort of. You didn't hold the frame of a dominant powerful man. That's why she left, not because of the kiss.

Close: fail--had no plans to close

I texted [Betty] a few times over the next couple weeks, but she was always busy with something or other. I finally got the hint and stopped texting her. If I hadn't put my foot in it with the rushed escalation, text-stalking her was certainly the nail in my coffin.

First, always have a plan to close.
Second, it wasn't the kiss that killed it for you, it's what you did after.
Third, never ever text stalk. If you send two text in a row without answer, leave at least a week between them. And the second should include something like "You must be very busy... etc.

[Interaction Rating]: 5
To paraphrase something I read somewhere on the blog, "if you're having a problem now, it's because of something you did (or didn't do) before". The failed escalation really drove this point home. Also, in retrospect, I should have read [Betty]'s actual attraction better, she said she was quite attracted to me, but didn't behave that way at all. Oh well, live and learn.

[/quote]

I'm sure she was quite attracted to you up until after the kiss. But she wasn't totally sure about you, and you convinced her you were not good enough by your actions.

Escalating when you're alone with a girl is never bad.
Allowing her to go backwards and slow things down is always bad. When she objects, just pause for a minute and then continue whatever you were doing. (Use judgement though, no rape)

Hope this clarifies things for you.
Michel

 

[AFCnoob]

@ MonsieurLabrie:

Wow, you've given me some great new perspectives on that interaction, I really appreciate it. I couldn't quite understand why [Betty] was talking angry, but didn't actually seem all that angry. Now I know. I also didn't know about "resetting", or just pausing and continuing with what I was doing. I never thought this could actually work, but it sure does. Thank you for the excellent advice, I certainly hope you'll weigh in on some of my future FR's as well.

I'm also still in my "bar kissing" phase. I only just recently read a post on why this is actually a bad tactic, but I still can't stop myself, even as I'm kicking myself. I'm sure I'll mature out of it though.

 

[MonsieurLabrie]

You're very welcome.

Also, understand that her reaction to the kiss might have been caused by social accountability. Her friends were in the bar and she may have been obligated to reject your kiss so she wouldn't be judged as easy. I highly suspect this is what happened, unless you were alone somewhere nobody could see you.

That's why its always better to go in this order:
1-Isolate to build comfort/deep dive/rapport/connection
2-Extract
3-Escalate when you're at your place or hers (or in the car/taxi)

 

[AFCnoob]

Duly noted and filed away for future use. Thanks again.