Am I looking for a unicorn?

[orkie123]

Today I wrote a long list of 'requirements' for me to want to get in a LTR.

Problem is, I feel that just 'have a low lay count' cancels out most girls I meet.

I travel and meet a lot of girls. This may be a bad sample size as maybe I need to go to smaller cities in conservative countries or start going to church, but I'm currently travelling eastern europe, and while the mentality is different, a lot of the girls have the same red flags as in western world.

For example, around 6 years ago I DG approached a girl while travelling and got her instagram. A few days ago we finally met up when I was in her country (EE). She also introduced me to 2 of her friends. All 3 of them were hot, very fun to be around, kind, intelligent and so on. But then I did my usual games where girls become comfortable to share sexual past and each one had some red flags I feel I couldnt ignore if I wanted to date them:

1) had 3 LTRs and got the vibe that's all her sexual partners. However, she cheated on the 1st guy with the 2nd, and on the 2nd with the current bf. All relationships were for at least 2-3 years. She was the one I got the best vibes about but its clear that even if I somehow managed to attract her, I would most likely be replaced just how all the other guys got replaced. Another red flag was that she kind of misses the 2nd guy, and said she would meet up with him at a moments notice. Apparently not sexually but lets be real.

2) Dated a married man significantly older than her in a position of power

3) Cheated on the guy she was dating with his good friend twice. Now she is still good friends platonically with both of them.

Honestly even the fact that they are so open to sharing these experiences with a guy they have only met once or twice without at least some justification "I was young and stupid and have learned my lesson" is kind of off putting. But I guess at least they seem to be honest.

Again, small sample size but Ive lived a good portion of my life in EE and I do think people exaggerate how "traditional" women are. There are more girls who are such but finding one isnt that much easier in my view. Or Im not going to the right places/doing the right things.

As for why I want a LTR - Ive realised I want a family and I dont want to be 40 when I have my first kid.

Some of the points on similar threads were - focus on getting layed and problems will sort themselves out. Well, I do get semi regular lays. About 1 new a month and some repeats there and there. Nothing amazing but these are becoming less and less fulfiling and more ego boosting.


Im still focussing on improving my SMV and will never stop even if in a LTR, but I do believe my biggest thing holding me back is how often I meet girls that are even close to meeting my requirements.


It's become a long thread but here are the requirements. Just to be fair, I think I meet all of these myself (apart from the number of lays but I can cut contact with girls like a switch when in a LTR if needed). Am I looking for a unicorn? Would you add/remove any to the list? Where/what should I do to meet more girls who are likely to have these qualities?

- Have the good vibes 'gene'. Mainly focuses on having a good time, doesnt let negative stuff affect her for too long. Knows what makes her happy.

- Is adventurous. Likes to go hiking, travel, do new things (try new sports, hobbies etc) and have at least a bit of a competitive spirit

- can make jokes with her and has a humorous side

- Is decently attractive and less than 6ft tall lol (dont like girls taller than me)

- is between 20 and 28

- have good communication. Ability to share problems, able to solve conflicts in a respectable manner. Does not hold grudges.

- Can connect emotionally

- Is kind and has nurturing tendecies

- is honest and able to build trust. Shows qualities and references that she is trustworhy and loyal.

- Does not lie and can own up to mistakes.

- Respects me and others and does not do things to undermine me, especially in public

- Is relatively organised and clean

- Does not overshare personal or family problems with others

- Is not good friends with exes or previous sexual partners.

- Will show references she will not put herself in situations where she may cheat - i.e. get too drunk while clubbing, going to other guys' houses

- good sex libido and not too prude, be adventurous enough to have sex in public, keep it exciting etc.

- Has at least 1 passion/goal/ambition that drives her. Doesnt need to be something serious. Just something that keeps her motivated in life. The passion can change or fiddle as long as she can somewhat quickly find something else to focus on.

- Can be independent and confident when she needs to be. Does not become clingy/needy


-Contributes to household. It doesnt have to be monetary, can be house upkeep, looking after kids, a side hustle, so long as she is doing something and contributing meaningfully.

- Can align with long-term goals on finances, living situation, big purchases priorities. I focus on building assets.

- Can follow my boundaries and apply her own in a healthy manner

- Is relatively frugal and not attracted too much to monetary things or paying for status things.

- Has a good level of intelligence/emotional intelligence and at least be able to handle basic life and problem solving.

- Has interests in something like reading or something that positively stimulates the mind

- To not be fixated on political or other movements.

- Has less than 10 intimate partners and understands the complications that can arise from too much promiscuity

- Does not have serious personality disorders, trauma etc

- Does not have history of cheating, or extremely risky sexual experiences

- no addictive tendencies

- does not spend all day on social media or care too much what people think or attention grabbing posts

- Is at least somewhat submissive and willing to be led.

- Doesnt have to be extrenely feminine but should still enjoy dressing up and taking care of herself, good hygiene etc

- Take care of herself and values her body. Doesnt need to go to gym but at least do some spotts to ensure she is not gaining weight.

- Values healthy habits. Doesnt smoke, doesnt do drugs, and doesnt eat takeaways every day. Enjoys healthy, home cooked meals with veggies etc.


- Isn't stuck to a location. Im flexible where we base ourselves, but she must not be 100% stuck to a city/area.

- wants kids

 

[Chase]

@orkie123,

Well...

1. Day gamed 6 years ago
2. Still unmarried today (I’m assuming was not 16 or 17 when you met her)
3. Friends presumably also her age, also still unmarried

IME any chick you meet who’s still unmarried half a decade after you first met her, unless she was in high school at the time, cannot fit into the “conservative chick” camp. If she was conservative she’d have a husband and a baby or a bun in the oven by now.

Nothing wrong with not being a conservative chick. But if that is what you are looking for, these chicks are not a match...

1) had 3 LTRs and got the vibe that's all her sexual partners.

Yeah, maybe. But those vibes are often wrong. Especially when the "vibe" just happens to match up with what you are hoping it will be.

Women are rarely forthcoming about their full portfolio right from the jump.

Am I looking for a unicorn? Would you add/remove any to the list?

On your requirements, keep in mind:

- Is adventurous. Likes to go hiking, travel, do new things (try new sports, hobbies etc) and have at least a bit of a competitive spirit

Adventurous = sensation-seeking.

Coincides with earlier first sex, more sexual experimentation. Higher number of sex partners. Typically a higher sex drive.

I like these girls myself too, but if you want 'em low count, you need to catch 'em young, and in a rather conservative culture or subculture.

- have good communication. Ability to share problems, able to solve conflicts in a respectable manner. Does not hold grudges.

Relatively enlightened.

- Does not lie and can own up to mistakes.

No lying at all? Highly enlightened.

(or if "lies sometimes but can't hold it and later fesses up" then we could say "relatively enlightened")

Generally speaking, the more enlightened, the rarer the find.

The more you may need to be looking specifically in spiritual places if you want to cut down on the work.

- Respects me and others and does not do things to undermine me, especially in public

So not prone to temperamental or mercurial behavior (which is one cause of occasional public outbursts).

Conflicts a bit with the sensation-seeking trait.

- Is relatively organised and clean

High in conscientiousness.

Might just be my experience but I have found high conscientiousness tends to come with more secretiveness/disingenuousness/desire to maintain more control/possessiveness.

- Has less than 10 intimate partners and understands the complications that can arise from too much promiscuity

That's actually a pretty liberal count. Checking the data for the survey we conducted at the end of 2022, among American women ages 20-28 (your desired age range), 466 of 527 (88.4%) reported 10 or fewer lifetime lovers.

If you want to smack dab to the middle of the range, for American girls 20-28, 359 of 527 (or 68.1%) report 2 or fewer lifetime lovers.

(that said, I am including married, engaged, and committed LTR women here too. If we filter for only single gals or gals with FWBs, we get only 170 of those gals ages 20-28... but 150 of them [88.3%] with 10 or fewer lifetime partners, and 108 of them [63.5%] with 2 or fewer lifetime partners)

Either way, if 10 is the upper limit, almost 9 out of 10 women you meet in that age range will meet your criteria there (unless you do a lot of club game / bar game / online).

And actually, if 10 is the upper limit, then forget what I said earlier about those chicks still being unmarried after 6 years not being conservative, because we are probably defining that differently... if your standards for sex partner count permits 90% of women, your standards for what constitutes 'conservative' is likely fairly broad as well... so your search may not be as challenging as you expect.

- Is at least somewhat submissive and willing to be led.

That may be a little difficult (though not impossible) to match up with the adventurousness/sensation-seeking/high-ish libido, which all tend to be associated with higher testosterone levels in women IME (which makes them more vivacious, but also more resistant to male leadership. You can still make them submit, it's just a lot more work and you have to keep making them submit again ).

- Doesnt have to be extrenely feminine but should still enjoy dressing up and taking care of herself, good hygiene etc

Again doesn't match up as well with the adventurousness/sensation-seeking.

But DOES match up well with conscientiousness.

Anyway, the rest of the stuff is doable in a one-girl package.

However, you do have some conflicting traits there where you are probably going to need to choose one or the other.

You might want to review my article on LTR characteristic tradeoffs:

8 Tradeoffs in Girls Men MUST Choose Between in LTRs

Choosing a partner for a long-term relationship presents tradeoffs. The more a girl is one thing, the less something else she may be. What will YOU choose? I’m a “have your cake and eat it too” type of guy. I do not like the idea of tradeoff much. If you’re having to make tradeoffs, maybe you...

www.girlschase.com

Also worth checking out:

The Unicorn Hunter

Perfect 10s, unicorns, what have you – do they even exist? In particular, we look at American girls, and if you can still find a good one. There’s a special kind of girl out there. This kind of girl is perfect. During the Pick Up Artist Era, she was known as the Perfect 10. Debates raged across...

www.girlschase.com

How to Screen for a Wife and Mother

Beyond dates and girlfriends, what should you look for in a wife? 6 things: genes, background, personality, beliefs, age, and life goals. Bit of a departure from our usual fare, but commenting on “Why Madonna/Whore is Intimately Linked with the West”, Jimbo asks: “What kind of girl and where to...

www.girlschase.com

Cheers,
Chase

 

[orkie123]

Thanks for the detailed answer chase, really appreciate it.

@orkie123,

Well...

1. Day gamed 6 years ago
2. Still unmarried today (I’m assuming was not 16 or 17 when you met her)
3. Friends presumably also her age, also still unmarried

IME any chick you meet who’s still unmarried half a decade after you first met her, unless she was in high school at the time, cannot fit into the “conservative chick” camp. If she was conservative she’d have a husband and a baby or a bun in the oven by now.

Nothing wrong with not being a conservative chick. But if that is what you are looking for, these chicks are not a match...



Yeah, maybe. But those vibes are often wrong. Especially when the "vibe" just happens to match up with what you are hoping it will be.

Women are rarely forthcoming about their full portfolio right from the jump.

Agreed. My poing with this story is im genuinely confused as to how to find what im looking for. My worry if I get into say conservative circles and religion is that she will not have the same adventure vibe as me.

I feel like im not that adventurous, but then when you compare to most people, there's few people that have travelled, done high adrenaline sports and met so many people as me. Im not looking for that level of adventurousness in a girl, im calming down myself. But if she isnt willing to wake up at 5am to go hike a volcano to see the sun rise when we are in Bali, thats a no from me .

On your requirements, keep in mind:


Adventurous = sensation-seeking.

Coincides with earlier first sex, more sexual experimentation. Higher number of sex partners. Typically a higher sex drive.

I like these girls myself too, but if you want 'em low count, you need to catch 'em young, and in a rather conservative culture or subculture.

So what would your suggestion be to increase my chances of getting such a gf? Im flexible in how I live my life and finding girls like this is become one of my biggest priorities.

I think i overemphasised how much certain qualities mean to me. I re-read the 3 articles you linked, and I think I have similar likes to you and probably less strict on some qualities.

But I dont find almost any of these girls. Im not saying they dont exist, but that what Im doing is not working and I need help to figure out what.

[



Relatively enlightened.



No lying at all? Highly enlightened.

(or if "lies sometimes but can't hold it and later fesses up" then we could say "relatively enlightened")

Generally speaking, the more enlightened, the rarer the find.

The more you may need to be looking specifically in spiritual places if you want to cut down on the work.



So not prone to temperamental or mercurial behavior (which is one cause of occasional public outbursts).

Conflicts a bit with the sensation-seeking trait.

It concerns me how bad people are at communicating in relationships. I wasnt amazing at the start of my first relationship, but when it came to problem solving, I found I was both able to articulate the root cause of problems and find solutions that worked for both of us. I was also able to teach my ex to communicate similarly too.

As for lies, I did mean no big lies or owns up to them in a timely manner. This was a major pain point with my ex where she would lie for no good reason. I dont know if she was pathological but to me it seemed so silly. I only do white lies or slight exagerration of stories that make them more fun/interesting and dont mind when others do those.

For respect, I dont like when girls cause drama in public as a weapon.

High in conscientiousness.

Might just be my experience but I have found high conscientiousness tends to come with more secretiveness/disingenuousness/desire to maintain more control/possessiveness.

Im not too fussed on this one. What I mean is I dont want the girl who leaves the pans out for weeks or misses her important appointments. I view this as being a functional human being but maybe im wrong haha.

That's actually a pretty liberal count. Checking the data for the survey we conducted at the end of 2022, among American women ages 20-28 (your desired age range), 466 of 527 (88.4%) reported 10 or fewer lifetime lovers.

If you want to smack dab to the middle of the range, for American girls 20-28, 359 of 527 (or 68.1%) report 2 or fewer lifetime lovers.

(that said, I am including married, engaged, and committed LTR women here too. If we filter for only single gals or gals with FWBs, we get only 170 of those gals ages 20-28... but 150 of them [88.3%] with 10 or fewer lifetime partners, and 108 of them [63.5%] with 2 or fewer lifetime partners)

Either way, if 10 is the upper limit, almost 9 out of 10 women you meet in that age range will meet your criteria there (unless you do a lot of club game / bar game / online).

And actually, if 10 is the upper limit, then forget what I said earlier about those chicks still being unmarried after 6 years not being conservative, because we are probably defining that differently... if your standards for sex partner count permits 90% of women, your standards for what constitutes 'conservative' is likely fairly broad as well... so your search may not be as challenging as you expect.

I know 10 is quite high for some people but the only reason I care for count is because most girls seem to get at least 1 guy who was somewhat toxic to them that they will more or less never be able to resist.

That said, it does seem most girls will have a guy like that after a few sexual encounters.

I want to reduce my chance of cheating/divorce but maybe the only real way to identify this is if the lay count is 3 or lower...

That may be a little difficult (though not impossible) to match up with the adventurousness/sensation-seeking/high-ish libido, which all tend to be associated with higher testosterone levels in women IME (which makes them more vivacious, but also more resistant to male leadership. You can still make them submit, it's just a lot more work and you have to keep making them submit again ).



Again doesn't match up as well with the adventurousness/sensation-seeking.

But DOES match up well with conscientiousness.

Anyway, the rest of the stuff is doable in a one-girl package.

However, you do have some conflicting traits there where you are probably going to need to choose one or the other.

Cheers,
Chase

So what exactly is submisiveness? For me the important thing is that she doesnt rebel to the point of risking the relationship. I.e. travelling alone (other than for family/work) or with guy friends, deciding she will suddenly start clubbing or going out with unfavourable female friends..

I feel like my ex was a good mixture of independent and self aware to avoid most of these things, while also looking up to me and my long term goals.

I dont know if that counts as submisiveness.


Same with feminine. I dont care if she has her nails done or is always wearing dress with heels, but to put some effort some of the time. My ex put very little effort in her appearance but still would wear dresses, and feminine clothes.


In summary, the most important for me is good loyalty, trust, communication, fun and intelligent vibes, not risk taker and capable human being that looks good and likes to travel and do fun things while travelling including sex.

 

[Will_V]

Today I wrote a long list of 'requirements' for me to want to get in a LTR.

Problem is, I feel that just 'have a low lay count' cancels out most girls I meet.

I travel and meet a lot of girls. This may be a bad sample size as maybe I need to go to smaller cities in conservative countries or start going to church, but I'm currently travelling eastern europe, and while the mentality is different, a lot of the girls have the same red flags as in western world.

For example, around 6 years ago I DG approached a girl while travelling and got her instagram. A few days ago we finally met up when I was in her country (EE). She also introduced me to 2 of her friends. All 3 of them were hot, very fun to be around, kind, intelligent and so on. But then I did my usual games where girls become comfortable to share sexual past and each one had some red flags I feel I couldnt ignore if I wanted to date them:

1) had 3 LTRs and got the vibe that's all her sexual partners. However, she cheated on the 1st guy with the 2nd, and on the 2nd with the current bf. All relationships were for at least 2-3 years. She was the one I got the best vibes about but its clear that even if I somehow managed to attract her, I would most likely be replaced just how all the other guys got replaced. Another red flag was that she kind of misses the 2nd guy, and said she would meet up with him at a moments notice. Apparently not sexually but lets be real.

2) Dated a married man significantly older than her in a position of power

3) Cheated on the guy she was dating with his good friend twice. Now she is still good friends platonically with both of them.

Honestly even the fact that they are so open to sharing these experiences with a guy they have only met once or twice without at least some justification "I was young and stupid and have learned my lesson" is kind of off putting. But I guess at least they seem to be honest.

Again, small sample size but Ive lived a good portion of my life in EE and I do think people exaggerate how "traditional" women are. There are more girls who are such but finding one isnt that much easier in my view. Or Im not going to the right places/doing the right things.

As for why I want a LTR - Ive realised I want a family and I dont want to be 40 when I have my first kid.

Some of the points on similar threads were - focus on getting layed and problems will sort themselves out. Well, I do get semi regular lays. About 1 new a month and some repeats there and there. Nothing amazing but these are becoming less and less fulfiling and more ego boosting.


Im still focussing on improving my SMV and will never stop even if in a LTR, but I do believe my biggest thing holding me back is how often I meet girls that are even close to meeting my requirements.


It's become a long thread but here are the requirements. Just to be fair, I think I meet all of these myself (apart from the number of lays but I can cut contact with girls like a switch when in a LTR if needed). Am I looking for a unicorn? Would you add/remove any to the list? Where/what should I do to meet more girls who are likely to have these qualities?

- Have the good vibes 'gene'. Mainly focuses on having a good time, doesnt let negative stuff affect her for too long. Knows what makes her happy.

- Is adventurous. Likes to go hiking, travel, do new things (try new sports, hobbies etc) and have at least a bit of a competitive spirit

- can make jokes with her and has a humorous side

- Is decently attractive and less than 6ft tall lol (dont like girls taller than me)

- is between 20 and 28

- have good communication. Ability to share problems, able to solve conflicts in a respectable manner. Does not hold grudges.

- Can connect emotionally

- Is kind and has nurturing tendecies

- is honest and able to build trust. Shows qualities and references that she is trustworhy and loyal.

- Does not lie and can own up to mistakes.

- Respects me and others and does not do things to undermine me, especially in public

- Is relatively organised and clean

- Does not overshare personal or family problems with others

- Is not good friends with exes or previous sexual partners.

- Will show references she will not put herself in situations where she may cheat - i.e. get too drunk while clubbing, going to other guys' houses

- good sex libido and not too prude, be adventurous enough to have sex in public, keep it exciting etc.

- Has at least 1 passion/goal/ambition that drives her. Doesnt need to be something serious. Just something that keeps her motivated in life. The passion can change or fiddle as long as she can somewhat quickly find something else to focus on.

- Can be independent and confident when she needs to be. Does not become clingy/needy


-Contributes to household. It doesnt have to be monetary, can be house upkeep, looking after kids, a side hustle, so long as she is doing something and contributing meaningfully.

- Can align with long-term goals on finances, living situation, big purchases priorities. I focus on building assets.

- Can follow my boundaries and apply her own in a healthy manner

- Is relatively frugal and not attracted too much to monetary things or paying for status things.

- Has a good level of intelligence/emotional intelligence and at least be able to handle basic life and problem solving.

- Has interests in something like reading or something that positively stimulates the mind

- To not be fixated on political or other movements.

- Has less than 10 intimate partners and understands the complications that can arise from too much promiscuity

- Does not have serious personality disorders, trauma etc

- Does not have history of cheating, or extremely risky sexual experiences

- no addictive tendencies

- does not spend all day on social media or care too much what people think or attention grabbing posts

- Is at least somewhat submissive and willing to be led.

- Doesnt have to be extrenely feminine but should still enjoy dressing up and taking care of herself, good hygiene etc

- Take care of herself and values her body. Doesnt need to go to gym but at least do some spotts to ensure she is not gaining weight.

- Values healthy habits. Doesnt smoke, doesnt do drugs, and doesnt eat takeaways every day. Enjoys healthy, home cooked meals with veggies etc.


- Isn't stuck to a location. Im flexible where we base ourselves, but she must not be 100% stuck to a city/area.

- wants kids

A lot of the things you listed here develop together in a conservative or semi-conservative family household, which makes it easier to find them once you find them, but finding them in the first place can be difficult - it's not too easy to tell at a glance in what environment a woman on the street grew up in.

My main advice for girlfriend selection is to get yourself invited to see her parents (or at least get her to show pictures of them to you and tell you all about them) as soon as you're serious about things. There is nothing that gives you a clearer picture of how you can expect your life with her to be in 10-20 years than seeing:

- What sort of people her parents are
- How she and her mom treat her dad
- The habits and routines that have managed to survive long-term inside the family

People will tell you everyone is different and goes on different life paths but that is only marginally true, her parents were (and should still be) by far the strongest example and influence on her attitude and behavior toward family life and marriage. She grew up watching her mother behave a certain way toward her father - the biggest male authority figure in her life - and whether she likes it or not she will reenact that behavior when the chips are down. I've seen it time and time again.

Two more points. The first one is, don't forget that a woman's behavior is always largely dependent on you and how you behave around her. Every woman will have bad tendencies of one sort or another, and if you leave those tendencies to grow you will end up with a less than stellar relationship (or worse). There are 'bad' tendencies that are more instinctual and part of the female nature (such as dumping a weak or deadbeat guy for a better one) and there are tendencies that are much more related to trauma and bad upbringing (such as going ballistic when she's upset). I pay much more heed to the latter in terms of filtering women, because I consider that on things related to keeping her female nature satisfied, I am at an advantage, whereas I don't have a lot of patience to deal with ballistic women. But regardless there will be tendencies you don't like in all the women you spend time with, and you will need to keep them reined it.

Another point: be aware of how honest you are to yourself when you choose these women. Finding a woman that 'clicks' will cover a multitude of sins, the chemistry will be stronger and it will be easier and more intuitive to deal with her in times of crisis (and incidentally, I think she finds you more intuitive and therefore feels safer and more secure around you, which helps keep her calm). And it can be very revealing to sometimes find that the women you click with are not exactly what you had on your list.

It's like those people who write out a list of what they want, and on it it says "build a business and generate $1m revenue" and then they find they aren't really driven to work a lot or deal with people and paperwork or hold a lot of responsibility every day. Or they write down "I want a Ferrari" but they don't really even like cars.

As an example, I like the idea of having a gym bunny girlfriend. These girls tend to be extroverted, conscientious/disciplined, somewhat adventurous, and overall seem like a good package. But they often don't have a shred of artistic sensibility and aren't interested in ideas or anything imaginative. And the girls that click with me are often a bit more arty, a bit more introverted, a bit more thinking, and a fair bit more curious and open-minded than these gym bunny types, but somewhat less disciplined and conscientious. Because that's what I am.

So remember when you make lists, they will only be a guide, a bunch of items will tend to be things you've put there to satisfy a whim or because you've read that that's what you need to look for, rather than things you really need or want.

 

[orkie123]

A lot of the things you listed here develop together in a conservative or semi-conservative family household, which makes it easier to find them once you find them, but finding them in the first place can be difficult - it's not too easy to tell at a glance in what environment a woman on the street grew up in.

My main advice for girlfriend selection is to get yourself invited to see her parents (or at least get her to show pictures of them to you and tell you all about them) as soon as you're serious about things. There is nothing that gives you a clearer picture of how you can expect your life with her to be in 10-20 years than seeing:

- What sort of people her parents are
- How she and her mom treat her dad
- The habits and routines that have managed to survive long-term inside the family

People will tell you everyone is different and goes on different life paths but that is only marginally true, her parents were (and should still be) by far the strongest example and influence on her attitude and behavior toward family life and marriage. She grew up watching her mother behave a certain way toward her father - the biggest male authority figure in her life - and whether she likes it or not she will reenact that behavior when the chips are down. I've seen it time and time again.

Two more points. The first one is, don't forget that a woman's behavior is always largely dependent on you and how you behave around her. Every woman will have bad tendencies of one sort or another, and if you leave those tendencies to grow you will end up with a less than stellar relationship (or worse). There are 'bad' tendencies that are more instinctual and part of the female nature (such as dumping a weak or deadbeat guy for a better one) and there are tendencies that are much more related to trauma and bad upbringing (such as going ballistic when she's upset). I pay much more heed to the latter in terms of filtering women, because I consider that on things related to keeping her female nature satisfied, I am at an advantage, whereas I don't have a lot of patience to deal with ballistic women. But regardless there will be tendencies you don't like in all the women you spend time with, and you will need to keep them reined it.

Another point: be aware of how honest you are to yourself when you choose these women. Finding a woman that 'clicks' will cover a multitude of sins, the chemistry will be stronger and it will be easier and more intuitive to deal with her in times of crisis (and incidentally, I think she finds you more intuitive and therefore feels safer and more secure around you, which helps keep her calm). And it can be very revealing to sometimes find that the women you click with are not exactly what you had on your list.

It's like those people who write out a list of what they want, and on it it says "build a business and generate $1m revenue" and then they find they aren't really driven to work a lot or deal with people and paperwork or hold a lot of responsibility every day. Or they write down "I want a Ferrari" but they don't really even like cars.

As an example, I like the idea of having a gym bunny girlfriend. These girls tend to be extroverted, conscientious/disciplined, somewhat adventurous, and overall seem like a good package. But they often don't have a shred of artistic sensibility and aren't interested in ideas or anything imaginative. And the girls that click with me are often a bit more arty, a bit more introverted, a bit more thinking, and a fair bit more curious and open-minded than these gym bunny types, but somewhat less disciplined and conscientious. Because that's what I am.

So remember when you make lists, they will only be a guide, a bunch of items will tend to be things you've put there to satisfy a whim or because you've read that that's what you need to look for, rather than things you really need or want.

This is extremely useful, thank you.

Ive decided to spend more time being in more conservative cities and see if I can get into such social groups. Its not necessarily my 'vibe' but what I've been doing so far hasnt worked and there are a few places I wouldnt mind living in that are more likely to have more traditional girls.

As for how I act, most of the time - I find deal breakers extremely quickly which I would unlikely be able to correct nor do I want to. I also think that my basics for handling bad behaviour and relationship management are okey. That said, Im sure I may lose a good girl or 2 before Im more solid, which is another reason I dont want to delay my focus on finding a good LTR.


As for being honest with myself, thats an area im not worried about and I agree that some of these requirements will go out the window if a girl clicks well. That said, most of my boundaries are not up for debate.

My ex had certain red flags and I knew from the start that these would most likely mean break up and hurting eachother. However, we clicked so well so I took the risk. Because of this, ive got some clear cut boundaries that no matter how much I click with a girl, I wouldnt ignore now. It was a useful experience that I no longer want to repeat

 

[Chase]

@orkie123,

Thanks for the detailed answer chase, really appreciate it.


Agreed. My poing with this story is im genuinely confused as to how to find what im looking for. My worry if I get into say conservative circles and religion is that she will not have the same adventure vibe as me.

I feel like im not that adventurous, but then when you compare to most people, there's few people that have travelled, done high adrenaline sports and met so many people as me. Im not looking for that level of adventurousness in a girl, im calming down myself. But if she isnt willing to wake up at 5am to go hike a volcano to see the sun rise when we are in Bali, thats a no from me .



So what would your suggestion be to increase my chances of getting such a gf? Im flexible in how I live my life and finding girls like this is become one of my biggest priorities.

I think i overemphasised how much certain qualities mean to me. I re-read the 3 articles you linked, and I think I have similar likes to you and probably less strict on some qualities.

But I dont find almost any of these girls. Im not saying they dont exist, but that what Im doing is not working and I need help to figure out what.



It concerns me how bad people are at communicating in relationships. I wasnt amazing at the start of my first relationship, but when it came to problem solving, I found I was both able to articulate the root cause of problems and find solutions that worked for both of us. I was also able to teach my ex to communicate similarly too.

As for lies, I did mean no big lies or owns up to them in a timely manner. This was a major pain point with my ex where she would lie for no good reason. I dont know if she was pathological but to me it seemed so silly. I only do white lies or slight exagerration of stories that make them more fun/interesting and dont mind when others do those.

For respect, I dont like when girls cause drama in public as a weapon.

Im not too fussed on this one. What I mean is I dont want the girl who leaves the pans out for weeks or misses her important appointments. I view this as being a functional human being but maybe im wrong haha.


I know 10 is quite high for some people but the only reason I care for count is because most girls seem to get at least 1 guy who was somewhat toxic to them that they will more or less never be able to resist.

That said, it does seem most girls will have a guy like that after a few sexual encounters.

I want to reduce my chance of cheating/divorce but maybe the only real way to identify this is if the lay count is 3 or lower...

So what exactly is submisiveness? For me the important thing is that she doesnt rebel to the point of risking the relationship. I.e. travelling alone (other than for family/work) or with guy friends, deciding she will suddenly start clubbing or going out with unfavourable female friends..

I feel like my ex was a good mixture of independent and self aware to avoid most of these things, while also looking up to me and my long term goals.

I dont know if that counts as submisiveness.


Same with feminine. I dont care if she has her nails done or is always wearing dress with heels, but to put some effort some of the time. My ex put very little effort in her appearance but still would wear dresses, and feminine clothes.


In summary, the most important for me is good loyalty, trust, communication, fun and intelligent vibes, not risk taker and capable human being that looks good and likes to travel and do fun things while travelling including sex.

Most of those qualities in a package are not really difficult to find:

• Above average level of adventurous -- enough that on a trip she's eager to get up early and do some adventuring. I'd say on average 15-20% of women are going to qualify here.
• Independent-ish but still wants to cleave to her man -- probably 50%+ of women qualify here.
• Minimum level of feminine presentation -- maybe 60-70% of women qualify.
• 10 or fewer lifetime partners -- 90% of women qualify.

Except for the adventurousness, you're drawing from the majority of women for your other desired characteristics.

For screening, you typically want to start with the rarest trait and go from there.

So in your case it'd be:

1. Look for girls with a zesty, feisty personality and who will talk to you about their own travels, frenetic travel pace, many sights seen, etc.
   
   
2. Once that's established, look for independence -- though zesty travel hounds pretty much always are IME.
   
   
3. Appearance maintenance you mostly want to find out if she lets herself go once she's in a relationship and starts wearing sweats all the time or whatnot.
   
   
4. Partner count is last and least important since most women will qualify. You're just looking for any stand out signs that she's a real wild one (e.g., new guy every couple of months, history of infidelity, etc.).

You do not need to look in conservative circles for these types. In fact, I suspect you are going to find less of what you want in conservative circles. Adventurous, independent women in their 20s with partner counts over 5 tend to chafe at conservativism and gradually rebel against it. The ones with good educations and careers rebel more slowly though (i.e., they don't dive feet first into drugs, drink, and ONS. More like wade into it).

The one challenge is the communication thing.

Men are always trying to find women who will communicate like men.

They are looking for the mythical woman who will not do this:

I have a friend who broke up with a girl who was perfect for him in every way except that every now and then she would cause drama and he'd have to solve it. He said he tried to teach her how to solve drama on her own and eventually one day he waited for her to resolve the drama herself but she didn't. So he just ended it.

At some point I just talked to him and said, look, dude, women don't cause drama because they don't know how to solve problems and desperately need men to fix things. Women cause drama because it is a female subprocess for checking on the health of the relationship and the strength of the man. The woman resolving her own drama would be counterproductive. Women cause drama for men to resolve. That is the dynamic. If you don't want to solve as much drama, find a more relaxed gal.

Talking about 'communications' and 'problems' I suspect you are really saying, "I want a low-drama gal."

The bad news for you there:

• Adventurousness and libido is inversely correlated with being low drama. As adventurousness goes up, drama goes up. As libido goes up, drama goes up. To get low drama, you need low adventurousness and low libido.
  
  
• Youth and inexperience are inversely correlated with being low drama. The younger she is, the less well-trained she is, and the poorer a communicator she will tend to be. For minimal drama, you want a well-trained woman, who has had a relationship or relationships with enlightened guys who taught them better communication skills already (as you did with your ex). For you, you should probably be looking for girls at the upper end of your age limit (27 or 28) and who have had lengthy relationships with strong men they still hold in high esteem. Those are the girls most likely to come pre-trained.

Some guys deal with the "adventurous/high libido-drama problem" by opening their relationships up. Push the girl to find another guy to serve as her emotional dish rag and make it clear you do not tolerate drama. That doesn't sound like what you're looking for and it's not especially conducive to what it sounds like your LTR goals are though.

So... you will probably need to choose:

• Do I want to sacrifice some adventurousness and libido in exchange for a chiller, more drama-free relationship?
• Or am I willing to tolerate the odd bout of infuriating drama in exchange for a fun, zesty, horny chick?

Decisions, decisions!

Chase

 

[Will_V]

You do not need to look in conservative circles for these types.

Yeah I think you're right here. When I scanned the list the main things that jumped out was the more housewifey stuff.

I guess a better term might be 'family oriented' rather than conservative households. You want her to have grown up in a place where there is strong cohesion between family members, good standards and rules, and plenty of investment and attention from her parents throughout her upbringing.

Class is probably more of an indicator than political orientation here.

 

[orkie123]

@orkie123,



Most of those qualities in a package are not really difficult to find:

• Above average level of adventurous -- enough that on a trip she's eager to get up early and do some adventuring. I'd say on average 15-20% of women are going to qualify here.
• Independent-ish but still wants to cleave to her man -- probably 50%+ of women qualify here.
• Minimum level of feminine presentation -- maybe 60-70% of women qualify.
• 10 or fewer lifetime partners -- 90% of women qualify.

Except for the adventurousness, you're drawing from the majority of women for your other desired characteristics.

For screening, you typically want to start with the rarest trait and go from there.

So in your case it'd be:

1. Look for girls with a zesty, feisty personality and who will talk to you about their own travels, frenetic travel pace, many sights seen, etc.
   
   
2. Once that's established, look for independence -- though zesty travel hounds pretty much always are IME.
   
   
3. Appearance maintenance you mostly want to find out if she lets herself go once she's in a relationship and starts wearing sweats all the time or whatnot.
   
   
4. Partner count is last and least important since most women will qualify. You're just looking for any stand out signs that she's a real wild one (e.g., new guy every couple of months, history of infidelity, etc.).

You do not need to look in conservative circles for these types. In fact, I suspect you are going to find less of what you want in conservative circles. Adventurous, independent women in their 20s with partner counts over 5 tend to chafe at conservativism and gradually rebel against it. The ones with good educations and careers rebel more slowly though (i.e., they don't dive feet first into drugs, drink, and ONS. More like wade into it).

The one challenge is the communication thing.

Men are always trying to find women who will communicate like men.

They are looking for the mythical woman who will not do this:

I have a friend who broke up with a girl who was perfect for him in every way except that every now and then she would cause drama and he'd have to solve it. He said he tried to teach her how to solve drama on her own and eventually one day he waited for her to resolve the drama herself but she didn't. So he just ended it.

At some point I just talked to him and said, look, dude, women don't cause drama because they don't know how to solve problems and desperately need men to fix things. Women cause drama because it is a female subprocess for checking on the health of the relationship and the strength of the man. The woman resolving her own drama would be counterproductive. Women cause drama for men to resolve. That is the dynamic. If you don't want to solve as much drama, find a more relaxed gal.

Talking about 'communications' and 'problems' I suspect you are really saying, "I want a low-drama gal."

The bad news for you there:

• Adventurousness and libido is inversely correlated with being low drama. As adventurousness goes up, drama goes up. As libido goes up, drama goes up. To get low drama, you need low adventurousness and low libido.
  
  
• Youth and inexperience are inversely correlated with being low drama. The younger she is, the less well-trained she is, and the poorer a communicator she will tend to be. For minimal drama, you want a well-trained woman, who has had a relationship or relationships with enlightened guys who taught them better communication skills already (as you did with your ex). For you, you should probably be looking for girls at the upper end of your age limit (27 or 28) and who have had lengthy relationships with strong men they still hold in high esteem. Those are the girls most likely to come pre-trained.

Some guys deal with the "adventurous/high libido-drama problem" by opening their relationships up. Push the girl to find another guy to serve as her emotional dish rag and make it clear you do not tolerate drama. That doesn't sound like what you're looking for and it's not especially conducive to what it sounds like your LTR goals are though.

So... you will probably need to choose:

• Do I want to sacrifice some adventurousness and libido in exchange for a chiller, more drama-free relationship?
• Or am I willing to tolerate the odd bout of infuriating drama in exchange for a fun, zesty, horny chick?

Decisions, decisions!

Chase

There is definitely an element of what Will_V said, in that I'm not able to articulate what makes a girl click while also meeting a written requirements list.

I'm currently travelling and have so far have spoken to at least 50 girls in the last month that meet my attractiveness threshold and I would sleep with them given the opportunity or something casual. Out of those, only 1, maybe 2 passed my initial screening of 'do I click with them' for something long-term.

My point is that, even within very early stage screening, only about 2-5% of girls who meet my attractiveness threshold are possible candidates even within a travelling setting that meets the adventurousness quality by default. With my attraction threshold being at around what most people consider a minimum of around a 6.5/7.

As for drama, I don't mind I as much as I maybe made it out here, or at least I like a balance between libido and drama/wildness. My ex was very supportive, was adventurous to my liking, and and only had the occasional drama around once a month, with a slightly bigger one (but not the batshit crazy ones) every 6 months or so. I don't know where that lies in the drama scale but that was all okay with me, especially since she did learn to communicate her issues better.

Yeah I think you're right here. When I scanned the list the main things that jumped out was the more housewifey stuff.

I guess a better term might be 'family oriented' rather than conservative households. You want her to have grown up in a place where there is strong cohesion between family members, good standards and rules, and plenty of investment and attention from her parents throughout her upbringing.

Class is probably more of an indicator than political orientation here.

I like this distinction as in general political stance isn't an important thing for me as long the girl isn't extreme in her views. Girls that have been raised well and at least somewhat understand the difference between masculine and feminine roles are usually good enough for me.

 

[Will_V]

I like this distinction as in general political stance isn't an important thing for me as long the girl isn't extreme in her views. Girls that have been raised well and at least somewhat understand the difference between masculine and feminine roles are usually good enough for me.

I meant 'political orientation' in the broad sense of personality type - I certainly don't particularly care for politics myself, and couldn't care less what a woman thinks about it.

JP talks alot about this - according to him, the Big Five personality traits are correlated to a tendency toward either liberalism vs conservatism. But liberalism and conservatism do not just represent a political stance, they are also spiritual ideals with a moral/religious dimension, with roots that lead right down to the innate or genetic qualities of an individual.

The traits that are aligned with reliability and diligence tend to be more correlated with conservatism, whereas the traits that are aligned with creativity and openness are correlated to liberalism.

Why I say that wealth or class (of the family she grew up with) is probably a better indicator of quality, is because those people who have reached a very good position in life tend to be disciplined, careful, diligent, and protective of their lifestyle and offspring, even if they are liberal by nature, because they worked hard for what they have and value it. So a woman is more likely to have been brought up in this environment with good habits and expectations, even if the entire family is liberal.

I am very much liberal by nature, in terms of my personality and ideals. But I have had to learn and develop a lot of the qualities that don't come so naturally to me that make it possible for me to get where I want to go. And while I'm not typically attracted to conservative girls, I still very much prefer women who understand reality well enough to have developed a good amount of diligence and loyalty in their character, and are relatively free from neuroticism, while still being fun and satisfying and clicking with me.

 

[Chase]

@orkie123,

There is definitely an element of what Will_V said, in that I'm not able to articulate what makes a girl click while also meeting a written requirements list.

I'm currently travelling and have so far have spoken to at least 50 girls in the last month that meet my attractiveness threshold and I would sleep with them given the opportunity or something casual. Out of those, only 1, maybe 2 passed my initial screening of 'do I click with them' for something long-term.

My point is that, even within very early stage screening, only about 2-5% of girls who meet my attractiveness threshold are possible candidates even within a travelling setting that meets the adventurousness quality by default. With my attraction threshold being at around what most people consider a minimum of around a 6.5/7.

Ah, the instant chemistry.

1/25 or 1/50 are perfectly fine numbers in terms of immediate chemistry.

Actually if you are hitting it off immediately and powerfully with 1/25 girls, you are doing pretty well.

IME, instant chemistry is a pretty close cousin to love at first sight. This article may help:

Falling in Love, Part II: Finding Love at First Sight

This is Part II of a 2-part series on reaching the point where you feel comfortable feeling emotion for women. You can read Part I, on ending your own fear of romance, here. In this article, we’ll discuss how to experience love at first sight... regularly. How can you train yourself to spot...

www.girlschase.com

Just in general, most girls will be fine to chat with, go out with, and sleep with, but will not be "magnetically attractive" to you, and that is fine. Just continue enjoying the women you meet while you keep your feelers out for those rarer perfect matches for you, then make sure to close the ones you hit it off hard with when you find them.

Chase

 

[Conquistador]

What I’ve noticed is that girls in strongly conservative communities who are “adventurous” tend to channel it into achieving power, status, or working toward personal goals that give them meaning and/or profit. I had two different babysitters exactly like this.

Walk into a church, synagogue, even some mosques, at the end of the service, look for either the alpha female in the unmarried-girls circle or alternatively the one who’s doing all the coordination and stuff, and hey presto.

You don’t specifically have to look in religious communities. Anything that prevents a girl from partaking in the sociosexual script which conventionally attractive young women in the general population are expected to follow works.

The two most effective things you could potentially do, I think, are 1) lower your physical-attractiveness standards as much as you can handle (or alternatively decouple your standards from society’s often stupid or contradictory ones and embrace the profound wisdom of your penis and heart) and 2) meet girls through SCs that don’t involve partying. Both of those are not easy to do, but statistically speaking, the problem is not really “such girls are rare and usually alr taken” but “the subset of girls I approach do not fit my LTR standards”.
There are clearly vast hordes of average-cute women with 2.3 lifetime partners and no obvious deal-breakers, but they don’t end up in PUAs’ beds very often. Go figure.

By the way, I have a neighbor who is a literal caricature of a 4chan “cuck”, clearly on the spectrum, awful posture etc. He is happily married to a basically healthy woman with a postgrad degree who was probably fairly attractive 12 or 15 years ago and they have a few kids who are no worse off than their other dorky, prematurely pubescent, screen-obsessed, plastics-ridden Gen Alpha peers.

If such a dude can be conventionally successful, surely no one here has fewer prospects?

I could speculate about marrying below you making one-sided polygamy easier but I won’t indulge in KJ. Everything else was from my direct observations.

Girls who are in the process of leaving religion and not going the full tats-and-goth route are also worth looking into. Some ex-Mormon girls I’ve seen are really hot and wholesome.

 

[Will_V]

What I’ve noticed is that girls in strongly conservative communities who are “adventurous” tend to channel it into achieving power, status, or working toward personal goals that give them meaning and/or profit. I had two different babysitters exactly like this.

Yeah, I've noticed this too.

The problem with strongly conservative or religious communities though is that, if you aren't embedded deep in them, and you are the orbital center of her life, how will you maintain her adherence to the aspects of that community that you value? Even more so when that community is a minority inside a larger liberal society. I can't say I've tried this yet, but it strikes me as a bit shaky.

I don't believe very much in the stability of religious or moral idealism in women. What I do believe in is a good natural temperament, as well as an upbringing that has created good habits as well as a strong personal identity and self esteem in her, so that she is not terribly impulsive or lacking in self control, and a social and family network that reinforces all of that. And a relatively trauma-free life.

The less that ideology has played a part in developing those things, the clearer it is to see how well it has really taken inside her.

Girls who are in the process of leaving religion and not going the full tats-and-goth route are also worth looking into. Some ex-Mormon girls I’ve seen are really hot and wholesome.

Might want to be careful trying to LTR a girl in this phase, she might have some catching up to do!