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Anti-Depressants are the only option for some?

towarzysz

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Hi. I was diagnosed with depression last year. I have not taken any medicine or received any treatment after being diagnosed. My problem is not fear of women or talking to them. My problem is that I don't feel any sort of pleasure from interacting with them, as well as not having the inclination to be inquiring of them. When I've started conversations, they got boring quickly because my mind doesn't come up with anything more to say past the first minute or two. I would say that I am a dry person. My brain thinks "What's the point of interacting with this person? There's nothing to gain." That's apart of depression. There's been times in the past when I experimented with oxycodone. I noticed that after taking that substance I bercome slightly more inclined to enjoy social interaction but not really, since it's not an anti-depressant but it at least puts you in an euphoric mood.
What can coaching or reading books change? They can't change a person's inner composition. They're words that have no effect at penetrating. I would like to please hear from Chase and other masters on this.
 

James D

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Hey man,

Sorry to hear about your depression. Mustn't be easy.

I'm no expert on the subject. Maybe someone on the forum can chime in with some practical advice based on their personal experience.

However, it's good to keep in mind that the kind of help you're seeking won't be found in forums like these.

A professional tailored to help cases like yours seems to be the most logical path here.
 

Superlife

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Hi. I was diagnosed with depression last year. I have not taken any medicine or received any treatment after being diagnosed. My problem is not fear of women or talking to them. My problem is that I don't feel any sort of pleasure from interacting with them, as well as not having the inclination to be inquiring of them. When I've started conversations, they got boring quickly because my mind doesn't come up with anything more to say past the first minute or two. I would say that I am a dry person. My brain thinks "What's the point of interacting with this person? There's nothing to gain." That's apart of depression. There's been times in the past when I experimented with oxycodone. I noticed that after taking that substance I bercome slightly more inclined to enjoy social interaction but not really, since it's not an anti-depressant but it at least puts you in an euphoric mood.
What can coaching or reading books change? They can't change a person's inner composition. They're words that have no effect at penetrating. I would like to please hear from Chase and other masters on
In my experience there's no lasting, quick answers to something like this. I would suggest therapy. In my case I recently starting talking to a psychiatrist, and while it's helped me feel better, I'm still not seeing any change in my circumstances (not getting laid for example) but have to stick with it and I'm determined to get there. I know it's going to take time and work. Cognitive behavioral therapy seems to be a central point to help with a lot of things so you may want to look at that... sitting down with a notebook, writing out whatever comes to mind, and when the thoughts are critical/negative debunking them. But yeah, it's a process.

Drugs.. I've only tried cymbalta and I'm done with that. Don't need the slowing of my metabolism (which I found out about after I started taking it). Personally I would avoid drugs (at least long term) as some research has indicated negative impacts from lengthy use on health. But I know sometime when just restarting for a little while I think they have their place. Any opioids though I'd be really careful with.
 
the right date makes getting her back home a piece of cake

DArtagnan

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Hi @towarzysz! I self diagnose myself as someone who was midly to medium depressed throughout most of my life: from 7 to 32 years old more or less. For me, overcoming depression was a combination of many factors.

Ok, I somehow got really motivated and wrote a quite big article on this. I was not expecting this. But depression is a very close topic for me. I hope it will be useful for you! I cite many articles from GC but I was too lazy to get the links, sorry. I prioritized writing since the words were flowing.

Firstly, I think Chase, in one of his articles, defined depression very well. I cannot remember the article. If I'm not wrong, he says that depression is deeply linked to lack of self-esteem, to you feeling like you have nothing to offer to society, nothing to offer to anyone around you, no value to add. I can relate to this very much.

So the solution is somehow finding a way of being useful. Is it a job that you need? Is it a hobbie, such as playing music and being able to entertain people? Is it seduction? Is it getting in shape to be able to do some physical activity with others in group? It must be something that has a social aspect to it. Something you can share with others. Thus reading might not help directly since it's purely an individual task, but it might definitely inspire you to start taking the actions that you need to overcome depression. Reading was key for me. Some books and the internet helped me a lot. You can start by exploring the Girls Chase website ;)

I would say the prioritary factors are:
* It's never too late to overcome depression. Mine got worst when I was 24, because I thought I had "thrown away my young years" and I would never get them back again, and my life would just be a downwards direction. Then, as I said, when I was 32 I started doing things that helped me overcome it in a definitive manner, and it's lasting until today, and still getting better. Even though my life is far from perfect. But if only I had allowed me to do them back when I was 24, without this "loss" or guilt of thinking that I didn't have any time left, I could have done even more. Thus there's always more time left.
* Start facing the things that are blocking your life, directly. If you are not aware of them, you must do therapy, or meditate, or some kind of introspection, or something to identify and discover them. Then it's necessary to face them. And this should be done directly. No shortcuts, no make believe, no hiding, no excuses. Develop your intelect, or your physique, or your masculinity, or your professional skills, or your social skills, whatever is the blocking point. And allow yourself to do it progressively. If you feel useless in terms of career, you must start with some easy job, and then build from there. Do it progressively.
* Finding some physical activity that you enjoy and start doing it. Progressively is also key here. Don't put pressure on you. If you have never run in your life, start by running 15 min twice a week. If you have never lifted weights, start doing it 30 min, once, then twice a week, then increasing time, etc. And actually, many therapists recommend a simple activity to start: just walking. Walking can take you a long way. We, humans, were made for walking. It's a very natural activity for us. And we never do enough of it. Coming back to the progressive aspect, if you try to skip steps, you will fail. It must be progressive. If you stop doing it for a while, take a step back and restart again.
* Getting rid of people around you who judge you for your depression. Or people that come to you with this "tough love" trying to help. Tough love doesn't work if you are depressed, it only makes it worse. You need sweet and tender love. Frequently, these people are the ones closest to you: your parents, family, siblings, close friends. Get rid of them. Get away from them, cut contact, minimize contact to a minimum, try your hardest to not let them impact your life anymore.
* Getting rid of people who trigger your depression. If you have that "perfect" brother who is good at everything he does and better than you, or a friend, or a female friend, or maybe even your parents, who is better than you, get away from them, in the same way as above. You cannot deal with them while you are under depression, while you are feeling weak. You need to cut contact, improve yourself, and then when you are feeling strong again, you can try to get back in contact. You need to feel strong enough that you can learn from them. If you don't feel strong enough, you cannot learn from these people, you will only
feel worse.
* Putting the oxygen mask on you before you help others putting it. This is a reference to those instructions that we hear on planes. It is very significant, and directly linked to the self-esteem concept. Having self-esteem means you are the most important person in your life. You are your priority. Not your mother, father, partner, or friends. You. If you are feeling bad, or ill, or, in the the worst case - if you die - then everything will be worse. The crucial point for you to start having a better life is focusing on you. Do you think that idea a friend is trying to convince you of is bad for you? Then it might very well be. Thus don't give ears to him. Focus on you. Are your parents or family asking too many things from you? Tell them of your situation and that you must focus on you, and start asking things from them. This is another concept thought all over this forum and in GC. Start to ask things from people, instead of just giving things to them. Don't feel guilty about it. It's temporary. You must recover your strength and add value to your life first, before giving value to others lives. You and your life are the most valuable things you have. So start doing what you want, not what others want.

And here are some other factors that help too:
* Improving your life hygiene. Tune again to your circadian rythm: discover that best time for you to sleep, and the best time to wake. Your body usually tells us this, but we ignore it. It was very surprising for me, but over the last few years, I started sleeping earlier and earlier, and waking up earlier and earlier also, and this just improved everything. Fix your eating habit, eat well. Drink less alcohol, use less drugs. Or none at all, better yet. Get some sunshine, and only a bit already helps. Address any medical issues. Spend less time in front of screens. Take care of yourself, overall. People in this forum mention a lot of this, I guess, and it's also all over GC articles. It's basic stuff that naturally gives you more energy.
* Finding a girlfriend, or just a friend. Someone that brings love to you. Non-judgemental love. Who accepts you as you are, who empathizes with you. Like I said above, forget about people with tough love, or people who are paternalistic, or who are "saying things not because they don't like you, but just because they care for you". Or people who are clearly better than you in everything. It sounds silly, but you do need people who are more or less at the same situation than you. Otherwise you will feel bad around them. I know a girl who is bipolar, and got into a psychotic crisis that lasted for a whole year, on and off, than she had to be put into a clinic. There she met a lot of people crazier than her, and started sleeping with a lot of crazy guys and getting attention there. This somehow kickstarted her self-esteem again, and a few months later she was out of the clinic and feeling better. Chase also has an article on this: he says that it can be good for a wounded man to search for a wounded woman. It can sound egoistic to search for someone only to cure you, but it works. And if you can also help cure this person, be it a girlfriend or a friend, then both will end up as winners. In my case I found a wounded woman. I still feel like she helped me more than I helped her, but for one thing: she had medium to heavy OCD and she learnt to control it while living with me. So something I did for her, at least.
* Finding some source of inspiration. This could be a mentor, a real person, but could also be some writer on the internet. I got a lot of help from some psychology books and from the internet. GC helped me a lot, really. And other psychology websites too. Find some that resonate with you, a "school of thought" that resonates with you. This could be linked to some spiritual aspect too. Psychology is frequently linked to some kind of spirituality. You could maybe resonate with Freud, or Jung, or stoicism, or buddhism, or hinduism, or hippie. But this always involves some luck. You have to somehow stumble upon a good reference, but before that, you will be searching.
* Finding hobbies or activities that you can share with others. Board games, sports, music, arts. Don't let any type of prejudice retain you. It doesn't need to be cool, it only need other people that like it too. If playing kidditch (the Harry Potter broom game) helps you, then do it. If its sewing, then do it, maybe in a sewing class with others. And so on.
* Clear your mind from prejudices and critics and external advice. Don't follow trends, fashion, external advice, or whatever. Don't let any prejudice affect your choices. This is related to focusing on you. Depression means you are not able to express yourself, that you are not being able to be who you really are. This could be because the world is putting some kind of pressure on us, telling us that this is silly, or dumb, or geeky, or feminin, or politically wrong, or weak. But this might put a wall on something you have inside you and kill any potential you have to express it. So start getting rid of prejudices and external validation and opinions about everything in your life, at many levels, and this will certainly help you tuning in to yourself again.
 
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DArtagnan

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I might take this opportunity to thank you @Chase, again, for everything you have written in GC. Many articles resonated deeply with me and definitely helped me overcoming depression and weaknesses I had in the past.
 

Superlife

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Are you low testosterone or low vitamin D?
I do light therapy most days, getting sure I'm out in the sun or light rays. I'm at the most muscular I've ever been if those are any indicators.. I'm pretty sure there are mental roadblocks that are the issue.
 
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Chase

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@towarzysz,

Depression-wise, my guide is here:


As far as the value of interacting with others, the real value is reference points:


If you are already able to approach another person, instantly and magically connect, and have that person gushing about what an incredible conversationalist you are, how insightful you are, and how it's like meeting his or her soul twin, then you do not need further reference points to develop your conversational / interactional abilities.

If that is NOT the case, however, then every conversation you have is giving you more conversation/interaction XP. It's like leveling in a video game or training in a sport or hobby in real life -- you need to get the practice in, in as many varied practice situations as possible, to raise your overall skill level.

If you don't have experience raising your expertise in things, I suggest this article:


That should start to get you into the right mindset to have here; that life is a game of skill, where all paths open up as you level your skills.

You might want to explore whether you are a "happiness" person or a "meaning" person:


Your post focuses a lot on happiness, pleasure, and feelings. If you are actually a meaning-driven man, the focus on happiness will trip you up. You keep waiting for feelings to 'happen', when for a meaning-driven man, emotions are a side effect of doing the right thing. If you're a man like this, you need purpose and meaning first; pleasurable feelings will emerge on their own once you're on the right path:


If you're really a more happiness-driven man, then you will need to find a way to get enjoyment out of the act of approaching and conversing if you want to be able to stick with it. Outward focus will help:


It might also help making a game of it:


Back to conversations, not sure if you meant they are boring you or boring the girl (or both).

The solution for that is finding something that interests you that is also interesting to women, and putting your focus on that in your conversations.

For instance... I find people fascinating. Each mind is different, working in different ways, viewing the world through often radically different ways. How is it possible two people can have as divergent viewpoints and experiences as yourself and another person? I can use deep diving and eliciting values to find out. This gets the other person telling about herself, her life, her experiences, her values, her dreams, etc., which are, to her, the most interesting topics in the world. Engrossing for her, and interesting/entertaining for me.

What if you just don't care about people? Well, Alek Rolstad is fascinated with the topic of sex. So what does he do? He learns to talk about sex in a way that is completely absorbing to women.

Etc.

Figure out what is interesting to you, then figure out a way to make that interesting to women/other people. Then you are on your way to conversations absorbing to both parties.

Finally, with regard to physical activity (which @DArtagnan and @Superlife both suggest), I was lifting weights when depressed. It helped with combatting depression, especially once I was using my process from that article.

These days I do calisthenics, and like that even more. Less time consuming, but more personally enjoyable. Plus I don't get injuries from it (used to sometimes while lifting) and have fixed old injuries. I also do not get the "worn down" feeling after a calisthenics work out that I used to after a hard session lifting. You just walk around feeling like a champ instead:


Intramural sports / some kind of athletics class is another good idea. Tennis, skiing/snowboarding, surfing... especially if there are cute girls there ;)

Hope this helps,

Chase
 

Bill

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Some people report treatment resistant depression being healed by ketamine assisted therapy or ECT

 
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Teevster

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A doctor, a good one should never be trigger happy with anti-depressants. To me, they are like "last resort", and preferably not a long term solution. I do not think we should provide medical advice here - but my tip if you are unsure and you think your doctor is "trigger happy" with these kinds of med, is to see another doctor for a secondary opinion.

Ok let us say that medically, you should be on anti-depressants - and there can be a good case for that (in medicine it is always a balance between benefit/risk(cost)). However, just because you need to take them right now does not mean it has to become a long term solution.


My problem is that I don't feel any sort of pleasure from interacting with them, as well as not having the inclination to be inquiring of them. When I've started conversations, they got boring quickly because my mind doesn't come up with anything more to say past the first minute or two. I would say that I am a dry person. My brain thinks "What's the point of interacting with this person? There's nothing to gain." That's apart of depression

It is also a side-effect from anti-depressants. I took ADHD meds as a kid (did so for two weeks). They are pretty similar in many ways, and I felt similarily - which is why I stopped - and never looked back (this does not mean everyone should do like I do - in my case, it was done in agreement with the psychiatrist).

What can coaching or reading books change?

By all means READ. Being depressed is not an excuse to not learn, and reading can do you good!

Coaching can also do good, however, a word of caution - coaching is not a cure for depression. Coaching is coaching - it is about learning a skill. When I was still coaching we used to have a policy (and it is probably still an ongoing policy) to tell depressed potential clients (yes you are not the first one) to seek professional help - as in a healthcare providers - certified!

In a way, we coaches are professionals - in dealing with women and teaching you those skills. Not healthcare professionals. Depression (and being on these meds) will hamper your results with women (keep taking your meds as prescribed - health first! if you stop, do this in agreements with a medical doctor), and stand in the way of the overall learning process. Coaching is usuallly pricey and considering your situation, I would rather spend that money on a good therapist! Solve the underlying issue first - your depression. Then after that feel free to look into coaching.

Any coach that is not a healthcare professional who selsl you the idea that coaching you will cure you is selling you snake oil and is acting unethically. If you would have booked me, and paid me, I would have refunded you followed with an email with homework: find the best therapist and spend that money on that! Finding the right therapist can take time - trials and errors. Start now.

Therapy can also be a long process. Start now.

You can also check out TRE - trauma releasing exercices. We have a thread covering it here - however in your case, I would suggest you do these with a trained professional (certified healthcare professional, preferably).

We would love to help, we but can't, not because we do not want to, but because it is beyond our realm.

-Teevster
 
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Teevster

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Some people report treatment resistant depression being healed by ketamine assisted therapy or ECT

Please do so with a a certified healthcare professionals. Last thing OP wants is a bad trip on ket while alone and depressed.

That said, I have heard positive things about such therapy.

-Teevster
 
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