Attraction - Can it be Generated? - An Introduction to Compliance-Based Game

[YS.]

I feel like I'm literally going insane.

I think (I wish) people saying attracting can't be generated has never gone out a single fucking day in their lives.

It's like discussing whether the earth is flat in a science forum. It is just so so so disappointing in a way that is so enormous.

It triggers me so much that I'm thinking about maybe not coming here as often.

Have you guys never had girls WHO ARE NOT FUCKING INTO YOU AT ALL, and just stayed unreactive with your million dollar mouth piece, your piercing voice and passed a few shit-tests and they were into you?

Like it is so stupid.

Or have you never had a girl, where you were super blase in the beginning but she was so awesome and attractive in person and you were really drawn into her? You know BEING attractive. The whole fucking point of this shit. Or where you are so into a girl's looks but when you talked to her, even if she was into you, she was so fucking lame that you lost all attraction? You just weren't into her anymore?

HAVE YOU GUYS NEVER HAD A NIGHT WHERE YOU ARE AWESOME (in state) and EVERY FUCKING GIRL IS INTO YOU AND ATTRACTED TO YOU; and then have a night where you feel so fucking out of it (literally same week, same person) and NOTHING FUCKING HOOKS.

HAVE YOU GUYS NEVER HEARD OF THE PARADIGMS OF; YES GIRLS, NO GIRLS AND MAYBE GIRLS?

You can just game for getting Yes girls, cool.

But don't espouse absolutely retarded and empirically idiotic shit like attraction is either there or it isn't. Plenty people have attracted skeptical sets or No sets with their game. That's the whole fucking point.

This is the single most baseless shit I have ever heard in my entire fucking life and to hear it in a seduction forum from apparently experienced people is just so disappointing. And to hear people link this shit to looks and stuff is such and old, stupid, disapproved and borderline braindead paradigm.

Like, I've been there done that in the game and in the forums I try to give value as much as I can, so this kind of a negative response is rare from me but this discussion is fucking pathetic. (Same with the looks and money discussion. Pathetic is the right and only word to describe it.) Somebody has to say it. It's not even worth discussing and fucks with new people's brains and would reinforce their already bullshit and wrong worldview.

It's like when you ask a space engineer what do you think about whether the earth is flat or not? Like it is so outside what is normal in your reality and so absurdly false that it's either so funny or so disappointing to even answer this question than to reject it out of hand with a laugh.

This just shows a complete lack of game knowledge, experience or awareness of anything in life. It's as if those natural getting girls thinking it's their old car that attracts them. LOL. Whatever makes you sleep at night. Backwards, self rationalizations.

Again, your game style could be for getting Yes girls but there have been plenty of guys attracting girls who weren't attracted to them in the first fucking place and honestly this is the whole main idea of game. Frame it like that, LIKE Steve Jabba or RooshV; who mostly focus on finding Yes girls but they frame it like hey guys, I don't think it's worth it attracting girls in the middle for me mentally or time-wise. And THAT'S COOL. But don't then rationalize your bullshit after that.

Almost nobody who got to be a mPUA was goodlooking or traditionally attractive in the first place. You can backwards rationalize this as much as you can to fit your crazy ass worldview but this is my last post on the topic so if this discussion ever comes up again I could just refer to it. To be blind to shit like this and HOW FUCKING HARD PEOPLE CRUSH IT is so crazy to me.

Plenty of people made it a fucking point to attract lesbians in PU lol. A fucking common sticking point of PU is when you're getting good YOU GIVE NO FUCKS ABOUT YOUR LOOKS so you get fucking fat, don't shower, wear the same disgusting shirt every night, have a terrible crib, etc AND YOU GIVE NO FUCKS ABOUT YOUR MONEY because NEITHER OF THEM MATTERS AT ALL TO GET A GIRL as you get girls all the time and getting validated. (Literally happened to most PU instructors. And they had to have interventions. Happened to me.)

Now, we can discuss all we want on the merits of gaming a lot for Maybe/No girls or trying to screen hard for Yes girls. COOL, THAT'S A GREAT CONVERSATION BUT LET'S FUCKING FRAME IT LIKE THAT IN A GODDAMN PICKUP FORUM.

Peace out.

Edit: I'm not lashing out to you @Teevster . Your response was fucking tight, I love your shit and loving the frames set here. I just hate that this shit is even being acknowledged in 2020. This literally feels to me like a scientist trying to explain whether the space is real or not in a space forum. ROFL. It's just disappointing.

 

[Toby2030]

That is a good way to put it

I view the seduction process (from meet to close) the same way as the sales process. After all, I have a post on here titled, "sanders sales method = game". In his book, "The Sandler Rules: 49 timeless selling principles and how to apply them", David Mattson, dedicates 3 principles to the art of prospecting:

Prospecting is the act of identifying those individuals who have enough of an interest in your service to have a more substantial conversation with you. Your goal is to weed out the suspects (anyone you might be able to sell your service to) who don’t qualify as prospects as quickly and efficiently as possible. There will be many more people who don’t need your service than people who do. if you focus on the emotionally charged, undesirable aspects of prospecting - the inevitable turn downs and rejections that are part of the process and nothing more - rather than on the more distant end results of the process, you set yourself up for frustration and disappointment.

Prospecting is to sales, what screening is to seduction.

So I have a service/product (looks/fundamentals). And I want to sell it to customers who have enough of an interest in my service, to take have a conversation further (give me an opportunity to charm her).

So you go out approaching girls to determine if she is interested (I will use the phrases "interested" and "attracted" interchangablely) in you or not. If yes, then you'll then want to turn that interest/attraction (which is either there or not) into arousal (make her feel desire). Then lead that arousal to sex (logistical leading). Yes my seduction model is based off your approach

Looks get your foot in the door, game converts that foot in the door to sex.

I recently gave a basic overview into my screening process here:

https://www.skilledseducer.com/thre...urself-discussion-w-velasco.22716/post-114728

Yes. She is interested. (despite her not being all over me, like a green, she still wants to hear more). She is not telling me to fuck off (not interested in my service).

How is this different than

Escalate the process = generate desire (sex talk/prizing). Dealing with resistance = anti-slut defense, female state control).

The only issue is see that we have here is in the attraction phase of the seduction (which you admit you don't even know if its even possible to create it. I am saying you can't).

You say sex talk can create compliance in women (despite them not being physically attracted to you. If we were to take this one step further, this would mean that a fat grotesque old man can create compliance in women via sex talk DESPITE her not being physically attracted to him). Yes, but can it create compliance, if the girl does not view you as physically attractive? (RED girls). In my experience, greens and neutrals respond quite favorably to sex talk. Reds really don't want to hear it, cause they're not interested.

Sell your services to those who are interested in your services (and pass your qualifications (whatever you value in girls) rather than trying to win over girls that really don't want to hear it) You will both be happier for it

I agree that generally what you are saying are best practice for getting results. However, I've worked a sales job the last couple of years. I've sold A LOT of products to people that it wouldn't benefit or people that didn't have any interest in the product to start with (they simply didn't need it). If you can hook the customer (it doesn't have to be anything related to the product) and If you are able to deep dive and find your customers values and pain points, you can literally generate a desire to buy. It requires really good sales skills but it's possible. I've done it multiple times, and I'm sure it's possible in seduction as well - however, my game probably isn't at a caliber yet where I can do that yet.

 

[Chase]

This is a fun thread, @Teevster.

I'm in the boat @Velasco's in, that there is a sort of 'incipient attraction' (which I've dubbed 'fascination' to differentiate it from the other type) that is either going to be there or it isn't, based on your fundamentals, vibe... potentially related to some degree to things you cannot even control (like MHC immune genes, which is one of the most bizarre ones, but actually factors into mate selection).

Attraction is Either There, or It Isn't

Attraction is there at the beginning, or it never fully shows up to the same extent. What determines attraction – and why can’t you ‘create’ it? This is going to be a weird article for some readers. On the one hand, I’m going to challenge some basic assumptions you may have. But on the other...

www.girlschase.com

However, I'm also in the boat @Gunwitch is in, that the most fun women to sleep with are the ones who aren't actually initially attracted to you (because they're more of a challenge of skill):

Tactics Tuesdays: Confusion Game (for Disinterested or Difficult Girls)

Some women are a lot harder to get than others. But if you keep them on their toes, in the dark, and following your lead, you can yet get them. This is for more advanced practitioners of game. If you still ride seduction training wheels, don’t worry about this yet. You can circle back to this...

www.girlschase.com

Mystery used to call girls you slept with who were way into on the approach 'fools mate', because there's very little skill required there (just keep leading and don't screw up). I think it's best for newer guys focus on this, rather than beat their heads against the wall trying to learn perfect game, while not getting laid in the process.

i.e., the difference between "which girls are the easiest to lay, even without much skill" vs. "which girls can you lay, but require a lot of skill to"?

The easy-to-lay / low-skill-requirements girls are also the girls you want to focus most on when you're rusty or rebuilding momentum.

However, after a while the girls who are into you from square one are not as interesting. They're also not super common (unless you have Godly fundamentals, I suppose). And there is a whole set of women with repressed or distracted personalities where they often don't let themselves feel strong initial attraction for anyone (or they only let themselves feel that way toward men who are unavailable to them, or other weird things).

You can still get these girls too.

Where the seduction basically goes "she goes along with it because she wants to talk and you seem cool" --> "she starts to feeling things with you she doesn't get to feel with a lot of guys, and she likes those feelings, and there isn't really too much to object to about you" --> "suddenly she finds herself alone with you, and she is still feeling those feelings, and you are making a move on her, and she decides she might as well just roll with it because at this point it feels good so why not?"

I consider the emotion you create for this to be something different from the kind of raw, primal attraction you get with girls where you walk up and it's just there.

I will also note... back when I had terrible fundamentals and zero game, I would still randomly have girls (often very attractive girls) I'd run into occasionally who exhibited this strong intrinsic attraction. It happens a lot more nowadays (now that my attractive qualities are across-the-board improved) compared to when I was a sloppy chubby guy, but even when I was an overweight guy with crappy clothes and a crappy haircut and a mumble voice I would still sometimes run into attractive women who were right away attracted to me.

What is the difference... why do some women like you right away while others do not?

Why do equally attractive girls have such starkly different reactions to you?

To me, that is a very interesting question.

Everything from "you look like her father" to "you remind her of her ex-boyfriend" to "she's real horny right now" to "she just had the worst day of her life" to "you're rocking an identity she melts for" to "you have the right/wrong set of MHC genes" to a million other things.

Anyway... it seems to me this is a case where both perspectives are correct:

• There is a kind of initial, primal attraction that you cannot create, that is just THERE or it isn't there
  
  
• There is also a nurtured, generated attraction, which you create with game, with things you do, despite her initial lack of attraction

I will also say, I have had relationships with women I gamed into bed and relationships who did not have that initial attraction for me at all.

And the feeling is different than what you get with a woman who has that initial, primal (genetic?) attraction to you.

It is still nice. She can still fall fairly deeply in love, and be very attracted to you, and you to her.

However, it is noticeably different. There is a lack of that 'soul mate' feeling.

Which is not necessarily a bad thing. If you are a busy guy and you do not want your relationship eating up too much time or emotional focus, it might be good to have a girl there you are not overly super attached to, but just nicely/reasonably attached to.

Chase

 

[Teevster]

Thanks for the link. You may not like semantics but your response was informative. Personally still don’t see the difference and I see a lot of issues in that link but that’s fine. Not that important

Last night, I responded to your message right before I got to go to sleep and I will not lie, it was a bit of "brainy" comment - i.e. one that does not just allow me to spill out my experiences or understanding of women, but instead forcing me to define terms and be more "philosophical". It triggered some of my past trauma from my undergraduate years where I was forced to study Bertrand Russel and all those other guys who jacked off to semantics. I hated it then, and I hate it now.

That all said - without going further into this semantic debate, it is important for me to make sure that people can understand clearly how I use the terms in this post.

For a starter, "Generating Compliance" and "Generating Desire" are more or less synonymous in my post. Not saying they are the same thing, they are not, but in this context, I use these terms interchangeably, since "building compliance" is primarily done by "generating desire". Obviously, one can generate desire without "upping her desire" - and I do mention some examples such as "manipulating logistics".

Now onto "attraction VS. Compliance".
(And no worries I will get back to "desire").

Attraction: the feeling a girl have, or that initial spark, she has towards a man. Usually related to baseline attraction.

From this post:

But what causes this initial attraction or repulsion? Usually, it’s caused by a few factors.

Biology: That is, the way you look. I expect many readers to think that good looks are everything. They’re not, although hot guys will have more girls liking them from the start.

I’m referring more to the subjective aspect of looks and not what is considered “hot” by society. Many people go for what is socially accepted as “beautiful” to gain social status, which is a key factor for women – and some men.

However, I’m talking about the subjective aspect, where your DNA matches a girl’s DNA – i.e., whether you are her type or not. Women you naturally feel a strong attraction for usually feel the same about you, unless you screw it up with unattractive behavior.

Social frame (credit to Gunwitch): If you happen to be her type on a social level (that is, if you fit her stereotype) you can achieve instant attraction. Women tend to fall for a range of around 3 to 5 different types of guys, usually defined by her previous experience with those types. The same goes for men – have you ever noticed that you usually end up with the same types of women?

If you happen to act, dress, or even look like one of her previous partners, she will feel a sense of attraction and comfort because she feels she can make sense of you and the type of guy you are. Of course, this also works in reverse. For example, if her ex was abusive and you remind her of him, you’re out – or you’ll be fighting an uphill battle, at least.

Mood: If she feels happy or horny, she will usually lower the bar for what she finds attractive and be more open to seeing the beauty in people, in contrast to finding everyone uglier when her mood is low. Again, the same goes for men. Notice how when you feel crappy, women seem… crappier?

Your vibe: Your vibe – i.e., your subconscious micro-expressions – can make you either more or less attractive. A good vibe makes you more attractive, and your vibe depends on how you feel, which in turn, is defined by your core beliefs and confidence, as well as your state (or your current momentum).

Either way, this form of attraction is usually called “initial attraction” or “baseline attraction”. Some even call it “instant attraction”, although many just call it “attraction”, contributing to all that unnecessary confusion. Hopefully, with this post, you’ll be able to understand when someone is talking about “built attraction” and that “initial/baseline attraction”.

And compliance is defined as:

I usually prefer using the term “building compliance” because compliance can be increased and decreased based on your communication and behavior. To clarify, “instant attraction” does generate compliance, as people who like you are compliant to you.

However, compliance and attraction are not the same. I prefer the word compliance because it covers a lot of aspects of pickup and seduction that have nothing to do with how attracted she is to you. In fact, it is a broader term that defines the effects of attraction , not its causes. Attraction causes compliance, and the effects are usually more interesting.

But what’s more interesting is that compliance can be created and increased without having “attraction” at its root. This not only provides men with more opportunities to pick up women, but it also incorporates a lot of factors that lead to hookups which go beyond “attraction”. Both women and men alike can have sex with or without attraction.

[...]

To make you really understand what I mean by compliance, let me ask you this: have you ever been so horny that you ended up sleeping with a girl you weren’t particularly attracted to? I bet many of you have – and so have I! So, why do guys do this? Because they are horny, not because they like the girl. Horniness can overcome attraction.

Parting notes:

Desire VS Compliance:
- Desire is a mechanism (i.e. a strong feeling) that makes someone want to ACT.
- The willingness to act can be referred to as "compliance".
- Compliance is caused by desire, but is not only caused by desire, but can be caused by other factors (logistics for example).

And...

Desire VS Attraction:
- Desire is not necessarily related to your feelings towards a particular person. Attraction is. You are "attracted to X person".
- Same thing thing with desire, they ca be related to a particular person (i.e. "I desire Sophie"), but they can be more "overall" (i.e. "I desire pussy - and any hot girl will do").
- Attraction on the other hand is usually usually a robust terms - when you are attracted to person X, it is usually emotional or sexual.
- Desire is a vast term - whereas attraction is also emotional or sexual (it is almost an analytical term), desire needs something else to define it (synthetic term). I.e. "I have desire" does not tell us much, you need to define "what desire" it is, and that could be... sexual desire, social desire (i.e. desire the person because of social value), or because the person offer you something else you want (i.e. she can teach you something).

I hope this clears things up.

It was much easier to define things after a good night of sleep!

Best,

 

[Razorjack]

I feel like I'm literally going insane.

I think (I wish) people saying attracting can't be generated has never gone out a single fucking day in their lives.

It's like discussing whether the earth is flat in a science forum. It is just so so so disappointing in a way that is so magnificent.

It triggers me so much that I'm thinking about maybe not coming here as often.

Have you guys never had girls WHO ARE NOT FUCKING INTO YOU AT ALL, and just stayed unreactive with your million dollar mouth piece, your piercing voice and passed a few shit-tests and they were into you?

Like it is so stupid.

Or have you never had a girl, where you were super blase in the beginning but she was so awesome and attractive in person and you were really drawn into her? You know BEING attractive. The whole fucking point of this shit. Or where you are so into a girl's looks but when you talked to her, even if she was into you, she was so fucking lame that you lost all attraction? You just weren't into her anymore?

HAVE YOU GUYS NEVER HAD A NIGHT WHERE YOU ARE AWESOME (in state) and EVERY FUCKING GIRL IS INTO YOU AND ATTRACTED TO YOU; and then have a night where you feel so fucking out of it (literally same week, same person) and NOTHING FUCKING HOOKS.

HAVE YOU GUYS NEVER HEARD OF THE PARADIGMS OF; YES GIRLS, NO GIRLS AND MAYBE GIRLS?

You can just game for getting Yes girls, cool.

But don't espouse absolutely retarded and empirically idiotic shit like attraction is either there or it isn't. Plenty people have attracted skeptical sets or No sets with their game. That's the whole fucking point.

This is the single most baseless shit I have ever heard in my entire fucking life and to hear it in a seduction from from apparently experienced people is just so disappointing. And to hear people link this shit to looks and stuff is such and old, stupid, disapproved and borderline braindead paradigm.

Like, I've been there done that in the game and in the forums I try to give value as much as I can, so this kind of a negative response is rare from me but this discussion is fucking pathetic. (Same with the looks and money discussion. Pathetic is the right and only word to describe it.) Somebody has to say it. It's not even worth discussing and fucks with new people's brains and would reinforce their already bullshit and wrong worldview.

It's like when you ask a space engineer what do you think about whether the earth is flat or not? Like it is so outside what is normal in your reality and so absurdly false that it's either so funny or so disappointing to even answer this question than to reject it out of hand with a laugh.

This just shows a complete lack of game knowledge, experience or awareness of anything in life. It's as if those natural getting girls thinking it's their old car that attracts them. LOL. Whatever makes you sleep at night. Backwards, self rationalizations.

Again, your game style could be for getting Yes girls but there have been plenty of guys attracting girls who weren't attracted to them in the first fucking place and honestly this is the whole main idea of game. Frame it like that, LIKE Steve Jabba or RooshV; who mostly focus on finding Yes girls but they frame it like hey guys, I don't think it's worth it attracting girls in the middle for me mentally or time-wise. And THAT'S COOL. But don't then rationalize your bullshit after that.

Almost nobody who got to be a mPUA was goodlooking or traditionally attractive in the first place. You can backwards rationalize this as much as you can to fit your crazy ass worldview but this is my last post on the topic so if this discussion ever comes up again I could just refer to it. To be blind to shit like this and HOW FUCKING HARD PEOPLE CRUSH IT is so crazy to me.

Plenty of people made it a fucking point to attract lesbians in PU lol. A fucking common sticking point of PU is when you're getting good YOU GIVE NO FUCKS ABOUT YOUR LOOKS so you get fucking fat, don't shower, wear the same disgusting shirt every night, have a terrible crib, etc AND YOU GIVE NO FUCKS ABOUT YOUR MONEY because NEITHER OF THEM MATTERS AT ALL TO GET A GIRL as you get girls all the time and getting validated. (Literally happened to most PU instructors. And they had to have interventions. Happened to me.)

Now, we can discuss all we want on the merits of gaming a lot for Maybe/No girls or trying to screen hard for Yes girls. COOL, THAT'S A GREAT CONVERSATION BUT LET'S FUCKING FRAME IT LIKE THAT IN A GODDAMN PICKUP FORUM.

Peace out.

Edit: I'm not lashing out to you @Teevster . Your response was fucking tight, I love your shit and loving the frames set here. I just hate that this shit is even being acknowledged in 2020. This literally feels to me like a scientist trying to explain whether the space is real or not in a space forum. ROFL. It's just disappointing.

Preach it @YS. !

I'm right there with you. Seen and EXPERIENCED the same thing, that's the keyword most guys haven't experienced it and don't believe it's possible which is also why they haven't experienced it.

This "you can only get girls into you" also confused me, as it wasn't my experience at all. It was in this post that @Teevster made that explained it perfectly to me.

Classic Dunning Kruger effect

The new generation seduction game is an oversimplification / dumbed down version of the complex old school PU game to make it more appealing to the masses. So for all the guys following the (oversimplified) new generation PU game / skills, they believe that is all there is to it and to them a lot of the old school stuff is fakery, Jedi mind trick bullshit etc.

 

[Sub-Zero]

This is a fun thread, @Teevster.

I'm in the boat @Velasco's in, that there is a sort of 'incipient attraction' (which I've dubbed 'fascination' to differentiate it from the other type) that is either going to be there or it isn't, based on your fundamentals, vibe... potentially related to some degree to things you cannot even control (like MHC immune genes, which is one of the most bizarre ones, but actually factors into mate selection).

Attraction is Either There, or It Isn't

Attraction is there at the beginning, or it never fully shows up to the same extent. What determines attraction – and why can’t you ‘create’ it? This is going to be a weird article for some readers. On the one hand, I’m going to challenge some basic assumptions you may have. But on the other...

www.girlschase.com

However, I'm also in the boat @Gunwitch is in, that the most fun women to sleep with are the ones who aren't actually initially attracted to you (because they're more of a challenge of skill):

Tactics Tuesdays: Confusion Game (for Disinterested or Difficult Girls)

Some women are a lot harder to get than others. But if you keep them on their toes, in the dark, and following your lead, you can yet get them. This is for more advanced practitioners of game. If you still ride seduction training wheels, don’t worry about this yet. You can circle back to this...

www.girlschase.com

Mystery used to call girls you slept with who were way into on the approach 'fools mate', because there's very little skill required there (just keep leading and don't screw up). I think it's best for newer guys focus on this, rather than beat their heads against the wall trying to learn perfect game, while not getting laid in the process.

i.e., the difference between "which girls are the easiest to lay, even without much skill" vs. "which girls can you lay, but require a lot of skill to"?

The easy-to-lay / low-skill-requirements girls are also the girls you want to focus most on when you're rusty or rebuilding momentum.

However, after a while the girls who are into you from square one are not as interesting. They're also not super common (unless you have Godly fundamentals, I suppose). And there is a whole set of women with repressed or distracted personalities where they often don't let themselves feel strong initial attraction for anyone (or they only let themselves feel that way toward men who are unavailable to them, or other weird things).

You can still get these girls too.

Where the seduction basically goes "she goes along with it because she wants to talk and you seem cool" --> "she starts to feeling things with you she doesn't get to feel with a lot of guys, and she likes those feelings, and there isn't really too much to object to about you" --> "suddenly she finds herself alone with you, and she is still feeling those feelings, and you are making a move on her, and she decides she might as well just roll with it because at this point it feels good so why not?"

I consider the emotion you create for this to be something different from the kind of raw, primal attraction you get with girls where you walk up and it's just there.

I will also note... back when I had terrible fundamentals and zero game, I would still randomly have girls (often very attractive girls) I'd run into occasionally who exhibited this strong intrinsic attraction. It happens a lot more nowadays (now that my attractive qualities are across-the-board improved) compared to when I was a sloppy chubby guy, but even when I was an overweight guy with crappy clothes and a crappy haircut and a mumble voice I would still sometimes run into attractive women who were right away attracted to me.

What is the difference... why do some women like you right away while others do not?

Why do equally attractive girls have such starkly different reactions to you?

To me, that is a very interesting question.

Everything from "you look like her father" to "you remind her of her ex-boyfriend" to "she's real horny right now" to "she just had the worst day of her life" to "you're rocking an identity she melts for" to "you have the right/wrong set of MHC genes" to a million other things.

Anyway... it seems to me this is a case where both perspectives are correct:

• There is a kind of initial, primal attraction that you cannot create, that is just THERE or it isn't there
  
  
• There is also a nurtured, generated attraction, which you create with game, with things you do, despite her initial lack of attraction

I will also say, I have had relationships with women I gamed into bed and relationships who did not have that initial attraction for me at all.

And the feeling is different than what you get with a woman who has that initial, primal (genetic?) attraction to you.

It is still nice. She can still fall fairly deeply in love, and be very attracted to you, and you to her.

However, it is noticeably different. There is a lack of that 'soul mate' feeling.

Which is not necessarily a bad thing. If you are a busy guy and you do not want your relationship eating up too much time or emotional focus, it might be good to have a girl there you are not overly super attached to, but just nicely/reasonably attached to.

Chase

Did you ever exactly know how you got those attractive girls when your fundamentals and game were low?

 

[pinpin]

Best infields to check out? for example, ones showing much older (say 45+), non-handsome guys consistently banging hot teens from cold approach? (girls who weren't remotely interested at all, but he used his influence verbals to 'hijack' her brain and hypnotise her/ flip her from 'hell no' to 'yes please!!!')
I really haven't ever seen any infields that have actually impressed/surprised me in all my time, tbh. It's always just average looking dude pulling girls (after many attempts) who are of about the same attractivness and she was always fairly receptive from the open. Something all of my non-PUA friends do most weekends. So would be interested in watching it if you know of any good infields

 

[Velasco]

They want you to believe that there's some mystical level never caught on film whereby you can jedi mindtrick your way into a girls pants lol.

Where the seduction basically goes "she goes along with it because she wants to talk and you seem cool"

So I have a service/product (looks/fundamentals). And I want to sell it to customers who have enough of an interest in my service, to take the conversation further (give me an opportunity to charm her).

Something that it was either flatron or another user made me aware of, was that never the the history of PUA, has there been a LR or a video that captured a guy turning around a Red, and then proceeding to lay her that night.

The girls in their LRs always start with "then then I saw her looking/smiling at me across the room" "I opened her on her jacket/dress, and then she turned to me and smiled"

The girls in their LRs/Infields were always interested/receptive to the PUA. There was no "she completely blanked me on the open, so then I did XYZ and then I banged her"

If there's ever a guy fucking a girl that was a Red, it either happens on the day2, or day3, or several months from the night you originally met...through sheer persistence/game.

My game is centered on screening girls for sex that night. And with Reds, I dont see that happening (not talking about girls shit testing you either. I get shit tested all the time from greens and neutrals lol). Especially considering the fact there currently exists no evidence its ever been done

 

[YS.]

Best infields to check out? for example, ones showing much older (say 45+), non-handsome guys consistently banging hot teens from cold approach? (girls who weren't remotely interested at all, but he used his influence verbals to 'hijack' her brain and hypnotise her/ flip her from 'hell no' to 'yes please!!!')
I really haven't ever seen any infields that have actually impressed/surprised me in all my time, tbh. It's always just average looking dude pulling girls (after many attempts) who are about the same looks level. Something all of my non-PUA friends do most weekends. So would be interested in watching it if you know of any good infields

Get hotseat@home. You will have 10 hrs of infields of a disgusting 35 to 40 y/o 5'7 balding fat ginger crushing it on levels beyond comprehension. NONE of the PUA's are fucking attractive or good looking lol. Why the fuck people are coming up with these retarded explanations? What other excuse do you have? Not old enough? (ROFL) Not in a wheelchair? Have both arms intact? Is the correct race? WHAT THE FUCK BROTHER?

And fuck your terminology. Hijack brains, influence. Bro what the fuck? I have my own company and I do my own sales calls. THIS SHIT SOUNDS SO FUNNY TO ME. Nobody is talking about brain control brother. Jesus fucking Christ! It's just UNDERSTANDING SOCIAL DYNAMICS. OK? Read influence. Read some sales literature. You'll understand game is very similar to that.

Imagine a business owner saying, they either want the product or they don't to their marketing and sales staff. ROFL.

It's just GAME. It's attraction. You do attractive shit, she is attracted to do. How the fuck is that so hard to understand? GO OUT MORE!

You haven't seen ANY infields if nothing surprised you and you always self rationalized everything brother. You gotta open your fucking eyes to see some shit. Nobody can show you anything you're not willing to see.

 

[pinpin]

I've got hotseat at home lol. Older footage seemed to be the result of exreme numbers game (when he was thinner too). Lots of rejections. Eventually stumbled upon a yes girl. Closes her. Recent infields where he's fatter and balder were of him relying on his bisexual girlfriend to do all the work and he'd get the odd makeout with the girl. Nothing in his product comes close to what people are claiming they can do
And the terms I used that you objected too were taken from this very thread!
chill

 

[Chase]

@Sub-Zero,

Still a mystery to me.

A lot of attraction is still a mystery to me.

You walk into a train station and a beautiful girl looks at you, and is obviously attracted. If you walk up and talk to her she is way into it. If you text her she comes on the date. When you invite her home she falls into your bed. When you ask her to keep coming over she turns into your girlfriend. Why was she so into you from that first moment, before even you met? Was it because of your hair? Clothes? Posture? Walk?

Well, maybe. But maybe not. Because that same thing use to happen to me when I had a fat face and a beer gut and sloppy clothes and a $12 haircut. Or at least, the initial meeting did... I did not know what to do with women back then. But the initial attraction was exactly the same.

Fundamentals are part of it, because the better those get, the more often this will happen to you.

But there is also something else happening aside from that.

If you look at most couples, you will notice 75%+ of them have strong facial similarities. Similar face shapes, nose shapes, eyes and mouths, etc.

To the point where nowadays I will see some rich or famous guy, and notice the woman he is with, and say "Whoa, why did he choose HER? He could've chosen a girl so much prettier than her... that girl is not really attractive at all..." then I will look at their faces and realize they look a lot alike.

And people are attracted to other people who look like them.

While the girl is not attractive to me, there is a good chance she is beautiful to him.

So probably when they saw each other there was an initial attraction due to facial similarity.

Might well be when I was a schlubby guy the girls who were responding to me were girls facially similar to me (unconsciously for us both).

Might've been an MHC gene thing.

Or something else subconscious that neither of us were aware of.

Some girls like the guys who have a little extra padding (just like there are guys who like girls who are a little overweight).

I had a girlfriend I got when my fundamentals were still pretty bad (still had my gut and crappy clothes and haircut, though posture and voice were a bit improved), and once I'd improved a lot more, one day she told me she probably would not have dated me if I was like this when she met me because she would've felt like I was out of her league. This girl was very beautiful (even once my fundamentals were good), and was also quite prideful, so not a self-esteem thing at all... but she and another confident beautiful girl I was friends with each separately told me they preferred to date guys who were impressive but not super impressive, because they felt like they could not "keep" guys when those guys got too impressive (and I guess maybe that was an accurate feeling, since ultimately that relationship did end).

"Why do people want the mates they want?" is such a layered subject it is completely impossible to nail down any one specific thing or even handful of specific things as predominant causes.

Chase

 

[YS.]

Something that it was either flatron or another user made me aware of, was that never the the history of PUA, has there been a LR or a video that captured a guy turning around a Red, and then proceeding to lay her that night.

The girls in their LRs always start with "then then I saw her looking/smiling at me across the room" "I opened her on her jacket/dress, and then she turned to me and smiled"

The girls in their LRs/Infields were always interested/receptive to the PUA. There was no "she completely blanked me on the open, so then I did XYZ and then I banged her"

If there's ever a guy fucking a girl that was a Red, it either happens on the day2, or day3, or several months from the night you originally met...through sheer persistence/game.

My game is centered on screening girls for sex that night. And with Reds, I dont see that happening (not talking about girls shit testing you either. I get shit tested all the time from greens and neutrals lol). Especially considering the fact there currently exists no evidence its ever been done

Bro that's cool that you have Yes girl game. Really. LOVE IT. But don't then backwards rationalize your method to "Attraction either exists or doesn't" which is ridiculously false.

It's harmful.

It's really no better than "Just be yourself brah." that naturals or women say to newbies all the time.

 

[YS.]

I've got hotseat at home lol.
And the terms I used that you objected too were taken from this very thread!
chill

And THAT wasn't enough for you? LOL. Or you think Tyler is Leo DiCaprio? Or just not old enough for you? Or did the girls just not immediate bend over and get fucked in the club and for you that was just too little? Wow, he got rejected a few times? Really? Oh NO?

That shit has the most impressive infield I HAVE EVER SEEN.

Tyler is a fucking 2 a TWO on looks. A FUCKING TWO. And all you see is people pulling average girls after many attempts that looks the same level as them. ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME, what the fuck are you watching?

Edit: GOD I'm angry and triggered in this thread. Sorry guys for my tone. It's just 2020 and you guys are still having the same dumb discussion as 2002. Fucking hilarious. And certain experienced people saying shit like this is even more funny.

If these kinds of very limiting belief bullshit ridden threads aren't kept in check the forums become a hellhole full of them. Newbies trying to rationalize their lack of success and trying to find reasons for their life and worldview instead of shutting the fuck up and learning.

Whatever you believe is the truth for you pinpin so pick your beliefs very carefully.

Whether you think you can or can't, you're right bro.

My anger is out of love and frustration believe it or not.

Much love.

-YS

 

[Velasco]

@YS

I would destroy you infield...lol

 

[YS.]

@YS

I would destroy you infield...lol

Sure buddy. It doesn't really matter to how fucking wrong you are though.

Edit:

UGH. Look, man.

Look.

Really, look.

I know for a fact, if I put you in an environment where %80 percent of the girls are closed off, are weary, cold approach is not normal at all. You would suck balls.

You probably live in a very western city with very open party culture and a open society. (Tell me if I'm off.) So you have a lot of room for your completely asinine beliefs.

If I put you in Isreal, Turkey, many places in Africa, Middle East, where you would have to actively attract people (instead finding straight up YES girl as girls who are willing to have sex with you are .1%) I think you'd very quick to jump off your bullshit ideas.

It's nice that you could have a setup where your hilariously incorrect (like you need to go out for a week to disprove it level of incorrect) limiting beliefs are not challenged and you have the luxury to be wrong and be successful at the same time but that doesn't apply to most people.

That's all I'm saying.

As someone who absolutely crushed it in the party scene in Berlin and also absolutely crushed it in the closed, vastly "virginity is crucial", society in a country in the Middle East.

That's all I'm saying.

 

[Sub-Zero]

@Sub-Zero,

Still a mystery to me.

A lot of attraction is still a mystery to me.

You walk into a train station and a beautiful girl looks at you, and is obviously attracted. If you walk up and talk to her she is way into it. If you text her she comes on the date. When you invite her home she falls into your bed. When you ask her to keep coming over she turns into your girlfriend. Why was she so into you from that first moment, before even you met? Was it because of your hair? Clothes? Posture? Walk?

Well, maybe. But maybe not. Because that same thing use to happen to me when I had a fat face and a beer gut and sloppy clothes and a $12 haircut. Or at least, the initial meeting did... I did not know what to do with women back then. But the initial attraction was exactly the same.

Fundamentals are part of it, because the better those get, the more often this will happen to you.

But there is also something else happening aside from that.

If you look at most couples, you will notice 75%+ of them have strong facial similarities. Similar face shapes, nose shapes, eyes and mouths, etc.

To the point where nowadays I will see some rich or famous guy, and notice the woman he is with, and say "Whoa, why did he choose HER? He could've chosen a girl so much prettier than her... that girl is not really attractive at all..." then I will look at their faces and realize they look a lot alike.

And people are attracted to other people who look like them.

While the girl is not attractive to me, there is a good chance she is beautiful to him.

So probably when they saw each other there was an initial attraction due to facial similarity.

Might well be when I was a schlubby guy the girls who were responding to me were girls facially similar to me (unconsciously for us both).

Might've been an MHC gene thing.

Or something else subconscious that neither of us were aware of.

Some girls like the guys who have a little extra padding (just like there are guys who like girls who are a little overweight).

I had a girlfriend I got when my fundamentals were still pretty bad (still had my gut and crappy clothes and haircut, though posture and voice were a bit improved), and once I'd improved a lot more, one day she told me she probably would not have dated me if I was like this when she met me because she would've felt like I was out of her league. This girl was very beautiful (even once my fundamentals were good), and was also quite prideful, so not a self-esteem thing at all... but she and another confident beautiful girl I was friends with each separately told me they preferred to date guys who were impressive but not super impressive, because they felt like they could not "keep" guys when those guys got too impressive (and I guess maybe that was an accurate feeling, since ultimately that relationship did end).

"Why do people want the mates they want?" is such a layered subject it is completely impossible to nail down any one specific thing or even handful of specific things as predominant causes.

Chase

Thanks man

 

[Razorjack]

@Fluxcapacitor

I'll take a crack at breaking this "hijack her system" down to you, at least how I do it.

I've never explained this to anybody before, so it may take a few iterations with Q&A to structure this properly, it's a bit complex (which is why it's not taught nowadays ) but just bear with me

I'm not sure if availability can sum this up but if a girl is totally not interested in your time and won't talk to you nothing can flip this around in this moment. Social proof and pre selection or something to make her re evaluate you is all you can do - unless it's her availability that's the issue. This can be out of your control. It would be alot off hard work to build compliance from this.

I guess maybe a baseline of compliance? If they're so un compliant and anti social to you you're out. Obviously. But how many extremely harsh rejections do you face?

@greenleaf dude! Night game in clubs is my main game and I'm also in the UK. I've never had a palm in my face but I've had girls immediately walk off or flat out ignore me. The ones that put there palm in your face I highly doubt you can hijack their system with any method. I could be wrong but there's no baseline here you'd need to peak her interest through pre selection or social proof similar to razorjacks options.

After 2 years into my PU journey, I never got an extremely harsh rejection, I'll try to explain why.

First you may be misunderstanding something. It's not I approach, she puts palm in my face and I hijack her system. It's more like I approach, so she ends up in "my sphere of influence" that hijacks her system and she is completely receptive so she never puts her palm in my face to begin with.

I need to introduce this term, "sphere of influence", by the way I don't know if there is an official term for this, this just the only way I can describe it. But more on this later

Continuing on....

Question: Why do people in a church behave one way and the same people in a nightclub behave another way?

And more importantly what is causing them to change and adapt their behavior (or let's say compliance )?

It is some form of authoritative influence, it dictates how people behave in church, another authoritative influence at a work office, another at a bar / nightclub.

Hope you're with me so far.

Now, this authoritative influence, who owns it exactly or what is it exactly? It'll be different things in different places, at the work office it could be the highest boss, at church the head priest or group of priests etc. But it is they that dictate and influence other people's behavior.

So a couple of questions come up:

1. Is the authority figure (person with authoritative influence) only have authoritative influence in the place or can he / she take it with him to wherever they go?
2. If he/she can take it with him then what does it take for example to make people in a nightclub behave as if they are in church?

The answers:

1. Yes, they can take it with them (however most of them and other people don't realize this)
2. Super tight mental frame or as @Teevster put it in the OP: "Really tight and powerful game!"

So how can this be applied to hijack her system?

We need to go back to this "Spehere of influence" I mentioned earlier.

Hopefully you are familiar with concept of Awareness Radius (AR?), basically how far your awareness what is happening around you, extends. What if I told you that you also have a "sphere of influence?" This is the sphere around you that influences the people around you.

Believe it or not you do this already, for example with your FWB relationships, the girls fall in line with your mental frame. You are the authority figure and your mental frame is the authoritative influence when you interact and hook up with your FWBs

What we are talking about is AMPLIFYING THE SHIT OUT of your mental frame (increase your "sphere of influence") AND taking it with you outside of your bedroom to the nightclub to include new girls that put their palms up in guys' faces.

This is what @Teevster meant when he wrote in the OP that you need "Really tight and powerful game!" together with "VERY strong and powerful material - i.e. things that are so powerful that you hijack her system and you also need to deliver it almost crisp perfect"

The way I would describe it is you need to have total belief in your mental frame with zero incongruence (just like with your FWBs) but amplified to the max. So that when you approach the girl, you place her into your "sphere of influence" or let's say you hijack her system the same way that your mental frame dominates your FWB girls.

If you've ever read some of my LRs from my mASF days, I sometimes referred to being in "PU God Mode" this is what I was referring to, my "sphere of influence" was MASSIVE and POWERFUL, that's how I did the unreal shit that most guys on here think is impossible.

Ok, I know this concept might seem abstract and complex so there is probably alot of questions, so fire away.

 

[Sub-Zero]

@Fluxcapacitor

I'll take a crack at breaking this "hijack her system" down to you, at least how I do it.

I've never explained this to anybody before, so it may take a few iterations with Q&A to structure this properly, it's a bit complex (which is why it's not taught nowadays ) but just bear with me







After 2 years into my PU journey, I never got an extremely harsh rejection, I'll try to explain why.

First you may be misunderstanding something. It's not I approach, she puts palm in my face and I hijack her system. It's more like I approach, so she ends up in "my sphere of influence" that hijacks her system and she is completely receptive so she never puts her palm in my face to begin with.

I need to introduce this term, "sphere of influence", by the way I don't know if there is an official term for this, this just the only way I can describe it. But more on this later

Continuing on....

Question: Why do people in a church behave one way and the same people in a nightclub behave another way?

And more importantly what is causing them to change and adapt their behavior (or let's say compliance )?

It is some form of authoritative influence, it dictates how people behave in church, another authoritative influence at a work office, another at a bar / nightclub.

Hope you're with me so far.

Now, this authoritative influence, who owns it exactly or what is it exactly? It'll be different things in different places, at the work office it could be the highest boss, at church the head priest or group of priests etc. But it is they that dictate and influence other people's behavior.

So a couple of questions come up:

1. Is the authority figure (person with authoritative influence) only have authoritative influence in the place or can he / she take it with him to wherever they go?
2. If he/she can take it with him then what does it take for example to make people in a nightclub behave as if they are in church?

The answers:

1. Yes, they can take it with them (however most of them and other people don't realize this)
2. Super tight mental frame or as @Teevster put it in the OP: "Really tight and powerful game!"

So how can this be applied to hijack her system?

We need to go back to this "Spehere of influence" I mentioned earlier.

Hopefully you are familiar with concept of Awareness Radius (AR?), basically how far your awareness what is happening around you, extends. What if I told you that you also have a "sphere of influence?" This is the sphere around you that influences the people around you.

Believe it or not you do this already, for example with your FWB relationships, the girls fall in line with your mental frame. You are the authority figure and your mental frame is the authoritative influence when you interact and hook up with your FWBs

What we are talking about is AMPLIFYING THE SHIT OUT of your mental frame (increase your "sphere of influence") AND taking it with you outside of your bedroom to the nightclub to include new girls that put their palms up in guys' faces.

This is what @Teevster meant when he wrote in the OP that you need "Really tight and powerful game!" together with "VERY strong and powerful material - i.e. things that are so powerful that you hijack her system and you also need to deliver it almost crisp perfect"

The way I would describe it is you need to have total belief in your mental frame with zero incongruence (just like with your FWBs) but amplified to the max. So that when you approach the girl, you place her into your "sphere of influence" or let's say you hijack her system the same way that your mental frame dominates your FWB girls.

If you've ever read some of my LRs from my mASF days, I sometimes referred to being in "PU God Mode" this is what I was referring to, my "sphere of influence" was MASSIVE and POWERFUL, that's how I did the unreal shit that most guys on here think is impossible.

Ok, I know this concept might seem abstract and complex so there is probably alot of questions, so fire away.

So basically treat all women like how I would treat one that I’m in a FWB relationship with?

 

[Razorjack]

Something that it was either flatron or another user made me aware of, was that never the the history of PUA, has there been a LR or a video that captured a guy turning around a Red, and then proceeding to lay her that night.

The girls in their LRs always start with "then then I saw her looking/smiling at me across the room" "I opened her on her jacket/dress, and then she turned to me and smiled"

The girls in their LRs/Infields were always interested/receptive to the PUA. There was no "she completely blanked me on the open, so then I did XYZ and then I banged her"

If there's ever a guy fucking a girl that was a Red, it either happens on the day2, or day3, or several months from the night you originally met...through sheer persistence/game.

My game is centered on screening girls for sex that night. And with Reds, I dont see that happening (not talking about girls shit testing you either. I get shit tested all the time from greens and neutrals lol). Especially considering the fact there currently exists no evidence its ever been done

No one has ever video recorded a quark, an electron, dark matter, dark energy, the big bang, etc either.

Believe it or not some of the best guys I know don't go around filming their interactions with women to please a bunch of YouTube fans and skeptical wannabe seducers.

 

[pinpin]

VERY strong and powerful material - i.e. things that are so powerful that you hijack her system and you also need to deliver it almost crisp perfect

what about that stuff though? Verbals Examples of what you say to force attraction (hijack her system) in a young girl who thinks you're ugly and wants you to go away in a nightclub lol