FR Back to her place; asked to leave. When to make a move?

[lux7]

I met this girl that I already know a bit but with whom nothing happened so far.

She had been asking for a possible meetup more than once.

PARK AND WAY HOME
We went to the park, she brought most of the picnic gears and I was (a bit) late as usual.
We sat and drank wine for like 30 mins.
It started raining so she proposed a pub, I proposed my place but then we settle for hers as she had left the windows open.

She had to wake up at 6, so I said "damn, does it mean I have to wake up at 6 as well?".
I wasn't even thinking about the implications, it just came natural to ask and she said "you won't stay for sure", but then added "I can give you spare keys".

ON THE TRAM
In the 1st tram she was standing really really close to me.
On the 2nd tram we were sitting, I had the biscuits between my legs and when she took one she smiled and said "smart move" hinting at the fact she had to reach close to my crotch to get one.

HER PLACE
At her place she lightens the candle, she says to "make the atmosphere, but nothing will happen don't expect anything". I said "I don't expect anything". Maybe I should have shut up .
I sat on a couch, she slouched to another one in front.

She asked if I was seeing someone, I said "nobody in particular". She was seeing someone, and wasn't sure if she wanted it to get more serious.

A couple of times we just looked at each other and she raised the eyebrows twice, quickly, an expression I've never seen but that I interpreted as a possible IOI for a move.

We were talking, and I thought about making a move when the bottle of wine was at around half (didn't feel like taking the risk to possibly break the mood too soon and possibly being asked to leave, I wanted to enjoy the wine/food at least a bit ).
But she lit up a joint, which I only later realized had no tobacco in it and was really strong.
A bit high and drunk, I didn't think much about the sexual escalation thinking it might have naturally morphed into just moving to bed together.
She was high and not much sexual tension after that. Soon after she got terribly sleepy.

BOOTED OUT
I realized my time was over too late, when she got up to check the tram connections.
I said "oh, you're kicking me out", to which she replied she had to wake up really early.

I invited her to sit with me more than once, even got up to extend my hand a bit while she walked away from the PC. Insisted a bit, not too desperately I believe , but nothing by then.
The good mood and vibe was totally gone, just a tired girl now.

At the door I lingered on for the hug to go for a kiss, but nothing, as I expected.

Waiting for the tram I thought about a last attempt text saying I would have liked to sleep there, but deemed it as desperate and left it there.


YOUR OPINIONS
When would you have done the move?
Park, too soon I thought.
Good vibes in the tram, both cool and relaxed, sipping the wine. Maybe I could have put my arm around her while we were sitting close?
Writing her now, the day after, or leave it like this?

I'd appreciate your opinions .

 

[Laowai]

Re: Back to her place but asked to leave: when to make the m

You're providing absolutely no clue as to how you know this girl, how you built attraction, why you like this girl (qualification), how you built comfort. Did you do any of these things? You also didn't have a very strong plan about leading the interaction. You come across as indecisive in your FR, leaving things to chance that should be as much in your control as you can get it.

Congrats on getting back to her place, even though you didn't lead. BUT... You should have started kinoing and gauging her response to it from the moment you met in the park. Suddenly throwing an arm around her out of nowhere is awkward.

You could have moved to become physical at her place by dancing with her, spinning her around, comparing heights, comparing hand-sizes, etc. Don't sit on separate chairs.

She is chasing you several times, and takes you back to her place. You are socially unsavvy and lessen your own chances "do I have to get up at 6 as well?" by setting expectations.

Her: "smart move" - she is being flirtatious. You could have flipped this around and played a chase-me frame on her.

Her: "to make the atmosphere - but don't expect anything to happen". Most likely throwing up token resistance. Her saying: "don't expect anything" indicates that she has already thought about stuff happening which indicates that you might have gotten intimate. Good job on not reacting to this, but you should have said "of course not", then moved in to kiss her.

She intoxicates herself, possibly to deal with her nerves of potentially banging out (girls sometimes do this by smoking a cigarette or having one more drink), or to give herself plausible deniability: "I was high, so it just happened".

This girl likes you. STOP monkeying around and make things happen. You have to be more assertive, lead better, and be more aggressive with a girl like this. She throws herself at you, and you do nothing. DO.

For now: text her back ASAP so she doesn't feel rejected or that you're the kind of guy who won't make things happen. Set up a new date close to your place, lead her there, bang her there.

 

[lux7]

Re: Back to her place but asked to leave: when to make the m

You're providing absolutely no clue as to how you know this girl, how you built attraction, why you like this girl (qualification), how you built comfort. Did you do any of these things? You also didn't have a very strong plan about leading the interaction. You come across as indecisive in your FR, leaving things to chance that should be as much in your control as you can get it.

Congrats on getting back to her place, even though you didn't lead. BUT... You should have started kinoing and gauging her response to it from the moment you met in the park. Suddenly throwing an arm around her out of nowhere is awkward.

You could have moved to become physical at her place by dancing with her, spinning her around, comparing heights, comparing hand-sizes, etc. Don't sit on separate chairs.

She is chasing you several times, and takes you back to her place. You are socially unsavvy and lessen your own chances "do I have to get up at 6 as well?" by setting expectations.

Her: "smart move" - she is being flirtatious. You could have flipped this around and played a chase-me frame on her.

Her: "to make the atmosphere - but don't expect anything to happen". Most likely throwing up token resistance. Her saying: "don't expect anything" indicates that she has already thought about stuff happening which indicates that you might have gotten intimate. Good job on not reacting to this, but you should have said "of course not", then moved in to kiss her.

She intoxicates herself, possibly to deal with her nerves of potentially banging out (girls sometimes do this by smoking a cigarette or having one more drink), or to give herself plausible deniability: "I was high, so it just happened".

This girl likes you. STOP monkeying around and make things happen. You have to be more assertive, lead better, and be more aggressive with a girl like this. She throws herself at you, and you do nothing. DO.

For now: text her back ASAP so she doesn't feel rejected or that you're the kind of guy who won't make things happen. Set up a new date close to your place, lead her there, bang her there.

I loved this reply! .

Well, I actually met her 4 times, so no need to build any comfort. We're pretty comfortable around each other on anything but the sexual area.
I'd say she's almost a friend by now.

1st time around she had a BF and we were with common friends.

2nd time 2 beers by the river in the early evening, she also had a BF and I just considered it a "pre evening out with a friend".

3rd time, some months after the 2nd time, she was asking for the meet several times, we were at my place, as I expected I got to know she was now single but rather than making the move there I thought to go to a place close by and then bounce back to my place (I really wanted to go that place that evening, even though she really didn't like that idea much, I had to push for that).
On the way to the night spot I went for the hand holding but she refused it and then parted, I went by myself, honestly, not minding too much (I have a FR on another website). In spite of not making the move, I must have come across as a player or attractive as she later asked sorry and asked with how many girls did I come back home.

This is the 4th time (she drunk called me before and texted me late once, but I was at a friend's flat party and we didn't meet, the day after she said she was glad I didn't meet her as she was too drunk) .

I guess partly it's that I've never considered her too attractive (I didn't remember her too well, this last time she was quite cute and would have liked sleeping with her) and the fact she was a bit chasing, well.. It relaxes you a bit (works for guys too at times).
And most of it, I played my cards pretty badly. The plan was loose, go for the picnic and once wine was finished invite to my place. Agree with indecisiveness, lack of leading, fear of breaking the mood.

Maybe I could have said I preferred to sit close to each other since the beginning? Would have seemed a bit awkard as the couches were small and sitting in front was just more comfortable. And once you sitting opposite, making the move is a lot of effort as you gotta get up and do those couple of steps.

If I don't care much about somebody things are easier, but I enjoy my time with this person, like her personality and would like her around -even if not to the point that I'm too scared to make a move to lose her-.
I guess the "friend zone thing" can work for guys too

 

[lux7]

Re: FR: Back to her place; asked to leave. When to make a mo

She now says she doesn't want to see me again "after my very inappropriate behaviour".
And after I asked if I had left the corkscrew and mints there she says she thrashed the mints.

Do you guys think it's a question of "auto rejection/distorted remembering"?
I absolutely didn't force things physically at all except for going for the awkward kiss at the door when I already knew it was too late but even there, backed off immediately.

Still, this reaction seems to me way over the top even considering the psychological distortion.

I wouldn't want it to affect me too much but if there's something that bothers me is having people feel bad because of me and here she comes blaming me for "very inappropriate behaviour", but who invites a guy home with a wine and then gets all worked up for a move?
It's actually affecting me, and not because I lost a chance, but because of what she's accusing me of...



How would you reply?
Make a joke if she also wants to make a Macumba on the corkscrew, or telling her what she's saying is unfair or... ?

 

[Laowai]

Re: FR: Back to her place; asked to leave. When to make a mo

It could be that she was angry with you for not making things happen that night, but her reaction is not very cool at all.

Otherwise, there could be something in the dialogue or some events at the picnic/her place that you've left out in the FR.

You have to stand by your decision to kiss her. I'm not sure about how to reply exactly in this situation, but you should say smth along the lines of:

"I could not help myself, you just looked so cute that night, and I got carried away by the moment. I think you're awesome, you know : )"

This communicates that you stand by your actions and are confident about them, it communicates that you are confident in your sexuality, it communicates that you like her romantically, and it communicates that you also like her as a person, any romance aside.

It also depends on whether you still want to keep her around as a friend. Try something like this and take it from there. Godspeed, Sir.

 

[lux7]

Re: FR: Back to her place; asked to leave. When to make a mo

It could be that she was angry with you for not making things happen that night, but her reaction is not very cool at all.

Otherwise, there could be something in the dialogue or some events at the picnic/her place that you've left out in the FR.

You have to stand by your decision to kiss her. I'm not sure about how to reply exactly in this situation, but you should say smth along the lines of:

"I could not help myself, you just looked so cute that night, and I got carried away by the moment. I think you're awesome, you know : )"

This communicates that you stand by your actions and are confident about them, it communicates that you are confident in your sexuality, it communicates that you like her romantically, and it communicates that you also like her as a person, any romance aside.

It also depends on whether you still want to keep her around as a friend. Try something like this and take it from there. Godspeed, Sir.

I think you make a great point of not being apologetic and it's a great reply, in case one wanted another chance.

Glad it wasn't just me to think it was a bit bitchy from her side .
If I've left something out, it's only because I didn't think it was important, so definitely everything "sexual" is in there, and I didn't break anything, I didn't steal anything... And I even rolled her one and left a bit of good wine there

Anyway, I was a bit emotional after that message and couldn't wait any longer for any suggestion so I replied, and it is:

“inappropriate behavior”, “erased from earth”, “leave it somewhere”? maybe you'd like to make a macumba on those mints as well?

Jokes aside, after your message I was a little angry and much disappointed for you to unfairly dump this much hate on me.
But I feel I’ve got a lot to be blamed for: after having been untimely –and hence awkward- I should have stayed 5 mins at the door to talk things out and prevent the “backward rationalization” and resentment to take hold.
And once you get there, you hardly can come back.

So yes, unless the flatmates will ask for the bottle opener you can keep it, and f they do ask I’ll direct them there, you know I’m jobless right now and need to save up

It might sound too apologetic, but I do really believe that it was me who made it awkward and that it hence up to me to make sure to have at least a smooth and friendly goodbye/clarification rather than fumbling a "it was nice to seeing you" after a desperate kiss move and blitzing away at the door like a kid who didn't get his toy and doesn't to be seen crying.

And at this point, I am not interested to leaving a door open for another meet up and would rather confirm this is it (unless she comes back asking for it again and asks sorry for her emotional outburst ).

 

[Laowai]

Re: FR: Back to her place; asked to leave. When to make a mo

There is a good learning experience for you here. You are REACTING. You are getting yourself emotional and making emotional decisions and outbursts. That's one of the most dangerous parts in human relationships. Things spoken or done in anger/disappointment, have a way of coming back to bite you in the arse.

Be aware next time you want to become emotional that it's not worth it. In this case you were not smooth where you could have been. I don't expect she'll want to continue a friendship after this, even though I do agree, she is the one who is more to blame.