Best players are anti-players

[Jan]

I would like to propose an opinion that best players don't look like players from the outside. By outside I mean both physical appearance, body language but also verbal expression.

I believe that if you present yourself as a player (alpha-male, fuckboy, whatever), you will trigger social ASD. You don't have to mention sex explicitly, its enough if you look like a guy who is looking for sex.

If you approach a woman and she is with her friends, her first, natural reaction is going to be to show her friends that she is not a slut. Because only sluts would be interested in players (guys who are looking for hookups). Even if she likes you a lot, her social conditioning will always be stronger. Fear of her friends judging her will guide her actions. The more playerish you look like, the more resistance you get.

Now, imagine the opposite situation. Let's say that you present yourself as a good guy, someone who on the outside looks like a nice guy, someone who "respects" women, would take her to number of dates, and possibly only propose sex whenever its culturally acceptable at this time. I think he would have a much easier card to play. Much less resistance. We can take it even further. Some heterosexual guys like to publicly claim that they are gay. There is zero resistance in this case, because its all about friendship. He could even sleep in the same bed with a girl (with her friends knowing it), and it would be ok. She can always say: "Everyone knows he's gay, so obviously there was nothing between two of us."

I'm really curious how would women react if I approached dressed as a priest

I think the more disarmingly you present yourself, the less resistance you get. For that reason, I think things like peacocking, alpha body language, direct sex talk, make it all more difficult for us.

I believe communicating sexual interest and desire should be communicated as subtle, discreet and minimum way as possible. Until isolation.

What are your thoughts about this?

 

[moom]

Been thinking about this as well recently. I remember reading an article by Chase along the lines of being disarming to everyone but the girl you're interested in. After you've isolated her, you can show her your "true" dirty playboy self. I've been looking for the article, can't seem to find it though

 

[Warped Mindless]

Nope.

I dress like a total “bad boy fuckboy” and am very sexual with my approaches. Works very well.

 

[Teevster]

There is some truth to your theory fir the reasons yoy list. Many of the best puas I know do not give any player vibe.

I have also seen average joes occasionally pull this way; and I stress the word occasionally because it cannot be deduced into a general rule.

However players are players because of the vibe they give off. There are cons to it as you mention but also pros. Those pros are usually a sexy attitude... tons of confidence as well as their "knowing how" to make it happen which can be deadly attractive to women.

My conclusion is this: players with a player vibe will get laid more often for the reasons I listed but will occasionally fail on some women for the reasons you listed.

Average joes tend to give off the opposite vibe of players and may come off as the opposite of the fuck boy which may be desirable to some women in some situatuons. However it would be odd to assume they are the best with women because of their anti player vibe. They are more outliers in the sense that they only get success occasionally with certain women ib certaib settings

That all said you are right that many (but not all) top tier players (mostly trained veteran puas) tend to get all the pros from the player vibe without the cons. That's why they are players with this anti-player vibe. They have the confidence and vobe of the player without triggering the ASD as well as other social defense mechanism. The reason i say these are mostly trained puas is because unlike plauers they are fully aware of ASD and other social defense mechanisms on conscious level and they know how to deal with them but avoiding triggering them in the first place.

This is why many beginners are in shock and even sometimes dissapointed when they see a veteran pua in action: it wasnt what they expected. They are nicer abd more humble with less of that stereotypical player vibe. I even wrote an article back then about how the best players are lowkey. This matches you analysis.

Good post. Looking forward to a good discussion.

Best,
Teevster/Alek

 

[Skills]

I would like to propose an opinion that best players don't look like players from the outside. By outside I mean both physical appearance, body language but also verbal expression.

I believe that if you present yourself as a player (alpha-male, fuckboy, whatever), you will trigger social ASD. You don't have to mention sex explicitly, its enough if you look like a guy who is looking for sex.

If you approach a woman and she is with her friends, her first, natural reaction is going to be to show her friends that she is not a slut. Because only sluts would be interested in players (guys who are looking for hookups). Even if she likes you a lot, her social conditioning will always be stronger. Fear of her friends judging her will guide her actions. The more playerish you look like, the more resistance you get.

Now, imagine the opposite situation. Let's say that you present yourself as a good guy, someone who on the outside looks like a nice guy, someone who "respects" women, would take her to number of dates, and possibly only propose sex whenever its culturally acceptable at this time. I think he would have a much easier card to play. Much less resistance. We can take it even further. Some heterosexual guys like to publicly claim that they are gay. There is zero resistance in this case, because its all about friendship. He could even sleep in the same bed with a girl (with her friends knowing it), and it would be ok. She can always say: "Everyone knows he's gay, so obviously there was nothing between two of us."

I'm really curious how would women react if I approached dressed as a priest

I think the more disarmingly you present yourself, the less resistance you get. For that reason, I think things like peacocking, alpha body language, direct sex talk, make it all more difficult for us.

I believe communicating sexual interest and desire should be communicated as subtle, discreet and minimum way as possible. Until isolation.

What are your thoughts about this?

Well your theory is a bit off, cause there is something called calibration... If you have the fuck boy player vibe then depending on the situation you will tone it down, or disqualify yourself or come across more humble and sweet. Those guys that come across overly playerish are sometimes either overcompensating which will fuck up the seduction or uncalibrated.... Now you can come across as overlish sexual vibe playerish as a method of screening but you will lose a lot girls but that girl you get will be down. (back in the days you could do this a lot in night game, now a days this has moved to online). I unfortunately have that playerish vibe you talk about and sometimes you get rejected from the go, but again there are ways around this(for example indirect or disqualifying yourself etc...). if you take a girl on multiple dates specially courtship ones (dinner, movie, miniature golf etc..) and come across as a nice guy you will not get laid, cause women will put you in the bf possibility application stack now she will screen you harder and look more strictly at your flaws, this does not work and you will get a peck on the cheek, it could work but exception no the norm.... After meeting the next time you meet fuck ideal, if not a second meet... more than 2 encounter/dates your probability go to shit...

what you are trying to say is guys that come under the radar, and yes they are leathal, there is a bi guy new natural or pua (sometimes i think he is pua, he looks like a pua), he is bi, come under the radar, very lethal,..... so yea coming under the radar is really good for the reasons you mention in the post... A lot of people even seducers make fun of the more feminine type of player, i roll my eyes cause is ridiculous they can be extremely lethal, cause the come under the radar...

actually one of my ways to deal with cockblock is that i coach my target to say "tell her i am your gay friend from highschool" specially when they are with a bf, hubby, or overly jealous macho dude present...

 

[trashKENNUT]

A lot of people even seducers make fun of the more feminine type of player, i roll my eyes cause is ridiculous they can be extremely lethal, cause the come under the radar...

Right...

 

[StrayDog]

Its true that advanced seductions often fly under the radar but, as some of these other guys have mentioned, its more of a vibe thing then how one is dressed. The reason the seductive aspects fly under the radar is because the dude is calibrating his vibe. Injecting the sexual vibe only at the right time. implying the intention through enuendo that is subtly directed towards the woman's sensibilities. She is able to pick up on the cues but onlookers only see two people chatting, smiling, laughing. Touch is used sparingly but with precision. If you two are hitting it off and there happens to be a bit more pda, the the pda almost has a wholesome vibe to it and never lingers too long. There is not some raunchy vibe. When you two are leaving together others are thinking "oh that makes sense, they are having a nice time together" not "oh damn they are definitely going to fuck right this instant." Or they might not even think much of/notice it at all "oh those two are leaving." They might not even know you are leaving together

There are acceptions of course. Sometimes with some girls sometimes you can just go full on witht he fuck boy vibes and since that's what she is wanting she will take the bait. But the key is it is calibrated to her and the surroundings.

Some environments are more conducive to low key vibes and some are more conducive to just partying and letting it all hang out. Hell, sometimes you can be a total rake, wear your shit half open at the country club (if that's your style, and clean up cause some frustrated suburban woman is look for a wild time. Even pros who project a bit more of an outwardly fuckboy vibe know how to exercise restraint. Knowing when to tone it down and dial it back up.

The way you dress does send certain signals but your vibe says more. Dressing with a touch of sexuality never hurts when worn well, and the man in the outfit knows how to calibrate.

So yes, a lot of advanced players are "anti players" , but they are still advertising the goods, so to speak, in subtle calibrated ways that are understood between him and the women. You have to advertise the goods, otherwise the seduction will go nowhere. Its just a matter of how, why, and, when you do it. Which is a matter of calibrating. The more refined your technique gets the more it is hard to detect. Its a bit like a slight of hand, with some solid social misdirection. She is aware (to one degree or another) you are doing a "magic trick" but she is happy with it because it is a damn good one.

Your outward style ranges though, and that just depends on the player, the typeof women he is attracting, and the environment.

 

[Rakehell]

I was reading up on 60yoc recently and he talked about something similar to this. Though he specified between coming under the radar as far as, verbal and physical intent, versus just your vibe especially in group dynamics:

With your vibe you are a huge threat but on the verbal level you come across as just a friendly, humble guy. You come in totally under the radar. As such, there is no need to break rapport or argue with other people. This makes you even more dangerous around women.
Non-verbal escalation is the preferred method. Physical escalations can be physically

rebuffed and compliments and sex talk can be verbally rejected. But non-verbal escalation can be tough to officially reject. She can't be sure if it's happening.
In this system there is no verbal escalation and there is only one move for physical escalation which is hand caressing. Also, because the seduction is mutual, arousal will be much easier because you are working together.

I’d imagine this could tie into your presentation as well.

If we were to lay out the pros and cons of looking like a fuck boy and a normal guy, i’d say they probably outweigh the latter.

It comes with built in preselection since you will be talked about, harder to get dubbed as a “nice guy” or bf candidate, you stand out from the crowd of other normal guy’s (if you can get a foot in and convey your vibe I guess it doesn’t matter), more respect from other guy’s (for me atleast, with the occasional insecure weirdo), it’s a built in screening tool, coupling it with a sexual vibe confirms your image (more preselection).

Some of the cons have already been discussed like: women auto rejecting based on your image, more likely to encounter ASD in group dynamics (though sometimes you get their friends blessing), and more likely to encounter issues based on how socially acceptable it’d look talking to you.

Alot of the cons can be negated with game, I believe the same goes for having a more “normal presentation”. There are pros and cons to both. Personally I’m camp fuck boy.

 

[Jan]

Hey guys, thanks for you answers.

I would like to present two additional examples/analogies to support my position better.

EXAMPLE 1 - Mr. White from Breaking Bad

Mr. White is a community-respected high school chemist (nice guy). As the show develops he also becomes a criminal (player). He sits in a very specific position as a criminal - his brother-in-law Han is a DEA agent. His high school chemist background, reputation and appearance gives him a perfect cover-up to fly under the radar of his brother-in-law. He is able to do this through most of the show because he maintains his good guy vibe. Now, imagine what would happen if he started to present himself as a criminal. As a matter of fact, the more he does this (by standing more on his two feet in social confrontations, buying expensive watch, buying expensive cars, etc) - the more trouble he gets, and more importantly, he gets unnecessary attention from Hank.

You see, I feel that our need to present ourselves as players stems from our ego. We have put a lot of work into this, and we want to be appreciated for our work. We don't just want to fuck another girl, we want to hear from her: "You are such a sexy boy, you seduced me on every step, thanks to your seductive skills it went so smooth. Thank you playaaa. Kiss"

In fact, I believe it is more likely that you hear that if you are discrete (anti-player) in social situations. She will appreciate that. She will appreciate your seduction skills because you kept her social reputation intact and still fucked her. Full package. It's more sophisticated than pure perseverance.

EXAMPLE 2 - Vatican High Priests

I'm reading a book from Frederic Martel about Catholic Church's highest members, cardinals, pope secretaries, arch-bishops, and all those other dudes, very high rank officials. The author is an investigative journalist and he spent 4 years talking talking to them, while writing this book.

Conclusions? Around 80% of the highest ranking Catholic Church officials are homosexual. Most of them are active homosexuals.

Ok, but how does this apply to the topic of this post? I'm pretty sure it's obvious to all of you that Catholic Church has a strong anti-homosexual stance. They consider it a grave sin. Its forbidden, etc.

Hmm, why is that they are so anti-gay if they are gay themselves?

That's how they fly under the radar. Best gays are anti-gays, to paraphrase my title

No one will suspect them of being gay, if they *publicly* shout to the world that being gay is a sin. No one will believe if they get accused of being gay - "Hahaha, how come he can be gay, can't you see how homophobic he is?" And so on.

The same is observed among normal politicians. Just to mention this Hungarian right-wing, strong anti-gay politician who was caught by Belgian police in a gay orgy during Corona times.

Conservative Hungarian official resigns after alleged ‘gay orgy’ escape - National | Globalnews.ca

Jozsef Szajer, a member of European Parliament, has resigned after he was caught defying a coronavirus lockdown at the party in Belgium.

globalnews.ca

Finally, consider this. You can't be in a secret society and wear a "Secret Society Member" t-shirt. Why? Secret society members can keep secrets, and you are demonstrating to everyone that you can't, just by wearing this t-shirt.

 

[trashKENNUT]

Injecting the sexual vibe only at the right time. implying the intention through enuendo that is subtly directed towards the woman's sensibilities. She is able to pick up on the cues but onlookers only see two people chatting, smiling, laughing. Touch is used sparingly but with precision. If you two are hitting it off and there happens to be a bit more pda, the the pda almost has a wholesome vibe to it and never lingers too long. There is not some raunchy vibe. When you two are leaving together others are thinking "oh that makes sense, they are having a nice time together" not "oh damn they are definitely going to fuck right this instant." Or they might not even think much of/notice it at all "oh those two are leaving." They might not even know you are leaving together

To mention,

I try to be specific on an incident. Because really, what is sexual vibe? What is all this things that we say that practically in the real world, it doesn't exist except by the virtue of signaling.

What is all this intangible things that every high level PUA guys talks about, but if you are new, this seems like a fairytale.

So back to the incident.

I was walking and about to enter a supermarket when I saw a beautiful woman from the back. I was looking at her, let myself enjoy the few seconds of the whole thing, while I was walking. Then as she slightly turns, she talks to the guy beside her while looking at the supermarket racks. In my assumption, she saw me a little bit.

As I was walking in front of her, she pause there for a moment.

She started walking backwards a bit. Enough to control society's narrative that she has not make a move but yet subtle enough that I notice that she is doing it and it happening in real time without her boyfriend knowing what just happened.

Now, there's 3 responses to this

1)Oh Zac is full of shit
2)What in the magic is this
3)How do I apply this

But let me reaffirm this with my old post.
We heading towards new territory in social dynamics.

How do Girlschase teach its students to control not only the society's narrative but also her narrative and you creating both of your new narrative, all at the same time.

MManaging 3 reality timelines at the same time.

An Overlook Focus Eye Contact

Hi Guys, I have been experimenting and also find myself quite intrigued by this phenomenon. I hope you guys can conjure this one up. This happens mostly in trains. I give two scenes, what exactly happens, because i can't remember the outlay of the details of the other places, and it's not in...

www.skilledseducer.com

I sincerely hope that Girlschase @Chase has recognize it or another business will have the edge over it, once they know how to commodotize this knowledge and make it simple for guys who is trying to learn pickup/sales.

z@c+

 

[StrayDog]

EXAMPLE 1 - Mr. White from Breaking Bad

Mr. White is a community-respected high school chemist (nice guy). As the show develops he also becomes a criminal (player). He sits in a very specific position as a criminal - his brother-in-law Han is a DEA agent. His high school chemist background, reputation and appearance gives him a perfect cover-up to fly under the radar of his brother-in-law. He is able to do this through most of the show because he maintains his good guy vibe. Now, imagine what would happen if he started to present himself as a criminal. As a matter of fact, the more he does this (by standing more on his two feet in social confrontations, buying expensive watch, buying expensive cars, etc) - the more trouble he gets, and more importantly, he gets unnecessary attention from Hank.

Walter White is a fictional character for one, for two his game is drugs. Drug dealing and seduction are two different hustles. The social elements at play are completely different.

You see, I feel that our need to present ourselves as players stems from our ego. We have put a lot of work into this, and we want to be appreciated for our work. We don't just want to fuck another girl, we want to hear from her: "You are such a sexy boy, you seduced me on every step, thanks to your seductive skills it went so smooth. Thank you playaaa. Kiss"

In fact, I believe it is more likely that you hear that if you are discrete (anti-player) in social situations. She will appreciate that. She will appreciate your seduction skills because you kept her social reputation intact and still fucked her. Full package. It's more sophisticated than pure perseverance.

EXAMPLE 2 - Vatican High Priests

I'm reading a book from Frederic Martel about Catholic Church's highest members, cardinals, pope secretaries, arch-bishops, and all those other dudes, very high rank officials. The author is an investigative journalist and he spent 4 years talking talking to them, while writing this book.

Conclusions? Around 80% of the highest ranking Catholic Church officials are homosexual. Most of them are active homosexuals.

Ok, but how does this apply to the topic of this post? I'm pretty sure it's obvious to all of you that Catholic Church has a strong anti-homosexual stance. They consider it a grave sin. Its forbidden, etc.

Hmm, why is that they are so anti-gay if they are gay themselves?

That's how they fly under the radar. Best gays are anti-gays, to paraphrase my title

This is a very different set of social circumstances than seduction. Maybe if you are rolling in puritanical, sexually conversation circles, all the time. Then maybe you calibrate your look to match the scene. But that is still just your look. How you act is what ultimately aids or betrays you.

Finally, consider this. You can't be in a secret society and wear a "Secret Society Member" t-shirt. Why? Secret society members can keep secrets, and you are demonstrating to everyone that you can't, just by wearing this t-shirt.

Dressing with a touch of sexuality only signals possibility, not probability. It is not like you are wearing an official uniform. Discretion is about how you operate. What moves you make when. Not necessarily about what you are wearing. When you leave together no one is going "damn that slut is leaving with that obvious fuck boy" just because of a shirt you are wearing. Just because you are dressed like a grade school teacher doesn't mean inheritantly mean you are being discreet. If no one sees you flirting and you two leave at separate times, that's still discreet no matter what you were wearing. Discretion is all relative to the scene you are in, and how you operate.

When it comes to seduction, dressing in an attractive manner has more pros than cons. There are more elements at play than only considering how to be discreet. Yes discretion is important, it it is not the only thing. The way you dress is just one tool in the tool kit, and its really just about how you use that tool, not the tool itself

 

[Jan]

There is some truth to your theory fir the reasons yoy list. Many of the best puas I know do not give any player vibe.

I have also seen average joes occasionally pull this way; and I stress the word occasionally because it cannot be deduced into a general rule.

However players are players because of the vibe they give off. There are cons to it as you mention but also pros. Those pros are usually a sexy attitude... tons of confidence as well as their "knowing how" to make it happen which can be deadly attractive to women.

My conclusion is this: players with a player vibe will get laid more often for the reasons I listed but will occasionally fail on some women for the reasons you listed.

Average joes tend to give off the opposite vibe of players and may come off as the opposite of the fuck boy which may be desirable to some women in some situatuons. However it would be odd to assume they are the best with women because of their anti player vibe. They are more outliers in the sense that they only get success occasionally with certain women ib certaib settings

That all said you are right that many (but not all) top tier players (mostly trained veteran puas) tend to get all the pros from the player vibe without the cons. That's why they are players with this anti-player vibe. They have the confidence and vobe of the player without triggering the ASD as well as other social defense mechanism. The reason i say these are mostly trained puas is because unlike plauers they are fully aware of ASD and other social defense mechanisms on conscious level and they know how to deal with them but avoiding triggering them in the first place.

This is why many beginners are in shock and even sometimes dissapointed when they see a veteran pua in action: it wasnt what they expected. They are nicer abd more humble with less of that stereotypical player vibe. I even wrote an article back then about how the best players are lowkey. This matches you analysis.

Good post. Looking forward to a good discussion.

Best,
Teevster/Alek

“There is some truth to your theory fir the reasons yoy list. Many of the best puas I know do not give any player vibe.”

Yes, I saw that too. I immediately thought about Johnny Soporno and Dan Perion. Johnny is a fat, old, balding guy with a lay count of over 3000. His seduction style is based on being disarming, making friends with her and being a guy who doesn’t count.

I agree that you can’t pull numbers as average joe. But you can get lower resistance and… you do extremely well if you “know how” but do it all in a discrete manner.

“That all said you are right that many (but not all) top tier players (mostly trained veteran puas) tend to get all the pros from the player vibe without the cons. That's why they are players with this anti-player vibe. They have the confidence and vobe of the player without triggering the ASD as well as other social defense mechanism. The reason i say these are mostly trained puas is because unlike plauers they are fully aware of ASD and other social defense mechanisms on conscious level and they know how to deal with them but avoiding triggering them in the first place.”

This pretty much summarizes my whole point. Thanks

"This is why many beginners are in shock and even sometimes dissapointed when they see a veteran pua in action: it wasnt what they expected. They are nicer abd more humble with less of that stereotypical player vibe. I even wrote an article back then about how the best players are lowkey. This matches you analysis.”

Full circle: nice guy with no game -> becoming a player/getting skills (overcompensating) -> nice guy with game (boom)

 

[Jan]

Well your theory is a bit off, cause there is something called calibration... If you have the fuck boy player vibe then depending on the situation you will tone it down, or disqualify yourself or come across more humble and sweet. Those guys that come across overly playerish are sometimes either overcompensating which will fuck up the seduction or uncalibrated.... Now you can come across as overlish sexual vibe playerish as a method of screening but you will lose a lot girls but that girl you get will be down. (back in the days you could do this a lot in night game, now a days this has moved to online). I unfortunately have that playerish vibe you talk about and sometimes you get rejected from the go, but again there are ways around this(for example indirect or disqualifying yourself etc...). if you take a girl on multiple dates specially courtship ones (dinner, movie, miniature golf etc..) and come across as a nice guy you will not get laid, cause women will put you in the bf possibility application stack now she will screen you harder and look more strictly at your flaws, this does not work and you will get a peck on the cheek, it could work but exception no the norm.... After meeting the next time you meet fuck ideal, if not a second meet... more than 2 encounter/dates your probability go to shit...

what you are trying to say is guys that come under the radar, and yes they are leathal, there is a bi guy new natural or pua (sometimes i think he is pua, he looks like a pua), he is bi, come under the radar, very lethal,..... so yea coming under the radar is really good for the reasons you mention in the post... A lot of people even seducers make fun of the more feminine type of player, i roll my eyes cause is ridiculous they can be extremely lethal, cause the come under the radar...

actually one of my ways to deal with cockblock is that i coach my target to say "tell her i am your gay friend from highschool" specially when they are with a bf, hubby, or overly jealous macho dude present...

I guess we can agree that the name of the game is calibration. Playing the anti-player card is type of calibration - social or environment type of calibration. You don't need this online or when you are dealing with a single set either day or night game. Because ASD is lower then. Online speaking, I had success with openers like this: "ANNA! You have amazing hair and such a lovely smile. Let me be honest with you. I'm looking for fun here, how about you.". It worked several times. But you need to calibrate in social situations. I think this is when the anti-player card has the most value.

I like your examples of feminine, bi or homo dudes. I even apply your example in day game. Next time I open a double set, I'm gonna go with "Damned, you are so hot I would take you home immediately if I wasn't gay."

You say "coming under the radar", I say "anti-player", but I guess we think the same.

 

[Jan]

Its true that advanced seductions often fly under the radar but, as some of these other guys have mentioned, its more of a vibe thing then how one is dressed. The reason the seductive aspects fly under the radar is because the dude is calibrating his vibe. Injecting the sexual vibe only at the right time. implying the intention through enuendo that is subtly directed towards the woman's sensibilities. She is able to pick up on the cues but onlookers only see two people chatting, smiling, laughing. Touch is used sparingly but with precision. If you two are hitting it off and there happens to be a bit more pda, the the pda almost has a wholesome vibe to it and never lingers too long. There is not some raunchy vibe. When you two are leaving together others are thinking "oh that makes sense, they are having a nice time together" not "oh damn they are definitely going to fuck right this instant." Or they might not even think much of/notice it at all "oh those two are leaving." They might not even know you are leaving together

There are acceptions of course. Sometimes with some girls sometimes you can just go full on witht he fuck boy vibes and since that's what she is wanting she will take the bait. But the key is it is calibrated to her and the surroundings.

Some environments are more conducive to low key vibes and some are more conducive to just partying and letting it all hang out. Hell, sometimes you can be a total rake, wear your shit half open at the country club (if that's your style, and clean up cause some frustrated suburban woman is look for a wild time. Even pros who project a bit more of an outwardly fuckboy vibe know how to exercise restraint. Knowing when to tone it down and dial it back up.

The way you dress does send certain signals but your vibe says more. Dressing with a touch of sexuality never hurts when worn well, and the man in the outfit knows how to calibrate.

So yes, a lot of advanced players are "anti players" , but they are still advertising the goods, so to speak, in subtle calibrated ways that are understood between him and the women. You have to advertise the goods, otherwise the seduction will go nowhere. Its just a matter of how, why, and, when you do it. Which is a matter of calibrating. The more refined your technique gets the more it is hard to detect. Its a bit like a slight of hand, with some solid social misdirection. She is aware (to one degree or another) you are doing a "magic trick" but she is happy with it because it is a damn good one.

Your outward style ranges though, and that just depends on the player, the typeof women he is attracting, and the environment.

"Its true that advanced seductions often fly under the radar but, as some of these other guys have mentioned, its more of a vibe thing then how one is dressed. The reason the seductive aspects fly under the radar is because the dude is calibrating his vibe. Injecting the sexual vibe only at the right time. implying the intention through enuendo that is subtly directed towards the woman's sensibilities. She is able to pick up on the cues but onlookers only see two people chatting, smiling, laughing. Touch is used sparingly but with precision. If you two are hitting it off and there happens to be a bit more pda, the the pda almost has a wholesome vibe to it and never lingers too long. There is not some raunchy vibe. When you two are leaving together others are thinking "oh that makes sense, they are having a nice time together" not "oh damn they are definitely going to fuck right this instant." Or they might not even think much of/notice it at all "oh those two are leaving." They might not even know you are leaving together"

Good summary of subleties. That's my point, in more detail.

"Some environments are more conducive to low key vibes and some are more conducive to just partying and letting it all hang out. Hell, sometimes you can be a total rake, wear your shit half open at the country club (if that's your style, and clean up cause some frustrated suburban woman is look for a wild time. Even pros who project a bit more of an outwardly fuckboy vibe know how to exercise restraint. Knowing when to tone it down and dial it back up."

I agree. Anti-player card is an environment calibration card, I talked more about this in the comment to Skillz's comment.

Good summary of subleties of my point.

 

[StrayDog]

@Jan hey just a heads up when you are type a response you can go back to any post in the thread, highlight an piece you want to quote. I little tab pops up next to the highlight that says "REPLY" if you click it it will insert it for you as a quote. Like this.

I would like to propose an opinion that best players don't look like players from the outside.

Makes all the text easier to sort through

Also, you reply to a post and it give you the entire post in quotes you can edit it by going into the quote and erasing anything you want. You can also break up the large quote into sections by putting your cursor where you want to make a.comment and hitting enter. That will break the quote up at the point for you so you can easily comment on each point without having to go back and re quote everything

 

[Jan]

@Jan hey just a heads up when you are type a response you can go back to any post in the thread, highlight an piece you want to quote. I little tab pops up next to the highlight that says "REPLY" if you click it it will insert it for you as a quote. Like this.


Makes all the text easier to sort through

Also, you reply to a post and it give you the entire post in quotes you can edit it by going into the quote and erasing anything you want. You can also break up the large quote into sections by putting your cursor where you want to make a.comment and hitting enter. That will break the quote up at the point for you so you can easily comment on each point without having to go back and re quote everything

Great, thanks

 

[Skills]

I guess we can agree that the name of the game is calibration. Playing the anti-player card is type of calibration - social or environment type of calibration. You don't need this online or when you are dealing with a single set either day or night game. Because ASD is lower then. Online speaking, I had success with openers like this: "ANNA! You have amazing hair and such a lovely smile. Let me be honest with you. I'm looking for fun here, how about you.". It worked several times. But you need to calibrate in social situations. I think this is when the anti-player card has the most value.

I like your examples of feminine, bi or homo dudes. I even apply your example in day game. Next time I open a double set, I'm gonna go with "Damned, you are so hot I would take you home immediately if I wasn't gay."

You say "coming under the radar", I say "anti-player", but I guess we think the same.

you misunderstood i say the overly player want to fuck stuff screening has move to aps more, in the context of my explanation.

 

[Will_V]

It's a good question that I don't think has a simple answer.

Anecdotally, for me, some of my best experiences in daygame have come after I've had a spell of go-nowhere interactions and flakes, and I've gone 'fuck it' and really pushed for what I want. But not in a desperate way, more like a deep realization that the only way out is straight through the middle. Or as my father likes to say about life in general 'the only way out is absolute success'.

Something very confusing in seduction is the question of expressing desire. As I believe was mentioned in a Girls Chase article (citing a study of some kind), one of the most fundamental ways that a woman is turned on is by feeling desired. But we all know that this is very tricky and it often doesn't seem to work that way. Yet I can say with certainty that my best and easiest seductions involved a very strong expression of desire on my part. Not a verbalisation, not gawping, etc, but a focus and intent well beyond the norms of social interactions that she felt and responded positively to. Something that looking back seems like it would have been risky, but in a certain way it felt to me at the time as if it made her comfortable and open to me.

In my opinion, when a girl rejects a 'player' a lot of the time it is actually a sort of lack of real sexual investment on his part. As if she perceives him as a 'professional', skilled but emotionally disconnected from what he does. As we all know girls loathe when a man treats her with a certain kind of expectation that feels dismissive.

But is being sexually invested (in a calibrated way), expressing desire and showing intent 'anti player'? I don't think so. It's more of an 'authentic player', someone who goes all in, who offers something of himself - his ego, his innocence, his emotions - together with his desire to simply bend her over and fuck her. In a way, it gives him an alluring attainability, in the domain where women feel most powerful.

 

[ulrich]

Johnny is a fat, old, balding guy with a lay count of over 3000. His seduction style is based on being disarming, making friends with her and being a guy who doesn’t count.

Doubt it.
Call me a nonbeliever but 3,000 lays means a new girl everyday from Monday to Saturday for 10 years straight with no LMR fuck ups.

I doubt someone has such gargantuan discipline.

 

[ulrich]

In my opinion, when a girl rejects a 'player' a lot of the time it is actually a sort of lack of real sexual investment on his part. As if she perceives him as a 'professional', skilled but emotionally disconnected from what he does. As we all know girls loathe when a man treats her with a certain kind of expectation that feels dismissive.

But is being sexually invested (in a calibrated way), expressing desire and showing intent 'anti player'? I don't think so. It's more of an 'authentic player', someone who goes all in, who offers something of himself - his ego, his innocence, his emotions - together with his desire to simply bend her over and fuck her. In a way, it gives him an alluring attainability, in the domain where women feel most powerful.

This is a good point, if by “player” you expect someone who is rehearsed, non-commital and emotionally distant… then you have a wrong model of how successful looks like.

Player stereotype behavior is not how high level players operate.