Best players are anti-players

[Jan]

Anecdotally, for me, some of my best experiences in daygame have come after I've had a spell of go-nowhere interactions and flakes, and I've gone 'fuck it' and really pushed for what I want. But not in a desperate way, more like a deep realization that the only way out is straight through the middle. Or as my father likes to say about life in general 'the only way out is absolute success'.

I had the same experience. Not long as a week ago, when I was walking tired and emotionally low, I felt the only thing that I had left is perseverance to stay in the field. Then I saw this 19years old big-titty, elegant chick and I immediately felt strong emotional and energetic high. I approached on that high immediately and it worked very well. We went to instadate. Didn't have many dates with a girl of this calibre. I agree that my vibe was more typical playerish, very direct, very close early on. Would it have worked if she was with friends? Would have feelings of being desired been stronger than her ASD? I don't know.

I totally agree agree that true desire plays an important role. I feel grateful for being in my current situation - I can quite easily get an instadate which means I can approach less (focus on chicks which really turn me on). And overall I don't feel like I wasted time even if I did only few approaches in the whole session

 

[Jan]

Doubt it.
Call me a nonbeliever but 3,000 lays means a new girl everyday from Monday to Saturday for 10 years straight with no LMR fuck ups.

I doubt someone has such gargantuan discipline.

You can easily find him online (youtube, other forums). He is in his 50s. I recommend this guy 100% regardless of your doubts.

 

[ulrich]

You can easily find him online (youtube, other forums). He is in his 50s. I recommend this guy 100% regardless of your doubts.

Will give him a check.

 

[Warped Mindless]

I come across as very playerish most of the time. Women love it.

More than one way to skin a cat. Once you get good at your “natural” style of game, try other ways. Be able to change it up and you will find even more success.

 

[Will_V]

I had the same experience. Not long as a week ago, when I was walking tired and emotionally low, I felt the only thing that I had left is perseverance to stay in the field. Then I saw this 19years old big-titty, elegant chick and I immediately felt strong emotional and energetic high. I approached on that high immediately and it worked very well. We went to instadate. Didn't have many dates with a girl of this calibre. I agree that my vibe was more typical playerish, very direct, very close early on. Would it have worked if she was with friends? Would have feelings of being desired been stronger than her ASD? I don't know.

I totally agree agree that true desire plays an important role. I feel grateful for being in my current situation - I can quite easily get an instadate which means I can approach less (focus on chicks which really turn me on). And overall I don't feel like I wasted time even if I did only few approaches in the whole session

Sounds like you made the most of the opportunity. Probably you'd have to tone it down in front of her friends - personally I almost always go for girls on their own, it suits my somewhat bohemian style of seduction.

One possible way of thinking about it is this: if she had to write a story about the seduction, would it be one she would enjoy reading?

Maybe she knows he's a scoundrel, or something like that, but good, satisfying stories can be written about scoundrels.

 

[Will_V]

This is a good point, if by “player” you expect someone who is rehearsed, non-commital and emotionally distant… then you have a wrong model of how successful looks like.

Player stereotype behavior is not how high level players operate.

That's part of it, but I also mean someone who has a profound effect on her that does not measure up to her sense of comfort and doesn't jive with her usual frame of reference for interactions with guys. In the sense that she expects to feel strongly compelled only by someone who she can at least rationalize as fitting into a certain frame of values that she has.

The idea is that it's you can come across as 'playerish' as long as she can say 'he was a bit of a player BUT...' and what she identifies as the redeeming factor is something that makes the whole thing meaningful for her. For me it's sometimes been a sort of 'all-in' attitude that probably signifies a kind of investment for her, or the possibility of her being able to capture my ambition.

 

[Teevster]

Yes, I saw that too. I immediately thought about Johnny Soporno and Dan Perion. Johnny is a fat, old, balding guy with a lay count of over 3000. His seduction style is based on being disarming, making friends with her and being a guy who doesn’t count.

Zan is Zan, he is more of relationship dude over a technical pick up artist. Not sure he is a good example here.

Johnny is a bald bullshiter. Guy is totally useless. Lay count of 3000? with his left hand you mean!

He was advocating a similar style to me, just less technical, but the philosophy was overall the same. His philosohy isn't wrong per se, but oversimplified. He also didn't have a technical toolset to convey it - making it somewhat useless.

I agree that you can’t pull numbers as average joe. But you can get lower resistance and… you do extremely well if you “know how” but do it all in a discrete manner.

You may still get resistance but for other reasons. For example the lack of sexual frame, as well as LMR caused by her seeing you as a provider. Again, you can't explain the world of man-to-woman dynamic with an oversimplified model, even though it can at times be very tempting.

Full circle: nice guy with no game -> becoming a player/getting skills (overcompensating) -> nice guy with game (boom)

I wouldn't consider myself or other seasoned PUAs nice guys with game.

I think it is just a matter of calibrating and use the right vibe and material at the right moment. Sometimes you need to go full blown player vibe, sometimes you shouldn't.

-Teevster