Can you be an older man and still be a 'lover' not a provider?

[DaVinciMatrixStyle]

Absolutely, I kept leveling up my skills and I bet most of the girls I've slept with would say I didn't hit my prime until 38-40+. I was shocked that 19yrs less than half my age would be eye-fucking me in the park when it started happening.

I would've never believed this either until I experienced what @DonGately is talking about myself. And I'm in my early 30s.

 

[hey_lover]

Women judge men on physical attractiveness when pursuing short term mates. All things being equal, a man in his 20's is more physically attractive than a man in his 30s and 40s. Why? Because of ageing. Signs of ageing is NOT physically attractive and no matter what you do to limit the erosive effect of time, you can't stop it. Skin elastosis, greying hairs, a receding hairline, wrinkles and so on negatively affects a man's SMV just like it does a woman's.

A man's effectiveness and success in any given field is not an indefinite upward trend. Potential is NOT unlimited and there's a ceiling to how high any man can rise. Every man peaks and then declines. When one peaks is determined by the parameters of the field and the starting point from when he begun his journey.

Given how long it takes to develop mastery and achieve major success. If you're someone who found game and looks maxxing in your late 20's/early 30's, then it serves to reason that your peak will come in that decade of your life and you will be more successful than you were in your 20s.

On the other hand, if you reached a high level of game in your twenties and your fundamentals were completely maxxed by 25, then it will be a slow but sure decline as age and gravity eats away at you. Your game isn't going to get all that much better over the next 10 years but ageing will sure as hell will fuck you sideways.

I average 20,000-30,000 steps a day and I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a hot young woman with an older guy in the past 13 years that I've been daygaming. You almost never see it. However, when I frequent one of the most upscale areas in London's nightlife, I do see young girls and older guys, but I also see the street filled with Ferrari's and Bugatti's.

Do you think these women are going to be there if you take away the wealth? Part of what makes older men attractive are their resources relative to younger men but women seek that when they're looking for longer term mates. And that has becomes less and less pronounced since women joined the workforce and have been able to gather resources for themselves.

As men age, their physical attractiveness drops but their resources (should) increase and they begin leveraging that to get women, and the greater the resources the more beautiful the women. I've yet to see the the highest calibre of women anywhere else apart from being alongside the footballers, musicians, CEO's, celebrities etc. Guys leveraging huge status and resources.

Now there's a caveat to all of this. If your target demographic is within your own age, give or take a few years, then a man on a self-improvement journey will outperform himself as he grows older. He will have more tools to attract women his age, then he would have done when he was younger. He will have less competition just by virtue of most men succumbing to age and failing to limit its downside. Quadruply so, as women don't tend to date downwards (in age). However, if we're talking about older men getting 18-24 year olds, then the further you grow away from that range, the harder it will become. Then you will have to use resources to attract just like every other millionaire out there.

 

[DaVinciMatrixStyle]

I average 20,000-30,000 steps a day and I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a hot young woman with an older guy in the past 13 years that I've been daygaming. You almost never see it. However, when I frequent one of the most upscale areas in London's nightlife, I do see young girls and older guys, but I also see the street filled with Ferrari's and Bugatti's.

I'm currently 31. When I see people around my age, most of them are fat, balding, fit into a routine job, and lost that youth energy. I can barely count on one had how many dudes in their 30s are attractive, if at all.

However, guys in their 20s are still youthful, carefree, potential for more, etc.

I've met girls that are way younger than me. A few 18-19 year olds who work as waitresses. (I do look younger yes thanks to my diet, etc)
Personally, what I've found is that they say I'm 'young' and they're still active in chasing me. I recently also met a married couple. A man who was 42, a restaurant owner, married to a 23 year old.

Now I'm not saying, that's a general trend. But I'm saying there's WAY fewer attractive man in their 30s+ and up than your average 20 year olds. It's already hard to be attractive at 20 for your average man and it only gets harder for those men in 30s. If we're talking standard deviation, attractive men at 30s are probably way less likely.

You also said do you think that if you take away wealth, you can still attract younger girls. If you are older, have good fundamentals (I'm not even relatively successful), and have that youth energy, girls don't care especially if they feel attraction for you.

But these are just my personal references and I don't speak for all 30 year olds. Matter of fact, most 30 year olds can probably never believe that it's possible and that their time is up.

 

[hey_lover]

At 31 (just turned 33), I was seeing a 19 and 20 year old. The thing is, you're not competing against men YOUR AGE for young women. You're competing against men HER AGE. The fact that many men fall off a cliff works to a self-developing man's advantage when competing for women within his age group, in which case, the market place will never been easier. If you're 40 and in great nick, and you date women 45-35 years olds, you will clean up because like you said, most men let themselves go. However, in the pursuit of younger women, the older you get, the greater the social frame issue is for her to date someone older, and it's a HUGE obstacle that sees them auto-reject. Not to mention, that younger people are simply more physically attractive than older people. There are young women who exclusively want to date older mature guys (daddy issues types?), but these girls don't represent the majority and are exceptions.

 

[ulrich]

Being “proven” is a major attraction switch.
If you can prove you’re successful, you get attraction points. That is easier around your late 30s-40s than it is when you’re 20.

I was dating 22 years old at 35. It is not any more difficult as long as you stay healthy/attractive.

As a matter of fact, I find women in the 31-38 range to be much harder.
They are either in a hurry to find the right guy to marry or completely bitter.

 

[DaVinciMatrixStyle]

At 31 (just turned 33), I was seeing a 19 and 20 year old. The thing is, you're not competing against men YOUR AGE for young women. You're competing against men HER AGE. The fact that many men fall off a cliff works to a self-developing man's advantage when competing for women within his age group, in which case, the market place will never been easier. If you're 40 and in great nick, and you date women 45-35 years olds, you will clean up because like you said, most men let themselves go. However, in the pursuit of younger women, the older you get, the greater the social frame issue is for her to date someone older, and it's a HUGE obstacle that sees them auto-reject. Not to mention, that younger people are simply more physically attractive than older people. There are young women who exclusively want to date older mature guys (daddy issues types?), but these girls don't represent the majority and are exceptions.

I thought this was common sense. Yes, I am very aware I'm competing against other men in their 20s or her age. The fact is, if you developed your skills and have wealth, you'll out-compete men her age easily. But most men my age never developed the skills or build anything to compete against the men in 20's. Matter of fact, any girl that's hot and young will have endless supplies of men around their age group. That's a given.

If the men in 20s have a shot at becoming successful against a man who's relatively successful in their 30s, they will out-compete most men in their 20s.

The small portion of men in their 30s that have their shit together will wipe the floors with men in 20s. And no this isn't women with 'daddy issues'.

 

[Winston]

As a matter of fact, I find women in the 31-38 range to be much harder.
They are either in a hurry to find the right guy to marry or completely bitter.

This was the most puzzling thing that I noticed when I started doing daygame: Reactions from girls in the 18-25 age range where much more positive than from girls in their 30s. And this was not a slight difference, it was by a huge margin

Like you I ended up attributing this to the following two explanations:
- girls in their 30s are indeed bitter, less open to new encounters and to unpredictability
- girls in their 30s scan more according to "social" value (signs of status), rather than "fitness/health" value, and they make the automatic association "daygame=low status behavior"

 

[DaVinciMatrixStyle]

This was the most puzzling thing that I noticed when I started doing daygame: Reactions from girls in the 18-25 age range where much more positive than from girls in their 30s. And this was not a slight difference, it was by a huge margin

Like you I ended up attributing this to the following two explanations:
- girls in their 30s are indeed bitter, less open to new encounters and to unpredictability
- girls in their 30s scan more according to "social" value (signs of status), rather than "fitness/health" value, and they make the automatic association "daygame=low status behavior"

Same. Women in their 30s+ have way more standards and younger girls are way easier and playful.

 

[ulrich]

Like you I ended up attributing this to the following two explanations:
- girls in their 30s are indeed bitter, less open to new encounters and to unpredictability
- girls in their 30s scan more according to "social" value (signs of status), rather than "fitness/health" value, and they make the automatic association "daygame=low status behavior"

Not sure if they perceive it as “low status” as much as unrelatable. I think, they are simply not open to adventure.

“Cool, sexy stranger who has the confidence to open hot women in the streets?… get out, I’m looking for a husband!”

 

[DaVinciMatrixStyle]

Not sure if they perceive it as “low status” as much as unrelatable. I think, they are simply not open to adventure.

“Cool, sexy stranger who has the confidence to open hot women in the streets?… get out, I’m looking for a husband!”

Well said Uriel

 

[hey_lover]

I thought this was common sense. Yes, I am very aware I'm competing against other men in their 20s or her age. The fact is, if you developed your skills and have wealth, you'll out-compete men her age easily. But most men my age never developed the skills or build anything to compete against the men in 20's. Matter of fact, any girl that's hot and young will have endless supplies of men around their age group. That's a given.

If the men in 20s have a shot at becoming successful against a man who's relatively successful in their 30s, they will out-compete most men in their 20s.

The small portion of men in their 30s that have their shit together will wipe the floors with men in 20s. And no this isn't women with 'daddy issues'.

If that were true, then men in their 40s would out-compete (as lovers) even more and men in their 70s would be the biggest players around, given that they would have accumulated the most skills and wealth.

Except, it just doesn't play out like that in reality (when competing at a lover level) and older men end up leveraging provider value like wealth (like you said).

Anyway, that's all I have to say on the topic.

 

[DaVinciMatrixStyle]

If that were true, then men in their 40s would out-compete (as lovers) even more and men in their 70s would be the biggest players around, given that they would have accumulated the most skills and wealth.

Except, it just doesn't play out like that in reality (when competing at a lover level) and older men end up leveraging provider value like wealth (like you said).

Anyway, that's all I have to say on the topic.

Not really.

Most men work on wealth. They don't work on game. There's a difference.
But you believe whatever you want to believe. I know that for me in my 30s, my life is only getting better.

 

[sab]

An interesting thing I noticed is that some older women HATE IT when an older man goes after younger women. Even when they don't know you and you are a complete stranger to them. I had angry messages from some.

I think an older man can pull a younger woman if he is perceived as sexy and young acting and is perceived as high value. Would Mick Jaegger be able to still pull far younger girls? probably. Because of his status. But if you are not in that category, it is still possible you need good fundamentals and status to match.

 

[Skills]

so much speculating and theorizing based on OBSERVATIONS, Instead of all this speculation enjoy your age and keep seducing, bookmark this and come back when you are older, other wise tons of speculation and kjing...

 

[TomInHo]

Women judge men on physical attractiveness when pursuing short term mates. All things being equal, a man in his 20's is more physically attractive than a man in his 30s and 40s. Why? Because of ageing. Signs of ageing is NOT physically attractive and no matter what you do to limit the erosive effect of time, you can't stop it. Skin elastosis, greying hairs, a receding hairline, wrinkles and so on negatively affects a man's SMV just like it does a woman's.

That's not true at all.

I'm 33 and more physically attractive than ever. When a man takes care of himself women find the older, rugged, suave & fit male intoxicating. In extreme cases, I've had women approach me and force their numbers into my phone, and even had couples ask me to join them in the bedroom based off my looks alone. Never got any of that when I was in my 20's and I was always in shape back then too

A man's effectiveness and success in any given field is not an indefinite upward trend. Potential is NOT unlimited and there's a ceiling to how high any man can rise. Every man peaks and then declines. When one peaks is determined by the parameters of the field and the starting point from when he begun his journey.

Given how long it takes to develop mastery and achieve major success. If you're someone who found game and looks maxxing in your late 20's/early 30's, then it serves to reason that your peak will come in that decade of your life and you will be more successful than you were in your 20s.

I started looks maxxing as a teenager, and saw an insane uptick in my results in my 30's due to fundamentals alone

I average 20,000-30,000 steps a day and I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a hot young woman with an older guy in the past 13 years that I've been daygaming. You almost never see it. However, when I frequent one of the most upscale areas in London's nightlife, I do see young girls and older guys, but I also see the street filled with Ferrari's and Bugatti's.

Do you think these women are going to be there if you take away the wealth? Part of what makes older men attractive are their resources relative to younger men but women seek that when they're looking for longer term mates. And that has becomes less and less pronounced since women joined the workforce and have been able to gather resources for themselves.

Bro, I've dated girls in their 20's that made less money than me yet loved to spoil me. And ironically, some of them had young provider boyfriends that showered them with all kinds of attention, gifts, dates and romantic gestures while I was fucking them on the side with limited effort and investment. If they were only with an older man because of resources why would they do that?

My theory is that if you've been running game from a very young age and kept it up, when you're older you will be able to give women such a unique experience that they wouldn't give a damn about your age.

An older man has so much more to offer a younger woman than just resources

Now there's a caveat to all of this. If your target demographic is within your own age, give or take a few years, then a man on a self-improvement journey will outperform himself as he grows older. He will have more tools to attract women his age, then he would have done when he was younger. He will have less competition just by virtue of most men succumbing to age and failing to limit its downside. Quadruply so, as women don't tend to date downwards (in age). However, if we're talking about older men getting 18-24 year olds, then the further you grow away from that range, the harder it will become. Then you will have to use resources to attract just like every other millionaire out there.

I disagree.

There is actually a niche of women 18-24 that love older men, just like there is also a niche of women 35-40 that love younger men (Cougars)

All this is speculation, and as a man if you focus on maxing out your fundamentals and game you will do very well for a long time

 

[ulrich]

A guy in his 40s marrying a late 20-something is not that rare of a view.
A divorcee in his 50s with a woman in her 30s is also not that uncommon.

I agree that there’s probably a cap but it doesn’t seem lower than 20 years of difference.

 

[DaVinciMatrixStyle]

Exactly.

 

[Bismarck]

I think a lot of your views are skewed because you're an Indian living in London @hey_lover. Also, from what I understand you don't really know advanced verbal tech. Not saying this to criticize you, since I'm not exactly using the top-tier ammo myself.

Just wanna say that unless you play the real game, what you have to say has little bearing on what happens in real life - what will make young horny girls open their legs for you (a 33+-year-old male) as opposed to the guys they say they fuck for social frame purposes - it merely becomes a rehashing of the superficial (and untrue) slogans of the MSM.

From briefly wetting my feet recently I can say that hot girls in their early 20s in this day and age in the West are some of the most sexually liberated the world has known since the fall of Rome. They act like guys and brag about the guys they "fuck" (as if a girl could fuck a guy, unless she puts on a strap-on and takes his butt). This can even start at 18. They talk about not wanting to text, because they don't want to develop feelings. They fuck other girls. They shave their twats. We are basically living in a paradise, and I say let's make the most of it while it lasts.

I have to trial and error a bit more but I am certain from recent dalliances that they want to get fucked by a guy like me, and I'm 33 (will be 34 later this year). Note that I don't watch TV shows, Netflix, etc. I also don't play video games and am very careful with the movies I watch.

 

[DaVinciMatrixStyle]

I think a lot of your views are skewed because you're an Indian living in London @hey_lover. Also, from what I understand you don't really know advanced verbal tech. Not saying this to criticize you, since I'm not exactly using the top-tier ammo myself.

No wonder @hey_lover tried so hard to say men in 30's cant compete. It's because he cant. Makes sense.

 

[Lantern]

I'm 34. LTR of 11 years ended some 8 months ago.

First girl I bedded? 20 year old hottie.

Me? Good looking, in decent shape, but no male model. My own biz, but I'm by no means rich. I'd say I'm at a level that an averege guy can get to if he puts in the work throught the years.