Chics blow me off after knowing I'm Indian

[Spyce D]

Is this article applicable in this kind of situations ?

Playing Dumb When Girls Act Superior (Flip the Script!)

Sometimes girls will give strong opinions or try to lecture you. Rather than get annoyed, you can troll them on this… and seize control of the dynamic. Yesterday, in a forum post about how to respond to far-left girls engaging in political lectures/rants, Ricardus (remember him?), who is easing...

www.girlschase.com

 

[Gladiator]

Is this article applicable in this kind of situations ?

Playing Dumb When Girls Act Superior (Flip the Script!)

Sometimes girls will give strong opinions or try to lecture you. Rather than get annoyed, you can troll them on this… and seize control of the dynamic. Yesterday, in a forum post about how to respond to far-left girls engaging in political lectures/rants, Ricardus (remember him?), who is easing...

www.girlschase.com

I don't think so. This article helps when I want to just troll her or one up her for fun but that's not gonna help move forward with her.

She already starts with a negative frame. Best case scenario, she may find it funny and worst case, she'll feel even more annoyed. Either case, it won't help in seduction.

It's the same when you're attracted to a chic until you find out something negative about her. Even if she compensates with something else, your attraction would've already gone down.

 

[Will_V]

It's the same when you're attracted to a chic until you find out something negative about her. Even if she compensates with something else, your attraction would've already gone down.

What is it that a girl could tell you that is so negative that your attraction would go down, that isn't a question of her character or behavior, or some weird physical anomaly?

People often make very fast pre-judgements about other people based on some superficial characteristic, but these usually only last when the judgement is reinforced afterward. There is always a space after someone makes a judgement where they are looking for reinforcement, and may even treat the person as if the judgement is already certain, but in fact they are simply trying to get the other person to accept it so that they can be satisfied with their understanding of reality (which includes where they themselves fit into it relative to everything else).

To be truly persuasive in these situations you must be entirely free of being influenced emotionally by the initial judgement, because often what happens is that someone has already been 'forced' to accept a frame many times until they are no longer really able to shake themselves free of it, and their initial negative reaction is simply a means of expressing the frustration of having to do so again, without actually rejecting it.

That's why I believe @Chase has suggested that you do not defend yourself at all, because to do so is to react emotionally to the unwanted frame and become entangled in it.

 

[Gladiator]

What is it that a girl could tell you that is so negative that your attraction would go down, that isn't a question of her character or behavior, or some weird physical anomaly?

Why not character or behavior or physical anomaly? I can discover any of those too and those can be a deal breaker too.

People often make very fast pre-judgements about other people based on some superficial characteristic, but these usually only last when the judgement is reinforced afterward. There is always a space after someone makes a judgement where they are looking for reinforcement, and may even treat the person as if the judgement is already certain, but in fact they are simply trying to get the other person to accept it so that they can be satisfied with their understanding of reality (which includes where they themselves fit into it relative to everything else).

To be truly persuasive in these situations you must be entirely free of being influenced emotionally by the initial judgement, because often what happens is that someone has already been 'forced' to accept a frame many times until they are no longer really able to shake themselves free of it, and their initial negative reaction is simply a means of expressing the frustration of having to do so again, without actually rejecting it.

That's why I believe @Chase has suggested that you do not defend yourself at all, because to do so is to react emotionally to the unwanted frame and become entangled in it.

I meant in the context of the article that was shared. Otherwise, I'll not defend, it's what I said earlier.

There can be different ways how a chic judges me based on my ethnicity. As simple as thinking he's unsafe or socially uncalibrated to as bad as thinking he doesn't know anything about dating or he comes from a poor country. (I've had all of these experiences and on the other hand, had positive impressions about my culture, religion and values etc as well.)

In the examples Chase quoted in the article, playing along works well but in my case, it's very fragile. It's like discerning between shit-test and an insult.

Most chics don't get sarcasm and specially Gen-Z are dumb af when it comes to jokes, flirting, sarcasm etc.

I can go to some extent of playing along like what Chase mentioned in his response earlier but if I take it too far, she'll really think I'm asking her opinion and it'd go something like this if I met some crazy chic like I've met:

She: where are you from?
Me: India
She: Oh! So, your parents arrange marriage for you?
Me: Yep! My relatives might find me someone if I was back home. Why do you think I'm here?

*Like Chase suggested, it'd be best to change topic at this point. Otherwise, it'd go something like this hypothetically:*

She: So you're going to get married if you find someone?
Me: I don't know. Tell me what you think?
She: It doesn't work that way in the west
Me: So, how does it work then?
She: You'll have to know the person before you get married
Me: How do I do that? I go on dates to find out about her?
She: Yes.
*From here on she'll start dictating what she thinks is right. Like a fish teaching the fisherman to fish*

Now I can't make it sound like I was trolling cos what she'd advice is what main stream society advices anyway. I'll get into a bigger battle by taking this path.

 

[Spyce D]

Why not character or behavior or physical anomaly? I can discover any of those too and those can be a deal breaker too.

I meant in the context of the article that was shared. Otherwise, I'll not defend, it's what I said earlier.

There can be different ways how a chic judges me based on my ethnicity. As simple as thinking he's unsafe or socially uncalibrated to as bad as thinking he doesn't know anything about dating or he comes from a poor country. (I've had all of these experiences and on the other hand, had positive impressions about my culture, religion and values etc as well.)

In the examples Chase quoted in the article, playing along works well but in my case, it's very fragile. It's like discerning between shit-test and an insult.

Most chics don't get sarcasm and specially Gen-Z are dumb af when it comes to jokes, flirting, sarcasm etc.

I can go to some extent of playing along like what Chase mentioned in his response earlier but if I take it too far, she'll really think I'm asking her opinion and it'd go something like this if I met some crazy chic like I've met:

She: where are you from?
Me: India
She: Oh! So, your parents arrange marriage for you?
Me: Yep! My relatives might find me someone if I was back home. Why do you think I'm here?

*Like Chase suggested, it'd be best to change topic at this point. Otherwise, it'd go something like this hypothetically:*

She: So you're going to get married if you find someone?
Me: I don't know. Tell me what you think?
She: It doesn't work that way in the west
Me: So, how does it work then?
She: You'll have to know the person before you get married
Me: How do I do that? I go on dates to find out about her?
She: Yes.
*From here on she'll start dictating what she thinks is right. Like a fish teaching the fisherman to fish*

Now I can't make it sound like I was trolling cos what she'd advice is what main stream society advices anyway. I'll get into a bigger battle by taking this path.

Hmm I see your point in that .

No point in getting into unnecessary topics .

You see ... I have only met western women in India only , so , never had to face issues like yours BUT I face value issues in getting them due to my behaviour (not having to do anything with my ethnicity) . So, your situation is really bad to be in .

But...Let us know that if you see any change in chic's behaviour after applying any of the advice from this forum .

And , maybe , try to find if there is any successful Indian PUA (if any) in your area/ region and learn what he does to not be in situation like yours.

Best.

 

[Spyce D]

I don't think so. This article helps when I want to just troll her or one up her for fun but that's not gonna help move forward with her.

She already starts with a negative frame. Best case scenario, she may find it funny and worst case, she'll feel even more annoyed. Either case, it won't help in seduction.

It's the same when you're attracted to a chic until you find out something negative about her. Even if she compensates with something else, your attraction would've already gone down.

Do These things happen during cold approach A.K.A Daygame or in social circle or Nightgame ?

Just curious.

 

[Will_V]

Why not character or behavior or physical anomaly? I can discover any of those too and those can be a deal breaker too.

Sure, such a problem can happen on both sides. My point though is that your issue, as you describe it, is not like this - girls are positive/enthusiastic until they find out your ethnicity, but it's obviously not anything physical or behavioural or they would have picked up on it right away.

Although you might think this makes the problem more intractable, it is the opposite: their reaction is based on something abstract, whereas you are standing right in front of them. As long as you don't engage with the abstraction, it can never find a basis in you, they cannot find any way to reconcile it with your presence and it will slowly disappear. But since they appear to have made up their mind, you feel forced to engage with the abstraction, at which point you become tangled in it and end up feeding it in some way.

To be able to reject a negative frame, especially one based in stereotype, it's not enough to manage how positively or negatively you react to it: you must instead occupy a completely new frame that is clearly contrary to some aspect of the stereotype but is not in any way a reaction to it.

People who try to escape from stereotypes tend to do so by overcompensation, or trying to deaden their reactions, or something of that sort. But this is always a sacrifice and a burden, and the end result is always a loss of some spontaneously attractive aspect of their personality. Very few people try to escape a stereotype by having a sort of faith in their immediate experience of reality, but this is actually the only place where anything real exists.

 

[Gladiator]

Do These things happen during cold approach A.K.A Daygame or in social circle or Nightgame ?

Just curious.

I just do daygame and the interactions that go south are from here.

you must instead occupy a completely new frame that is clearly contrary to some aspect of the stereotype but is not in any way a reaction to it.

People who try to escape from stereotypes tend to do so by overcompensation, or trying to deaden their reactions, or something of that sort. But this is always a sacrifice and a burden, and the end result is always a loss of some spontaneously attractive aspect of their personality. Very few people try to escape a stereotype by having a sort of faith in their immediate experience of reality, but this is actually the only place where anything real exists.

You're right. This is actually the right approach - to side step her frame.

I have sometimes successfully circumvented this like:
She: So, where are you from?
Me: I'm from Moon/Heaven/Mars
She: Hahaha
She: No, really
Me: Yes..I am
She: Come on (starts to get annoyed) [This is the point of truth in which direction the interaction might go]
Me: Actually I'm from India.. but I live in Mars/Moon/Heaven and visit Earth sometimes
She: Hahaha.. so what brought you here?
Me: I was in my flying saucer and I saw this cute girl sitting in the park and wanted to come meet her..
She: *blushes*
Me: blah blah blah

I've successfully side stepped her frame. But this doesn't happen all the time. Sometimes she'll try to snatch the frame and get back to asking about India and it ends up in a frame-battle.

If you have any other ideas for side stepping her frame, please let me know.

 

[Conquistador]

Also worth looking into the Ananga Ranga

 

[Gladiator]

This is a temporary experiment to find out if people know you come from India is the real issue here.
I’m betting you will find you run into a specific issue even when saying you’re from somewhere else (your nationality is a symptom, not a cause… I bet)

I had another experience today exactly like what I've described in my OP and I adopted a nonchalant frame and changed the subject immediately after I said I'm from India but it still didn't end well. I said "I'm from Mars"and she started laughing and she asked "no seriously" for which I replied saying "I'll give you a hint. I'm from the land of yoga and meditation" (I didn't mention Kama Sutra).

She said, "So you're from India" and had a thoughtful look for a few seconds and I changed the subject asking, "what brings you to my country?" (She's traveling in my country)
She spoke normally for a couple more minutes and then she said she'll leave since it looks like it's going to rain. It was kind of abrupt since up until that point she was relaxed. I sensed there's no point in pushing further but since I follow the rule of ABC (Always be closing), I asked, would you like to get a coffee with me sometime? She said sure and gave her number and ejected soon after. She didn't reply to my opener text.

So, in my next set, I'm thinking of saying I'm from UK or some other country.

Anyway, what do you mean by "I’m betting you will find you run into a specific issue even when saying you’re from somewhere else (your nationality is a symptom, not a cause… I bet)"?

Could you elaborate?

 

[ulrich]

Anyway, what do you mean by "I’m betting you will find you run into a specific issue even when saying you’re from somewhere else (your nationality is a symptom, not a cause… I bet)"?

Could you elaborate?

I think you’re doing something unproductive like accepting a girl’s unproductive frame, staying in pointless discussions or pushing at uncalibrated times… for example.
Either of those may have happened in your last interaction from what I can read.

I don’t think it’s the “India” thing as much as how you work your regular interactions.

 

[Conquistador]

So, in my next set, I'm thinking of saying I'm from UK or some other country.

Do you have a British-sounding accent?

How long have you lived in your current city? Just say “from here” and if they press “originally?” either go “I choose to identify as a citizen of the world” (if calibrated to your own vibes, clothes, etc.) or say “from Haryana” or “from Goa” or somewhere that sounds generic that most people don’t know anything about.
“From Mars” usually isn’t a good answer.

 

[Gladiator]

H

I think you’re doing something unproductive like accepting a girl’s unproductive frame, staying in pointless discussions or pushing at uncalibrated times… for example.
Either of those may have happened in your last interaction from what I can read.

I don’t think it’s the “India” thing as much as how you work your regular interactions.

Hmm.. Not really sure what else. I can't think of anything else that made her bail..

Do you have a British-sounding accent?

I don't but I don't have Indian accent either. It's hard to guess unless I tell them where I'm from

How long have you lived in your current city? Just say “from here” and if they press “originally?” either go “I choose to identify as a citizen of the world” (if calibrated to your own vibes, clothes, etc.) or say “from Haryana” or “from Goa” or somewhere that sounds generic that most people don’t know anything about.
“From Mars” usually isn’t a good answer.

That is just to troll her and like I mentioned above, some chics bite and they don't push further but some insist

 

[ulrich]

Hmm.. Not really sure what else. I can't think of anything else that made her bail..

I just listed 3 possible suspects

 

[Chase]

@Gladiator,

This is a very passive conversation:

I have sometimes successfully circumvented this like:
She: So, where are you from?
Me: I'm from Moon/Heaven/Mars
She: Hahaha
She: No, really
Me: Yes..I am
She: Come on (starts to get annoyed) [This is the point of truth in which direction the interaction might go]
Me: Actually I'm from India.. but I live in Mars/Moon/Heaven and visit Earth sometimes
She: Hahaha.. so what brought you here?
Me: I was in my flying saucer and I saw this cute girl sitting in the park and wanted to come meet her..
She: *blushes*
Me: blah blah blah

HER: [asks question]​

YOU: [answers then waits]​

HER: [asks another question]​

YOU: [answers then waits]​

HER: [asks another question]​

YOU: [answers then waits]​

Is this how it goes when women start asking you about India too?

If all your conversations go this way it's little wonder they don't work out and girls commandeer the frame. You don't appear to be making any effort to drive things forward yourself, or at least aren't in this example.

Here's how it should be going:

HER: Where are you from?​

YOU: I just arrived from Heaven. How about you, are you one of these 'Earth women' I keep hearing about?​

HER: Haha, yeah I'm from here. No really, where are you from?​

YOU: I'm from India but I've been here a long time. Do you ever travel?​

HER: Sometimes! I went to Italy last year. So, India... don't they have like a lot of cows there and stuff?​

YOU: Yeah, those cows are all over. Italy's great. You seemed like a traveller. I'll bet you're interested in a lot of different places.​

HER: Oh I am! I blah blah blah [talking about self]​

You should be treating the India topic as a bait, where if she wants to know more she can keep asking you about it, and you reveal a little bit each time, but then turn it back to her.

Right now it sounds as if as soon as a woman mentions India you freeze up and stop driving the conversation anywhere, then just stand there answering 20 questions about it waiting for her to pass judgment.

In that case it doesn't matter where you're from... you could both be from Manchester and it'd go the same way:

HER: Where are you from?​

YOU: I'm from Manchester.​

HER: Oh yeah so am I. Are you into the football club?​

YOU: I am, yeah.​

HER: Have you visited Albert Square?​

YOU: I used to pass by there all the time.​

HER: Okay... well, it was really nice meeting you!​

YOU: [feeling sad because obviously she doesn't like fellow Manucians]​

You can't just be passively answering women's questions while waiting and hoping they pass a positive judgment on your replies.

You need to direct the flow of the conversation by injecting INTERESTING topics and stories and by turning the conversation back to the girl.

Chase

 

[Gladiator]

@Gladiator,

This is a very passive conversation:

HER: [asks question]​

YOU: [answers then waits]​

HER: [asks another question]​

YOU: [answers then waits]​

HER: [asks another question]​

YOU: [answers then waits]​

Is this how it goes when women start asking you about India too?

If all your conversations go this way it's little wonder they don't work out and girls commandeer the frame. You don't appear to be making any effort to drive things forward yourself, or at least aren't in this example.

Here's how it should be going:

HER: Where are you from?​

YOU: I just arrived from Heaven. How about you, are you one of these 'Earth women' I keep hearing about?​

HER: Haha, yeah I'm from here. No really, where are you from?​

YOU: I'm from India but I've been here a long time. Do you ever travel?​

HER: Sometimes! I went to Italy last year. So, India... don't they have like a lot of cows there and stuff?​

YOU: Yeah, those cows are all over. Italy's great. You seemed like a traveller. I'll bet you're interested in a lot of different places.​

HER: Oh I am! I blah blah blah [talking about self]​

You should be treating the India topic as a bait, where if she wants to know more she can keep asking you about it, and you reveal a little bit each time, but then turn it back to her.

Right now it sounds as if as soon as a woman mentions India you freeze up and stop driving the conversation anywhere, then just stand there answering 20 questions about it waiting for her to pass judgment.

In that case it doesn't matter where you're from... you could both be from Manchester and it'd go the same way:

HER: Where are you from?​

YOU: I'm from Manchester.​

HER: Oh yeah so am I. Are you into the football club?​

YOU: I am, yeah.​

HER: Have you visited Albert Square?​

YOU: I used to pass by there all the time.​

HER: Okay... well, it was really nice meeting you!​

YOU: [feeling sad because obviously she doesn't like fellow Manucians]​

You can't just be passively answering women's questions while waiting and hoping they pass a positive judgment on your replies.

You need to direct the flow of the conversation by injecting INTERESTING topics and stories and by turning the conversation back to the girl.

Chase

That was a good catch @Chase

I hadn't paid attention to that at all.

Normally I go with the format of answer > statement > question. But when she asks where I'm from, I go answer > statement or sometimes just answer. I guess I do this unconsciously cos I'm waiting for her judgement, since I'm conscious of it myself.

I have few other insecurities which makes me stall during the conversation. Now I'm thinking of all of them.

Perhaps, for her this creates a dissonance in the conversation like something is OFF. Then she becomes suspicious and probes more or ejects. This becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy for me. Brilliant analysis!

I'll try what you suggested next time (that was smooth). That sounds like a good reason why I'm failing.

 

[Conquistador]

Yeah, that made me realize I’ve been slacking off about ending with questions too. Or I’ll allow a pause, then ask questions starting a new topic, which can come off badly.

 

[ulrich]

Normally I go with the format of answer > statement > question.

Even that is too passive.

Why not answer > statement > reframe > suggestion or answer > statement > instruction

If you’re only answering questions and throwing new ones, you are not leading.
Women will qualify you in your ability to lead them.

 

[Gladiator]

Even that is too passive.

Why not answer > statement > reframe > suggestion or answer > statement > instruction

If you’re only answering questions and throwing new ones, you are not leading.
Women will qualify you in your ability to lead them.

Ya, the statement would be a reframe or a suggestion or an instruction or an agreement/affirmation

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

if she keeps on persisting to know where you're from if you're from Kashmir say you're from Kashmir, if you're from gujarat say you're from gujarat. Most chicks won't know where those places are and will just assume they're countries somehere. Don't say you're from India, just say you're from X region. If their reaction to you saying you're from India is negative it could be because of media/social programming. Saying you're from X region and that could bypass that reaction and they shouldnt care.

Good post, I do something similar. In some countries there's a negative stereotype associated with my home country as well. I once had a set hook and then walk off right after hearing where I'm from. I had a lot of sets where the vibe dropped a bit after I told them. I experimented with lying and telling them I'm from a few other countries, and got much better reactions. But, I don't want to lie.

What I do now is this:

Karea: Oh, that's normal where I'm from (bait to force an IOI)
Girl: Oh... where are you from?
Karea: I'll give you a hint (describe something cool from my country but ambiguous, could be from a few countries).
Girl: guesses
Karea: I'm from *region/city* (not saying the country)
Girl: Where is that?
Karea: You don't know?
Girl: no...
Karea: You didn't get good grades in geography class? *big smile while making fun of them always*
Girl: laughs, self conscious, her value drops, she feels a little dumb
Karea: changes topic, usually into compliance testing: "how tall are you by the way?"

If she circles back around to it later I'll just tell her and move on, but it disarms that first shock of:

• she's qualifying you to pigeon hole you
• you comply and jump the hoop
• your response is culturally perceived as a low-value answer

The above avoids all that, and you can still tell her where you're actually from later if she asks again but without that initial DLV bomb.