Cutting without counting calories?

[sunnygirl]

Hey guys, hope you're all doing well

just wondering if I could get advice or insights from anyone whose in the process of cutting or leaning out without meticulously counting calories. It seems like I'm always in the frame of mind that when I'm cutting everything has to be perfect, I can't have more than 1500 calories or less than 150 g of protein, I always have the same rigid meals everyday: plain greek yogurt, tuna cans, salmon, vegetables, no more than 50g of carbs, etc. However, this route always leads to extreme hunger and I end up binging and not even caring for a couple days because I'm so ravenous, around like 4000 calories which leads me back to Square 1.

Numerically wise, I'm a 170 cm (5'7/5'8) female, around 128 lbs and really want to lean down back to 118 when I thought I looked my best. I always have lived in the mindset of that when I get down to that certain weight I can finally enjoy my life again, and I especially want to lose some of the weight before university fall semester starts. I'm objectively pretty thin but this is just vanity weight for me, I was just wondering if you guys have any tips on how to cut without losing your sanity!

 

[mist]

learn about water fasting. I did it for 27 days and lost 35 lbs (freedom terms)

I'd modify it though. Do protein saving variation.

save muscle lose fat. Won't gain muscle though. Also beware obsessively weighing water weight skews results

 

[Gladiator]

• Try adding fiber to your diet which will keep you satiated for longer
• Try different recipes to avoid getting bored eating the same everyday
• Drink lots of water which will increase your metabolism
• Eat smaller meals often rather than large meals 3 times a day. This will keep you full as well
• Eat slowly. Your brain registers satiation only after around 20 mins. So, you maybe eating more than what your body needs

 

[Train]

Below are some suggestions that may help based on my experiences as a super meticulous, rigid dieter.

At the end of the day, it's about tweaking variables so you adhere better while feeling better.

I always see any advice related to fitness or dieting as a lead to test if it works for ME. Don't force something that isn't working for YOU even though you've given it a fair try.

Note that when it comes to dieting, sometimes you may need to give it a week or more to see if it works.

• Intermittent fasting can be great for moderating hunger. If this doesn't work, try smaller meals like Gladiator said to see if it helps adherence.
• What helps me with binging associated with rigid, meticulous dieting is adding variety and plenty of carbs.
• Don't only eat boring foods. It's ok if you eat some fun or junk foods. Just be sure to track it so you're still on track for weight loss.
• Don't be afraid to add carbs and fats and lower protein. I suspect you're not eating much fat based on foods you mentioned.
• Eat foods that give you bang for buck on calories. Stuff like yogurt or tuna might not be the most satisfying. Maybe also vegetables even though they're technically filling and low-calorie.
• Make sure your deficit is reasonable. 20-25% daily caloric deficit is a good place. For you, I'd set daily caloric deficit around 360-390 calories as a starting point (assuming maintenance calories is your bodyweight in pounds times 15. This will really help your binging tendencies because you can relax as you can eat more food compared to higher deficits.
• Lower protein to 0.5 gram per pound of bodyweight per day.
• Eat 0.5 gram of fat per pound of bodyweight per day.
• The remainder of calories will be as many carbs as you can eat while still having a deficit of 360-390 calories per day. In your case, somewhere around 160 grams of carbs per day. You can still lose weight while eating carbs, I've done it while eating 1 gram of carbs per bodyweight in pounds.
• Weigh yourself daily so you can chart trends and see if you need to adjust how much food you eat to get the expected weight loss. Note there will be fluctuations due to food in gut, water retention, etc. Averaging weight over weeks or using moving averages helps cut this noise out to see the bigger picture.
• Add some casual daily walking if you want a mini boost to the deficit or as extra margin.

I still recommend counting calories and tracking weight so you have more predictability in the process and don't binge out of frustration when you don't see your weight going down. Also, your weight may stagnate here and there. Don't worry, give it a week or two, and if still stagnating, calmly adjust your intake and keep going slow and steady.

I think the low caloric deficit, increase in carbs, and increase in variety will help you feel better and adhere. Don't worry about losing the weight NOW. Give it time, this is actually quick. The caloric deficit I gave you translates to 38 lbs of weight loss in a year, theoretically, so it's no joke and quite fast when you think about it that way.

Above is what has worked for me. Test it, play around with it. More importantly, don't bang your head against a wall doing the same thing if it's not working. Try different things. I say this as someone who has made that mistake many times lol.

 

[POB]

128 is already lean for your height!
Are you sure you don't want to add muscle and go up to the 130s first?

 

[mist]

128 is already lean for your height!
Are you sure you don't want to add muscle and go up to the 130s first?

holy shit you're right I didn't even really consider her in specific...sunflower this might not be a good move.

Women losing too much fat lose their periods and their hormones go outta whack.

Take a really serious look at yourself and consider if how you are looking at your body and what you intend to do next is healthy, graceful, or fair.

Things like body dysmorphia or anorexia aren't worth it. You've written plenty about your diet, supports system view on your weight, and peers in chat and briefly in your journal/report about HBsoccervscogirl

I completely retract my water fasting statement. It is unwise for you to do anything similar to what I did

I would suggest you subscribe or at minimum watch this video

Consider your next actions wisely and gracefully

I'm ducking outta this thread...for people who are more generally interested in this stuff this is good info

for sunflower in specific this thread is yikes

(future mist talking that's a really good vid not lying watch it I started watching it again on accident reccing it to you...plus she hot lol.)

 

[Train]

Good points by POB and mist, at five foot seven inches and 118 lbs, it's barely considered a normal BMI. It's underweight at five foot eight inches. BMI doesn't tell the whole story but it's a legit concern for OP.

I'd recommend checking body fat percentage with someone who knows how to work calipers or alternatively a DEXA scan. I think this will help OP and everyone know where you're at to see if it's even a good idea to cut. There's certain body fat percentages that may be detrimental to health.

Firs priority should be to confirm if you should even cut.

 

[sunnygirl]

@Train thanks so much for your suggestions on slight calorie deficits. I was gonna add more, I asked this personal trainer at the gym if he could check my body fat percentage and he did by making me hold this device to a certain angle for a minute, it came back at 24 percent BF. I was looking back at old pictures of myself at what I'd assume to be like 16-20 percent BF at 115-118 lbs and my heart sank because I could see the difference. It's weird because I think part of it has to do with cultural expectations of weight and body fat, my mom's east asian side of the family has a different viewpoint of a thin weight versus like, my dad's white side of the family who views curves and muscles as nice instead of too much. Anyways, enough rambling about that...

@POB It sounds good and theory but I feel like I only exercise because my mindset is like "I'm gonna cut and lose body fat/weight." I feel like gaining on purpose would kinda defeat the purpose of why I exercise (which is bad, I know!) I remember being a kid and I loved exercising just because how it made me feel, but nowadays I feel like what's the point of working out if my weight's gonna be neutral or even go up? However, if my body fat percentage can stay the same at 24 percent or lower while my weight goes up, that's good, I guess

@mist it's fine, sometimes I have the tendency to obsess over weight or my body when things in my life are going bad or stressful, it's a coping mechanism but I think I already watched that video! Really insightful and cool, thanks for putting it in here anyways, I'll skim it again!

 

[Train]

@Train thanks so much for your suggestions on slight calorie deficits. I was gonna add more, I asked this personal trainer at the gym if he could check my body fat percentage and he did by making me hold this device to a certain angle for a minute, it came back at 24 percent BF. I was looking back at old pictures of myself at what I'd assume to be like 16-20 percent BF at 115-118 lbs and my heart sank because I could see the difference. It's weird because I think part of it has to do with cultural expectations of weight and body fat, my mom's east asian side of the family has a different viewpoint of a thin weight versus like, my dad's white side of the family who views curves and muscles as nice instead of too much. Anyways, enough rambling about that...

Sounds like it was the Bioelectrical Impedance Analysis (BIA) way of measuring body fat. Hydration can really throw it off if hydration is not held constant so I wouldn't put too much stock in it.

Self-perception can be skewed sometimes so it's helpful to baseline using more scientifically objective methods like calipers/DEXA/BMI/body fat percentage.

Reference for more info on BIA if you're interested: https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-l...position#Bioelectrical_Impedance_Analysis_BIA

Excerpt from link:

And that brings in the problem I mentioned above: hydration state can throw off BIA tremendously. Both dehydration (as might occur when carbohydrates are lowered) or hyper-hydration can throw off BIA completely. Even a large urination or a big glass of water can throw off a BIA measurement by a few percentage points.

So unless you’re following those strict hydration protocols, BIA can be terribly misleading. If you’re slightly differently hydrated from the last measurement you took, what looks like an actual change in body fat percentage may actually just be a difference in water balance.

 

[POB]

@POB It sounds good and theory but I feel like I only exercise because my mindset is like "I'm gonna cut and lose body fat/weight." I feel like gaining on purpose would kinda defeat the purpose of why I exercise (which is bad, I know!) I remember being a kid and I loved exercising just because how it made me feel, but nowadays I feel like what's the point of working out if my weight's gonna be neutral or even go up? However, if my body fat percentage can stay the same at 24 percent or lower while my weight goes up, that's good, I guess

You don't exercise to loose or gain weight, but to be healthy.
90% of the bodies we see on fitness IG and the likes are beautiful and VERY unhealthy.
Also more muscle=more calories you burn=more food you can eat while cutting

 

[Conquistador]

Ok so…as far as I’ve seen you don’t really need to cut. We can discuss this further but this is probably all in your head.

anyone whose in the process of cutting or leaning out without meticulously counting calories.

What I do is basically no system. 14 to 20 hour fasting a few days a week, eat large meals with a mix of whole grains and fats. Avoid certain kinds of junk food completely

I actually don’t recommend this because it’s easier to just do 1-2 hours a day of long-slow-distance cardio which burns a few hundred extra calories.

Also, the male human body is designed to cope with a lot of systemic shocks, whereas for females, rapid changes to your metabolism is much more likely to affect your hormones to a concerning extent. Specifically, I believe I already sent you a link several weeks ago discussing how to ease into intermittent fasting.
In your case, I’d be super concerned because I’d estimate with medium-high confidence that currently your system is not well adapted to fasting, fat metabolism, and stuff.

It seems like I'm always in the frame of mind that when I'm cutting everything has to be perfect

You said it yourself…might that be influencing your decision making in general?

I can't have more than 1500 calories or less than 150 g of protein, I always have the same rigid meals everyday

See above.

plain greek yogurt

That reminds me of someone actually. A classmate who had eating issues at the time I knew her. She’s the one I sent you the vsco link to actually (not the Colombian cutie from way back obvs, the one I sent a few weeks ago)

vegetables

What about fruits?

no more than 50g of carbs, etc.
However, this route always leads to extreme hunger

You have less than 50g of carbs WITHOUT going all keto and consuming plenty of fats? No wonder!!

and I end up binging and not even caring for a couple days because I'm so ravenous, around like 4000 calories which leads me back to Square 1.

Sounds like your animal brain is trying to correct things. But apart from fast-feast habits which work differently, binging isn’t good for you.

I always have lived in the mindset of that when I get down to that certain weight I can finally enjoy my life again

This sounds like a limiting belief.
A lot of emotional and physiological factors are way more important to feelings of well-being than your weight.
I would carefully examine your emotional relationship to food.
Also, if you’re “already pretty thin”, why not reduce your body fat % by bulking?

I especially want to lose some of the weight before university fall semester starts.

Worth mentioning, the vast majority of guys generally prefer girls with average weight. Up to a point (esp when she’s young) a bit of fat is better than too thin. When guys are stressed, their preference for fat and curves increases, to the point that in the 20th century the measurements of the Playmate of the Month had a non-trivial correlation with the national economy.
Also, muscular > thin. I’ve met student-athletes (e.g. Rower Girl with her Leonardo looks) who would be way less attractive if they had the same size boobs and butt with no muscle. (Would you rather be like Maya, or like a TikTok gym “influencer”?)
As for other girls, most of them care less about aesthetics than guys (think stereotypical obese butches). Those who do care generally aren’t into Kate Moss types.

I'm objectively pretty thin but this is just vanity weight for me

Again, you said it.

I was just wondering if you guys have any tips on how to cut without losing your sanity!

If you must do it:
-Stop thinking about it.
-Fast half the day. Make sure to drink plenty of water; I often forget to.
-Eat lots of fat. This is counterintuitive but once you look into the physiology it starts to make more sense. It gets your system used to burning fat. It helps you feel more full. It increases the number of available inefficiency hacks. And it’s just good for you in general.
-Get plenty of exercise of the right kind.
-Spend less time at the gym and more time exercising in nature. A good rule of thumb is at least 3x30 min/week at a park or similar and 5 hours/month in real nature outside the built environment.
-Activity-based exercise is way better than a machine. Soccer > treadmill, mountain bike > “stationary”, climbing > pull-ups etc. These things also help you with aspects of genuine fitness such as flexibility, balance, even distribution of strength, etc.
-Focus on other aspects of health-based fitness, such as sleep, hydration. Think holistically.
-Ignore numbers. The human brain can do differential calculus in real time (think catching a baseball or football) and considerably faster than a 1950s mainframe; we’re generally good with imprecise analog things. Focus on how you feel and (only if you can avoid any anxiety or obsession) body fat, as measured by using your hands as calipers.
About that…lookup the US Navy body fat test; it’s easy to get the measurements and at least as accurate as whatever fancy stuff they were doing at the gym.
Also, for women:

Athletic​		14%-20%​		​
Fit​		21%-24%​		​
Acceptable​		25%-31%​

Keep those numbers in mind.
Healthy women in the “athletic” category are usually getting a lot of exercise and activity. How much are you currently getting and of what kind? How many push-ups can you do? How far can you walk, run, swim, and bike?

In short, you should probably be assessing your holistic fitness instead of obsessing about weight/fat.

I hope you don’t mind the tough love. If you want to discuss this more, feel free.

 

[Chase]

Interesting. I'm a bit surprised at the guys saying "Don't go lower than 128 at 5'7"!"

Probably a cultural thing. I can tell you your idea of what is slim vs. fat changes quite a bit as you live in different societies.

There's a site called "visual BMI" that's pretty useful here:

VisualBMI

See what weight looks like on a human body

loseitirc.github.io

Set it to female and the height and weight you want and you get a good idea.

The ones in the 115-120 range look GREAT:



Much better than most of the ones at ~130, most of whom are a bit square-sided with love handles, rather than having that very feminine hourglass shape.

I'd say anything in the 110-120 range, you're probably at your ideal weight... 105 is a bit low... 100 is probably too low, getting into the skinny thighs range where you start to look less good and begin running into health problems.

It also depends on how much muscle you have, since muscle is denser than fat.

But yeah, a 5'7" girlfriend at 130 lbs., I'd be encouraging her to slim down some too. Not too extreme, just to the point where she's got that pencil-thin waist, while still having good thighs, butt, breasts, etc.

Anyway, best thing to do if you want to slim down without counting calories is just use portion control while skipping the calorie counting stuff I have here, + do everything else in the article:

The Girls Chase Guide to Getting & Staying Slim

If you want to slim down for good, lose the fad diet. Don't even exercise (not for this anyway). Instead, do this: cut your portions, and cut bad foods. We were talking over on the forum about how people in general have gotten a lot fatter. In fact it is to the point that people often do not...

www.girlschase.com

That'll get you there.

Just for the record, I am 6'00" with a fair bit of muscle (can bench a few reps with a pair of 70 lbs dumbbells), and I currently weigh just under 148 lbs. According to this the average weight for a 5'4" American woman age 20-39 is 168 lbs... which is 20 lbs. heavier than me.

So yeah, portion control + cutting out your least healthy foods will do it. I haven't counted calories in a dozen years.

Chase

 

[sunnygirl]

Probably a cultural thing. I can tell you your idea of what is slim vs. fat changes quite a bit as you live in different societies.

Yeah, my white side of the fam thinks I’m too thin while my Asian side of the fam thinks I need to lose some more, lol.

Much better than most of the ones at ~130, most of whom are a bit square-sided with love handles, rather than having that very feminine hourglass shape.

Yeah I saw the ones at 130, they all look bit older than me, wrinkly skin which probably contributed to that issue. My shape isn’t the issue since I’ve got a rlly slim waist in comparison to my hips (22.5 inch waist and 32 inch hips if that helps) but it doesn’t hurt to get leaner ofc

I'd say anything in the 110-120 range, you're probably at your ideal weight... 105 is a bit low... 100 is probably too low, getting into the skinny thighs range where you start to look less good and begin running into health problems.

Yeah that’s what I was thinking as well

But yeah, a 5'7" girlfriend at 130 lbs., I'd be encouraging her to slim down some too

I’m more like 5’8 and just weighed myself at 126.3 lbs, so lighter than I thought lol, but yeah, I’m gonna target 110-120 now, the women in those pics look amazing

Anyway, best thing to do if you want to slim down without counting calories is just use portion control while skipping the calorie counting stuff I have here, + do everything else in the article:

The Girls Chase Guide to Getting & Staying Slim

If you want to slim down for good, lose the fad diet. Don't even exercise (not for this anyway). Instead, do this: cut your portions, and cut bad foods. We were talking over on the forum about how people in general have gotten a lot fatter. In fact it is to the point that people often do not...

www.girlschase.com

That'll get you there.

Okay thank you sm for this! I will def check it out and the resources

 

[sunnygirl]

What I do is basically no system. 14 to 20 hour fasting a few days a week, eat large meals with a mix of whole grains and fats. Avoid certain kinds of junk food completely

Yeah I already do that, I do the OMAD diet where I fast for 23 hours a day and in that one hour I eat all my 1200-1500 calories for the day

What about fruits?

I mean I read online there’s too many carbs so I’ll have like 25 g of carbs on my good days and under 1500 calories and I’ll do cardio for 45 mins and lift for 15 mins then I just get so hungry I binge on the weekends and then fast entirely on Monday and continue the schedule

Also, if you’re “already pretty thin”, why not reduce your body fat % by bulking?

How does that work?

Worth mentioning, the vast majority of guys generally prefer girls with average weight. Up to a point (esp when she’s young) a bit of fat is better than too thin.

Honestly haha, it isn’t rlly for guys idk. Remember I told you about that incident on that website when those guys were ruthlessly insulting photos from when I was skinny (120 lbs or so?) yea they went on and on about how I was built like a broomstick and had no curves lol but you already knew that. They all said they prefer thick girls but then chase here said that skinny girls are his ideal and another guy I know said that. So idk

Again, you said it.
If you must do it:
-Stop thinking about it.
-Fast half the day. Make sure to drink plenty of water; I often forget to.
-Eat lots of fat. This is counterintuitive but once you look into the physiology it starts to make more sense. It gets your system used to burning fat. It helps you feel more full. It increases the number of available inefficiency hacks. And it’s just good for you in general.
-Get plenty of exercise of the right kind.
-Spend less time at the gym and more time exercising in nature. A good rule of thumb is at least 3x30 min/week at a park or similar and 5 hours/month in real nature outside the built environment.
-Activity-based exercise is way better than a machine. Soccer > treadmill, mountain bike > “stationary”, climbing > pull-ups etc. These things also help you with aspects of genuine fitness such as flexibility, balance, even distribution of strength, etc.
-Focus on other aspects of health-based fitness, such as sleep, hydration. Think holistically.
-Ignore numbers. The human brain can do differential calculus in real time (think catching a baseball or football) and considerably faster than a 1950s mainframe; we’re generally good with imprecise analog things. Focus on how you feel and (only if you can avoid any anxiety or obsession) body fat, as measured by using your hands as calipers.
About that…lookup the US Navy body fat test; it’s easy to get the measurements and at least as accurate as whatever fancy stuff they were doing at the gym.

tysm!

Also, for women:

Athletic​		14%-20%​		​
Fit​		21%-24%​		​
Acceptable​		25%-31%​

Keep those numbers in mind.

Yeah I’ll get it rechecked

Healthy women in the “athletic” category are usually getting a lot of exercise and activity. How much are you currently getting and of what kind? How many push-ups can you do? How far can you walk, run, swim, and bike?

Honestly I can’t do a single push-up and my plank lasts for ten seconds. That personal trainer on the gym made the same remarks as @POB saying that I was too weak and “lanky” and need to put on some muscle. But idk different people are saying different things to me. I feel like once I get down to 115 which I’ve done before it just takes extreme effort and sacrifice I can do the squat machines since I’ve been avoiding that recently cos I fear it’ll bulk my legs up lol

 

[Conquistador]

I can’t believe I’m going against Chase on this but I feel I have to point out a few things (some of which are important and confidential background info and I’ll have to PM about them).

Interesting. I'm a bit surprised at the guys saying "Don't go lower than 128 at 5'7"!"

This has a faint trace of internal straw-man thinking.

Probably a cultural thing. I can tell you your idea of what is slim vs. fat changes quite a bit as you live in different societies.

This is true but have a gander at the graph I posted with bf% ranges. Hopefully those aren’t culturally defined — right?

There's a site called "visual BMI" that's pretty useful here:

Set it to female and the height and weight you want and you get a good idea.

Yea this is useful but if a girl’s (or person’s) mental models are skewed they’ll see what they want to see.

The ones in the 115-120 range look GREAT:

Um not exactly. Two do (1 and 4), one is ok, and one is a little concerning.

View attachment 317
Sure this one looks better than before but personally I think she’s a tad thin. Not enough muscle and her figure seems artificial relative to her bone structure. You can clearly see that her boobs are smaller than they look in the pushup bra. Not unhealthy or anything but I think she’d look better with a bit more weight, both in muscle and firm lady fat.
View attachment 318

Um no. Left pic weight seems to be a typo but it looks very healthy. Right pic is awful. You can see a vein on her abs! Arms like twigs! And she seems to have lost muscle mass as well even if it’s more defined than the left pic. I have difficulty seeing that woman as a sexual object because she’s thinner than a Barbie doll.

Also worth noting that our ancestresses were thinner because they were more active. Hunter-gatherer women walk an average of 15 km/day (and have period issues as a result, which helps regulate population growth). And I’ve met a few old school hard-working housewives who could arm wrestle the average guy on the street and win handily. So what is healthy is complicated. A girl who has 10 pounds more than ideal but gets plenty of exercise and fresh air is going to be hotter to most guys than a girl who doesn’t eat enough and gets no exercise.

 

[Conquistador]

Yeah I already do that, I do the OMAD diet where I fast for 23 hours a day and in that one hour I eat all my 1200-1500 calories for the day

Drastic. One small mostly fruits and veggies meal and one large meal is probably better.

I mean I read online there’s too many carbs so I’ll have like 25 g of carbs on my good days and under 1500 calories and I’ll do cardio for 45 mins and lift for 15 mins then I just get so hungry I binge on the weekends

I’m not joking when I said that it sounds like your animal brain is probably hijacking you and making you replenish calories.
Also exercise requires extra calories.

How does that work?

Keep body fat the same. Increase muscle mass. Your body fat is now a smaller % of your total weight. Just math.
Also muscles help keep your fat down while eating more “normally”. Apart from all the other wonderful benefits.

Honestly I can’t do a single push-up and my plank lasts for ten seconds.

A lot of girls are the same but don’t be like them.

That personal trainer on the gym made the same remarks as @POB saying that I was too weak and “lanky” and need to put on some muscle.

Tbh a lot of girls do but if he’s saying that (instead of suggesting you slim down), maybe he’s right. He’s seen you IRL, the rest of us have only seen pics and blurry video chats.

I feel like once I get down to 115 which I’ve done before it just takes extreme effort and sacrifice I can do the squat machines since I’ve been avoiding that recently

Again, read what you’ve written, missy! It speaks for itself.

cos I fear

Operating word here

it’ll bulk my legs up lol

What’s wrong with that?

 

[ferrero]

and I loved exercising just because how it made me feel, but nowadays I feel like what's the point of working out

find workouts that are fun and make you feel good and do them for fun, problem solved

 

[Chase]

Yeah, my white side of the fam thinks I’m too thin while my Asian side of the fam thinks I need to lose some more, lol.

Ah, yup, that's what it is.

This has a faint trace of internal straw-man thinking.

What does that mean?

Anyway, @sunflowergirl04, as you see from your own family, as well as from this forum, you are going to get conflicting opinions from people coming from conflicting perspectives (East Asian vs. European family members, for example).

The big three you will tend to run into in terms of body type preferences are:

1. 21st Century American concept of 'thin'
2. Gym girl aesthetic
3. Eastern European & Asian concept of 'thin'

Anyone you ask is going to have a different opinion and push you toward one of these.

Someone who prefers the modern American 'thin' is going to tell you you're fine as you are and actually could probably use a little more meat on your bones.

Someone who prefers the gym girl aesthetic is going to tell you to not even worry about fat at this point and instead hit the gym to get more firm and toned.

Someone who prefers the EE/EA 'thin' is going to tell you to slim down a bit and get super trim & tight.

You can't be all three of these at once. You can only be one.

So, you are just going to have to choose:

The Man, The Boy, and The Donkey - Fables of Aesop

Please all, and you will please none. A man tries to take the advice of many different people regarding his donkey and ends up with the worst of the deal.

fablesofaesop.com

Good luck!

Chase

 

[POB]

@sunflowergirl04
She is 5'4" and 130:

https://images.redetv.uol.com.br/public/programas/tvfama/2020121518251192v66vFekY.jpg
https://d3rf2zoedgusog.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/sabrinasato4.jpg
https://www.portaldoholanda.com.br/sites/all/sites/default/files/images/FRN6170_135927.jpg
https://spinoff.com.br/entrete/wp-c...310_576460453943414_1535829647150525035_n.jpg

This type of body shape is what I meant.

 

[sunnygirl]

@sunflowergirl04
She is 5'4" and 130:

https://images.redetv.uol.com.br/public/programas/tvfama/2020121518251192v66vFekY.jpg
https://d3rf2zoedgusog.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/sabrinasato4.jpg
https://www.portaldoholanda.com.br/sites/all/sites/default/files/images/FRN6170_135927.jpg
https://spinoff.com.br/entrete/wp-c...310_576460453943414_1535829647150525035_n.jpg

This type of body shape is what I meant.

Wow those women are sexy as hell, personally though for myself I’d consider it a bit chubby, the legs and thighs are bulky in my view. It’s weird lol like I told @Surveyor i can recognize those women are hot while not wanting that level of thickness in myself. Heck I’m four inches taller and around that same weight if not a bit lower lol. Do you think most men would consider that body shape you posted chubby like I do or lean?