- Joined
- Nov 14, 2017
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- 315
I just recently had a date that brought up some pretty basic issues with physical escalation. I'll relate the story, but put some key questions in bold, so if you want you can just quickly pick those out. She took positively to the idea of a next meeting at my place and expressed good logistics for that, so I might be faced with the sequel very shortly!
Preliminaries
The date was with Cherelle, a girl I met 3 years back, had a coffee date with, and then basically didn't see again and texted with only on rare occasions; this thread was about her. At this point it seems most probable I was mistaken about her being married. No ring, anyway. (I hadn't bothered to note the first time around.)
I picked a spot that was not the closest coffee shop, but instead one that I knew to be quiet and that had a more useful seating arrangement. We were supposed to meet at 7pm, but after work she asked to move it to 7:30pm. I said this was ok as long as we would not be rushed; this was a subtle attempt to see if I'd have the time to take her home.
It was a workday, and her plan was to go home first to Littleton (passing right through Boobyville on a train) and then drive out to Boobyville to meet me. Based on her overall logistics it seemed a safe assumption that she would be meeting me and then going home. She'd probably have work the next day and she goes to work quite early, so I felt the situation was a soft time constraint.
As such, I decided to just assume I'd be able to get her home, rather than ask and get a time constraint she didn't really have to follow... especially with it looking like she's probably not married after all. I may have been better to play it safe and ask, but I was concerned that failing to pull from the first date is usually a bad thing so didn't really want to get into two-date mode.
So Far, So Good
I intentionally got there early, so I was already situated well before she showed up. I look up from my phone and there she is. I don't even have to ask her to sit beside me, she just does it. Of course, I had picked a spot and moved around the tables and chairs a little so as to make that natural! (Am I evil? HAHAHA.)
I must say I'm sold on Seppuku's suggestion of getting the girl to sit beside you. I'd had a date with this same girl 3 years prior, but that time she'd been across from me. This time there was a lot more incidental touch, and it was much easier to do without it being contrived (palm reading or whatever). Escalation would obviously be much easier. She shared more personal stuff too, although that was also due to better conversational skills.
The first minute or two we were both sort of semi-awkwardly searching for stuff to say, smalltalk I guess, but shortly thereafter it got much better.
The main thing I did better conversationally was to approach it with the goal of getting her to talk about herself, rather than impress her. I wouldn't say it was a mechanically perfect "deep dive" session, but I did employ the technique at points. This was more or less my first time doing that purposefully and getting anywhere with it. She did open up quite a lot and share some core personality that I hadn't seen the first time. We connected well.
Perhaps the biggest conversational challenge was that she was trying to do the same thing to me! In fact, the same thing has happened on every recent date. I want them talking about themselves but they get curious about me. I try to deflect but it's hard because you can't too much or they're going to think you're too aloof. I'd say I kept it about 60%/40% on her, though I realize higher may have been better. Do I need to work on this more or is that ok?
One thing that didn't entirely put my mind at ease, was the girl not only attending church every week, but having a parent in the clergy! But she also related a strong separation between church life and the rest of her existence, so I'm not really sure where this puts us. I have to wonder if it's a front to keep the parent happy, lol. But she does seem a little less wild than many girls...
What Is That Thing I'm Supposed To Be Going For, Again? Sex, Was It?
So, having gotten there early even for 7pm, I decided to use the spare time before Cherelle's arrival to re-read Seppuku's escalation routine a few times, since that was probably the most alien of the tasks I'd soon be faced with.
When I got to the part about not being nervous, I thought to myself, "Oh great, I am finished!" Hahaha.
Actually, after she showed up and we got talking, I was not very nervous. What I was, was repressed. I was raised by a society that taught me that girls don't like it when guys make moves on them. On a conscious level, I know this to be largely wrong. But that unconscious programming led me to very conservative interpretations of her body language, as well as a tremendous fear of offending her. How the hell do I get this shit out of my brain?!
As a result, while I did touch her a fair bit, it was largely only in a friendly as opposed to sexual manner.
The most I dared was to push back her hair with the back of my hand. Once. Briefly. This didn't bother her in the slightest, yet I was too scared to keep it up. (Too bad it was straightened instead of natural; I can't resist kinky hair!)
One of the things that I felt was holding me back was the distance she had sat at. While she did sit beside me on her own, she was perhaps a foot away on the bench. I wanted her closer but didn't know how to do it! I felt like if I moved closer to her, it would seem chasey or tacky. It occurred to me - alas, only afterwards, - that I probably should have tried to get her to come closer, instead. On a date, do you ask her to sit closer even when she's already beside you? Or just pull her over? Or should I have just escalated with her a foot or so away?
Sitting beside her did have one strange effect. She didn't always look at me; sometimes she would, but other times she'd just be looking forwards, enough that it felt weird. Myself, I was looking at her the majority of the time, although I, too, talked forwards at some points. I made a point to not actually turn my body towards her, or at least not much. How is this all supposed to go, in the side-by-side posture?
"She touches you back" did not happen, at all. Save for her going for a parting hug. The other girl I had on a date semi-recently was the same. Why aren't girls touching me? I have had it happen in past, in the context of horsing around (that could have been sexualized quite easily), but not recently. Maybe it's because I am not allowing my touch to linger enough... I do tend to make it pretty brief, out of shyness.
She was also sitting with her legs crossed. Does this mean she is sexually closed off? That is how I interpreted it, which did not help me any! I'm trying to remember if she was doing that all along, or if she only did that after I was looking at her bare thighs here and there. (I couldn't help it; brown skin was poppin'!) I wanted to touch, but my brain was doing something largely analogous to approach anxiety; I felt like I couldn't.
She had this knit shawl, and from time to time she'd pull the sides over her low-cut top that was otherwise revealing enough of her breasts to make me have the odd look. My eyes weren't as shy as my hands! It didn't feel at the time like I had bothered her, though.
Actually, at at least one point she did this, it seemed like she'd caught a chill. Had I any sense in my head, I'd have responded to this by pulling her in!
Even The Words Were Too Much!
There were at least two points where Cherelle brought up overtly sexual stuff, albeit only in third-person contexts. I wanted to capitalize, but in the moment my brain could not come up with any clever ways to do so.
One such point was when we were discussing strange foods. I was prompting for a show which she identified as Fear Factor, and she went on to relate how contestants have had to eat bull testicles, creamed at that, and beside that they had tiger penis. She said it was a good thing nobody [among us] was having cream. I was very frustrated at my brain's utter inability to think of anything clever to say here!
I think one large sticking point for me is that my mind isn't "dirty" enough! How can I make my mind "dirtier"?
One story I ended up relating because she had asked, involved a guy seeing me with a couple ladies (who I had indirectly identified as friends) and talking to me because he thought I was a player. I actually told it as such, but I had to wonder if I'd have profited much more greatly from telling it in a way that implied he was right rather than wrong!
The only good thing I did with sex and words, was to repeat the anti-slut-shaming gambit inspired by Alek I recently used with the African girl modeling for a Caribbean event. Cherelle is a big fan of the event, and I asked her what it was that she likes best about it. She gave a pedestrian answer and asked me the same. I mentioned liking how liberating it is, women being free to do provocative dances, for instance. I remarked on society being so judgemental.
I said, "if a man has history, people will say he's 'the man'; but if a woman has history..."
She quietly filled in, "they'll call her a whore."
Exactly, I replied, pointing out how this was unfair.
Cherelle agreed, although I didn't notice as marked a change in her demeanor as I did with the African girl. Maybe it's because I was being a little more conservative, using the words "has history" instead of "sleeps with a lot of" like I did with the African girl. Cherelle seemed a little more conservative, so I felt I had to tone it down a bit, though maybe that was a mistake.
Not My Night
At somewhere around 45m in, we had been conversing well, and though there hadn't been much escalation, I decided to go for the pull - mainly because it seems not trying is often the biggest cause of failure.
Earlier on, Cherelle had shown interest in my creative projects, so I brought one up and suggested she see it. She wanted a practical clarification, which I gave with enough vagueness to not totally eliminate the mystique, and followed with the suggestion that we could go do that as I'm like 5 minutes away. She'd like to, but not today.
To be honest, I wasn't expecting that at all. Usually in dissecting a date I'll find that the girl had done something that in retrospect looks like a ploy to come home with me or vice-versa. It's ironic that the one time I actually go for what they always seem to want anyway, it doesn't work! Well, actually it did work in another semi-recent case, although in that case the girl had virtually invited herself after my baiting her with the projects.
Afterwards, I almost thought that maybe I hadn't done enough escalating. But to be honest, I'd done even less in that recent case where a girl had invited herself, and also in all the other cases where I had dropped the ball when the girl was scheming to come home. So, what did go wrong? Was it just a simple matter of her not having the logistics? But I highly suspect she could have.
I was taken a bit off guard so just gave a "hmp" and broke rapport a bit by facing forwards, then after a moment changed the subject.
I was a bit torn between making an all-out effort or dropping it. I knew that making a more determined effort was high-stakes in that, if I didn't turn her around, it would only serve to cement my failure in her mind. Her answer lacked any trace of uncertainty, so this seemed a severe risk. I had already pulled a next date after 3 years out of my ass, so I considered it easier to just go for another day.
If it wasn't happening today, I wanted to end the date before it got old. But not wanting to end on a low note, I chatted a bit more. Once it was smoothed over, I checked the time and said we couldn't be too long.
Shortly after, she asked me what I'd do later. My story had to be congruent, so I made up something that required me home briefly and then left the rest of the night open. Her question wasn't a suggestion, was it? I didn't take it as such because she had already indicated she wasn't coming home with me. I said I might take a walk or get some work done.
A bit more chatting and I checked the time again. She noticed this and brought up the fact that she owed me a drink (she'd flaked the day before so I'd set that condition) and asked what I wanted. In retrospect I wonder if I'd have been better to tell her, save it for another time, but instead I just told her what to get, and she got us drinks.
At some point she mentioned a TV show of particular significance to her that came on at 9pm. I hope that wasn't meant as a hint, because I watch so much TV that I don't even have one!
Her drink took a while to cool off, and then she nursed it, so against my plans we actually wound up together a fairly long time; about 1h45m in total. Mind you, the dynamic was, she was the one keeping me when I had to leave, and indeed, when we did finally part it was basically at my gesturing; so I don't think this was as deleterious as it would have been had it been me trying to hang onto the date.
Towards the end, I brought up scheduling logistics. Basically, she made herself quite available ongoing, and moreso than before. She indicated this Saturday was open, so we tentatively planned for it.
By the time we were done, it was a little past the 9pm her show would've been on at.
Then she did something small yet funny: she asked if she should drop me home. Now, she had no idea what my transportation situation was or how I had gotten to the date; so why did she ask me this? It started bothering me afterwards. Was she hoping that I'd incidentally invite her in? I hope not, because I just answered that I had to pick up a few things and so we parted ways in the coffee shop.
Now What?
Seems pretty obvious: set up the date at my place A.S.A.P. But that does leave a question:
If you get a girl home on some pretense, how practical is it to then omit it?
I have fascinating creative projects that make good bait to get a girl home; I like this because it's not boring or cliché! However, last time I tried it, it backfired, because (i) the girl was actually interested in it and wouldn't stop asking questions, and (ii) it had us in office chairs (albeit fairly close to both a bed and ample floor space). My real issue was not having the balls to even try escalation, but these complications did not help any.
So, I would much rather not even take the girl to see these things until we've already fucked. The plan would be for us to sit on the couch in the living room and do some deep diving, escalation, and take her right there before even going to the other room where the projects can be invoked. But I'm concerned the girl might get uptight that I'm pulling a bait-and-switch on her.
With Cherelle, there's another obvious option. She loves cooking and baking. I've dabbled a tiny bit but haven't had time to get into it more. I could invite her to help me with some new recipe I want to try. But my kitchen is not properly set up right now so I might have to delay further to deal with that, but I want to get her over sooner! Not to mention, I already interested her in seeing the projects, so I'm not sure I should abandon that pretense now.
There you have it. Any clarifications much appreciated!
Preliminaries
The date was with Cherelle, a girl I met 3 years back, had a coffee date with, and then basically didn't see again and texted with only on rare occasions; this thread was about her. At this point it seems most probable I was mistaken about her being married. No ring, anyway. (I hadn't bothered to note the first time around.)
I picked a spot that was not the closest coffee shop, but instead one that I knew to be quiet and that had a more useful seating arrangement. We were supposed to meet at 7pm, but after work she asked to move it to 7:30pm. I said this was ok as long as we would not be rushed; this was a subtle attempt to see if I'd have the time to take her home.
It was a workday, and her plan was to go home first to Littleton (passing right through Boobyville on a train) and then drive out to Boobyville to meet me. Based on her overall logistics it seemed a safe assumption that she would be meeting me and then going home. She'd probably have work the next day and she goes to work quite early, so I felt the situation was a soft time constraint.
As such, I decided to just assume I'd be able to get her home, rather than ask and get a time constraint she didn't really have to follow... especially with it looking like she's probably not married after all. I may have been better to play it safe and ask, but I was concerned that failing to pull from the first date is usually a bad thing so didn't really want to get into two-date mode.
So Far, So Good
I intentionally got there early, so I was already situated well before she showed up. I look up from my phone and there she is. I don't even have to ask her to sit beside me, she just does it. Of course, I had picked a spot and moved around the tables and chairs a little so as to make that natural! (Am I evil? HAHAHA.)
I must say I'm sold on Seppuku's suggestion of getting the girl to sit beside you. I'd had a date with this same girl 3 years prior, but that time she'd been across from me. This time there was a lot more incidental touch, and it was much easier to do without it being contrived (palm reading or whatever). Escalation would obviously be much easier. She shared more personal stuff too, although that was also due to better conversational skills.
The first minute or two we were both sort of semi-awkwardly searching for stuff to say, smalltalk I guess, but shortly thereafter it got much better.
The main thing I did better conversationally was to approach it with the goal of getting her to talk about herself, rather than impress her. I wouldn't say it was a mechanically perfect "deep dive" session, but I did employ the technique at points. This was more or less my first time doing that purposefully and getting anywhere with it. She did open up quite a lot and share some core personality that I hadn't seen the first time. We connected well.
Perhaps the biggest conversational challenge was that she was trying to do the same thing to me! In fact, the same thing has happened on every recent date. I want them talking about themselves but they get curious about me. I try to deflect but it's hard because you can't too much or they're going to think you're too aloof. I'd say I kept it about 60%/40% on her, though I realize higher may have been better. Do I need to work on this more or is that ok?
One thing that didn't entirely put my mind at ease, was the girl not only attending church every week, but having a parent in the clergy! But she also related a strong separation between church life and the rest of her existence, so I'm not really sure where this puts us. I have to wonder if it's a front to keep the parent happy, lol. But she does seem a little less wild than many girls...
What Is That Thing I'm Supposed To Be Going For, Again? Sex, Was It?
So, having gotten there early even for 7pm, I decided to use the spare time before Cherelle's arrival to re-read Seppuku's escalation routine a few times, since that was probably the most alien of the tasks I'd soon be faced with.
When I got to the part about not being nervous, I thought to myself, "Oh great, I am finished!" Hahaha.
Actually, after she showed up and we got talking, I was not very nervous. What I was, was repressed. I was raised by a society that taught me that girls don't like it when guys make moves on them. On a conscious level, I know this to be largely wrong. But that unconscious programming led me to very conservative interpretations of her body language, as well as a tremendous fear of offending her. How the hell do I get this shit out of my brain?!
As a result, while I did touch her a fair bit, it was largely only in a friendly as opposed to sexual manner.
The most I dared was to push back her hair with the back of my hand. Once. Briefly. This didn't bother her in the slightest, yet I was too scared to keep it up. (Too bad it was straightened instead of natural; I can't resist kinky hair!)
One of the things that I felt was holding me back was the distance she had sat at. While she did sit beside me on her own, she was perhaps a foot away on the bench. I wanted her closer but didn't know how to do it! I felt like if I moved closer to her, it would seem chasey or tacky. It occurred to me - alas, only afterwards, - that I probably should have tried to get her to come closer, instead. On a date, do you ask her to sit closer even when she's already beside you? Or just pull her over? Or should I have just escalated with her a foot or so away?
Sitting beside her did have one strange effect. She didn't always look at me; sometimes she would, but other times she'd just be looking forwards, enough that it felt weird. Myself, I was looking at her the majority of the time, although I, too, talked forwards at some points. I made a point to not actually turn my body towards her, or at least not much. How is this all supposed to go, in the side-by-side posture?
"She touches you back" did not happen, at all. Save for her going for a parting hug. The other girl I had on a date semi-recently was the same. Why aren't girls touching me? I have had it happen in past, in the context of horsing around (that could have been sexualized quite easily), but not recently. Maybe it's because I am not allowing my touch to linger enough... I do tend to make it pretty brief, out of shyness.
She was also sitting with her legs crossed. Does this mean she is sexually closed off? That is how I interpreted it, which did not help me any! I'm trying to remember if she was doing that all along, or if she only did that after I was looking at her bare thighs here and there. (I couldn't help it; brown skin was poppin'!) I wanted to touch, but my brain was doing something largely analogous to approach anxiety; I felt like I couldn't.
She had this knit shawl, and from time to time she'd pull the sides over her low-cut top that was otherwise revealing enough of her breasts to make me have the odd look. My eyes weren't as shy as my hands! It didn't feel at the time like I had bothered her, though.
Actually, at at least one point she did this, it seemed like she'd caught a chill. Had I any sense in my head, I'd have responded to this by pulling her in!
Even The Words Were Too Much!
There were at least two points where Cherelle brought up overtly sexual stuff, albeit only in third-person contexts. I wanted to capitalize, but in the moment my brain could not come up with any clever ways to do so.
One such point was when we were discussing strange foods. I was prompting for a show which she identified as Fear Factor, and she went on to relate how contestants have had to eat bull testicles, creamed at that, and beside that they had tiger penis. She said it was a good thing nobody [among us] was having cream. I was very frustrated at my brain's utter inability to think of anything clever to say here!
I think one large sticking point for me is that my mind isn't "dirty" enough! How can I make my mind "dirtier"?
One story I ended up relating because she had asked, involved a guy seeing me with a couple ladies (who I had indirectly identified as friends) and talking to me because he thought I was a player. I actually told it as such, but I had to wonder if I'd have profited much more greatly from telling it in a way that implied he was right rather than wrong!
The only good thing I did with sex and words, was to repeat the anti-slut-shaming gambit inspired by Alek I recently used with the African girl modeling for a Caribbean event. Cherelle is a big fan of the event, and I asked her what it was that she likes best about it. She gave a pedestrian answer and asked me the same. I mentioned liking how liberating it is, women being free to do provocative dances, for instance. I remarked on society being so judgemental.
I said, "if a man has history, people will say he's 'the man'; but if a woman has history..."
She quietly filled in, "they'll call her a whore."
Exactly, I replied, pointing out how this was unfair.
Cherelle agreed, although I didn't notice as marked a change in her demeanor as I did with the African girl. Maybe it's because I was being a little more conservative, using the words "has history" instead of "sleeps with a lot of" like I did with the African girl. Cherelle seemed a little more conservative, so I felt I had to tone it down a bit, though maybe that was a mistake.
Not My Night
At somewhere around 45m in, we had been conversing well, and though there hadn't been much escalation, I decided to go for the pull - mainly because it seems not trying is often the biggest cause of failure.
Earlier on, Cherelle had shown interest in my creative projects, so I brought one up and suggested she see it. She wanted a practical clarification, which I gave with enough vagueness to not totally eliminate the mystique, and followed with the suggestion that we could go do that as I'm like 5 minutes away. She'd like to, but not today.
To be honest, I wasn't expecting that at all. Usually in dissecting a date I'll find that the girl had done something that in retrospect looks like a ploy to come home with me or vice-versa. It's ironic that the one time I actually go for what they always seem to want anyway, it doesn't work! Well, actually it did work in another semi-recent case, although in that case the girl had virtually invited herself after my baiting her with the projects.
Afterwards, I almost thought that maybe I hadn't done enough escalating. But to be honest, I'd done even less in that recent case where a girl had invited herself, and also in all the other cases where I had dropped the ball when the girl was scheming to come home. So, what did go wrong? Was it just a simple matter of her not having the logistics? But I highly suspect she could have.
I was taken a bit off guard so just gave a "hmp" and broke rapport a bit by facing forwards, then after a moment changed the subject.
I was a bit torn between making an all-out effort or dropping it. I knew that making a more determined effort was high-stakes in that, if I didn't turn her around, it would only serve to cement my failure in her mind. Her answer lacked any trace of uncertainty, so this seemed a severe risk. I had already pulled a next date after 3 years out of my ass, so I considered it easier to just go for another day.
If it wasn't happening today, I wanted to end the date before it got old. But not wanting to end on a low note, I chatted a bit more. Once it was smoothed over, I checked the time and said we couldn't be too long.
Shortly after, she asked me what I'd do later. My story had to be congruent, so I made up something that required me home briefly and then left the rest of the night open. Her question wasn't a suggestion, was it? I didn't take it as such because she had already indicated she wasn't coming home with me. I said I might take a walk or get some work done.
A bit more chatting and I checked the time again. She noticed this and brought up the fact that she owed me a drink (she'd flaked the day before so I'd set that condition) and asked what I wanted. In retrospect I wonder if I'd have been better to tell her, save it for another time, but instead I just told her what to get, and she got us drinks.
At some point she mentioned a TV show of particular significance to her that came on at 9pm. I hope that wasn't meant as a hint, because I watch so much TV that I don't even have one!
Her drink took a while to cool off, and then she nursed it, so against my plans we actually wound up together a fairly long time; about 1h45m in total. Mind you, the dynamic was, she was the one keeping me when I had to leave, and indeed, when we did finally part it was basically at my gesturing; so I don't think this was as deleterious as it would have been had it been me trying to hang onto the date.
Towards the end, I brought up scheduling logistics. Basically, she made herself quite available ongoing, and moreso than before. She indicated this Saturday was open, so we tentatively planned for it.
By the time we were done, it was a little past the 9pm her show would've been on at.
Then she did something small yet funny: she asked if she should drop me home. Now, she had no idea what my transportation situation was or how I had gotten to the date; so why did she ask me this? It started bothering me afterwards. Was she hoping that I'd incidentally invite her in? I hope not, because I just answered that I had to pick up a few things and so we parted ways in the coffee shop.
Now What?
Seems pretty obvious: set up the date at my place A.S.A.P. But that does leave a question:
If you get a girl home on some pretense, how practical is it to then omit it?
I have fascinating creative projects that make good bait to get a girl home; I like this because it's not boring or cliché! However, last time I tried it, it backfired, because (i) the girl was actually interested in it and wouldn't stop asking questions, and (ii) it had us in office chairs (albeit fairly close to both a bed and ample floor space). My real issue was not having the balls to even try escalation, but these complications did not help any.
So, I would much rather not even take the girl to see these things until we've already fucked. The plan would be for us to sit on the couch in the living room and do some deep diving, escalation, and take her right there before even going to the other room where the projects can be invoked. But I'm concerned the girl might get uptight that I'm pulling a bait-and-switch on her.
With Cherelle, there's another obvious option. She loves cooking and baking. I've dabbled a tiny bit but haven't had time to get into it more. I could invite her to help me with some new recipe I want to try. But my kitchen is not properly set up right now so I might have to delay further to deal with that, but I want to get her over sooner! Not to mention, I already interested her in seeing the projects, so I'm not sure I should abandon that pretense now.
There you have it. Any clarifications much appreciated!
