I've only ever opened a girl once during the day. It was a public transit situation and turned into one of my casual relationships until I left the city several months later.
Today, I was shopping at Wal-Mart in the makeup aisle, looking at micellar water. It's typically a makeup remover, but works as a light cleanser for the mornings.
Any woman is at least going to take note, be confused, or perhaps intrigued about a guy reading ingredients in that aisle.
This beautiful professional woman in a high quality camel-colored overcoat hovered/positioned so hard, it was mind-blowing. She gave me an insane amount of time. It was almost like a dance as I slowly moved around the aisle. She could not have been more obvious.
I chickened out and left the aisle. She lined up at checkout. I walked past soon after, and she spun her cart around. She actually left the line and bee-lined right in front of me, then was basically in stride with me, just a step or so ahead. After ten seconds or so, she ejected to the women's clothing section and I could tell she wasn't shopping there at all, but was just looking kind of lost (since I failed her). Her attire was also so far from Wal-Mart's offerings. I kicked myself so hard in the car and told myself I was an idiot out loud.
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All of the above was just context of where I'm at with approach anxiety, which is nowhere.
So my question is: How would you open a woman who is begging to be approached in a public shopping setting? What can you do that is different than a typical approach to essentially capitalize on an extreme situation?
I could have done something situational with the products, indirect-direct, or perhaps even direct given how much she wanted it.
But to any day game guys with good fundamentals, do you treat these situations as any other, or can you share any tips to really solidify a chase frame before she's even said anything, and without making her feel weird about it?
How would you open a woman who is begging to be approached in a public shopping setting? What can you do that is different than a typical approach to essentially capitalize on an extreme situation?
I could have done something situational with the products, indirect-direct, or perhaps even direct given how much she wanted it.
But to any day game guys with good fundamentals, do you treat these situations as any other, or can you share any tips to really solidify a chase frame before she's even said anything, and without making her feel weird about it?
Lol I also have a really big problem with girls giving me way too much AIs and then I get too nervous to approach. I think it's a cyclical thing, like:
You see girl, girl sees you, both are attracted.
She doesn't see attractive guys that much, so she wants to make a bit of a move, but she's a girl, so she's not just gonna approach, she hovers, plays with her hair, shows up her body a bit, maybe a lot, overtly.
I've been approached before, but it's very rare and generally doesn't turn into much, also the girls generally aren't quite my type and the girls that are I'm their as well and they would be too nervous to do that much, anyway
Now she's even more nervous because she exposed herself, she made a move, so you must make a bit of a move, but I get it, as a guy, in general you don't expect that, it's rare, so you reprocicate a bit, but not enough, probably (by approaching or almost, at least making your interest very clear). You start getting nervous and maybe chasing a bit, because you realise you haven't done enough.
She sees you're a bit nervous and maybe trying to recover, but she can't really do much, you made her nervous, she tried her best, so she just keeps on being nervous, maybe even gets more nervous, which makes you more nervous, and then you reaaally can't aproach...
Now realize the problem starts when you don't approach. If you were at a familiar setting (like for me, clubs or bars, at night, probably), you would almost certainly approach a girl that is giving you an overt AI like that, right? But since you don't feel that confident, or even expect a girl to act like that on your current environment, you're paralyzed by doubt. But how do you approach a girl in that situation? Truth is, there are better ways to approach girls in certain situations, but when a girl gives you an overt AI, specially on some random situation, the best thing you can do is just... approach. In fact, that's how you learn. And you can't really know for sure what the best opener without getting close to her and trying to talk to her, you don't even know her, or maybe even the situation, it's all new for you.
You have to realize this whole "I need to know how to do it before doing it" it's bullshit your brain makes up to prevent you from trying and failing, which ultimately, is the only way to improve. Yes, our brains are dumb and fuck us up sometimes, specially when it comes to approaching women.
Ok, so what can you do BEFORE it gets to the point of panic of "I gotta approach NOOOOW"? You can help her not invest so much. Make it more of a dance, so she doesn't throw herself so much into you, to the point where you gotta throw yourself as well, but you really can't go that far. I can only write from my experience, and I've experienced episodes like this for quite a while in public transportation (now that I'm working at an office again, it happens to me quite a few times a week). But generally the way it starts is:
Fine girl gets near me (she might have noticed me before, she might not).
I notice her and have a good look...
She notices me (or pretends to notice or at least notices me while I'm looking at her) and shows attraction. Again, classical signs are playing with her hair, her hands near her legs/tits/ass, adjusting her clothing, her posture, looking down, trying to look more feminine, smaller, and so on...
Now, do you just keep on staring at her? That is just gonna make her more nervous. You already know she likes you. Withdraw your attention quite a bit, but let her know you still there and you like her (at least her looks, that you find her attractive). Then the next thing is to just approach. You have to find an opening and just go. It's almost hypocritical for me to write this, as I pretty much never approached a girl in such a situation, but I've been there so many times, it's comical. And at first, I would make the girl's emotion crest so high me and her would be too nervous to do anything about it, but eventually I learned to chill a bit, so I can at least think.
Another thing I've found is there's indeed a sort of dance you can do, you can play with the girl when she's on that state, to the point where she's almost approaching you... But indeed she won't approach you, because she's just way too nervous. Last Friday, this beautiful girl straight up turned to me and stared before leaving the bus, whispering something with her lips before parting (I had my earplugs on blasting loud music, so I don't even know if she said anything, really, shoulda taken them off slowly and approached her in the most casual way possible). I'm not even sure this is a good thing, because again, I was just cresting her emotions, but I was doing it veeery slowly, with calibration, I guess you could say, and had I knew she was leaving soon, maybe I would have approached. But what I can say, is, you gotta chillll, you have to take the girls emotions and take care of them, let them cool a bit (and also don't get yourself too excited... she's just a cool girl, she thinks you're hot, that's normal, you're an attractive guy, right? ABUUUNDANCE)... Just keep her emotions warm enough for you to approach, but then, you gotta approach.
And on approaching, I know I'm not an authority on the subject, but on my experience, you just gotta do it. People talk about lots of hacks and momentum and whatnot, but, by the end of the day (or night), you either approach or you don't. To me, it's like skating or riding a bit, there a certain leap of faith there, you just gotta throw yourself and hope for the best. Of course, read what you can and practice makes perfect, but there's no way to learn without just doing it.
Hopefully this helps somehow, this also helps me think about those girls I let getaway (to many to count at this point, but I promise to approach as many of them as I can, from now on)...
Hmm its a big question but nonverbals and not quite facing her usually help set chase frame. You know what she’s thinking…make her know you know.
Try something simple for an opener. No need to be all gamey.
Situational can be really good here with the right subtext. Sexual but discreet and not too forward (which is important for chase frame). About that I’ll add that as I’ve learned recently from infield, effortless discretion (which encompasses calmness) is the mark of the skilled seducer/lover. Difficult to counterfeit, and experienced women know to look for it.
Beck has some good tips here about AA. I’d like to add that sometimes if you force yourself to open, the hardest part is over and you can just be. Because at the end of the day, once you’re infield there is no more brushing up on skills here or anywhere. Time’s up and you have to perform as best as you can. Embrace that mindset.
I've only ever opened a girl once during the day. It was a public transit situation and turned into one of my casual relationships until I left the city several months later.
Today, I was shopping at Wal-Mart in the makeup aisle, looking at micellar water. It's typically a makeup remover, but works as a light cleanser for the mornings.
Any woman is at least going to take note, be confused, or perhaps intrigued about a guy reading ingredients in that aisle.
This beautiful professional woman in a high quality camel-colored overcoat hovered/positioned so hard, it was mind-blowing. She gave me an insane amount of time. It was almost like a dance as I slowly moved around the aisle. She could not have been more obvious.
I chickened out and left the aisle. She lined up at checkout. I walked past soon after, and she spun her cart around. She actually left the line and bee-lined right in front of me, then was basically in stride with me, just a step or so ahead. After ten seconds or so, she ejected to the women's clothing section and I could tell she wasn't shopping there at all, but was just looking kind of lost (since I failed her). Her attire was also so far from Wal-Mart's offerings. I kicked myself so hard in the car and told myself I was an idiot out loud.
----------
All of the above was just context of where I'm at with approach anxiety, which is nowhere.
So my question is: How would you open a woman who is begging to be approached in a public shopping setting? What can you do that is different than a typical approach to essentially capitalize on an extreme situation?
I could have done something situational with the products, indirect-direct, or perhaps even direct given how much she wanted it.
But to any day game guys with good fundamentals, do you treat these situations as any other, or can you share any tips to really solidify a chase frame before she's even said anything, and without making her feel weird about it?
One of the important things when it comes to day game approaching is "awareness".
I'm pretty sure you got inside your head thinking about fundamentals, chase frame etc. This is what affected you more than anything.
Next time, if something like this happens become "aware" of yourself, the girl and surroundings - become aware of what you're thinking, become aware of what the girl is wearing/doing/her body language/facial expressions etc, become aware of how far she's standing from you/where she's facing etc. This all happens in a matter of secs if you're aware. Once you do this, any opener will work.
You could've opened with any of these:
- you seem like you take care of yourself a lot? (It's both a compliment and situational - buying makeup stuff and it opens up a door to continue the conversation)
- Is this where you always buy your makeup? I'm a bit stuck on whether I can buy this.
- Do you always buy specific brands or try to be adventurous with trying new things? I'm a bit stuck in choosing this stuff (This opens up a lot to continue)
There can be many more. But if you noticed closely, none of them are risky. You don't seem like you're hitting on her. You say all of these "matter of factly". Based on her response, you can change your vibe.
I've not used this a lot but if you're really unable to come up with anything in the moment (which has happened to me a few times):
- There was something about you that I can't a put a finger on. Thought I'll come find out.
Have crutch openers in your back pocket: for me it's mainly hair and shoes. Most chics, if she's attractive will have good hair (long/short/blonde/dark/colorful/curly/dense/braids etc) or shoes (elegant/matching/heels/clean/cool/weird colors etc). I've opened with all of these when I couldn't come up with any opener.
Have crutch openers in your back pocket: for me it's mainly hair and shoes. Most chics, if she's attractive will have good hair (long/short/blonde/dark/colorful/curly/dense/braids etc) or shoes (elegant/matching/heels/clean/cool/weird colors etc). I've opened with all of these when I couldn't come up with any opener.
Nice one, will think about those and keep them on the back of my mind for when I need them...
Though I think opening with compliments is not quite my style, at least not so directly... Hard for me to seem thaaat excited about a girls' hair looking good lmao
In the article on causes and cures for a moody girlfriend, a reader asks about how to compliment a girl, saying: “Hi there Chase, Can you write an article about compliments to girls that [you] are interested in. Not just from that you approached cold but girls that you met through hobbies or...
www.girlschase.com
"Hey, you know, that's a really beautiful coat you have on. That camel color looks perfect on you."
Keep in mind if you've hesitated and she's thrown a lot of AIs it can go one of two ways:
She's so excited you opened her that she starts gushing.
She's also so nervous after all that parading and positioning that she doesn't know what to say and just sort of awkwardly accepts the compliment.
The #1 girls aren't an issue. But the #2 girls, if you open hesitant, and then she is hesitant, and you're both too nervous to do anything, you will both end up kicking yourselves later. The way around that is for you to just keep it in mind that you need to keep going for a bit until she's comfortable enough to talk.
That's like:
YOU: Hey, you know, that's a really beautiful coat you have on. That camel color looks perfect on you.
HER: Thanks!
YOU: Yeah, it's really great. You don't see a lot of people with a good fashion sense around here. So what've you got in your basket there?
HER: Oh, just some groceries to cook dinner tonight with.
YOU: Don't tell me you're a cook AND a fashionista?
HER: [laughs] No, I'm really not that good a cook.
YOU: Well, no need to be modest. My name's Francis, by the way. What's yours?
HER: Jessica.
YOU: Jessica. That's a lovely name. You have a lovely smile! So who's joining you for dinner tonight, got enough ingredients there for two?
Etc.
The rough structure I follow for these is GENUINE COMPLIMENT --> SITUATIONALLY RELEVANT REMARK --> SCREEN --> NAME EXCHANGE --> ADDITIONAL COMPLIMENT --> HINT AT ASKING HER OUT / DOING SOMETHING TOGETHER WITH HER.
My assumption is if she is signaling me hard she is also going to tend to be nervous, so I really just want to put her at ease by showing I like her and that I'd like to do something with her, without sacrificing the 'naturalness' of the conversation or looking like I just take whatever girl comes along (so you make a situationally relevant remark right after the compliment, and you screen her on something fast too).
You don't have to remember all that right now though.
Just remember this:
If a girl's throwing you a bunch of signals, look for something about her you genuinely like and compliment her on that.
Assume also that you may need to carry the conversation alone for up to two minutes after you open -- especially if she is nervous.
Nice one, will think about those and keep them on the back of my mind for when I need them...
Though I think opening with compliments is not quite my style, at least not so directly... Hard for me to seem thaaat excited about a girls' hair looking good lmao
Most chics know that your compliment/opener is just a means to an end. Although if you really mean what you say, it's a bonus. It's mostly how you say it is what matters, in my experience.
For ex: if I'm walking behind a hot chic with a tight booty, I catch-up to her and compliment on her beautiful long "hair" with a smirk and deep eye contact. She obviously knows that my eyes liked what they saw just a little below the long hair lol
Some chics have later teased me for opening with a lame opener and we've laughed together about it
In the article on causes and cures for a moody girlfriend, a reader asks about how to compliment a girl, saying: “Hi there Chase, Can you write an article about compliments to girls that [you] are interested in. Not just from that you approached cold but girls that you met through hobbies or...
www.girlschase.com
"Hey, you know, that's a really beautiful coat you have on. That camel color looks perfect on you."
Keep in mind if you've hesitated and she's thrown a lot of AIs it can go one of two ways:
She's so excited you opened her that she starts gushing.
She's also so nervous after all that parading and positioning that she doesn't know what to say and just sort of awkwardly accepts the compliment.
The #1 girls aren't an issue. But the #2 girls, if you open hesitant, and then she is hesitant, and you're both too nervous to do anything, you will both end up kicking yourselves later. The way around that is for you to just keep it in mind that you need to keep going for a bit until she's comfortable enough to talk.
That's like:
YOU: Hey, you know, that's a really beautiful coat you have on. That camel color looks perfect on you.
HER: Thanks!
YOU: Yeah, it's really great. You don't see a lot of people with a good fashion sense around here. So what've you got in your basket there?
HER: Oh, just some groceries to cook dinner tonight with.
YOU: Don't tell me you're a cook AND a fashionista?
HER: [laughs] No, I'm really not that good a cook.
YOU: Well, no need to be modest. My name's Francis, by the way. What's yours?
HER: Jessica.
YOU: Jessica. That's a lovely name. You have a lovely smile! So who's joining you for dinner tonight, got enough ingredients there for two?
Etc.
The rough structure I follow for these is GENUINE COMPLIMENT --> SITUATIONALLY RELEVANT REMARK --> SCREEN --> NAME EXCHANGE --> ADDITIONAL COMPLIMENT --> HINT AT ASKING HER OUT / DOING SOMETHING TOGETHER WITH HER.
My assumption is if she is signaling me hard she is also going to tend to be nervous, so I really just want to put her at ease by showing I like her and that I'd like to do something with her, without sacrificing the 'naturalness' of the conversation or looking like I just take whatever girl comes along (so you make a situationally relevant remark right after the compliment, and you screen her on something fast too).
You don't have to remember all that right now though.
Just remember this:
If a girl's throwing you a bunch of signals, look for something about her you genuinely like and compliment her on that.
Assume also that you may need to carry the conversation alone for up to two minutes after you open -- especially if she is nervous.
Most chics know that your compliment/opener is just a means to an end. Although if you really mean what you say, it's a bonus. It's mostly how you say it is what matters, in my experience.
For ex: if I'm walking behind a hot chic with a tight booty, I catch-up to her and compliment on her beautiful long "hair" with a smirk and deep eye contact. She obviously knows that my eyes liked what they saw just a little below the long hair lol
Makes sense, on most of my approaches that go well I barely care about what I'm saying, I mostly just fuck around and play with the girl lol
I guess I'm trying too hard to convey ALL of my interest on this super genuine special compliment, when how I really convey how much I like her it's through my non verbals, as you say.
I think by the end of the day I just gotta get some reps in those environs I'm not used to, I think most of this hesitation from the lack of experience, by the end of the day.
The rough structure I follow for these is GENUINE COMPLIMENT --> SITUATIONALLY RELEVANT REMARK --> SCREEN --> NAME EXCHANGE --> ADDITIONAL COMPLIMENT --> HINT AT ASKING HER OUT / DOING SOMETHING TOGETHER WITH HER.
Oh that's great to see, I'm really lacking some structure when I approach. I like freestyling, but you gotta have a solid foundation to build upon.
I like the relevant remark before the screening, and the screening itself it's smooooth, for sure part of my game that I need to iron out. Thanks for showing us how it's done @Chase!
In the article on causes and cures for a moody girlfriend, a reader asks about how to compliment a girl, saying: “Hi there Chase, Can you write an article about compliments to girls that [you] are interested in. Not just from that you approached cold but girls that you met through hobbies or...
www.girlschase.com
"Hey, you know, that's a really beautiful coat you have on. That camel color looks perfect on you."
Keep in mind if you've hesitated and she's thrown a lot of AIs it can go one of two ways:
She's so excited you opened her that she starts gushing.
She's also so nervous after all that parading and positioning that she doesn't know what to say and just sort of awkwardly accepts the compliment.
The #1 girls aren't an issue. But the #2 girls, if you open hesitant, and then she is hesitant, and you're both too nervous to do anything, you will both end up kicking yourselves later. The way around that is for you to just keep it in mind that you need to keep going for a bit until she's comfortable enough to talk.
That's like:
YOU: Hey, you know, that's a really beautiful coat you have on. That camel color looks perfect on you.HER: Thanks!YOU: Yeah, it's really great. You don't see a lot of people with a good fashion sense around here. So what've you got in your basket there?HER: Oh, just some groceries to cook dinner tonight with.YOU: Don't tell me you're a cook AND a fashionista?HER: [laughs] No, I'm really not that good a cook.YOU: Well, no need to be modest. My name's Francis, by the way. What's yours?HER: Jessica.YOU: Jessica. That's a lovely name. You have a lovely smile! So who's joining you for dinner tonight, got enough ingredients there for two?
Etc.
The rough structure I follow for these is GENUINE COMPLIMENT --> SITUATIONALLY RELEVANT REMARK --> SCREEN --> NAME EXCHANGE --> ADDITIONAL COMPLIMENT --> HINT AT ASKING HER OUT / DOING SOMETHING TOGETHER WITH HER.
My assumption is if she is signaling me hard she is also going to tend to be nervous, so I really just want to put her at ease by showing I like her and that I'd like to do something with her, without sacrificing the 'naturalness' of the conversation or looking like I just take whatever girl comes along (so you make a situationally relevant remark right after the compliment, and you screen her on something fast too).
You don't have to remember all that right now though.
Just remember this:
If a girl's throwing you a bunch of signals, look for something about her you genuinely like and compliment her on that.
Assume also that you may need to carry the conversation alone for up to two minutes after you open -- especially if she is nervous.
say you aren't as ballsy, a bit nervous, or you just aren't really a compliment guy (test compliments out as they are good tools to get right and I've read great articles on this site about them) but there is another option as well
Less pressure on her, more leeway for you. This simple technique lowers her defenses and sets you apart from all the ‘other’ guys. Hey, guys, and welcome back. So, previously I shared a quick recap of the keys to hooking a girl – or a group – into a conversation. Contents 1. Speaker-Centered...
Showing a girl that you get her and are not just another douche makes her see you as a refreshing and attractive guy. Reality pace openers get this done within seconds. Contents 1. Pacing Her Reality: Simply Explained 2. The Underlying Strategy 3. Examples of Reality Pacing 4. Recap In today’s...
www.girlschase.com
but I daygame quite a bit in malls, bookstores, general stores and alternated all these great options. My big breakthrough in college when I started extracting chicks from where I met them was when I used these two up above.
Now many ways to skin a cat and get the conversation going. Goes without saying I've at this point had some success with all openers. We're just getting the convo started.
if you are just completely at a lost and she's throwing all those signs just saying "Hi" might be enough for a nervous excited social meet to begin...which could give way to a sensual rhythmic sexual meet to unfold out of it.
But first
you must inhale then exhale some words
when that becomes as comfortable as breathing
you'll no longer be in an aisle or club wondering what to say, but instead
what could happen
then she tells you she's nonbinary and you wonder what to say to it again
Hey @mist, would appreciate if you could elaborate on those.
I think a good part of why I started reading the forums and ended up joining was how Bacchus (RIP lol) said he was able to approach a girl in pretty much any situation (I remember being specially interested in some field reports in bus stations/stops and stuff like that).
But with that said... I never... quite... really... understood... Bacchus writing (or more like, had the patience for it lmao, maybe it's just not... my... style?!?).
I read the article, but to me, a lot of those openers would almost be ignored by a girl that isn't overly polite or isn't super interested (maybe I was just traumatized by some really bitchy girls I talked about uninteresting stuff when I was much younger, but idk). And if she is so interested, why not cut to the chase and get down to it (with more direct game)?
Plus, to me, it just FEELS like too much effort (and a headache) to (try and) cold read a girl on that level. To me, it's not like a "meta" cold read, but a very specific one, where you're trying to predict the emotional state (and how it relates to the environment and whatnot...) of a girl you barely know... I mean, I consider myself a very level headed, calm guy, and still, I have those CRAZY emotional ups and downs... and I assume it's not that obvious what I'm really feeling at a given moment... And I can't even imagine what a girl must feel, with all those hormones going nuts during their cycle.
What I'm saying, basically, is that it just seems too much effort to even work, plus I'm not even sure where to start... Because a lot of those examples, to me, seem like mundade chit chat that would only lead to anything with girls that are very on already. Maybe I'm understanding this all wrong, and I get that sometimes the most important thing is to just approach and make convo, no matter what you say, but this whole style of game doesn't sound like my cup of tea, and my cup of tea just doesn't seem to work in those situations
1. These are just tools and methods. There are different ways to skin a cat and contexts where it works and it duds, but most importantly you must decide what you want to learn and secondly actually test your predictions.
As there is no reason to be so sure if you haven't gotten data points and experimented with different factors and wildcards in this artistry.
2. Nightgame and Daygame have states on different hedonic treadmill paces. Regardless if you are not leading and working with her reactions prompting beneficial frames and discussion that is on you regardless of her initial dtfness and state.
But again you decide what you do or don't do with the opportunities you run into.
3. Speak or don't speak. That is first concern with opening. the art is in doing it well, but even if you come up with the best thing it means nothing if you cannot get past speak or don't speak.
4. Spoiler warning for those who go below...I am not indepth explaining Bacchus tech. That'd be offtopic and frankly there are more universal themes in his reply that are important to this thread. Sorry for the disappointment, if that is what you are expecting below, but imagine me asking you to define how Teevster using sex talk in his hooks, Glow's masterful prompting AI's, or Topcats cutting edge online game frame...
There's a little cold reads but I am not Bacchus...i am mist. If you are still interested in Reality Pace Openers lemme know but it's only one thing no need to get so wrapped in it. Other things can work.
Situational Openers are options too or as stated earlier indirect direct like chase detailed or Direct Genuine Compliments as Chase showcased as well.
Sorry guys I am not velasco nor am I Bacchus I hope you can still accept me
Hey @mist, would appreciate if you could elaborate on those.
I think a good part of why I started reading the forums and ended up joining was how Bacchus (RIP lol) said he was able to approach a girl in pretty much any situation (I remember being specially interested in some field reports in bus stations/stops and stuff like that).
But with that said... I never... quite... really... understood... Bacchus writing (or more like, had the patience for it lmao, maybe it's just not... my... style?!?).
I read the article, but to me, a lot of those openers would almost be ignored by a girl that isn't overly polite or isn't super interested (maybe I was just traumatized by some really bitchy girls I talked about uninteresting stuff when I was much younger, but idk). And if she is so interested, why not cut to the chase and get down to it (with more direct game)?
Plus, to me, it just FEELS like too much effort (and a headache) to (try and) cold read a girl on that level. To me, it's not like a "meta" cold read, but a very specific one, where you're trying to predict the emotional state (and how it relates to the environment and whatnot...) of a girl you barely know... I mean, I consider myself a very level headed, calm guy, and still, I have those CRAZY emotional ups and downs... and I assume it's not that obvious what I'm really feeling at a given moment... And I can't even imagine what a girl must feel, with all those hormones going nuts during their cycle.
What I'm saying, basically, is that it just seems too much effort to even work, plus I'm not even sure where to start... Because a lot of those examples, to me, seem like mundade chit chat that would only lead to anything with girls that are very on already. Maybe I'm understanding this all wrong, and I get that sometimes the most important thing is to just approach and make convo, no matter what you say, but this whole style of game doesn't sound like my cup of tea, and my cup of tea just doesn't seem to work in those situations
It's no worries man only one example and style of what can be done and you can get other things to work like Speaker Centered Openers or Situational/Observational Openers.
Which require only you being present in the moment and saying something relevant to the moment you are in with the chick...
"Gee the sun sure is shining"
"The music in here makes me feel like we are really sophisticated"
"Oh man I definitely forgot something in the other aisle, you ever had that happen"
"Nah that item isn't it...but this one is."
"Your outfit really fits the vibe" or "Your outfit looks like you should model here"
"Wow! That's a lot of groceries for one chick...what's the party?"
Just top of my head different things.
But let's get to it as I respect you Beck Bass and you actually will work on things.
I read the article, but to me, a lot of those openers would almost be ignored by a girl that isn't overly polite or isn't super interested (maybe I was just traumatized by some really bitchy girls I talked about uninteresting stuff when I was much younger, but idk). And if she is so interested, why not cut to the chase and get down to it (with more direct game)?
The debate of direct vs indirect really is quite silly when you really get to it. It depends on the girl and the context.
Calibrate.
Provided you are leading, you being more direct or indirect is mostly a style thing and your method of ramping her compliance, handling objections, and navigating her states.
Now obvious pros to indirect are you can be covert and it will allow you to slip in and work with more women regardless of where their initial compliance and state is while maintaining your frame.
Can secure you from kneejerk reactions and even better just make you a more creative man verbally as you are more attentive and flexible to different scenarios.
Direct when she is socially intune with you, your frame is rock solid, and fundamentals are above average atleast possibly even niched for her... magic. Can be a lot of fun, feel more masculine, and you get sexual frame verbally which many men struggle to create and utilize without words...but you are giving frame and putting yourself out there quite a bit and can make the chick quite self conscious not only on your open, but until you close things out.
You are aware of women's changing states, some have the ability to project state that short circuits dudes (strippers, pornstars, bar attention whore, SC "prize), and the need for windows and tests to be navigated in the moment or risk prolonging/ending the courtship-lover...
I'm not saying that chick in the mall is that, but I am saying that nightgame shows you moment to moment fantastical levels of this. This is great as you have more grit than most men, but also you need to daygame a bit and navigate influencing a chick through all beneficial states, creating the sexual frame, and closing things out before it is fair to prescribe
"she is so interested, why not cut to the chase and get down to it" aka dtf
London Daygamers and Alpha youtube junkies think like this...it has limited success.
You're not really cutting to the chase always with direct game even with high interest and you aren't causing autorejections or prolonging always either with indirect.
It's contextual and you must be intent on moving things forward and testing.
Me personally...I prefer the more covert approach as it allows me more time and more women to build compliance with. As if you are baseline attractive to her and safe she is imagining sex at some level early...their all dtf, but your game brings out how they express that.
So why this or why that? Their just tools man an artist finds what will work for him, has a style he is biased towards, and has learned to work with the shortcomings and risks of his methods and tools.
Learn the tools and use them as you will.
I'm ignored sometimes, but other times I have a married woman ask to smoke weed with me in her car...(she got direct approached right before we met and I said something and it completely dudded. My situational then lead into covert sex talk worked up until I tried to get her outside of work haha dangerous game)
So I'mma keep working on it all until I'm not ignored in many contexts.
Plus, to me, it just FEELS like too much effort (and a headache) to (try and) cold read a girl on that level. To me, it's not like a "meta" cold read, but a very specific one, where you're trying to predict the emotional state (and how it relates to the environment and whatnot...) of a girl you barely know... I mean, I consider myself a very level headed, calm guy, and still, I have those CRAZY emotional ups and downs... and I assume it's not that obvious what I'm really feeling at a given moment... And I can't even imagine what a girl must feel, with all those hormones going nuts during their cycle.
It's good to be aware of the states you and people around you can or could be in...you are from a night scene heavy background so your reference is fantastical. Daygame is mostly in the middle in terms of hedonic treadmill.
Your aim is to be positive as well people want to feel good and will mirror that.
As you talk to more women in daygame, sit back and picture the room (Chase has a great article on this), and just have fun with it you can make any environment fit into a frame that is beneficial for socializing and easy for a woman to accept.
What I'm saying, basically, is that it just seems too much effort to even work, plus I'm not even sure where to start... Because a lot of those examples, to me, seem like mundade chit chat that would only lead to anything with girls that are very on already. Maybe I'm understanding this all wrong, and I get that sometimes the most important thing is to just approach and make convo, no matter what you say, but this whole style of game doesn't sound like my cup of tea, and my cup of tea just doesn't seem to work in those situations
The rough structure I follow for these is GENUINE COMPLIMENT --> SITUATIONALLY RELEVANT REMARK --> SCREEN --> NAME EXCHANGE --> ADDITIONAL COMPLIMENT --> HINT AT ASKING HER OUT / DOING SOMETHING TOGETHER WITH HER.
You can build this leading structure or use this in the moment off of anything. Now obviously this is contextual...one chick got a vaccine shot and I could not overcome that hurdle and how bad she felt another chick was feeling adventurous and I capitalized on that for an instant date...
But another was just reading her homework in a cafe and I said let's go...she said no...I backtracked a bit and eventually when the window was open again she came with me.
Influence my friend. You can capitalize, or be inhibited by states, but the reason you are here is to learn influence I'd believe.
Besides nothing stops you from putting chase frames, innuendos, compliments, pulling her closer and looking deep into her eyes later on if you like direct flavors...I mean not many ways to indirectly have sex haha
only can be direct with the dick.
but let's lock in
1. This style of game not being your cup of tea
Different ways to skin a cat.
I shit on London Daygamers a lot, but hey they score sometimes and their are even real pussy slayers y'know and I learn from them too...what not to do
sorry only can give them so much credit I'm biased haha
2. Your style of game not working in this context
You aren't actually putting your style of game in daygame scenarios so you don't actually know your shortcomings and strengths.
You still are just getting comfortable not being in the entrancing world nightgame creates and working through day to day regular places.
Go really try to see what you got.
Good game or strengths and weaknesses at various stages of seduction (good openers vs good closers as a dramatic example) follow you wherever you go. Your fundamentals, frame, game follow you in every venue from your bedroom to the mall to the college bar.
3. Your understanding sketchy or it feels unnecessary to understand.
This is not something I can give to you. You must decide what is valuable to you and what you want to truly learn and work with.
Me personally...I will likely not learn Grandmaster Style game and some of Gun's more rambunctious openers requiring charisma will likely not be in my toolkit for a longtime if ever.
Be a scientist. Your mind will make predictions, but without any testing you learn nothing and your predictions will merely lean on your biases.
If you are a natural and positive guy this is to your benefit as strong frame and familiarity with what you do know will allow you to clean in places you are accustomed to.
If this is not the case selectively or period and you are honest...don't be so trusting of your conclusions
especially if they tell you "that attractive girl couldn't have any interest in what I'm gonna say and I probably won't be able to lead this."
because as a scientist what do you learn with that?
@Beck Bass and @Surveyor , hey that makes sense (especially given my skill level) that at this point, it's probably best to just approach and rack up general comfort doing so. Maybe I'm putting the cart before the horse by having too much in my head before even having a baseline level of comfort opening someone.
Sexual but discreet makes sense, and "make her know you know". I was thinking something like "so what are YOU shopping for..?" or "shouldn't you be at work?" (it was weekday mid after-noon) while slowly and obviously scanning her down then up.
@Calibration , thanks for the tip on awareness. I should pick up vipassana meditation to get better at effortless mindfulness while out in the world.
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@Chase , I remember reading your book on an airplane. I had barely spoken to girls in my life, then I deep dived the girl next to me. It was like you had just taught me what an elevator was after years of me thinking they were all closets... and all you have to do is press this button here to get it moving. This is like posting about how to mix bass frequencies and having Dr. Dre show up.
So it sounds like you're rewarding her for trying to bring her interest to your attention, being sincere to reciprocate targeted interest (so she doens't think you would respond to same to every woman in the world), and building comfort to calm her nerves. I suppose by her going out on a limb a bit, it means she sees you as a rare opportunity she didn't want to pass up.
I will think through the whole sequence you mentioned. I have basically no approaching experience. It's interesting and makes sense to see the name exchange after the screen.
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So would any of this change if she's perceived to be a more experienced woman? She seemed very bold and not nervous at all. She was probably about ten years older and the type to hold her own in a business meeting. I was in a dark red hoodie and gym shorts on a pretty cold day, walking real slow. I think it was less "wow I can't miss out on a chance to meet my future husband" and more "give me that young cock right now".
But at the same time, she did not open. There was just a very quick sing-song hum sound. I would think a really forward woman might actually talk first. Maybe she strictly tests for men dominant enough to go for what they want and open her, but I would have thought it would be one fail and you're out in that case, not blatantly leave the checkout line for a second shot at me.
I should get her out of my head, but it really seemed like a "this will very rarely happen again" moment - so I was curious how you guys would handle it. Thanks for all the tips and insights.
@Chase , I remember reading your book on an airplane. I had barely spoken to girls in my life, then I deep dived the girl next to me. It was like you had just taught me what an elevator was after years of me thinking they were all closets... and all you have to do is press this button here to get it moving. This is like posting about how to mix bass frequencies and having Dr. Dre show up.
So it sounds like you're rewarding her for trying to bring her interest to your attention, being sincere to reciprocate targeted interest (so she doens't think you would respond to same to every woman in the world), and building comfort to calm her nerves. I suppose by her going out on a limb a bit, it means she sees you as a rare opportunity she didn't want to pass up.
I will think through the whole sequence you mentioned. I have basically no approaching experience. It's interesting and makes sense to see the name exchange after the screen.
Although I probably wouldn't call it super rare... girls signal to guys all the time. BUT most of the time guys do not do anything about it.
So a lot of the signaling women are doing is a bit exciting, a bit nerve-wracking, but also a bit abstract. Much of the time she will be feeling something along the lines of, "That guy seems cute. I wonder if I can get his attention. But I don't think he will actually come up."
When you do actually approach, because it is an uncommon event (most guys she signals never approach... more of them may look at her or signal her back but still not approach... others never respond or notice at all, etc.), she's usually going to be a bit flustered.
But she might not be. She might just be excited.
It depends on her personality, as well as on how exactly you responded to her signaling (e.g., did you lock eyes with her and trade smiles? She's probably not going to be as flustered when you approached if you did that).
You can think of signaling as a sort of casual display women engage in around men they THINK they might be interested in.
Once the guy approaches her, it shifts from "casual, harmless display that probably won't go anywhere" to "oh! it just got real..."
Sometimes that's exciting for her and she'll jump right in; sometimes it's rather unexpected and you need to help her settle into things.
So would any of this change if she's perceived to be a more experienced woman? She seemed very bold and not nervous at all. She was probably about ten years older and the type to hold her own in a business meeting. I was in a dark red hoodie and gym shorts on a pretty cold day, walking real slow. I think it was less "wow I can't miss out on a chance to meet my future husband" and more "give me that young cock right now".
But at the same time, she did not open. There was just a very quick sing-song hum sound. I would think a really forward woman might actually talk first. Maybe she strictly tests for men dominant enough to go for what they want and open her, but I would have thought it would be one fail and you're out in that case, not blatantly leave the checkout line for a second shot at me.
I should get her out of my head, but it really seemed like a "this will very rarely happen again" moment - so I was curious how you guys would handle it. Thanks for all the tips and insights.
Her experience (or your perception of it) doesn't matter.
How she interacts with you is what matters.
If you approach her and right away she jumps all over you and starts asking you things and flirting, you're still going to screen and qualify, but there's less other work for you to do and you can move right to leading much faster (after you screen/qualify enough though).
If you approach her and she's chatty but not showing signs of interest, you need to tease her a bit and get her treating it like a flirtation instead of a platonic chitchat. And so on.
You can make predictions before you approach... it'll help you refine your ability to accurately cold read women as you go:
You can learn to read women's signals far more reliably, and shorten your seduction learning curve, if you first learn a simple little trick: how to predict with accuracy. At the carnival, there is often a man (called, like all carnival workers, a 'carny') who will offer to guess your weight or...
www.girlschase.com
However, you should not be trying to map out the whole approach based on your perception of her, because perceptions are often wrong.
You will meet older chicks who look distinguished but aren't actually all that experienced with men. Maybe she's only ever had two very serious long-term relationships, the last one an engagement that just recently broke off, and has never really dated around with men yet, having busied herself with school, then career, and is only just now starting to explore men more. Maybe she's a lot younger and you might think she's innocent, but in fact she's been bed-hopping since she was 15 and she's a total man-hound who is totally ready for your approach (i.e., she sucks men into approaching her all the time).
You can adopt a basic skeleton like the one I put in the last post, but for best results you want to aim to become flexible enough to be able to respond to where the girl is on the approach (eager, reserved, chatty but platonic, etc.).
@Chase, I don't know how to deal with this, man... I know you don't like being treated like a celebrity, but you know the next generation of rockers after the Beatles? I don't think those guys just fan out over Paul McCartney in the same way as the average person, since he's the guy who literally showed them the way that massively impacted their lives and opened the door to their careers.
So if they get to interact with him and gain something directly, it's a pretty big honor and a little different than being a fainting superfan. I don't know your experience with guys in bootcamps and stuff, but that's just my perspective. Thank you for being available here.
It really helps to absorb the mindsets that you shared. I have very few reference points and therefore a lot of assumptions that may be completely off. So it's essential to remember these things you're explaining, and I will as I move forward. Plus I just got My Secret Garden and am about to break my brain.
Now I just need to start actually approaching! I've been amazed at myself from applying the concepts in your articles and am pretty grateful for having the foundations from the start. I've had a lot of neediness for a long time, so starting from a level up is a huge boon to getting early momentum and catching up as a late bloomer.
