Didn't get a date

[Samson84]

Maybe you guys have some feedback for me to analyze this situation where I tried to get alone time with someone but the invitation was declined.

I'm on vacation in the USA and I'm training at a well known and respected hardcore gym. There are many pro bodybuilders around here. I'm getting more into the sport myself, interested in finding out about the pro world, and would love to date someone with this physique.

I reached out to a woman on instagram who is one of the top pros. She lives and trains in this region and is about my age. I messaged her and asked if we could meet and I'd be interested to find out about her training and maybe we could talk over a coffee if she was available. I got a reply the next day saying hi and she couldn't meet me for a coffee but we could talk in the gym and she told me when she would be there.

Later in the gym I saw her while I was training and she was looking in my direction while talking to another woman. So I acknowledged her and carried on and shortly after I went up and confidently introduced myself and just a regular social interaction for a few minutes.

The other woman was bigging her up a little as she is a world title holder and asked if I wanted my photo taken with her. I didn't really react to that as I wasn't there to be a fanboy. So anyway we just said that we would chat in a while after we finished training.

Later she came up to me on her own when she had finished training and we talked for maybe 5 minutes. I was asking her about her sport and letting her talk. I tried not to gawp and keep my composure even though she is extremely beautiful and has an incredible body. I showed that I was really interested in what she was telling me and that I could relate to her dedication. I really am genuinely fascinated to hear about her story, even if she's not interested in a date. I think it was a good chat, she was smiling a lot, she complimented me, I think she may have touched me but it's kinda a blur. I guess I probably wasn't very funny and didn't make her laugh a lot but I woukd say I was probably warm and charming. Anyway I did the best I could for 5 minutes in a gym meeting someome for the first time.

So I said I would like to hear more and asked her about getting some sushi after training. She said "I really can't" and she looked kinda sorry aboit it .. either she wanted to but has a principle or bf that prevents her .. or else maybe she thought she might be letting me down, although I had been 100% take it or leave it and not at all needy. So I was thinking she is probably unavailable even tho I thought she was single.

How would you read this and the word "can't" when someone declines a date?

Could I have handled this better? Maybe I should have switched the conversation to my career, or leveraged some social proof, which I could have got if I had called upon it.

Should I do anything further or just let it go now?

At the very least, I am out there talking to women and challenging these beliefs that "someone that hot would never be interested in me", when I am actually a good catch, very successful, intelligent, fit and strong both in body and character. Still, a little success at some point would help!!

Samson

 

[Samson84]

Btw I am only in town for tonight and tomorrow, and tomorrow is NYE so not much chance of an evening date now during this trip.

 

[Regal Tiger]

For whatever reason she can't date you. Maybe she has a boyfriend that you don't know about, maybe she's already seeing a fuckbuddy that she wants more from. Maybe she's religious. Maybe, maybe, maybe.

Could be for whatever reason, doesn't actually matter the reason what matters is that she feels like she can't go on a date with you.

From how you talked about it, it seems like she was attracted to you so congratulations! If that's the case it just isn't good timing for her right now, sadly. That's a cruel part of seduction, right girl but wrong time. Kinda frustrating at times too.

As for how to handle it, sounds like you did everything right. Take it or leave it. Once she says she can't then all you can say is "That's a bummer, hope you have a good day!" and off ya strut.

If you were going to be around for a longer period of time you could even say instead something like "That's a bummer, if something changes make sure to let me know!"

That leaves the door open for her to come back to you if something changes (and sometimes it will if you have enough exposure with the same woman over and over again and you're also still an attractive man).

 

[Samson84]

Yeah that's what I thought, thanks for the second opinion. Maybe I should have got the photo with her for preselection with someone else lol.

I might just message her and say, it was good to meet you, I'd be interested to talk some more next time I'm in the area.

 

[Regal Tiger]

Yeah that's what I thought, thanks for the second opinion. Maybe I should have got the photo with her for preselection with someone else lol.

I might just message her and say, it was good to meet you, I'd be interested to talk some more next time I'm in the area.

No worries man! What we're here for.

But I wouldn't say that. If you're genuinely interested in hearing what she has to say then I would just say that you want to know more about how she got to where she is now. You can do that over text/instagram or whatever, doesn't have to be face to face.

If you say when you're in the area, with how your interaction went, it could come off as not very genuine. But since I wasn't there in the interaction I could be off base, but that's the general vibe that I'm picking up and think how it will come off from what I've read.

 

[Samson84]

I mean, it's kinda weird to think that I asked out someone who is a celeb for having a world class strong hot body. and maybe in other circumstances she might have agreed to a date with me. But honestly i had no enthusiasm for talking to girls in clubs who anyway will not understand or appreciate what I'm about. And I really wanted to challenge this subconscious idea that tells me i can't be successful with the kind of woman i find physically attractive.

 

[Samson84]

Yeah that's what I thought, thanks for the second opinion. Maybe I should have got the photo with her for preselection with someone else lol.

I might just message her and say, it was good to meet you, I'd be interested to talk some more next time I'm in the area.

No worries man! What we're here for.

But I wouldn't say that. If you're genuinely interested in hearing what she has to say then I would just say that you want to know more about how she got to where she is now. You can do that over text/instagram or whatever, doesn't have to be face to face.

If you say when you're in the area, with how your interaction went, it could come off as not very genuine. But since I wasn't there in the interaction I could be off base, but that's the general vibe that I'm picking up and think how it will come off from what I've read.

Yeah good feedback thank you.

 

[Regal Tiger]

I mean, it's kinda weird to think that I asked out someone who is a celeb for having a world class strong hot body. and maybe in other circumstances she might have agreed to a date with me.

It's a great feeling, right? From what I've read I think it was definitely a wrong timing moment. Even though it's a consolation prize, you can take pride in the fact that this high status girl was attracted to ya

Yeah good feedback thank you.

Happy to help

 

[Samson84]

So.... Our interaction had come to a natural end and I left it there. But a day later I see that she has been on my ibstagram profile, liked a bunch of my posts, and sent me a private message. She was saying, hope you enjoyed your vacation, and happy new year.

Hmm. She's not asking any questions but this does extend our interaction beyond the socially acceptable minimum. Maybe she's being friendly, maybe she's intrigued, ...?

At any rate I just said it was good to meet you and asked her what she was doing for new year's. I thought maybe she was wanting to connect again before I went home. If I get a reply I will wait a day and say something cocky and funny, like sorry you didnt get a photo with me to boost your instagram profile, and then say let me know if you change your mind about getting that coffee.

Thoughts?

 

[Regal Tiger]

So.... Our interaction had come to a natural end and I left it there. But a day later I see that she has been on my ibstagram profile, liked a bunch of my posts, and sent me a private message. She was saying, hope you enjoyed your vacation, and happy new year.

Hard to say exactly why she would do this, but either way it's an invitation to continue the interaction. So if you'd like to ask her about her story then this is a good opportunity to do so.

As for sex or anything in the future? Dunno... could happen, might not. But she does want to keep in contact for whatever reason (the reasons could be infinite).

Hmm. She's not asking any questions but this does extend our interaction beyond the socially acceptable minimum. Maybe she's being friendly, maybe she's intrigued, ...?

I'd try my best not to over analyze it. You'll likely never know the exact reason about why.

At any rate I just said it was good to meet you and asked her what she was doing for new year's. I thought maybe she was wanting to connect again before I went home. If I get a reply I will wait a day and say something cocky and funny, like sorry you didnt get a photo with me to boost your instagram profile, and then say let me know if you change your mind about getting that coffee.

Thoughts?

It could be that she wanted to connect before you got away, could be that she just wanted to stay in contact (which again, could be for a gazillion reasons).

It's definitely an invitation to continue talking though. As for anything more, it's certainly possible (and if your initial read about her was right then it's probable she's entertaining the idea).

I'd say keep talking, teasing, learning more about her, and just keep living your life and see where it takes you. You could try to push for a one-on-one meeting, but since she already said that she can't you have to be careful in how you invite her.

 

[Samson84]

Yep sounds good thanks.

In this kind of situation, i.e. one where you don't have proximity and text is your only possibility to go from no-date to yes-date, is it important to be not too available, e.g. waiting a day or so to reply each time? Or does that impede the flow too much? How do you do this on an IM platform where the other person knows when you have read their message and just haven't replied?

My goals here would be 1. to get a date, 2. if that doesn't happen to make a genuine friend, 3. if that friendship can serve as preselection / social proof in her circle that would be huge for getting a date with someone who is available.

Given 2 and 3 I don't want to be too much of a jerk bad boy but I'm very confortable being my unconventional and exciting self. Since she's in her 40s she may not be into bad boys too much anyway.

 

[Regal Tiger]

In this kind of situation, i.e. one where you don't have proximity and text is your only possibility to go from no-date to yes-date, is it important to be not too available, e.g. waiting a day or so to reply each time? Or does that impede the flow too much? How do you do this on an IM platform where the other person knows when you have read their message and just haven't replied?

That's important at any time, but you don't want to take it to the other extreme otherwise she'll just auto reject. My general advice is to mirror the girl. Also, Chase had a great article about when calling someone is better over text that has helped me in a similar situation just recently:
https://www.girlschase.com/content/tacti ... stead-text

Mix up the texts with a call every once in a while. I did a call once every 8-10 days or so and it's worked out for me (though I fully admit that I've only followed this advice the 1 time, but I'm 1 for 1 and that my situation is different than yours).

Even though you're limited to texts, you will still treat it the same as any other girl. Sometimes you'll text back right away and other times you'll wait half a day. Sometimes you'll get into a conversation that lasts for a few exchanges and other times you'll be impossible to reach.

This is one of those things ya kinda have to feel out, which is why my simple advice is to just mirror what she's doing. Works wonders.

 

[Samson84]

Cool, thanks Regal Tiger. Mirroring is what I used to do by default before learning any of this technical stuff. I thought I was so clever lol

I never heard of the mixing it up though.

In general the women I want to date are not your girl next door kind. So thinking of it as a numbers game, I am considering reaching out by private message to a few people I follow thru instagram, as though it were online dating.

What do you think about me sending someone I've never met a message like:


"Hey Name, I'm Name from England. I'm a powerlifter and a bodybuilder and I follow your journey on instagram. I hope it's not too forward but I just had to say you are totally gorgeous and have the most alluring eyes/smile/body. How would you like to go for drinks next time I'm in your area and find out what we have in common?"

I don't want to come off as a creepy stalker but I also want to be sufficiently strong and direct.

Another concern is that some of these women are in the same wider fitness community so I don't want to get a reputation as some kinda predator. I hope I wouldn't as I'm genuinely interested in finding connections and relationships.

If something like this could be tuned to have a non-zero success rate, that would be a great way for me to meet more of the women I'm interested in.

 

[Regal Tiger]

Cool, thanks Regal Tiger. Mirroring is what I used to do by default before learning any of this technical stuff. I thought I was so clever lol

I never heard of the mixing it up though.

You're welcome, bud!

And you're ahead of me lol. I had to have someone point it out to me, I used to be pretty helpless

In general the women I want to date are not your girl next door kind. So thinking of it as a numbers game, I am considering reaching out by private message to a few people I follow thru instagram, as though it were online dating.

What do you think about me sending someone I've never met a message like:

This is the only website I've ever found that goes over Instagram game, and it has some good advice (if you find others I'd love for you to share though!):
http://www.christiangreypua.com/

I think the eBook was like 20 dollars or something, I'd say it's worth that. I'm actually modeling my second Instagram account using some of the information in it.

"Hey Name, I'm Name from England. I'm a powerlifter and a bodybuilder and I follow your journey on instagram. I hope it's not too forward but I just had to say you are totally gorgeous and have the most alluring eyes/smile/body. How would you like to go for drinks next time I'm in your area and find out what we have in common?"

Instagram is a harder form of online game, so if it doesn't fit in online game then it doesn't fit in Instagram. That is a fairly direct message, and it would take some cojones to say in the real world. However, it doesn't take an ounce of courage to say online and women have become not only numb to it, but see it as basically spam. The women that I've talked to hate messages like these online.

I understand wanting to come off as strong and direct, because you are a man that wants to get shit done, but you have to think grace in this arena instead of strength.

I've only dipped my toes in it a little bit and I've found the easiest ways to start conversations are based off of one of their recent pictures or, even better, their stories. I've even made some cool friends in this way which means it works on people in general, not just women, depending on where you take the convo afterwards.

The angle I go for is that I want to be friendly and curious but without an agenda. Just a cool, sociable dude noticing someone else doing cool shit.

Then you can ask them out when it seems like you guys have a lot in common or have a good vibe and things are going well.


One caveat though; my experience with Instagram game is this:

I've gotten some nudes through it from a few women across the planet, but none from around me so meeting women using it would be rather difficult lol (no nearby followers).

It's also from my first Instagram account that is a landscape/adventure account that doesn't really crank to many womanly love motors. Plus, I'm more interested in using it to find friends to do fun stuff with and fuel some of my passions in life with it instead.

My second account is the one that I'm going to use to experiment with finding women and fulfilling a different side of my photographic and creative passions. But I haven't worked on it as of right now so I don't have any firsthand evidence/lays from it yet. But, I do know of other men that have this exact thing happen to them that are in similar genres as my second account. So I have second-hand proof through observing them and believe I can do it as well.


Lastly; make sure to have a bunch of followers. Instagram game is a form of status game. The more status you have the more attractive. So the more followers you have the more attractive you are. I have over 3K followers on my landscape account and it only took me about a month and a half to get, so it's not at all difficult to get a bunch.

How many you need depends on what your target market is. If your target market is a bunch of women with a few hundred followers then you won't need more than a thousand (though the more the better). If you are after women with thousands of followers then you're going to need to hit the 10K mark.

You need more status than your target market.

 

[BetaBoy]

I guess I probably wasn't very funny and didn't make her laugh a lot

thats problem right there, by not doing so you telegraphed that you were uncomfortable. You could have made fun of the workout and said you were kidding. Next time you see her, don’t bring up the past and joke around more.

 

[Samson84]

Woah dude, that right there is a lot of priceless thoughtful info! Keep me updated on your second account - what kind of photography are you into?

How did you get your 3K followers?

Thanks a bunch!

 

[Samson84]

I guess I probably wasn't very funny and didn't make her laugh a lot

thats problem right there, by not doing so you telegraphed that you were uncomfortable. You could have made fun of the workout and said you were kidding. Next time you see her, don’t bring up the past and joke around more.

I wasn't at all uncomfortable, I was very confident in the interaction. But considering she is a pro athlete at the top of her sport and I was in her gym where she is highly respected, if I had made fun of her workout I believe I would have just looked stupid and insecure. I did have good humour in it, a little bit jokey, but just not a real comedian. Maybe it's something for me to work on.

 

[Regal Tiger]

Woah dude, that right there is a lot of priceless thoughtful info! Keep me updated on your second account - what kind of photography are you into?

How did you get your 3K followers?

Thanks a bunch!

My first account is the nature/adventure/landscape account. The second is a portrait/boudoir account that I’ll sneak some light painting into. Those are what really get me going and I love to do

Follow-unfollow and tracking a lot of different things at the same time. The less you have to start the faster you grow. Just make sure not to do that to people you want to approach later, so you can keep track using spreadsheets of people to avoid unfollowing.

Welcome! Good luck

 

[BetaBoy]

I guess I probably wasn't very funny and didn't make her laugh a lot

thats problem right there, by not doing so you telegraphed that you were uncomfortable. You could have made fun of the workout and said you were kidding. Next time you see her, don’t bring up the past and joke around more.

I wasn't at all uncomfortable, I was very confident in the interaction. But considering she is a pro athlete at the top of her sport and I was in her gym where she is highly respected, if I had made fun of her workout I believe I would have just looked stupid and insecure. I did have good humour in it, a little bit jokey, but just not a real comedian. Maybe it's something for me to work on.

You would not have looked stupid, you worrying about how you would have looked is stupid however. People who often joke around with others are not insecure at all, the people who don’t are though. Here’s my suggestion, when I get super stressed and am not in a play around mood I often get a massage to relax me. That may be helpful, what you said about over doing it is true though. You want a happy medium with what ever you do in life. Don’t project your insecurities onto others, unless you want to be called out on it and will look bad because of it.

 

[Seppuku]

Hey Samson,

Happy new year to you!

I saw your post, and Regal Tiger answered it very well. I agree: she's not available for dating you, but she's inviting you to keep the interaction alive. You have to get the message though, and for now forget about asking her on a drink. She knows what you want. If she becomes available and interested, she will likely give you a hint. So for now, just focus on keeping this link alive, but texting her once in a while (try to be unpredictable in your texting pattern). Agreed again, try to match her intensity. The usual caveats apply, i.e. non needy, non chasey interaction.

There are some additional points I'd like to address.

I guess I probably wasn't very funny and didn't make her laugh a lot

I wouldn't worry much about this. That we have to make girls laugh to take them to bed is another one of these widespread misconceptions in dating that I had to unlearn. On these topics, make sure you are aware of the following GC articles:
Making girls laugh means nothing
Are you trying too hard?
Remember, sexy beats funny anytime. What matters more is to create tension, and to frame yourself as a sexual man. These two points will do much more to get you laid, than making her laugh... Well, unless you use sexual humor and sexual innuendos of course... which put you right back into sexual framing.

Next point, here I understand you are targeting your top kind of girls. I understand the rationale of challenging your mindset "I can't be successful with this kind of girls", and it is good to challenge this sort of thoughts.

But you will stand a much, much higher chance with top girls if you learn to be good with women, in general. Girls at the top are used to deal with lots and lots of men, are much more selective than the average girl, and usually go with guys who are really good. A man who is good with women communicates experience, and therefore preselection. It takes less than 30 minutes of interaction for a girl to determine if the guy is good with women or not. They know where he stands. That makes life much easier, and also gives you access to higher rank girls, when you are good.

The road for that is to gain experience, by interacting, dating, and taking to bed, dozens of women. And in order to expand the pool of "potential" girls, it is a good idea to lower the standards, and go for more average looking girls. This will give you the abundance mentality that you need to get rid of the scarcity mindset. Once you are good, you can think of tightening standards.

Seppuku
PS. When I was new in seduction, I got the contact details of a very beautiful Chinese girl (through online)... and had a lunch date with her. After that we kept the link going through text. Ten months later, I was starting to get experience (maybe 10-12 girls in the ten months). I recontacted her, setup a second date with her, brought her home ("cooking" date), and seduced her. Experience made the difference.