Do you just bail when approaching uninterested girl?

[Calibration]

If you stop smiling, wouldn't that make the entire vibe negative? The girl will see you stop smiling and she will mirror your emotion, causing a downward negative spiral? I usually will keep on smiling to show that I am not that easily affected by the girl, and trying to build a good vibe between us.

When I said stop smiling, I didn't mean to look angry or negative, just a neutral facial expression. I assumed you opened her with a smile, which is what I do and if she doesn't give you anything, gradually shift to a neutral facial expression.

Smiling is a double edged sword, it can neutralize tension when you open but if you smile a lot, it'll kill sexual tension too. So, just use it in moderation and when you switch to neutral facial expression, switch to something like this:

BTW, my comment was referring to how to continue conversation with a chic if she's not giving anything, assuming you went with a weak opener. But like most guys here, I wouldn't open her with "attractive" opener. I can't remember when was the last time I used a direct opener like beautiful, attractive, cute, gorgeous etc. I use it only on women who I feel she's truly one of those and I can't resist complimenting her on it. Since I'll be feeling that raw attraction for her, my body language will be in-tune with what I'm saying. So, it doesn't matter what I say and my body language will do it's job.

However, I recommend to refrain from using direct openers unless you're able to deliver it very well. It kills intrigue and takes your power away if you don't deliver it correctly. Also following up with a direct opener is very hard. What would you say after you've complimented on her attractiveness? Always think of what you're going to say after you've opened before you open her. It must be a supportive statement for your opener.

For ex: like what Will suggested above which are safe and good openers, even if you compliment on her bag or shoes etc, have a stack ready which is unique that follows your compliment. If you say, "nice bag" and she "thanks", conversation ends.

However if you say, "that bag reminds me of Julia Roberts from 'Pretty woman' movie. She's so charismatic in that movie. I love women who're easy-going and don't take life very seriously", you're making the conversation interesting, unique compliment, setting a frame, makes her feel special and you're providing value.
(Btw, Julia Roberts is a prostitute in Pretty woman movie. So, be careful when saying things like that but I guess you get the idea). I come up with ridiculous stacks, it doesn't matter as long as your facial expression and body language is positive, she'll know that you're saying it in a positive way.

 

[Will_V]

For ex: like what Will suggested above which are safe and good openers, even if you compliment on her bag or shoes etc, have a stack ready which is unique that follows your compliment. If you say, "nice bag" and she "thanks", conversation ends.

However if you say, "that bag reminds me of Julia Roberts from 'Pretty woman' movie. She's so charismatic in that movie. I love women who're easy-going and don't take life very seriously", you're making the conversation interesting, unique compliment, setting a frame, makes her feel special and you're providing value.
(Btw, Julia Roberts is a prostitute in Pretty woman movie. So, be careful when saying things like that but I guess you get the idea). I come up with ridiculous stacks, it doesn't matter as long as your facial expression and body language is positive, she'll know that you're saying it in a positive way.

While these kind of statements can work sometimes, I think it can be a bit much for the second thing you've ever said to someone. You're giving a lot of implicit compliments there - she's got a great bag, she's charismatic, she's easy going, she doesn't take life too seriously, and that you like all of that. Sure you didn't say it all about her, but it's still somewhat implicit. She might just be like 'ok!' because she doesn't really know what your point is while feeling like you're very invested.

Something I noticed Chase does in his examples is quickly shift to an introduction and name exchange after the opener. It's something I should probably do more often - it's very social and quickly establishes a small amount of rapport. I usually say 'so what are you up to today?' or make a comment on something about her after the opener, and then introduce myself a bit later on. But introducing very quickly is probably more solid.

My view is that it's best to focus on the present moment of time and space first and then use that as a stepping stone toward ideas, passions, personalities, etc.

 

[Calibration]

While these kind of statements can work sometimes, I think it can be a bit much for the second thing you've ever said to someone. You're giving a lot of implicit compliments there - she's got a great bag, she's charismatic, she's easy going, she doesn't take life too seriously, and that you like all of that. Sure you didn't say it all about her, but it's still somewhat implicit. She might just be like 'ok!' because she doesn't really know what your point is while feeling like you're very invested.

Isn't it qualifying more than complimenting?
I'm saying, it reminds me of Julia Roberts who is charismatic, easy going etc and I'm trying to put pressure on her to qualify?

If she doesn't qualify, I'll move on. It means she's not as cool as Julia Roberts or whatever I thought?

Pattern I've noticed is, if I stack/qualify there is a higher chance of hooking. I find it awkward if I introduce before she hooks and she isn't interested. I'm guessing, there is more to it than what you're saying. Perhaps your fundamentals are better or something and she doesn't care what you say?

Chase mentions in one of the article that he just says hi sometimes. I'm imagining his fundamentals are immaculate to just open with this.

 

[Will_V]

Isn't it qualifying more than complimenting?
I'm saying, it reminds me of Julia Roberts who is charismatic, easy going etc and I'm trying to put pressure on her to qualify?

The way it comes across to me is that she wouldn't feel any reason to qualify at that point, because you've come in, opened her and delivered a fairly detailed statement related to her while she still doesn't really know you and has only said a couple of words to you.

In the beginning of a seduction, I think one of the best ways to establish dominance is being minimalist with words while strong with body language. One of the things I don't like about a lot of youtube 'daygame' is the way guys go in hot and start delivering lots of cold reads and generally performative stuff while she's still wondering what's going on. Even if she gets swept up in the energy for a while I'm not sure it establishes any good dynamic.

A good seduction in my book starts off with a strong presence, calm but slightly aroused energy, and just good basic social connection with a hint of ambiguity. And then that ambiguity grows into something sexual as time goes on.

Pattern I've noticed is, if I stack/qualify there is a higher chance of hooking. I find it awkward if I introduce before she hooks and she isn't interested.

Does it translate to better results though? Maybe it's a difference of style but I try to be minimalist especially at the start. If I do end up talking a lot it's very much banter rather than stuff aimed at making her qualify.

I want her to become intrigued and locked in with me and then I will elicit more from her and start adding more lighthearted disqualifications and stuff like that to make her qualify to me.

Perhaps your fundamentals are better or something and she doesn't care what you say?

I definitely rely mainly on my fundamentals and body language, which I feel are the best parts of my game, particularly because I had to learn a lot of self control from having 'social anxiety' early on. I also have a very good intuition about people and find it relatively easy to read them. That means that I focus on using my presence and body language to make an impression, establishing a quick basic social connection, and then deep diving because that's where I enjoy things the most.

I'm not someone who believes there is only one way to game, the same way there are some guys who are more extroverted and energetic and others who are more calm and reflective, which translate to different styles of communication. There are universal principles though and one of the main ones is establishing more investment from her than you are giving asap. It's always the case though that in the beginning she doesn't care much about you so you cannot expect her to feel the need to qualify off the bat before you've given her something she wants more of or wants to explore further.

 

[MarkA]

Met similar cases long ago where the girl straight up reject me but I don't know how to handle it.


That day I was dressed up nicely to do some pickups with a friend. This girl was standing at the McDonalds kiosk machine ordering food. The following is the convo:

Me: Sitting in McDonalds waiting for friend. Saw a girl ordering food at the kiosk machine, so I walk up to her

Me: Hi. Just now when I was sitting there waiting for my friend, I saw you and I think you are kinda attractive, so I come and hi to you

Her: (Looking at me with an expressionless face) So?

Me: You having lunch with your friends here?

Her: I am with my mom (Looked back at the kiosk to continue order food)

Me: Sorry am I interrupting you ordering food?

Her: (Still looking at the kiosk ordering food) Yes, I don't feel like talking to stranger.

Me: Oh, do you get approached by guys before? (Trying to figure out her concern about guys approach her)

Her: No


After that, I just leave since it seems she is not interested. I think my fundamentals and my opener were not the issues, because after that I did a few more approaches and the girls were receptive. So I am guessing it must be conversation issue.

I am wondering how do you handle this kind of situation, or do you just leave when meeting uninterested girls?

How about instead of getting into a question train that just comes across as awkward you pace her feelings.

You - that's ok, sometimes I don't feel like talking to others either. When you feel better come over here and we can have a chat.

Will it work? No matter what you do your odds are low but make sure you don't act butt hurt.

 

[Teevster]

I see what you mean, when I said 'teasing' I did include ambiguity, with the 'tongue in cheek' as a form of softening it up, which looks like you don't do or don't emphasize? I guess the frame is more challenging than playful then?

I am by no means claiming you cannot make it work with the tongue in cheek approach. You totally can and I can totally see this working.

But since you guys were mentioning me and how I do things, I had to correct you guys and say that is not how I do/did it ("did" because I rarely do direct these days, but I had my phase). My frame is always more challenging than playful... as I am not a playful person - playfulness has never been part of my M.O. I am not a playful guy per se. Hence, why I don't use it.

Something I've found works well for me is to deliver the opener in a very offhand tone like it's not important, while conveying general excitement in my body language. That seems to do a good job of making her feel like it's not much as much of an investment on my part.

This is the way.

I'll definitely challenge girls a bit more during the interaction if I see that they are feeling that interest is too one sided, I like to say 'don't jump the gun' or something along those lines if she's getting too easy with my interest, and then put a little more pressure on her to qualify.

I also depends on how testy the girl is, and what setting you find yourself in. Usually, a venue with a bad man to female ratio, you will need to be more aloof. Ditto for girls which seems to have high bitchshield.

-Teevster

 

[Kvothe]

Didn't mean to misrepresent! But thanks for the clarifications!

 

[Teevster]

Didn't mean to misrepresent! But thanks for the clarifications!

No worries. I did not mind it.

-Teevster

 

[Teevster]

I can understand what Teevster is referring to as an element of ambiguity and challenge when using a direct opener.

That's something along the lines of what Swinggcat or even Todd V does. He has similar openers where if he shows some interest he doesn't give it all away completely and balances it with a bit of challenge for example by adding a qualifier to the opener

Yeah well.. obviously Those guys are old school and all about the "push and pull" thing. And so am I... and thing always worked out better that way.

In that theory I was inspired to create a straight opener but that indicates I'm not quite there yet and need to first evaluate what she's like to see if I end up convincing myself of my interest in her for example I usually say something like:

Hi. Nice style you seem like someone nice to meet although I don't know if it's just my impression of you.....

When I add the "Although" I let it be understood that I don't buy her at all and she must make more merits to get my Validation and get more interested in her. In line sets I use a similar opener with a high cup of good initial response and responsiveness.

Yeah typical oldschool "direct" game. It works.

You can replace "although" with... "however...", "that said... ", "but..." etc...

-Teevster

 

[vicknick]

Thanks guys for the advices!

To build rapport you have to pace her on what she's feeling, by saying what she's thinking and reframing it. For example if she says I don't feel like talking to strangers you could say 'Hey I know we just met but when you're feeling less grumpy you'll wish we'd gotten to know eachother a bit more' with a bit of a lighthearted smile, or something like that.

But isn't this convincing her to invest? I feel like if she is not compliant, convincing her to invest will push her away even more. Like when you are not interested in a product, the salesperson then say "I know you are not interested but this product has many features blah blah blah....".

 

[Kaida]

Thanks guys for the advices!


But isn't this convincing her to invest? I feel like if she is not compliant, convincing her to invest will push her away even more. Like when you are not interested in a product, the salesperson then say "I know you are not interested but this product has many features blah blah blah....".

I think Will_V’s idea is that you say it as a kind of last resort takeaway, while slowly turning away almost ready to leave (in a non-butthurt way) while giving her a chance to reengage you if she so chooses.

If that doesn’t work, then move on

 

[Will_V]

Thanks guys for the advices!


But isn't this convincing her to invest? I feel like if she is not compliant, convincing her to invest will push her away even more. Like when you are not interested in a product, the salesperson then say "I know you are not interested but this product has many features blah blah blah....".

There's more nuance to this than you are seeing.

There are many reasons why a girl might be uninvested. If she's uninvested because she's simply not engaged or doesn't like you, any attempt to 'convince' is in effect increasing attainability even more when she is already uninterested, which is obviously bad.

But if she's genuinely sad or having a bad time for whatever reason, or is reacting out of nervousness, she's probably feeling vulnerable and lacking control. Which means that being more attainable (while showing understanding of what she's experiencing) can make her relax and release her tension.

Social dynamics is not a simple bag of tricks where if she does X then you do Y, first you have to know why she's doing X in the first place, and calibrate to the reason behind it.

Something that is a very good skill to have in all kinds of social situations is to be able to intuit how secure the other person feels, regardless of whether they are responding positively or negatively. Some people respond assertively when they feel vulnerable, others appear frightened or even put on a friendly demeanor that is simply a cover for their unease. If you are just responding to the surface level reaction you'll end up with some very confusing situations that don't pan out as you'd expect. And when you do understand what's behind it and calibrate to it, you'll end up making the other person feel like you understand things that the typical person (who is reacting to reactions) is ignorant of.

I think Will_V’s idea is that you say it as a kind of last resort takeaway, while slowly turning away almost ready to leave (in a non-butthurt way) while giving her a chance to reengage you if she so chooses.

If that doesn’t work, then move on

It's not a last-resort thing, it's a calibration to circumstance. You should always be ready to leave non-butthurt if she's not able to open to the approach, but this is simply pacing her reality - she's nervous about meeting a stranger or feeling emotionally vulnerable, so you give her a way of thinking about it that takes her out of her immediate emotional response and makes her think about how over the long term it will be a positive thing.

 

[vicknick]

There are many reasons why a girl might be uninvested. If she's uninvested because she's simply not engaged or doesn't like you, any attempt to 'convince' is in effect increasing attainability even more when she is already uninterested, which is obviously bad.

Thanks!

I'm curious if the girl is uninterested, what will you do in this situation? Will you try to open her up, or will you just leave?

Some beautiful girls give an uninterested respond, like playing with their phone when talking or giving you only one word response. I feel that for this type of girls, there were many guys approached her before. So I was thinking how could I separated myself and be different.

 

[Kvothe]

Nightgame, go talk to some other girls in the venue and build social proof. If you follow @Teevster advice elsewhere on the site, you've body rocked and avoided being explicitly rejected, so you can re-approach after she's seen you talking with other cute girls. Maybe her mood, your mood, or the social proof will lead to a better result upon re-engagement.

 

[Will_V]

Thanks!

I'm curious if the girl is uninterested, what will you do in this situation? Will you try to open her up, or will you just leave?

Some beautiful girls give an uninterested respond, like playing with their phone when talking or giving you only one word response. I feel that for this type of girls, there were many guys approached her before. So I was thinking how could I separated myself and be different.

You should be focusing on improving the things that are under your control before worrying about the hypothetical scenario in which you do everything right and it still doesn't work.

There's no magic wand in seduction for fixing bad situations. Usually when you mess up or don't do enough, you simply lose that opportunity for good. That's the way life works at a fundamental level. That's why you focus on your fundamentals, so that you get a good amount of new, warm opportunities all the time, and work on your skills to maximize those opportunities.

If a girl is genuinely, flatly uninterested, I always think to myself that I failed to make even an average impression, which is already a huge blunder. It might be because I came in weakly or without intent, with poor positioning or body language or something like that. In that case I tend to focus on ramping up tension and pressure to get her reacting - for example by making fun of her reaction (in a lighthearted nonbutthurt way), using strong and steady eye contact when she glances at me, reaching out and tapping her as I say something. Anything that is mildly dominant but non-needy is good. She might not take it well and reject but it's better to be polarizing than stand there being part of her scenery.

Sometimes girls are very good at pretending they are uninterested, but their body gives them away if you are very attentive.

I suggest you focus though on the fundamental skills, as you've shown that while you're learning fast you are still having issues with quality of conversation, calibration, and (I suspect) body language. The good news is that as you improve these, the scenarios of her being uninterested will become very few and far between.