Does Girls chase have a structure like Mystery's M3 Model?

[PaulieFlyn10]

Hey guys, so I've been digging through the blog & forums. I'm loving it

However, i haven't seen any detailed (or any at all) structure of how to run day game (whether that's insta dates or future dates)

Something like the M3 Model by Mystery or Juggler method

I noticed @Teevster made a blog series on something like that but didn't get around to finishing the last part that ties it all together..

From what i read i think it's something like PRE -OPEN >>> OPEN >> HOOK>> QUALIFY >> SEXUALIZE >>> RAPPORT (Please correct me if I'm wrong)

Now I understand that models are flexible and not one size fits all

Still it would be great to know if there's a detailed main or general structure beginners can use to understand things

So I'm wondering if there's a blog or forumn post that lays out your style/structure of approach when it comes to daygame or the Seduction process in general?

@Chase @Teevster @Gunwitch @Skills @Glow @Karea Ricardus D.

 

[Chase]

@PaulieFlyn10,

Glad you're loving the material, man.

I don't have a completely codified method like M3. I think there are definitely some great advantages to structures like that; I've just never been much of a structure guy personally.

@Karea Ricardus D. follows the M3 structure, with his own stack built around it. @Glow might as well? The other guys you listed so far as I know do not follow a very specific structure, though @Teevster could probably formulate his own structure at this point if he wanted to, and @Gunwitch of course has Gunwitch Method.

Historically I have used the VAC attraction model (value-attainability-compliance), which I switched over to SAC (similarity-arousal-compliance), along with a general set of rules like "keep things moving forward", "move faster", "escalate whenever you see the opportunity to", "don't let things dawdle too long without changing something up", etc.

I have a few broken-out processes in a few places though:

• Here's a 10-step approach sequence
  
  
• Here's a codified day game open --> #-close sequence with an example
  
  
• In my book How to Make Girls Chase, near the end I have a chapter titled "Process" I have my 7-step going-out process from open to close, though it's more of a higher level process, not discrete interaction chunks like M3
  
  
• I also have a whole appendix on building processes with a sort of "Choose Your Own Adventure" process builder + a bunch of example quick pull processes in my old Fast Sex Construction Kit included with the Mastery Pick Up Package, which we don't really sell anymore (but I guess kinda do? Since I never officially took it off shelves... just removed all the links to where to buy it)
  
  
• And in One Date Lesson 3 I have a fairly detailed on-date process (which applies equally well to pickups once you're past the opener), which I will just post here because it's not a major part of the course, just a single page in the book / a couple minutes in the video:

The basic steps you must follow on every one date (any experience with a girl where the end goal is physical intimacy):

1. Test her interest level right away to see if you can skip steps. How aroused does she seem, is she being more combative or compliant, etc.

2. Begin with playful banter and light touches to build a dynamic, sexual vibe

3. Move her soon into the date – the first move (or venue change) should come within 10 minutes

4. If she is playful: continue to tease and banter with her while you escalate touch and get more investment from her. If she is reserved: move to deep diving while you sprinkle in playfulness and banter to keep things from getting too heavy, and continue to escalate touch and compliance.

5. Break the pattern: change from what you’ve been doing into doing something else, before the earlier part of the date gets stale. This can be anywhere from 20 minutes to 2 hours into whatever you were doing earlier (sitting and talking, playing at an arcade, going on a hike, shooting pool)... but you must change before the energy drops, or it’ll feel like you’re clueless or scared. At that point, her interest in you will begin to fade.

6. Take her home: at some point, usually following a high point, you must invite her home. You can do this by asking her to go watch movies, cook dinner together, or have a nightcap. Or you can even just tell her you want to relax and unwind together.

7. Make your move: the easiest way to do this is to kiss her within 10 minutes of having her back at your place.

So, not really as cut-and-dry as M3. But hopefully this helps.

The stuff on GC is compatible with the M3 model if you want to use it for that, too. I have known multiple highly skilled seducers who swore by the M3 model; they were all guys with very different styles... the only things they had in common were that they used M3 and got laid a lot.

So if you like M3, you can certainly still follow that, and just slap a GC skin on top of it, and still get plenty of use out of both.

Chase

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

@PaulieFlyn10,

Glad you're loving the material, man.

I don't have a completely codified method like M3. I think there are definitely some great advantages to structures like that; I've just never been much of a structure guy personally.

@Karea Ricardus D. follows the M3 structure, with his own stack built around it. @Glow might as well? The other guys you listed so far as I know do not follow a very specific structure, though @Teevster could probably formulate his own structure at this point if he wanted to, and @Gunwitch of course has Gunwitch Method.

Historically I have used the VAC attraction model (value-attainability-compliance), which I switched over to SAC (similarity-arousal-compliance), along with a general set of rules like "keep things moving forward", "move faster", "escalate whenever you see the opportunity to", "don't let things dawdle too long without changing something up", etc.

I have a few broken-out processes in a few places though:

• Here's a 10-step approach sequence
  
  
• Here's a codified day game open --> #-close sequence with an example
  
  
• In my book How to Make Girls Chase, near the end I have a chapter titled "Process" I have my 7-step going-out process from open to close, though it's more of a higher level process, not discrete interaction chunks like M3
  
  
• I also have a whole appendix on building processes with a sort of "Choose Your Own Adventure" process builder + a bunch of example quick pull processes in my old Fast Sex Construction Kit included with the Mastery Pick Up Package, which we don't really sell anymore (but I guess kinda do? Since I never officially took it off shelves... just removed all the links to where to buy it)
  
  
• And in One Date Lesson 3 I have a fairly detailed on-date process (which applies equally well to pickups once you're past the opener), which I will just post here because it's not a major part of the course, just a single page in the book / a couple minutes in the video:

So, not really as cut-and-dry as M3. But hopefully this helps.

The stuff on GC is compatible with the M3 model if you want to use it for that, too. I have known multiple highly skilled seducers who swore by the M3 model; they were all guys with very different styles... the only things they had in common were that they used M3 and got laid a lot.

So if you like M3, you can certainly still follow that, and just slap a GC skin on top of it, and still get plenty of use out of both.

Chase

Thanks a lot for the reply. Your blog is definitely the best I've seen in this space

I definitely see how GC can work well with M3 Model. I think it's a powerful combo when done right... and I'll check out the resources you mentioned

Is there a way to combine SAC + VAC? Like creating an overlap between them

 

[Chase]

Cheers Paulie.

Is there a way to combine SAC + VAC? Like creating an overlap between them

They are different models, but they're not exclusive to each other.

I find they're better for solving different types of problems. For example:

• VAC is great at figuring out "girl is acting platonic", "girl is being too nice", "girl is being super cold", "girl is being so rude", "girl keeps running away from me" issues
  
  
• SAC is great at figuring out "what is this girl looking for from me, exactly", "it feels like things have kind of stalled out; what will get it moving again?", "things are going well but I'm not sure what to do next; what should I do?" issues

IOW, use SAC to keep things moving in a more-or-less healthy (or healthy-ish) seduction. But if things aren't working at all, use VAC to troubleshoot why that is.

You could really use either model for either... but that's my preference: SAC for forward progression / recurring progression-based issues, VAC for figuring out major blockages / major recurring game-breaking issues.

One other perspective that might be helpful:

• Value-attainability-compliance extends to the overall value / accessibility of value of one person to another. So it governs interpersonal value and access to value between people. If that is lacking, it is difficult for a romance to form
  
  
• Similarity-arousal-compliance covers the romantic / sexual progression in a courtship. It goes beyond VAC in focusing specifically on courtship elements, but it relies to a certain extent on VAC already being covered (i.e., the guy already has value, and is attainable without being too attainable)

Chase

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

@Skills @Teevster @Karea Ricardus D.

Hey, Do you happen to have blog or forum posts that detail your structure or model?

Would really appreciate it

 

[Skills]

@Skills @Teevster @Karea Ricardus D.

Hey, Do you happen to have blog or forum posts that detail your structure or model?

Would really appreciate it

A lot if the guys you mentioned and mystery more night gamers but it should not matter...
Pre opening.- hoovering/ forcing approach invites or doing anything pre opening to get notice and get reaction is not always needed.
Opening.- this includes at times false time constraint and sometimes milking the intro.

Hooking.- point of interaction when she is willing to listen and no telling you to fuck off.

Here it gets complex i mix it all: compliance, micro escalations, getting investment, indirect sex talk.

Isolation and close

Op what is the goal look at different well written lr and break dowm structure...mm structure is solid for most interactions. You gave me a great idea on a dude in nextasf that explained why all interactions follow mm i will repost here...

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

A lot if the guys you mentioned and mystery more night gamers but it should not matter...
Pre opening.- hoovering/ forcing approach invites or doing anything pre opening to get notice and get reaction is not always needed.
Opening.- this includes at times false time constraint and sometimes milking the intro.

Hooking.- point of interaction when she is willing to listen and no telling you to fuck off.

Here it gets complex i mix it all: compliance, micro escalations, getting investment, indirect sex talk.

Isolation and close

Op what is the goal look at different well written lr and break dowm structure...mm structure is solid for most interactions. You gave me a great idea on a dude in nextasf that explained why all interactions follow mm i will repost here...

Hey Skills, Thanks for the feedback...

Yeah i tagged you guys because going through the forums, your posts have been really insightful

Regarding the goal, I'm not much of a night gamer. And clubs aren't really my thing. So my goal is basically fast seductions during the day like instadates then from that to lay/close

OR setting up a date later on if an instadate isn't possible and closing on the first date

Sure I'd like to see the nextasf post

Thanks

 

[Skills]

Hey Skills, Thanks for the feedback...

Yeah i tagged you guys because going through the forums, your posts have been really insightful

Regarding the goal, I'm not much of a night gamer. And clubs aren't really my thing. So my goal is basically fast seductions during the day like instadates then from that to lay/close

OR setting up a date later on if an instadate isn't possible and closing on the first date

Sure I'd like to see the nextasf post

Thanks

I just put it here we go in detail about mm, and the structure so i just added it here :

Mystery Method - Revisited

Dislcaimer By Teevster: I moved these posts from Karea's thread "Is game harder than it was 10 years ago?". I moved these posts because they covered a whole different subject and those great posts by Karea shouldn't be lost in the sea of posts (was a very active thread). I also felt this is a...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

@Karea Ricardus D. follows the M3 structure, with his own stack built around it.

Not quite, but close. There's been a pretty interesting evolution when it comes to these structures:

1. FMAC: Mystery's structure started out with FMAC in the 90s, that's find meet attract close.

• Find means exploring all venues of the city, figuring out which are best for pickup, on what days, what times, etc.
• Meet is an opener, he used a story for this, no FTC yet, no body rocking, at least not codified yet
• Attract was interesting routines (no attraction switches codified yet) plus negs
• Close was kiss and number, no time bridges yet, no qualification, limited comfort

2. M3: I believe it was Lovedrop who really codified the M3 as we know it today. Dude's got a brain the size of Wisconsin, as far as I know he reverse engineered much of what Mystery was doing unconsciously.

3. Annihilation Method: Style's method, which was very similar to MM as him and Mystery were wings. AM was explained differently though, and in a way that was easier to understand. Mystery's game is insanely complex with his micro-calibration, pawning, merging group sets etc., makes it a bit hard to follow at first.

4. Dallas Crew: Sinn, ElTopo and my mentor CJ took Mystery Method, mastered it at a very high level and then sexualized it. My gameplan is mostly based on the way CJ structured it:

• Casual opener if situation allows (otherwise indirect, unless walking set then compliance opener/direct)
• Two exchanges of small talk to make it all look natural
• Framing interlaced with qualification (with ever-increasing levels of compliance)
• Time bridge
• Comfort interlaced with sexuality (until the pull).

This does still follow the M3 broadly as most human mating does. You will always open, make her like you, show her you like her, build comfort together and then seduce and escalate. The venue loops of M3 will also apply almost always no matter what method is used.

I got high once this year and realized the whole thing can be structured as a sequence of compliance loops where every single block of the stack builds compliance. That should really kick things to the next level... I'll write more about this if I can get it to work right in field.

-Karea.

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

Not quite, but close. There's been a pretty interesting evolution when it comes to these structures:

1. FMAC: Mystery's structure started out with FMAC in the 90s, that's find meet attract close.

• Find means exploring all venues of the city, figuring out which are best for pickup, on what days, what times, etc.
• Meet is an opener, he used a story for this, no FTC yet, no body rocking, at least not codified yet
• Attract was interesting routines (no attraction switches codified yet) plus negs
• Close was kiss and number, no time bridges yet, no qualification, limited comfort

2. M3: I believe it was Lovedrop who really codified the M3 as we know it today. Dude's got a brain the size of Wisconsin, as far as I know he reverse engineered much of what Mystery was doing unconsciously.

3. Annihilation Method: Style's method, which was very similar to MM as him and Mystery were wings. AM was explained differently though, and in a way that was easier to understand. Mystery's game is insanely complex with his micro-calibration, pawning, merging group sets etc., makes it a bit hard to follow at first.

4. Dallas Crew: Sinn, ElTopo and my mentor CJ took Mystery Method, mastered it at a very high level and then sexualized it. My gameplan is mostly based on the way CJ structured it:

• Casual opener if situation allows (otherwise indirect, unless walking set then compliance opener/direct)
• Two exchanges of small talk to make it all look natural
• Framing interlaced with qualification (with ever-increasing levels of compliance)
• Time bridge
• Comfort interlaced with sexuality (until the pull).

This does still follow the M3 broadly as most human mating does. You will always open, make her like you, show her you like her, build comfort together and then seduce and escalate. The venue loops of M3 will also apply almost always no matter what method is used.

I got high once this year and realized the whole thing can be structured as a sequence of compliance loops where every single block of the stack builds compliance. That should really kick things to the next level... I'll write more about this if I can get it to work right in field.

-Karea.

Thanks a lot for the breakdown. I really like the sexualization angle you guys incorporated. Makes it more fun

Definitely stoked to see you write more on structures & sequence

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

I just put it here we go in detail about mm, and the structure so i just added it here :

Mystery Method - Revisited

Dislcaimer By Teevster: I moved these posts from Karea's thread "Is game harder than it was 10 years ago?". I moved these posts because they covered a whole different subject and those great posts by Karea shouldn't be lost in the sea of posts (was a very active thread). I also felt this is a...

www.skilledseducer.com

Thanks man. I appreciate

I just put it here we go in detail about mm, and the structure so i just added it here :

Mystery Method - Revisited

Dislcaimer By Teevster: I moved these posts from Karea's thread "Is game harder than it was 10 years ago?". I moved these posts because they covered a whole different subject and those great posts by Karea shouldn't be lost in the sea of posts (was a very active thread). I also felt this is a...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[switchblade]

I got high once this year and realized the whole thing can be structured as a sequence of compliance loops

Not sure if this is the same as what you are talking about or not, but I spoke too a guy on reddit who said he can get any girl he wants using his method which he claimed to be mostly from jmulv I think (although i can't seem to find any similarity between jmulv's infields and what the guy explains)

But he said it was 100% compliant based. His 'method' in a nutshell is that he says he can get any girl from open to sex (he doesn't believe in rejection), by simply asking for compliance, and 'baby-stepping' each interaction from small compliance requests (like 'come outside with me for a second') all the way to sex. He said he can literally make girls eat dirt using this method lol

He said if at any point she rejects a compliance request, you simply IOD her (such as a neg or telling her she's boring etc) and then telling a DHV story, and then trying for that same compliance again

I can't seem to get anything like the results he claims though. I've tried this and i've not had success with it yet. What happens to me is that unless she happens to be a girl who is clearly attracted more or less at the open, there is a point where she fails to comply (typically anything remotely 'man to woman' such as isolation or increasing touch or whatever where maybe she also tells me i'm not her type and she doesn't want to give me the wrong impression). I don't panic and follow the method and tease her about something (IOD) and then try to DHV, and then try again for comliance, but the result is the same, except now she is also likely to eject

I'm constantly playing with different 'methods' and i'm back to trying this one at the moment. If there happens to be someone here who uses this method maybe you could help me out with different IOD's and DHV's as maybe that's where it's going wrong.

 

[ulrich]

He said if at any point she rejects a compliance request, you simply IOD her (such as a neg or telling her she's boring etc) and then telling a DHV story, and then trying for that same compliance again

I can't seem to get anything like the results he claims though. I've tried this and i've not had success with it yet.

Might be an over-simplification.

If the girl is not complying because your attainability is low, a DHV story is only going to dig your grave deeper.

Maybe the guy who told you this does something else that he doesn’t realize or forgot to explain.

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

he says he can get any girl from open to sex (he doesn't believe in rejection)

Sounds like an exaggeration, but meet him and go out together and see. I believe in theory it should be possible to get every girl that's available. Mystery has done 5 for 5 many times... CJ has done 4 for 3 many times (3 opens 4 lays by getting a friend of his target later, etc.)... my best was 3 for 7. But, 100 for 100 I doubt if only because of wild cards, married girls, very religious girls, etc. The general idea you describe sounds similar to what I had in mind though. I don't want to KJ about it but at some point I'll test it more and write about results.

 

[Chase]

@switchblade,

Pure compliance game + IODs can be very powerful, but it's "dark side" tech.

It's also very difficult to use for any guy without exceptional frame control and verbals. Any guy who tells you this is his game and that it works consistently for him is also telling you he has a silver tongue, great frame control, and very good calibration.

As you have seen, the IODs won't work without proper calibration. They are not used just as punishment; they are also used to set a specific frame that makes future compliance a lot more likely, above and beyond the reward/punishment purpose they fulfill.

Most less experienced guys who figure the nuances of this approach out typically become very excited to discover their pull rate leaps up dramatically, but then they soon realize all these girls they are pulling put up mountains of LMR back at home. Then they get depressed because they are pulling lots of girls but not closing any of them.

There are ways around this game style's closing problems, too... but the ways around it are also dark side tech.

So yes, it's doable; but it's no magic pill -- guys who aren't already very skilled in other ways won't pull this off consistently (at best they will pull a lot of girls home who then leave).

Chase

 

[switchblade]

thanks guys.
I'm gonna carry on trying that method (since if he can bang like 3 models at a time then surely i can get just one dream girl each week!) alongside another slightly different model that i'm currently experimenting with on the advice of a different expert (see my latest LR for anyone intertested in that)

Unfortunately I can't see him in action as he's in a different country. I'm also not able to find any infields of anyone successfully doing what he claims (banging girls who tell him they are not interesting by using this simple IOD to DHV system) which is annoying as it would help. It's strange he mentions jmulv because jmulv's infeilds are nothing like that! (he gets his fair share of rejections that he can't seem to turn around at all, and his style is also fairly direct and i never see him actually apply what i'm talking about)

Since Karea seems to use someithing similar, i might get him to a little 'roleplay' with me as the girl who doesn't want to comply, so that i can get a better of idea of what IOD's and DHV's to use

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

banging girls who tell him they are not interested by using this simple IOD to DHV system

In my experience the best way to deal with IODs on the open is to stay totally unaffected and calm and just keep talking. I don't think you need to really get all that fancy early on... the first minute or two it's usually just her auto pilot, and she's often just confused. So just staying in set, staying calm and continuing the conversation often does the trick.

Since Karea seems to use someithing similar, i might get him to a little 'roleplay' with me as the girl

Hey. What? Hey!! Stop! I didn't agree to that! You're a really nice guy but... I just don't feel that way about you... can't we just be friends Blade?