Don't Get Distracted in Groups

[Chase]

A few years back, I was out with a friend who lost a girl because he did what I call "breaking circle." I'm putting this in beginners, but even guys who are reasonably advanced can do this. I still did this for a long time before I finally figured out how destructive it was.

There's a blog article up on the main site on this here:

Breaking Circle

Essentially, when you're talking to women in group situations, never be the first to acknowledge someone else. Sometimes friends of hers, or friends of yours will, try to interrupt; and that's fine, if she acknowledges them, you can acknowledge them too. But don't be the first to do so. Doing so is bowing to social pressure, and letting someone decide for you whom you're going to talk to. You want the message communicated though to be, "Hey, I'm here to talk to this girl, so long as she wants to talk to me."

If she breaks circle, it's fine; she's the one bowing to social pressure, not you. You still look strong; you were in a conversation, and she's the one who let someone else pull her out of it. And at that point, you can engage with other people (though try to get back to her as soon as is smoothly and naturally possible; you're there to talk to her, not to be a social butterfly).

Just remember that whatever interaction you're in, never be the one to break circle first, unless you want that interaction to end.

Chase

 

[AFCnoob]

Perhaps this is not the place for it, but I just have to share some thoughts on this: I just have to say--this was a real revelation for me. When I started with all this, I read about "breaking circle" early on and focused on it quite early as well. I was, however, extremely surprised at how hard it is to do (or not do)! My natural response in a public place is to immediately turn and engage/address anyone who tries to get my attention (perhaps a result of working as a sales clerk/teacher) and it has proven extremely hard to suppress this urge.

Even after getting over this somewhat,I have also noticed that there seem to be different categories of people who attempt to break my circle, or insert themselves into my conversation:

(1) friends who want to talk
(2) random people who want to "compliment" me
(3) jealous friends or other males who are actively trying to interrupt me

Friends: I will be there talking to a girl, and a friend will walk up and casually start a conversation, just as they would if I were alone. They might have a joke to tell, some inane question to ask, or some pithy comment, but they seem completely oblivious to the fact that I'm actively talking to some girl. I've even had a good friend who was actually winging for me at the time do this. I've read "Breaking Circle", but I've never actually been able to work up the nerve to say "Yeah, cool--hey man [X] and I are talking here so...", because I feel like it would seem as though I was making way too much out of (what is ostensibly supposed to be) a simple conversation. [advice?]

The Complimenters: They may be acquaintances or people who know me somehow, or they may actually be just random dudes who (for some crazy reason) feel the need to come over and nod or say something like "way to go man" or "good luck" or something of the like. To their credit, some of them at least have the social grace to wait until the girl has gone to the bathroom or something, but not always. This is the absolute last thing I want anyone to do when I'm talking with a girl. To me, it's the equivalent of someone saying "So, you two are gonna have sex later, huh?"--I strictly ignore (and secretly hate) these people, but I still feel like an idiot, and wonder how I'm coming off to the girl observing this. [advice?]

The Jealous: I had a girl's jealous/drunk friend physically shove herself between me and the girl I was talking to on the dance floor. Repeatedly. I know I have to befriend the prospective girl's friends, or at the very least, be civil, but I had no idea what to do in this situation, and just tried to remain focused on the girl. I've also had male associates of girls I've been talking to actively try to disrupt the conversation. They were never bold enough to try to AMoG me, but instead tried to drag me into irrelevant conversations or silly challenges or games. I gave them minimal attention, but again was a bit worried of offending the girl I was trying to talk to, or that I was coming off as weak in the face of the other dude's avalanche of nonsense. This type is especially annoying, since they tend to continue to try to insert themselves, even after several signals from myself (and even the girl in question) that their presence is not wanted.[advice?]

I've gotten much better with not (ever) breaking circle, but I have yet to figure out how to do it smoothly, or deal with active circle disruption. I also have no idea what to do when I absolutely must break circle (a friend was in an altercation). Do I just have to give up the interaction, or what?

 

[trashKENNUT]

Hi, (AFCnoob)

the categories are spot on.

yeap, it's crazy some of the compliments that even your friends can give, will put you in such an unexpected role.

 

[Chase]

Hey fellas,

Good questions here AFCnoob - seems Zac's got the same ones. My thoughts:

Friends: I will be there talking to a girl, and a friend will walk up and casually start a conversation, just as they would if I were alone. They might have a joke to tell, some inane question to ask, or some pithy comment, but they seem completely oblivious to the fact that I'm actively talking to some girl. I've even had a good friend who was actually winging for me at the time do this. I've read "Breaking Circle", but I've never actually been able to work up the nerve to say "Yeah, cool--hey man [X] and I are talking here so...", because I feel like it would seem as though I was making way too much out of (what is ostensibly supposed to be) a simple conversation. [advice?]

Essentially, what's happening here is you're fearing pissing off / upsetting your friends MORE than you're fearing losing the girl... which either means you're improperly reading the situation (e.g., assuming the girl will be more forgiving than she will, or that your friends less forgiving than they will), OR you've got really emotional / possessive friends who are more interested in monopolizing your time than they are in you getting laid.

If it's the former, you might just need to lose enough girls that it pisses you off and you say, "You know what? I'm not letting my friends interrupt my game anymore, and if they're socially graceless enough to try, they'll just have to feel like fools for making that mistake and getting ignored, same as anyone else, because they're not going to learn any other way." If it's the latter... well, you probably need cooler friends!

The Complimenters: They may be acquaintances or people who know me somehow, or they may actually be just random dudes who (for some crazy reason) feel the need to come over and nod or say something like "way to go man" or "good luck" or something of the like. To their credit, some of them at least have the social grace to wait until the girl has gone to the bathroom or something, but not always. This is the absolute last thing I want anyone to do when I'm talking with a girl. To me, it's the equivalent of someone saying "So, you two are gonna have sex later, huh?"--I strictly ignore (and secretly hate) these people, but I still feel like an idiot, and wonder how I'm coming off to the girl observing this. [advice?]

For these, you essentially want to throw on the skeptical look, so that your face is saying, "Uh, are you kidding me?" You can then make some exaggerated gesture to the girl, like clearing your throat with an *ahem*, and continuing on with an, "Anyway..." or, "As I was saying..."

Or, you can always remark about the guy after he leaves, "One of my many fans," or something like that, that makes light of the situation, then continue on with your conversation.

(then give the guy a stern talking-to when you catch him alone later!)

The Jealous: I had a girl's jealous/drunk friend physically shove herself between me and the girl I was talking to on the dance floor. Repeatedly. I know I have to befriend the prospective girl's friends, or at the very least, be civil, but I had no idea what to do in this situation, and just tried to remain focused on the girl. I've also had male associates of girls I've been talking to actively try to disrupt the conversation. They were never bold enough to try to AMoG me, but instead tried to drag me into irrelevant conversations or silly challenges or games. I gave them minimal attention, but again was a bit worried of offending the girl I was trying to talk to, or that I was coming off as weak in the face of the other dude's avalanche of nonsense. This type is especially annoying, since they tend to continue to try to insert themselves, even after several signals from myself (and even the girl in question) that their presence is not wanted.[advice?]

That's just immature of them. Wait a moment once they're gone - just long enough that they won't feel it's DIRECTLY in reaction to their actions (and get upset), and then move your girl somewhere more private ("Hey, let's go sit somewhere a little less crowded"). If she was as annoyed at the interruption as you were, she'll readily assent.

I also have no idea what to do when I absolutely must break circle (a friend was in an altercation). Do I just have to give up the interaction, or what?

If a friend's in a fight, you can always just say, "Hey, you know what, usually I never just up and leave a conversation with someone as cool as you are, but I've got to go intervene and help my friend. Can we trade digits real quick and I'll connect with you later?" Then grab her number and get out of there and go help your buddy (and then tell him to knock it off and stop doing that, and focus on getting girls instead of getting punched in the head).

Cheers,
Chase

 

[AFCnoob]

Solid. Gold. These are exactly the kind of suggestions I need, and the main reason I spend so much time here. Your suggestions fit right in with my personality, and they are obviously way more socially refined than what I have been doing (or not doing). Thank you, Chase.

As a side comment, I read the post about the skeptical/bored looks for dealing with girls who are ball busting too much, or leading the conversation into boring threads. I was simply *amazed* at how well it worked.

 

[Eric]

Solid. Gold. These are exactly the kind of suggestions I need, and the main reason I spend so much time here. Your suggestions fit right in with my personality, and they are obviously way more socially refined than what I have been doing (or not doing). Thank you, Chase.

As a side comment, I read the post about the skeptical/bored looks for dealing with girls who are ball busting too much, or leading the conversation into boring threads. I was simply *amazed* at how well it worked.

Hey, to elaborate more on the previous categories.. Chase seemed go for more of the granularities of the situation, but attention might be more worthwhile to the whole of the picture. I don't ever seem to get these kinds of problems, and it may have to do with respect. I remember reading ramblings of a short asian PUA (Asian Playboy? I don't remember).. While I don't like pua terms much, he goes into how he get's AMOGed a lot more often due to being short and asian. He'll routinely have guys come up to him and be asshats, and he said this is largely due to people sizing him up to being an average joe. Maybe work on your fundamentals/posture, and dominance? It's quite obvious to someone observing when a male is not being as dominant as he could be when speaking with a woman.

I myself used to get labeled with negative stuff (cocky, arrogant), or not having women taking me seriously (they would make bitchy comments). They would do this to test my character, and I believe it was because they hadn't quite sized me up yet. I fixed the previous by talking less about myself, and I fixed the later by dropping my effort and raising my rewards (For example, I get compliance using my eyes instead of words now). Also now when I get labeled it's more positive (Mr. Fox).

 

[Chase]

Hey, to elaborate more on the previous categories.. Chase seemed go for more of the granularities of the situation, but attention might be more worthwhile to the whole of the picture. I don't ever seem to get these kinds of problems, and it may have to do with respect. I remember reading ramblings of a short asian PUA (Asian Playboy? I don't remember).. While I don't like pua terms much, he goes into how he get's AMOGed a lot more often due to being short and asian. He'll routinely have guys come up to him and be asshats, and he said this is largely due to people sizing him up to being an average joe. Maybe work on your fundamentals/posture, and dominance? It's quite obvious to someone observing when a male is not being as dominant as he could be when speaking with a woman.

I myself used to get labeled with negative stuff (cocky, arrogant), or not having women taking me seriously (they would make bitchy comments). They would do this to test my character, and I believe it was because they hadn't quite sized me up yet. I fixed the previous by talking less about myself, and I fixed the later by dropping my effort and raising my rewards (For example, I get compliance using my eyes instead of words now). Also now when I get labeled it's more positive (Mr. Fox).

Great points, omgosh. I'm talking problem-solving; you're talking treating it at the root. Spot on.

Chase

 

[AFCnoob]

@ omgosh: Thanks for the insight. I'm still definitely putting out a bit of a "tryhard" vibe there, and other guys may be picking up on it. I've gotten much better--I've never had guys moving out of my way/apologizing for interrupting or inconveniencing me before, but I guess the lingering occasional asshattery is a manifestation of that underlying lack of total confidence there.

This leads me into an interesting personal conflict I've been having as well: I seem to be veering off of "relaxed and confident" into "cold and unapproachable" territory. I have a slight downturn to my mouth, eyebrows that naturally "frown" a bit, and rather stark cheekbones, so I my neutral look can actually seem a bit cold/intimidating/unapproachable. I know this is a problem because even friends will sometimes tap me on the shoulder and ask "what's wrong?" or "what are you angry about?" when I'm feeling 100% neutral.

This is great for keeping guys from messing/starting with me, but it also seems to make me completely unapproachable to women. If I initiate eye contact like this, they seem more scared/intimidated than anything else, and I worry that softening my look/smiling immediately to reassure her will come across as supplication or even worse--fake. Again, perhaps simply working on my overall presence will help with this, but suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Eric]

@ omgosh: Thanks for the insight. I'm still definitely putting out a bit of a "tryhard" vibe there, and other guys may be picking up on it. I've gotten much better--I've never had guys moving out of my way/apologizing for interrupting or inconveniencing me before, but I guess the lingering occasional asshattery is a manifestation of that underlying lack of total confidence there.

This leads me into an interesting personal conflict I've been having as well: I seem to be veering off of "relaxed and confident" into "cold and unapproachable" territory. I have a slight downturn to my mouth, eyebrows that naturally "frown" a bit, and rather stark cheekbones, so I my neutral look can actually seem a bit cold/intimidating/unapproachable. I know this is a problem because even friends will sometimes tap me on the shoulder and ask "what's wrong?" or "what are you angry about?" when I'm feeling 100% neutral.

This is great for keeping guys from messing/starting with me, but it also seems to make me completely unapproachable to women. If I initiate eye contact like this, they seem more scared/intimidated than anything else, and I worry that softening my look/smiling immediately to reassure her will come across as supplication or even worse--fake. Again, perhaps simply working on my overall presence will help with this, but suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

No problem.

As for state, focus not on lowering the level of energy you output, but rather what kind of energy and the quality. If you put out no energy, you are cold. If you put out a lot of energy, you are hot. Focus on being hot and sexy, not comfortable or worse.. cold..

Likewise, you can be putting out a lot of bad energy, like an aloof party girl. It's not productive for romance.

 

[AFCnoob]

Crystal clear. My energy levels tend to be quite low, or drop off precipitously, especially when I'm not talking with anyone. I'll be paying equal attention to my energy levels and outward appearance from now on, excellent advice!

 

[Eric]

Crystal clear. My energy levels tend to be quite low, or drop off precipitously, especially when I'm not talking with anyone. I'll be paying equal attention to my energy levels and outward appearance from now on, excellent advice!

This made me think of another point.. When my energy levels are low, I still can have a sexual vibe. It's less of it yes, but I still can come off like that. There are a lot of times I'm too lazy to deep dive or be a conversationalist, but I can still get what I want. I just focus on using that little energy towards my sexual vibe, and then just start putting myself on autopilot. Like when I'm having an exchange with an employee working a cashier, I'll expend the same amount of energy as anyone else.

"How are you today..?"
"Good, you?"
*blah blah blah*

The difference is the way I channel it. I let my eyelids drop a bit, I let my speech slow down. I introduce longer pauses, I make the person wait for my word. I maintain eye contact, I force social pressure and sexual tension. I command, I get compliance. It was actually so bad the other day with my physical therapist that she was speaking to me and I was on such deep autopilot I honestly did not know what we were talking about, I was incredibly turned on though. I think we were talking about scheduling appointments..

 

[AFCnoob]

That's...some pretty advanced stuff. I hope I get there someday. For now, I'll file it away for future pondering.

 

[kota748]

The difference is the way I channel it. I let my eyelids drop a bit, I let my speech slow down. I introduce longer pauses, I make the person wait for my word. I maintain eye contact, I force social pressure and sexual tension. I command, I get compliance. It was actually so bad the other day with my physical therapist that she was speaking to me and I was on such deep autopilot I honestly did not know what we were talking about, I was incredibly turned on though. I think we were talking about scheduling appointments..

Wow, the insights here are incredible. All the things you said, just these behavioral changes seem so simple, but I can see it working. Is there a certain guide to doing just that? How to make normal conversation or "autopilot" conversation be able to turn on a girl?
-Kota

 

[Eric]

The difference is the way I channel it. I let my eyelids drop a bit, I let my speech slow down. I introduce longer pauses, I make the person wait for my word. I maintain eye contact, I force social pressure and sexual tension. I command, I get compliance. It was actually so bad the other day with my physical therapist that she was speaking to me and I was on such deep autopilot I honestly did not know what we were talking about, I was incredibly turned on though. I think we were talking about scheduling appointments..

Wow, the insights here are incredible. All the things you said, just these behavioral changes seem so simple, but I can see it working. Is there a certain guide to doing just that? How to make normal conversation or "autopilot" conversation be able to turn on a girl?
-Kota

Well to be honest, it seems to be the end result of what happens when you combine edge, sexual tension, dominance (compliance isn't necessary all the time), and gracefulness. Chase has been putting up a lot of articles on these lately, but I've actually been working on this and it's basically what Ricardus went into with his state control articles. His was more of a conceptual look at it and Chase's recent articles were discussing the parts of the sum.

I can look into writing up a guide for it, and I've been wanting to. I'm not a writer though..

 

[Rationalis]

What really pisses me off is when I'm talking to a girl and one of my friends or one of her friends is trying to distract me by interjecting into the conversation. If it's one of my friends, then I feel like punching him in the face right then and there. I usually have laser-focus when it comes to conversation with a girl and then the entire world fades from view. It's harder when you have interjecting parties.

Thanks for another great insight, Chase.

 

[Anonymous]

First, These insights are enlightening, thank you so much, makes it clearer for me especially the breaking circle article. But I have a quick question and hopefully receive some advice on this. What if one of the people that try to interrupt you is a girl that "friend-zoned" you, how do you handle this awkward situation?

I almost positive that I didn't handled it the correct way last night, initially acknowledging her when I was doing the newbie assignment trying to get a number from a different girl. p.s.(she was hovering around me in the bar for like 3 mins before acknowledged her, and the 2nd time I was with a different girl I acknowledged her really quickly like 30secs)

 

[stratvm]

What really pisses me off is when I'm talking to a girl and one of my friends or one of her friends is trying to distract me by interjecting into the conversation. If it's one of my friends, then I feel like punching him in the face right then and there. I usually have laser-focus when it comes to conversation with a girl and then the entire world fades from view. It's harder when you have interjecting parties.

Thanks for another great insight, Chase.

it`s sad but i experience cockblocking so frequently it`s ridiculous. can`t decide whether girls of men are more ridiculous when cockblocking but i think rather men as their most frequent reason for interrupting is that the girl is engaged. if she is engaged why is she grinding on the dancefloor?

btw i think Chase should write a post about how to persuade girls for 3 or 4somes. my boss back in london told us nowadays its easier to take 2 or 3 women home than 1.

 

[AFCnoob]

What if one of the people that try to interrupt you is a girl that "friend-zoned" you, how do you handle this awkward situation?

Sounds like your cool attitude toward her and preselection (busier with other girls) rekindled at least a bit of interest in you for her. I've had trouble with this myself---on a recent interaction, a girl who was actively deflecting my advances suddenly decided she wanted to come up and get all friendly when she spotted me talking to another girl (two girls, one venue).

Chase's advice to me was to friend zone her right back! I would properly break circle (check with the girl you're talking to first, and not fully engage the other girl), and then simply exchange a few friendly words while making it clear that I'm busy doing something else. If she doesn't take the hint, you might just come out and say "Yeah, I'm talking to [girl's name] here...see you in a bit!" Or some such.

On a final note, I don't acknowledge anyone who "hovers around" anymore (I used to), that's bending to social pressure, and you simply don't have to.

 

[Chase]

btw i think Chase should write a post about how to persuade girls for 3 or 4somes. my boss back in london told us nowadays its easier to take 2 or 3 women home than 1.

There's a fair amount of truth in this. You're essentially backloading the work - whereas with one girl, you do all the work up front to get her primed and ready and finally pull her home, with 2 or more girls you're getting them home ASAP (sometimes within minutes of meeting them), but then you've got some work cut out for you setting everything up and structuring it back home.

I'm still working on cold approach threesomes / moresomes to get a consistent methodology down on that one. I have some initial notes on it, but I don't want to go talking about it too much until I have a few more data points in case I end up giving out bad advice / faulty technique. But from what I've seen in a few initial cold approach threesome pulls, there's often a pretty strong sexual vibe already when you manage to pull two girls back with you, and the biggest thing is simply making sure that the girl who's the leader of the two is on board with you. And... it's an especially bad idea to try sleeping with the more submissive girl first behind the leader's back, because the leader then turns from willing participant to almighty cockblock as soon as she realizes.

Chase

 

[Light]

Can't wait for the 3sum / moresome post Chase.