FU everything except a kiss

[mike james]

This happened almost a month ago so I definitely forgot some of the details but I think its worth writing because I made some nice progress and encountered very severe LMR.

I was at a concert, showed up with 3 friends but I knew none of them will wing me. Good thing was that my best and only wing was there with his friends, so we met later that night for 2 man.

Spoiler: interaction

Anyway, I was standing in the crowd, alone, and there was a group of girls beside me. One girl came from the opposite direction, and stood next to me. I even think she gently bumped me to notice her.

I opened with some innocent question about the venue or something like that. She responded nicely and I knew it was on.

We had a nice conversation, she asked me questions about myself, was comfortable with my touch, laughed etc...

At some point I realized that we havent establish man to woman frame i.e. sexual intention.
I met her friends, and then my wing showed up. He started talking to her best friend who was cuter, and very open to talk.
Anyway, again it was kind of weird to me to transition to more touching and sexual vibe since the first 30 minutes of our interaction wasnt like that.
I started touching her more and more, isolated her to the side and started to get really close to her. She was ok with me touching her this much.
I knew it was time to kiss her, and since that was my assignment form last FR, I started working towards it.

We talked about sexual topics, she told me that she is a virgin, and that she only kissed 2 guys in her life. I used this to tease her a little bit, but also deep dive her and talk about sex, portraying myself as an experienced guy (which Im definitely not). I took her hands and started to dance with her, which was cringe and uncomfortable for me, because I never do it, but fuck it I thought it was nice way to prepare us for the kiss. I put her arms on my shoulders, got close, and leaned in. She leaned back with a slight surprise in her look. That was unexpected for me since at this point she was basically pushing her pussy on my dick. However this did not discourage me and I thought that I just need to be more calibrated with it so I run my staring contest routine. I learned from my last time doing this, and again I playfully pushed her face, got close, to the point where we were staring at each other souls, as our foreheads were touching, she was smiling.

I leaned in again, and again she declined.

Then I run other routine which includes neck kissing and biting ears. She enjoyed it, but she was a little bit nervous. I kissed her neck a whole lot, and even got her to bite mine.
When I leaned in again she leaned back.


She said all the classic lines:

Im not that type of girl
we dont know each other
I dont hook up etc...
My friend is worried about me...

I asked her: isnt this nice (neck kissing), I know you like it and kissing is even better.
She agreed for neck kissing but she was firm in her resistance to kissing.

Told her, that we are not gonna do anything shes not comfortable with, but still she was resistant.

Then she said lets go to get some drinks, which I thought is positive signal from her, and I still dont know if it was.

We got drinks, and went away from the crowd to hang out.
I was leaning against the wall, while she was in front of me, with her body fully turned to me. She started showing a little resistance when I wanted to pull her in by her belt loops, and put her arms around my shoulders.When we were hugging I slided my hand down on her ass for the first time, but she immediately smacked my hand away.

Nevertheless, she still complied hugging and me kissing her neck, and again she was pushing her pussy on my dick.
This is the part where I really started trying to convince her that we should kiss, but still, every time I leaned in she backed off. I kissed her neck a lot, when we were talking about something completely off topic.

She said something like: Im very caring and I like to express my love to people.
Me: prove it then, what act is more expressing love than kissing?
She kissed me on the cheek, but by this point I realized that she was not gonna kiss me.

This whole time when we were isolated, she kept talking about getting back to her friend. Meanwhile, my wing and her friend were dancing, hugging, and smiling on their own. She got a text from her friend to meet outside, and she told me she that she has to go. I just looked at her, and she walked away without looking back.

When I met with my wing 5 minutes later, he told me that his girl did not wanna kiss either, and that she just left him.

Spoiler: sticking points and conclusion

I spent hour and a half, on this girl, did a lot of thing that I havent done before, moved her, did my assignment, but still could not finish with her.
I tried all I could think of in the moment, to counter her LMR, but it didnt work. I was not frustrated that much, because I gave my all, hit my biggest goal for that night, and even got some practice kissing her neck.

The only thing that I think I could have done differently is to move faster.

Still my sticking points remain the same:
Touching, transitioning to kiss, kissing,moving fast and hitting escalation windows.

I think that every night I should have a clear goal in mind:
Actually try to kiss a girl, i.e. put my hands on her, get close and lean in for a kiss.

If you guys have any suggestion on how I can work on this, think of some goals and baby/actionable steps that would cover this , that I could have for every night, please tell me.

 

[Keff]

This happened almost a month ago so I definitely forgot some of the details but I think its worth writing because I made some nice progress and encountered very severe LMR.

I was at a concert, showed up with 3 friends but I knew none of them will wing me. Good thing was that my best and only wing was there with his friends, so we met later that night for 2 man.

Spoiler: interaction

Anyway, I was standing in the crowd, alone, and there was a group of girls beside me. One girl came from the opposite direction, and stood next to me. I even think she gently bumped me to notice her.

I opened with some innocent question about the venue or something like that. She responded nicely and I knew it was on.

We had a nice conversation, she asked me questions about myself, was comfortable with my touch, laughed etc...

At some point I realized that we havent establish man to woman frame i.e. sexual intention.
I met her friends, and then my wing showed up. He started talking to her best friend who was cuter, and very open to talk.
Anyway, again it was kind of weird to me to transition to more touching and sexual vibe since the first 30 minutes of our interaction wasnt like that.
I started touching her more and more, isolated her to the side and started to get really close to her. She was ok with me touching her this much.
I knew it was time to kiss her, and since that was my assignment form last FR, I started working towards it.

We talked about sexual topics, she told me that she is a virgin, and that she only kissed 2 guys in her life. I used this to tease her a little bit, but also deep dive her and talk about sex, portraying myself as an experienced guy (which Im definitely not). I took her hands and started to dance with her, which was cringe and uncomfortable for me, because I never do it, but fuck it I thought it was nice way to prepare us for the kiss. I put her arms on my shoulders, got close, and leaned in. She leaned back with a slight surprise in her look. That was unexpected for me since at this point she was basically pushing her pussy on my dick. However this did not discourage me and I thought that I just need to be more calibrated with it so I run my staring contest routine. I learned from my last time doing this, and again I playfully pushed her face, got close, to the point where we were staring at each other souls, as our foreheads were touching, she was smiling.

I leaned in again, and again she declined.

Then I run other routine which includes neck kissing and biting ears. She enjoyed it, but she was a little bit nervous. I kissed her neck a whole lot, and even got her to bite mine.
When I leaned in again she leaned back.


She said all the classic lines:

Im not that type of girl
we dont know each other
I dont hook up etc...
My friend is worried about me...

I asked her: isnt this nice (neck kissing), I know you like it and kissing is even better.
She agreed for neck kissing but she was firm in her resistance to kissing.

Told her, that we are not gonna do anything shes not comfortable with, but still she was resistant.

Then she said lets go to get some drinks, which I thought is positive signal from her, and I still dont know if it was.

We got drinks, and went away from the crowd to hang out.
I was leaning against the wall, while she was in front of me, with her body fully turned to me. She started showing a little resistance when I wanted to pull her in by her belt loops, and put her arms around my shoulders.When we were hugging I slided my hand down on her ass for the first time, but she immediately smacked my hand away.

Nevertheless, she still complied hugging and me kissing her neck, and again she was pushing her pussy on my dick.
This is the part where I really started trying to convince her that we should kiss, but still, every time I leaned in she backed off. I kissed her neck a lot, when we were talking about something completely off topic.

She said something like: Im very caring and I like to express my love to people.
Me: prove it then, what act is more expressing love than kissing?
She kissed me on the cheek, but by this point I realized that she was not gonna kiss me.

This whole time when we were isolated, she kept talking about getting back to her friend. Meanwhile, my wing and her friend were dancing, hugging, and smiling on their own. She got a text from her friend to meet outside, and she told me she that she has to go. I just looked at her, and she walked away without looking back.

When I met with my wing 5 minutes later, he told me that his girl did not wanna kiss either, and that she just left him.

Spoiler: sticking points and conclusion

I spent hour and a half, on this girl, did a lot of thing that I havent done before, moved her, did my assignment, but still could not finish with her.
I tried all I could think of in the moment, to counter her LMR, but it didnt work. I was not frustrated that much, because I gave my all, hit my biggest goal for that night, and even got some practice kissing her neck.

The only thing that I think I could have done differently is to move faster.

Still my sticking points remain the same:
Touching, transitioning to kiss, kissing,moving fast and hitting escalation windows.

I think that every night I should have a clear goal in mind:
Actually try to kiss a girl, i.e. put my hands on her, get close and lean in for a kiss.

If you guys have any suggestion on how I can work on this, think of some goals and baby/actionable steps that would cover this , that I could have for every night, please tell me.

I am definitely all for the Have Your Eye on the Goal maxim, but I feel like here you were a little too on the obsessed side of the spectrum in your pursuit of that goal. Obviously a much more calibrated veteran can pull off a kiss in minutes even with some virgins, but that's more because of his refined readiness-reading abilities than some arbitrary "I have to get this kiss" goal, right?

This girl is wildly inexperienced, told you as such, but is not running for the hills. Which says to me, INTEREST. She even takes it upon herself to move the interaction elsewhere, Let's Go Get Drinks, of course INTEREST, right? Only trying to say It's Coming Bud, but cool your breaks for a sec, will ya? Probably with a bit of time, to allow her to get really comfortable with you around her while not trying to get into her mouth at every turn, would have eventually gotten you a compliant girl who would have been willing to go even beyond a kiss, perhaps even as far as seeing where the night could lead with you.

Anyway, that's my opinion on the matter. Not to say Stop Trying for that Kiss, of course -- this is how we all learn; Only pointing out some things I believe could use some refinement.

Ciao,
Kef

 

[mike james]

I am definitely all for the Have Your Eye on the Goal maxim, but I feel like here you were a little too on the obsessed side of the spectrum in your pursuit of that goal.

Completely possible, but thats because I struggle with closing, and that night was the first that I had a clear goal in mind, therefore, focusing on working on my sticking point. I am frustrated with amount of work Im putting in, in comparison to the amount of success Im getting(or should I say lack of success). I feel like I just need to score some ASAP, to get some momentum and break my mental barrier that I had created. I understand that this feeling can lead my into more problems like outcome dependence, but I just cant relax and work hard at the same time, especially while having zero closes in the past period.

This girl is wildly inexperienced, told you as such, but is not running for the hills. Which says to me, INTEREST. She even takes it upon herself to move the interaction elsewhere, Let's Go Get Drinks, of course INTEREST, right?

I felt like I did everything I could to kiss her but, this comfort building direction, didnt cross my mind, because we had already spent together about an hour or more at that point, besides spending even more time with her seemed pointless to me since it was late, she wasnt that cute, nor interesting, and only once have I spent the night with the girl after finding myself in this situation. Actually it was nearly the same situation, but that time I stayed with her and her friend, and she was way more comfortable with my company. I took her on a date days later. Maybe youre totally right, I guees I just percived her as too much work for too litlle pleasure/reward.

Only trying to say It's Coming Bud, but cool your breaks for a sec, will ya?

Regarding this situation, or you are saying that results will definitely come, and I just need to keep working on my game?

Anyway, that's my opinion on the matter. Not to say Stop Trying for that Kiss, of course -- this is how we all learn; Only pointing out some things I believe could use some refinement.

Ciao,
Kef

Your opinion is very much appreciated my guy, Im always happy to hear where can I improve, after all thats why all of us are here right?
Thxxx

 

[Skater]

Many times when I'm not intrinsically motivated and try for escalation the girl can feel the vibe and rejects on the incongruence.

You said this girl was "not that cute" so you probably were coming at it from a perfunctory, agenda-based angle, which was probably subconsciously sensed and rejected: "It didn't feel right."

After Sunday night's debacle, I set a goal for blowing out girls I'm not attracted to. Fuck practice. Momentum-building only.
I did end up in a heated makeout but it wasn't particularly enjoyable. And wouldn't have happened if she didn't all but initiate it herself.

Did you have a boner for her? At least a semi? That's the fuel.
You need Party-Dong as Jeffy says. Only Party and you're a dancing monkey. Only Dong and you're a creepy fuck. Both and it's ON.

In terms of concrete escalation tactics, I recommend DiCarlo Escalation Ladder. Good guidance but beware of religiously adhering to it.

Little nitpick here (with apologies):

encountered very severe LMR

LMR happens (mostly) in the bedroom

 

[mike james]

You said this girl was "not that cute" so you probably were coming at it from a perfunctory, agenda-based angle, which was probably subconsciously sensed and rejected: "It didn't feel right."

Completely possible, but I dont think my game was much different in comparison to my game when I think the girl is cute.
However, it sure felt awkward when I really started the convincing stage.

Did you have a boner for her? At least a semi? That's the fuel.

Semi. When she pushed her pussy on my dick.

You need Party-Dong as Jeffy says. Only Party and you're a dancing monkey. Only Dong and you're a creepy fuck. Both and

I agree.

Thanks for the reply brotha!

 

[Skater]

However, it sure felt awkward when I really started the convincing stage

Yup, this is one of my problems too. How to escalate when lacking dong-motivation. A perennial question.
Maybe the answer is to be found in constantly being hornier than a frat boy. Not sure how to do this (or if I'd want to).