FR FitChick (girl with game!)

[Marty]

Summary: I approached a gorgeous girl in day-game who responded very warmly; she seemed to know what she was doing, and may have even given me an approach invitation. I got a very favorable response to my icebreaker text and am trying to set up a date.

Narrative: I have no idea what happened to me yesterday. It might have been the strength exercises I did the night before, that boosted my testosterone or something, but the whole day long I had rewarding and valuable interactions with women.

Before I even left for work in the morning, I chatted with the neighbors' French au-pair as she was cleaning her car, and asked her out for coffee the same day. She gave me her number; she later declined over text, but no matter. It got me off to a good start. As I stepped out the elevator at my offices, a girl who had previously declined a date gave me a warm smile. As I unlocked my office door, another who had allowed me to escalate but had a change of heart and declined a private meeting, stopped to chat with me. At lunchtime I cold-approached a girl sitting in a food court; she declined a date on account of leaving town this week, but seemed delighted to talk with me. Another in the street actually started eye-contact flirting with me as she crossed the street, very obviously, but failed to open when I turned around to catch her up—strangely. As I left the office at the end of the day, a girl who had been very warm initially but then declined coffee, then couldn't fit in lunch before Thanksgiving, actually stopped me to talk. At a high point in the conversation due to something funny I accidentally said, I touched her and she really warmed to me. We now have lunch scheduled. Then as I left the building, yet another girl who had ignored a drinks invitation started chatting with me at her own initiative; a funny high point also occurred, I touched her too, and she went off home happy and smiling

And then this.

I got home to find I was out of mushrooms and needed them for the recipe I planned to cook. There is a Kroger across the street; I headed there. I always take the opportunity to approach in grocery stores if there is one. There were big carts and little carts, but I decided on a handbasket; there's something "tame" about a man pushing a cart, while by contrast a masculine grasp on a basket is straight out of some sappy San Francisco romantic comedy where a girl meets her dream lover while grocery shopping—don't you think? So long as you don't have a week's worth of shopping, anyway.

As I entered with my basket I was just thinking "Wouldn't it be nice if there was some attractive girl in the store I'd like to... OH MY GOD!!!" as a tall, athletic-looking beauty breezed past. We'll call her FitChick.

FitChick was perhaps 5'11", with long, straight chestnut hair. She was wearing a violet sports top, white stretch pants and sneakers. She had the figure of a sportswoman... erect posture, attractively sculpted shoulders, small ass and just the hint of a perky chest, long legs. Too tall to be a gymnast... she had this All-American athletic appearance, like one of the prettiest girls from the US Olympic diving or swim team. Wet-dream type of stuff, for me at least. She was chatting away on her cell phone, and from her intonation it was immediately clear that she was speaking with another female.

I am ashamed to say that my instinctive reaction, not yet having quite conquered my habit cycle, was a "inferior male auto-rejection"–type maneuver. I was thinking to myself that to open her would be practically suicidal, I'd get blown off before I could say "I just wanted to tell you..."!

Nonetheless I mentally overcame this as I headed into the store. I picked up fresh produce, watched her move off down the back aisle. Once I got there she turned into a side aisle; I took a parallel one. I hesitated over toilet paper, then realized that what could be more confident and spontaneous-seeming than opening a girl with a 12-roll pack of toilet paper under my arm? I returned toward the back aisle and just as I turned the corner someone practically bumped into me... it was FitChick!!!

• FitChick: (over her shoulder, walking off) I'm so sorry!
  
  Marty: Excuse me!

She was off her phone by now and headed to the meat section. I shoved the 12-roll of toilet paper under my left arm, grabbed the basket in my left hand underneath, leaving my right hand free to take hers upon introduction. I sidled down among the fresh meat and came up beside her as she was browsing. Obviously, she didn't turn her head to look at me; I don't know for sure whether she had me in her peripherals, but you can usually safely assume that women do, and what transpired suggests that was indeed the case:

• Marty: (facing the shelf) Look, I nearly bumped into you back there, and—
  
  FitChick: Oh, YES!!! (beaming smile)
  
  Marty: (speechless for a second, then continue)—I couldn't resist coming back to say "hello".

It was the same line I'd been using all day, but I really meant it this time, and I'd never been interrupted halfway through by an eruption of enthusiasm from the girl! I didn't think the near-miss collision had been an Approach Invitation, but now I'm not so sure...

• FitChick: Where are you from? (taking me completely off-script before I even know her name)
  
  Marty: I grew up in England, but... (spread hands expansively, in meaningless gesture) What about you, where are you from?
  
  FitChick: I'm here right now, but I grew up with an Army family, moved around a bit.
  
  Marty: (extending hand) I'm Marty.
  
  FitChick: FitChick! Nice to meet you. (takes hand, still beaming)

I'd guess she was about 22, but I'm a poor judge of women's ages... certainly around 15 years my junior though. I'll eat my hat if she's over 25. I ask whether she is studying or in employment. She is working and we chat about it a little. We have a couple things in common. Then I don't know what made me do this, it felt lame at the start, but it turned out good:

• Marty: (glancing at her basket, then off into the distance, breaking eye contact completely) Are you just grabbing some stuff for dinner?
  
  FitChick: Yeah, actually I'm seeing a friend I haven't talked with for four years... I'm sorry, I have to—

Presumably the party on the other end of the phone line earlier. I swear this girl has game. Hope she doesn't read Girls Chase! It had actually not been my intention to suggest that we cook together, but she seemed to anticipate that and save the interaction for me.

• Marty: Well I don't want to keep you from that... Maybe we can continue this conversation over coffee some day soon?
  
  FitChick: (nodding encouragingly) Yes! I'd like that!
  
  Marty: Here, let me... (pause, break eye contact, reach into pocket) ...get your details...

I place my basket and toilet paper on the floor and hand her my phone with the dialer open. I take her basket from her hands.

• Marty: Let me grab that from you for a moment so you can punch in your number. (pause) So it must have been interesting for you as a child, with your Dad in the Army, did you move around the country... internationally as well perhaps?
  
  FitChick: Not abroad unfortunately, but we did live in some interesting places. (entering digits)
  
  Marty: "FitChick", wasn't it?
  
  FitChick: Yeah, I've put a C in there as well, my last name starts with a C.

I kid you not. Like she thinks I open so many girls with the same first name that I'm liable to get confused. (Actually there have been 2 others, haha!) Then this:

• 
  Marty: Well, I look forward to speaking again.
  
  FitChick: Yes! Call me, so I have your number!

It's like Chase has hired a female coach to give students of the game some training. I'm resisting the temptation to say "I do know!" I didn't cheek-kiss; that seems fine in the street but the meat section of a supermarket...? Correct me if you think I'm rationalizing unhealthily.

A few minutes later I see her leave the store; as I'm standing in line for the self-checkout, I fire off an icebreaker immediately. No sense in letting the passion cool!

Here's the texting:

• Tue 6:41 PM Marty: Hey FitChick, good chatting! Save my number -Marty
  
  Tue 8:27 PM FitChick: It was nice bumping into you! Your number is saved, I look forward to hearing from you
  
  Wed 8:20 AM Marty: Haha, glad you bumped into me too! Hope you enjoyed your reunion with your friend. How's your schedule looking for a coffee or bite this week?

(No response yet.) Now where do you think FitChick's response comes on NarrowJ's scale of "eagerness"? I liked her joke about bumping into me.

I'm a little confused on several points. When she said "Call me so I have your number", do you think that means I should have phoned her and not texted her?

I decided this morning that I'd better follow Franco's general advice and text to keep it simple; I think maybe if you meet a girl in social circle, or in night-game and have to take a few hints from her, then you need to call to show you have some courage, but opening a girl in day-game is itself quite bold and I reckoned there was more to lose by potentially messing up the phone conversation.

I know Colt advocates phoning though. Maybe if she doesn't respond for, say, two days I could call her Friday morning? Or sooner?

And for future reference, was 12 hours (i.e. overnight) too long to wait to text her back after she responded to my icebreaker within 2 hours? Should I have texted back late that night? Any opinions you wish to offer?

Thanks, friends! This is one I'd definitely want to keep around

-Marty

 

[Grand Pooba]

Marty,

Nice FR. Take my suggestions/input with a grain of salt (as I continue to learn how to do everything) but let's see...

Before I even left for work in the morning, I chatted with the neighbors' French au-pair as she was cleaning her car, and asked her out for coffee the same day. She gave me her number; she later declined over text, but no matter. It got me off to a good start. As I stepped out the elevator at my offices, a girl who had previously declined a date gave me a warm smile. As I unlocked my office door, another who had allowed me to escalate but had a change of heart and declined a private meeting, stopped to chat with me. At lunchtime I cold-approached a girl sitting in a food court; she declined a date on account of leaving town this week, but seemed delighted to talk with me. Another in the street actually started eye-contact flirting with me as she crossed the street, very obviously, but failed to open when I turned around to catch her up—strangely. As I left the office at the end of the day, a girl who had been very warm initially but then declined coffee, then couldn't fit in lunch before Thanksgiving, actually stopped me to talk. At a high point in the conversation due to something funny I accidentally said, I touched her and she really warmed to me. We now have lunch scheduled. Then as I left the building, yet another girl who had ignored a drinks invitation started chatting with me at her own initiative; a funny high point also occurred, I touched her too, and she went off home happy and smiling

Social Momentum in action.

As I entered with my basket I was just thinking "Wouldn't it be nice if there was some attractive girl in the store I'd like to... OH MY GOD!!!" as a tall, athletic-looking beauty breezed past. We'll call her FitChick.

This was cool to read, I'm trying to put myself in your shoes and I bet it was an exhilarating moment.

Marty: (facing the shelf) Look, I nearly bumped into you back there, and—

FitChick: Oh, YES!!! (beaming smile)

Marty: (speechless for a second, then continue)—I couldn't resist coming back to say "hello".
It was the same line I'd been using all day, but I really meant it this time, and I'd never been interrupted halfway through by an eruption of enthusiasm from the girl! I didn't think the near-miss collision had been an Approach Invitation, but now I'm not so sure...

My guess is your fundamentals and vibe are very much in line, which judging by your other FRs definitely seems to be the case. I remember reading somewhere on GC that when it's like that, when you project a sexy vibe, women just assume that you're someone they'd like to get to know better. If you have any tips on fundamentals/what you've learned, can you share them via PM? Something I'm still trying to solidify.

I like how simple and straightforward you kept the entire interaction, no fluff. I bet there was a lot of non-verbal communication and tension going on.

Marty: Well I don't want to keep you from that... Maybe we can continue this conversation over coffee some day soon?

FitChick: (nodding encouragingly) Yes! I'd like that!

Marty: Here, let me... (pause, break eye contact, reach into pocket) ...get your details...

If she's that eager from the get go, I think you could have asked for her schedule there and then and set up this coffee date in person, rather than doing it by text later...venue, date, the whole deal. Then you can just reaffirm it with your second text.

Tue 8:27 PM FitChick: It was nice bumping into you! Your number is saved, I look forward to hearing from you

Wed 8:20 AM Marty: Haha, glad you bumped into me too! Hope you enjoyed your reunion with your friend. How's your schedule looking for a coffee or bite this week?

Nice chase frame in your response text "glad you bumped into me too," didn't see this till I read it again. Wonder if you could have made a witty remark.

When she said "Call me so I have your number", do you think that means I should have phoned her and not texted her?

She responded to your text anyway, and eagerly too, so I don't think it means that.

And for future reference, was 12 hours (i.e. overnight) too long to wait to text her back after she responded to my icebreaker within 2 hours? Should I have texted back late that night? Any opinions you wish to offer?

I try to match the response frequency of the girl. Example, if she waits two hours before responding, I'll wait approximately 1.5-4 hours before responding back, unless there's a good reason not to. I'm sure others have different inputs with this.

Keep us posted on what happens Marty!

 

[Marty]

Ozzo, thanks!

Social Momentum in action.

Didn't realize this, but it makes sense when I think about it.

My guess is your fundamentals and vibe are very much in line, which judging by your other FRs definitely seems to be the case. I remember reading somewhere on GC that when it's like that, when you project a sexy vibe, women just assume that you're someone they'd like to get to know better. If you have any tips on fundamentals/what you've learned, can you share them via PM? Something I'm still trying to solidify.

I PMed you as requested, but I'm not sure I can give you tips as such, also not sure how seriously you should take what I say. My counsel would be to wait for NarrowJ's Fundamentals article to come out... hint

I think you could have asked for her schedule there and then and set up this coffee date in person, rather than doing it by text later...venue, date, the whole deal. Then you can just reaffirm it with your second text.

You're right of course—too late now, but see below!

Nice chase frame in your response text "glad you bumped into me too," didn't see this till I read it again. Wonder if you could have made a witty remark.

Yeah, something like "You'd better be less careful next time"... only just thought of that

So here's the deal. She texted me back around 5 PM, and it was a very warm text along the lines of what Estate described here (I've linked to my quote of his post, because his post is very long and you might not find the relevant text). "FitChick" also essentially said she'd make time for me. And just like Estate said about his girl, I think this one's awesome too. I just keep reminding myself to hold on tight and not to slip down too deep!

One question: the nearest I came to going "direct" on the approach was in the opening: "I couldn't resist coming back to say hello". Does this mean I should "open" the date with a direct remark, e.g. "I'd almost forgotten how cute you are", or is this unnecessary?

Thanks!

-Marty

 

[TheWiseFool]

I can't give my own thoughts currently cos I'm working on a paper, but it was a great field report! I was certainly empathizing with you the whole time man. Let us know how it goes
- The Wise Fool

 

[Grand Pooba]

Marty,

She sounds promising.

I just keep reminding myself to hold on tight and not to slip down too deep!

Probably a good idea! Abundance mentality.

One question: the nearest I came to going "direct" on the approach was in the opening: "I couldn't resist coming back to say hello". Does this mean I should "open" the date with a direct remark, e.g. "I'd almost forgotten how cute you are", or is this unnecessary?

I don't really feel experienced enough to remark on this. My hunch is to do something similar to what NarrowJ did in his HBRockerChick report (quotes pulled):
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3614

"She shows up looking quite different than when I first met her. She’s wearing a pretty grey dress and a little jean overcoat, and no blue streak in her hair. I tell her she looks very nice, and she thanks me and we hug.

We head inside, sit at the bar and both order beers. I ask if she’s hungry, and she says no. Which is fine, I’d rather just have the drinks anyway because I’m not hungry either. I do mention that she looks a lot different than when I’d last saw her. She says she wanted to “look good” for our date and giggles. I tell her “Oh so you’re trying to impress me. We’ll you’re doing a good job… so far” with a sexy smile. This is a chase frame (“you’re trying to impress me”), then the reward (“you’re doing a good job”) and the incentive to keep trying (“…so far”). "

It's just a hunch, so take it with a grain of salt. Perhaps comment on her cuteness (or forgetting how cute she was, maybe even something specific like her hair) in an indirect way that could set up a chase frame. "It's a good thing you bumped into me that day, I'd have never noticed how cute you are." Maybe? Thoughts?

 

[Mr.Rob]

Marty, fun read dude. I could really feel the emotions you go through when you describe it like that. Be in the mood to see hot girl. See hot girl and get a tad of anxiety. Wonder how your going to open this girl in xyz environment. Bump into girl (that usually doesn't happen to me). Etcetera.

About the whole opening direct or situation thing, I think your good. She seemed to be pretty ecstatic about meeting you in the first place (based on her enthusiasm at your first word). In your case I think situational (with implied direct... why else would you gone back over to introduce yourself {obviously not to reapologize for bumping into her}) was the way to go. Instead of spilling the beans you made your intentions clear through nonverbals (I think/hope) and you keep her guessing by not saying much verbally. Chase talks about that in an article that with the right vibe situational can be best but if your a beginner you usually don't have the sexy vibe to convey the right frame nonverbally.
Don't overthink it!

Especially on the texting thing, don't overthink it.

Btw when she sent you a reply to your icebreaker I think you shouldn't have replied back. Just simply texted her that night about her schedule. Just my thoughts.

Anyway keep us posted on what happens mate.

Over and out,

Rob

 

[Marty]

Rob:

Thanks for the good practical advice for carrying this interaction forward. Very useful and encouraging, thank you.

Btw when she sent you a reply to your icebreaker I think you shouldn't have replied back. Just simply texted her that night about her schedule. Just my thoughts.

Maybe I didn't quite make clear in my report what I did... My very next text after her icebreaker reply did in fact inquire about her schedule. Only thing was I sent it the next morning, which maybe set an unhelpful precedent for longer messaging times. Or are you saying I should have skipped the introductory sentence acknowledging her joke?

Anyway, doesn't matter now... like I said, she texted warmly saying she makes her own schedule and will accept my proposal. I've suggested a day to meet and we'll see what happens going forward. Awesome support, thank you for your input!

-Marty

 

[TheWiseFool]

Found this...

Women who don't go out at night can be really excited to meet you during the daytime, but you can't let it slip by hesitating. If you meet women during the daytime, you'll see this sometimes -- women who are really, really excited to meet you. They're not jumping up and down, per se -- but their eyes widen, they can't seem to stop smiling, and their body language immediately shoots open to you. This is the same thing you'll see in nighttime venues when a girl is very interested, but you might be surprised to see it happen during the day.

This is often a sign a woman is ovulating or otherwise very intrigued by you -- you should try to move things fast with her and either take her home with you that day or grab her phone number and set up a date with her immediately the next day. If you wait too long with women like this though, to set up a first date or to take them to bed, their attraction will often cool off and slip into a more logical mode of shifting you into boyfriend consideration or the friend zone, so strike while the iron is hot.

...In this article: https://www.girlschase.com/content/whats-best-way-pick-girls-get-ones-looking-you

Your note about her having this bright eyed look on her fave gave me a hunch about this girl I used to have a crush on. I didn't know she liked me cos I overthought to much, but whenever I'd talk to her she'd be really excited around me and her face would just "light up". It would freak me out cos I thought she was freaking out herself thinking, "O God him again...", but after reading so much, I realized, "If she thought I was weird, then she'd go out of her way to avoid me. So if she invests her effort to say hi, then that must've meant something..." and then it'd hit me and I would yell at myself for being blind, then laugh it off cos the past is the past. We live, love, and learn.

PS. Wish I knew texting game. I used to text so much now I don't even bother. More often than not I answer a text, put my phone facedown, go do something else and when I check my phone it's at random intervals so the recipients of my texts never know what to expect (lack of control, which I assume is good because the mind always wants to adapt and habitualize behavior). And if it's a girl who I'm not friends with, then I just reply short and to the point. I don't have the time or patience to deal with this stupid game of waiting so and so minutes before replying, it sounds ridiculous. I think of the video from college humor that Franco just posted up. However, that does say something, that I need to learn text game. But I am assuming that if a girl does not emotionally associate feelings of reward from texting, then she won't text me as much and will want to meet me in person much more because THAT'S where I'll get her feeling good. There was another point I wanted to make but it escapes me. I might have to do with the need to keep attraction going by sending a text here and there to show YOU CARE and that she has a place in her mind as women care SOLELY on how you make them FEEL. That could be it. Idk. These are my two cents regarding texting game. Take them with a grain of salt (not sure if I used that saying correctly).

Excited for you man,
- The Wise Fool

PS don't overthink. Once you start overthinking, boom... you lost em.

 

[Mr.Rob]

Maybe I didn't quite make clear in my report what I did... My very next text after her icebreaker reply did in fact inquire about her schedule.

Yeah buddy I missed it.

I read it 2 days ago and really wanted to comment but didn't get enough time.
I reread it today (or yesterday.. can't remember when you posted) and skimmed so yeah. Fuck You ...

Or I guess Fuck me!

I love getting fucked!

nuff nonsense.

-Rob

 

[Marty]

Here's an update, gents...

I scheduled a date for Saturday noon; FitChick was taking around a day to respond to each text (clearly making me work for it) so by Friday I just picked up the phone and called to finalize details. She picked up immediately and quit horsing around at that point. She had to delay by 15 minutes Saturday and when I genuinely didn't see the text until 45 minutes later, and wrote back, she responded immediately (I was even getting the "speech ellipse" on my iPhone) to finalize.

I arrived at the cafe at the newly appointed time of 12.15 PM, and she was already waiting. Huge smile, a hug from her which I converted smoothly into a cheek-kiss, immediate rapport. Hand on small of back as we entered the establishment... it goes without saying, I'm going to skip these obvious details from now on. (Sip her drink, blah blah.) The hostess offered us a crappy table and I instantly declined it and told her to find a better one; FitChick smiled at me and said "Thank you!"—and we got a great table.

We spent an hour in the cafe before I moved her. There were some fun tests, as you'll be expecting! Not just the obvious ones, like "Do you smoke cigarettes at all?" Right at the start, she asked me what I usually do for fun on the weekends. I instantly interpreted this as a glaring trap, and avoided the obvious pitfall of reeling off a list of exciting-sounding activities in a desperate effort to impress. Instead, I casually mentioned a couple things but threw the social pressure back upon her:

• Marty: But in general, for me home is a place to relax, recharge my batteries and take stock, away from other people.
  
  FitChick: Are you a very private person then?
  
  Marty: Yes I am. Do you ever find that there are parts of your life you'd prefer to keep secret, out of sight?
  
  FitChick: Yes, I do actually! Do you?
  
  Marty: I'm so pleased to hear you say that. I do too, and ... (look away, pause, meet her gaze again) ... many women I've known have wanted me to share every detail of my life with them.
  
  FitChick: Oh no, I'd never do that!

Instantly scrambling to qualify herself! Heartened by this turnaround, I pressed on...

• Marty: I'm not very good at relationships.
  
  FitChick: Oh! (laughs) Relationships... I'm not good at those either. (smiles, looks down)

There were some good moments. She runs her own business and when I got really deep into what drives her, she had her elbows on the little cafe table with her hands clasped up in front of her. I pressed my hands around hers, gave her steady, strong eye contact, and said: "It's so interesting getting to know you... every time I peel away one layer, there's something else fascinating underneath." I watched her melt. Then once she recovered:

• FitChick: You know, dating... a lot of men looked at me one way when I said worked in a law office, but when I told them I managed a network of service-sector outlets, they looked at me another way altogether.
  
  Marty: Right, like they have an image of what they're looking for and they're seeing whether you'll fit the template.
  
  FitChick: Exactly, squeeze me into the mold.
  
  Marty: It's so unimaginative... a person has can have so many interesting aspects to her character, and if you're so busy categorizing her one way or the other, you never get to discover all the wonder and magic. ... (long pause, hard stare) ... Imagine missing out on that.

She melted again.

She had mentioned that it was a beautiful day—unexpectedly, as rain had been forecast—so I asked whether she preferred walking the city streets or the park. She said the streets and got up and started putting on her coat. I remained motionless, smiling, waiting. Then:

• Marty: I think I'd better pay for this first, else they'll be after me!

That got her laughing. We walked ten blocks south along the city's main thoroughfare, then back eleven blocks north to her car. It took an hour and a half. Before we even reached the first street intersection, something in my head was screaming out that the touch barrier was a real issue, so I put my hand in my overcoat pocket and said: "Why don't you take my arm?" She did and we walked like that for the remainder of the date.

Shortly before turning around, we were passing an Italian restaurant, and this precious moment transpired:

• FitChick: What's your favorite dish? I mean, if you could have anything in the world cooked for you, what would you choose?

I sighed and shook my head, stopped her, turned to face her directly, held her close in my arms, looked into her eyes.

• Marty: You know, there's so many wonderful dishes, that by choosing ONE...
  
  FitChick: (with sparkling eyes)...you'd be missing out on all the others?

I moved in very close and we kissed passionately for a few seconds.

I "came up for air" and lightened the conversation after that to avoid the "spell broken" scenario, but we did get back into some deep topics... the oscillation between depth and "coming up for air" felt about right. About 45 minutes later we reached the intersection where her car was parked, one block north of the cafe. I asked to isolate (using plausible deniability of some photos we'd seeded earlier). She declined. I persisted twice more, she declined but "with regret", said we'd set another date to do it, had a social engagement later that day (this was a Saturday afternoon, remember). Then we kissed for a second time, the "full deal" as before. She said "Call me" and we squeezed hands as we parted.

 

[TheWiseFool]

This was a great read Marty! Glad your report is quite descriptive so I can create the scenario in my head and "live" it to a degree.

How did you go about doing this:

The hostess offered us a crappy table and I instantly declined it and told her to find a better one; FitChick smiled at me and said "Thank you!"—and we got a great table.

Did you humbly ask to be moved to a different table or was it a, "I'm not having any of this, there are plenty of better looking tables here"? Definitely a lot of points from her... people tend to just take what's given to them without objecting. I know that one must be gracious for what they are given, but I go by the motto, "Ask and you shall receive, seek Nd you shall find." In addition, "You always get what you give." Being assertive is a great quality to possess. In addition, you express empathy in later parts of the interaction and you couple it with the intrigue by feeding her words such as secrets or looking off into the distance.... CHRISTIAN GREY MAN!!! haha... I decided to pick up Fifty Shades of Grey yesterday and read a chapter or two and was comparing your actions to his and your actions match with bits of his mysteriously romantic archetype. A woman's imagination is your most powerful weapon.

I decided to read a bit of Fifty Shades of Grey yesterday night and this morning and I can see bits of your conversation and the book matching up. Certainly continue to fulfill that romantic archetype.

I'm not experienced in seduction so I can't confidently give advice, but I think it would have been better if instead of passionately kissing her, you could have teased her by holding her in a way that indicated that you wanted to kiss, pausing, and then letting her go saying, "Not yet my dear", then flashing a "I know something you don't know" smile. Maybe your kiss fulfilled some of her good feelings where she thought, "Alright the kiss was good enough for me" kind of deal and set up a next time scenario. Whatever the case is, plan for having the next date at your place since you've already indicated you don't do relationships. Fully fulfill the lover role and get her done haha.

And don't call her cos she told you to... just text her instead. I know that sounds like something easily ignored after reading four chapters of Fifty Shades of Grey, woman go crazy over men that don't listen to them... idk why. Not saying never do a thing she tells you, but make compromises and give a little here and there but in your own flavor.

Overall you seem like you know what your doing and don't need me throwing in feedback. I'll certainly take time after finals to read your posts to see "experience" your journey from beginning to now.
- The Wise Fool

 

[Marty]

Hey WiseFool, thanks for your commentary!

Did you humbly ask to be moved to a different table or was it a, "I'm not having any of this, there are plenty of better looking tables here"?

I don't ever "humbly ask" for anything (unless stopped by a traffic police officer—a rare occurrence but I've lived in countries where the rules are made up on the spot and in this case "humbleness" can be your cheapest option!), nor do I ever take a high-handed, huffy attitude as per your second example. I asked assertively: that means, my tone and body language carried an expectation of compliance while my words themselves were polite. It's important to develop that air of being "accustomed to command", or "gravitas" as I described it to another user. I didn't know that there were better tables available, and was pleasantly surprised when the hostess led us to one.

I decided to read a bit of Fifty Shades of Grey yesterday night and this morning and I can see bits of your conversation and the book matching up. Certainly continue to fulfill that romantic archetype.

Hey WiseFool, I'd never read this book but I had a copy lying around at home, so last night I picked it up and read the first few chapters. It blew my mind. It's like a fucking case study on the material taught here at Girls Chase! I mean, you could literally take a highlighter pen and hyperlink every third sentence or so to an article on this site. I've never seen anything like it... it's as if it's written specifically as an illustrative primer on the Amante School! Loving it and thank you for the recommendation.

(But in spite of the parallel you drew, unlike the hero, I'm not rich or successful, I'm not especially handsome, and I'm certainly not young—so I have to compensate for those deficiencies!)

I think it would have been better if instead of passionately kissing her, you could have teased her by holding her in a way that indicated that you wanted to kiss, pausing, and then letting her go saying, "Not yet my dear", then flashing a "I know something you don't know" smile. Maybe your kiss fulfilled some of her good feelings where she thought, "Alright the kiss was good enough for me" kind of deal and set up a next time scenario.

The trouble is, I love kissing, and although I realize it's counterproductive, I also enjoy being made to wait for sex. Not due to any Madonna-Whore complex ideas of "good girls" (which I certainly don't have, if indeed I ever did) but because resistance turns me on.

My concern here is whether I'll ever hear from her again. I don't have a good track record with girls I've kissed: the two I just linked to both apparently disappeared from the face of the Earth shortly after. I know it's to do with overproviding good feelings but I can't seem to fix it.

-Marty

 

[Mr.Rob]

Pretty fucking smooth Don Juan DeMarto. Lol . I really like your frame control in this bit I need to get up to date here. You did a good job giving the right emotions and steering the conversation into an intriguing exchange. "Why doesn't this man want to tell me every bit of his life like regular guys? Why is he so secretive but so open at the same time? I must find out!"

Marty: But in general, for me home is a place to relax, recharge my batteries and take stock, away from other people.

FitChick: Are you a very private person then?

Marty: Yes I am. Do you ever find that there are parts of your life you'd prefer to keep secret, out of sight?

FitChick: Yes, I do actually! Do you?

Marty: I'm so pleased to hear you say that. I do too, and ... (look away, pause, meet her gaze again) ... many women I've known have wanted me to share every detail of my life with them.

FitChick: Oh no, I'd never do that!

And this DeMarto was out of a movie

FitChick: What's your favorite dish? I mean, if you could have anything in the world cooked for you, what would you choose?
I sighed and shook my head, stopped her, turned to face her directly, held her close in my arms, looked into her eyes.

Marty: You know, there's so many wonderful dishes, that by choosing ONE...

FitChick: (with sparkling eyes)...you'd be missing out on all the others?
I moved in very close and we kissed passionately for a few seconds.

Fun read my man. I think your best bet now, coming from a speculative POV not an experienced obviously, would be to get her over to your place for dinner and a movie. And to help your conscious based on how you described everything I don't think you overprovided good feelings from kissing it sounded pretty similar to how Chase was describing in "kissing women in public smoothly". Simply rewarding them for investment. Sounded like you did just that. I say get her out again and close asap.

Keep us updated bro.

-Rob

 

[Marty]

Rob, thanks for the commentary and support. Very much appreciated, my friend.

"Why doesn't this man want to tell me every bit of his life like regular guys? Why is he so secretive but so open at the same time? I must find out!"

Yeah, that's me all over. It's not even an act. I sometimes surprise people with sudden directness, yet those closest to me tell me they often feel like they barely know me at all.

And this DeMarto was out of a movie

That's the issue. I was enjoying the moment so deeply, now I have a real concern that she won't want to meet again to avoid potentially sullying the precious memory of the date. Somewhere in Chase's articles it says girls can do this occasionally.

I say get her out again and close asap.

So do I. But I'm concerned she's placing high expectations on both of us, causing jumpiness, and I'm not sure whether she'll respond.

Let me give a bit of background. She seems like she's really "good at dating" and knows what she's doing... while I am putting into practice what I have learned here and the habits I have developed and ingrained, she is working off of actual, real experience. She hinted at it when she spoke of men's preconceptions about her, also the blatant screening questions ("Do you smoke cigarettes at all?"—like she's making sure she doesn't waste any of her time). This is all to the good as it means I have a "dancing partner" who knows the steps.

I also suspect she has read up extensively on advice in women's magazines, websites, guidance from female friends etc.—witness the slow-game text messaging she was running the week before the date.

But in the spirit of her parting words "Call me", I called Sunday morning and left a voicemail when she didn't pick up. I didn't hear back so I sent something similar to Chase's "keep the ball rolling" text, if you know that one, and I still haven't had a response. Unless you have a better idea I think I'll wait until the weekend before reaching out again.

The problem with the bit that was "out of a movie" is that it cuts both ways! Although I'm keeping things moving forward with WillowyCutie too and continuing to open women, the whole "date perfection" thing has gotten me invested which is unhelpful to achieving success. I'm gonna take a deep breath

-Marty

 

[PrettyDecent]

Howdy Marty,

She said "Call me!", so you initially calling her and leaving her a voicemail doesn't count as chasing. The subsequent text could be considered negligible in terms of power dynamics, but probably a little toward her side. If you call/text her again this weekend, it's going to look not good. I'd give her radio silence for a little while longer, just to reset the negative compliance momentum, if nothing else. I'm keyboard jockeying if I give a time, but I'd say another two weeks. Explain to her you've been really busy, but you've been meaning to catch up with her again.

But yeah, she does seem a bit experienced! Only girls who are experienced ask hard hitting screening questions...and then keep screening if you're too vague. In some ways it's refreshing to meet a girl like this, she's very excited; into what you're saying, and you feel you can open up a bit more since she's genuinely interested in you. And that's what gives you a strong connection to her. But then you get ridiculous loads of difficult LMR when you go for the close, or even a kiss.

So yeah, my advice: let her cool off for a second, and come back later like you were too busy to schedule the date before.

You're smooth, man. Cool stuff you did on the date.

~Nick

 

[Marty]

Nick:

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly when I needed it.

Two weeks—wow. Good thing you wrote that. I doubt I'd have lasted more than 3 days if you hadn't mentioned it.

You know the four stages of competence learning model? In my weaker areas I think I'm just getting to "conscious incompetence", where I'm at least becoming aware of my shortcomings. Here's where I see myself at sea:

1. I don't understand attraction expiration properly.

• I've read and re-read the articles Attraction Has an Expiration Date and Secrets to Getting Girls: Move Faster, but if someone asked me to explain the concept, I can't honestly say I'd be able to tell them whether the clock ticks only during face time with the girl or throughout.
  
  If it's throughout, I get jumpy about waiting two weeks to contact a girl, because she might auto-reject or worse. The reason I'm conflicted is because I don't understand the concepts properly. In this case, the girl is clearly (or was) attracted, else she wouldn't have spent 2.5 hours of her Saturday with me and she wouldn't have kissed me, twice. So now what... do I risk attraction expiration by lying low a couple weeks and letting her cool her heels, or would that only happen if I failed to move fast when with her? All this practical fieldwork and I get back home and find I've not understood the theory...

2. I slip up on the "action at a distance" issue, every time.

• To be honest I think I've cracked a lot of this game when it comes to how I act in the presence of women. I'm confident I more or less know what I'm doing on opening, banter, rapport-building, moving, other compliance demands, deep-diving, proposing a date, number closing. I also think I'm a lot better than I used to be on the date itself... this one went pretty much according to plan and I didn't make any glaring errors.
  
  But when it comes to calling her, or (God help me) texting (shiver!), I am still so lost. What I'm basically doing at the moment is minimizing contact altogether and focusing on opening/dating other women. That's fine, but what do I do with one I've already made progress with? That's essentially why all the reports I'm filing are FRs and FR+s, and no LRs, because I can't get a girl out a second time. Even when the first time was smooth sailing.
  
  I have actually had social circle situations where I've asked for a specific date over text (after seeding it in person), been rejected, then asked the same girl again, nailing down the specifics in person this time, and been accepted and had it go swimmingly. Just shows how my written word makes zero impact on women (or worse).

3. The whole "getting into her pants" issue throws me for a loop.

• What do you do at the end of a date? My default position so far is that I seed some plausible deniability earlier on, then try to use it as things come to a close to isolate. For example, books showing the girl's home town, photographs, whatever. It fails every time and, worse than that, I think it's sabotaging my interactions.
  
  This is another example where I just haven't understood the theory on the site properly. The only reason I'm doing it is because Chase says so. I'm not actually so dripping with horniness that I can't wait to run home and fuck her. I'd be perfectly happy to do that at a later date, but it's drilled into us time and again that by waiting until next time, you risk her being scooped up by another man. Bummer. So there I stand at the close of each date, asking for sex when I don't really care whether I get it or not, except inasmuch as it would supposedly solidify the girl's connection to me if I did.
  
  Here's what messes with my head. Some girls, if you don't try to get into her pants, she gets some ridiculous, fanciful idea that you don't really desire her and auto-rejects or worse. Other girls, if you do try and get into her pants, she thinks you're just trying to get into her pants and don't value her as a person. And there's no way of telling beforehand which is which.
  
  Is there really no way of putting this whole sex issue on the back burner until I feel confident enough that the girl likes me and is gonna want to see me again? Or doesn't it work like that? Now I'm concerned she thinks I "only want one thing" and won't see me as a result...

Anyway, Nick, you helped me out a lot here. With regard to what you wrote specifically:

In some ways it's refreshing to meet a girl like this, she's very excited; into what you're saying, and you feel you can open up a bit more since she's genuinely interested in you. And that's what gives you a strong connection to her. But then you get ridiculous loads of difficult LMR when you go for the close, or even a kiss.

I agree it's exciting, I like this kinda girl and do feel I can open up. But you saying that it's because of the strong connection that she whips out her LMR shield at the close? Like she's boyfriend-zoning, doesn't want to lose me by moving too fast? I'd be okay with that if it weren't for the long silence that follows... And by the way, there was no resistance to the kiss whatever, in case I didn't make that clear. She was totally into it.

So yeah, my advice: let her cool off for a second, and come back later like you were too busy to schedule the date before.

Would you advocate going with a very low-key, cool "sorry I was totally slammed" kinda text, or is there any mileage in trying something smooth like "I know I told you I didn't have a favorite dish, but lately there's one I've developed a craving for"?

Also what if anything do I do if by some remote chance she texts me in the interim? Wait a day or two before responding??

Thanks!!

-Marty

 

[NarrowJ]

Hey Marty,

You're making some really good progress lately. It's really nice to see! I got your pm (hadn't logged in for several days), read through all of this, and found that everything has pretty much been covered!

I can offer my thoughts on these:

1. I don't understand attraction expiration properly.

• I've read and re-read the articles Attraction Has an Expiration Date and Secrets to Getting Girls: Move Faster, but if someone asked me to explain the concept, I can't honestly say I'd be able to tell them whether the clock ticks only during face time with the girl or throughout.
  
  If it's throughout, I get jumpy about waiting two weeks to contact a girl, because she might auto-reject or worse. The reason I'm conflicted is because I don't understand the concepts properly. In this case, the girl is clearly (or was) attracted, else she wouldn't have spent 2.5 hours of her Saturday with me and she wouldn't have kissed me, twice. So now what... do I risk attraction expiration by lying low a couple weeks and letting her cool her heels, or would that only happen if I failed to move fast when with her? All this practical fieldwork and I get back home and find I've not understood the theory...

Face time is most certainly when the clock is really ticking. I think it was Ricardus who stated in an article once that attraction will peak and then start to decrease after several hours of face time. Which, would be something like 2-3 dates. That is why if you go on 3-4 dates with a girl, without taking her to bed, you probably never will take her bed.

Don't worry about no-contact causing attraction to expire. Being a little aloof and not contacting a girl for a week or two should, in most cases and in my experience, actually build attraction as you become more scarce to her. It happens quite often that I'll have a girl who seems pretty lukewarm, and then I don't text her for two weeks, when suddenly she pops up asking to see me that same day!

2. I slip up on the "action at a distance" issue, every time.

• To be honest I think I've cracked a lot of this game when it comes to how I act in the presence of women. I'm confident I more or less know what I'm doing on opening, banter, rapport-building, moving, other compliance demands, deep-diving, proposing a date, number closing. I also think I'm a lot better than I used to be on the date itself... this one went pretty much according to plan and I didn't make any glaring errors.
  
  But when it comes to calling her, or (God help me) texting (shiver!), I am still so lost. What I'm basically doing at the moment is minimizing contact altogether and focusing on opening/dating other women. That's fine, but what do I do with one I've already made progress with? That's essentially why all the reports I'm filing are FRs and FR+s, and no LRs, because I can't get a girl out a second time. Even when the first time was smooth sailing.
  
  I have actually had social circle situations where I've asked for a specific date over text (after seeding it in person), been rejected, then asked the same girl again, nailing down the specifics in person this time, and been accepted and had it go swimmingly. Just shows how my written word makes zero impact on women (or worse).

That sounds about right to me, so I wouldn't over-think it. Written word really does have zero effect on women. So it's not just you. That's why texting is just to get her out on a date. I'm not sure if this is where you were really going with this point, but there's no way to increase attraction via texting. Sure, you can build a little rapport. But, that's mainly to be done if you weren't able to do that when you first approached.

From what I see, it seems like you have a lot of women playing hard ball with you. I'd guess the women you're approaching are pretty high-value and extremely attractive. From my experience, it just comes with the territory with those types. She probably has 3, 4 or 5 other guys texting her to get a date. And you know what? 2 or 3 of those guys will lose their cool, get frustrated, and start hammering her with texts and she'll write them off. The advantage you have is that you know not to do that, so you give yourself a chance by not being needy and going with the flow. You can certainly try to compress dates, but if she doesn't go for it, then she just doesn't go for it. You have to put her on the back burner, and either wait for her to hit you up or else try again in a week or two.

3. The whole "getting into her pants" issue throws me for a loop.

• What do you do at the end of a date? My default position so far is that I seed some plausible deniability earlier on, then try to use it as things come to a close to isolate. For example, books showing the girl's home town, photographs, whatever. It fails every time and, worse than that, I think it's sabotaging my interactions.
  
  This is another example where I just haven't understood the theory on the site properly. The only reason I'm doing it is because Chase says so. I'm not actually so dripping with horniness that I can't wait to run home and fuck her. I'd be perfectly happy to do that at a later date, but it's drilled into us time and again that by waiting until next time, you risk her being scooped up by another man. Bummer. So there I stand at the close of each date, asking for sex when I don't really care whether I get it or not, except inasmuch as it would supposedly solidify the girl's connection to me if I did.
  
  Here's what messes with my head. Some girls, if you don't try to get into her pants, she gets some ridiculous, fanciful idea that you don't really desire her and auto-rejects or worse. Other girls, if you do try and get into her pants, she thinks you're just trying to get into her pants and don't value her as a person. And there's no way of telling beforehand which is which.
  
  Is there really no way of putting this whole sex issue on the back burner until I feel confident enough that the girl likes me and is gonna want to see me again? Or doesn't it work like that? Now I'm concerned she thinks I "only want one thing" and won't see me as a result...

The part I bolded there is really the whole crux of the sex issue. That's what you have to figure out, is if she's ready for sex tonight or if she sees you as a potential boyfriend (or possibly more) and wants to wait until the 3rd date to get it on. Your approach to taking a girl back to your place is pretty spot on. Seed something interesting you have at your place a little early on, and then use that to pull her when she's ready. If she declines, then she declines. It's ok to persist a couple times, but don't overdo it. You can either sit there and continue to talk like most guys do, or say your goodbyes and end with a kiss to make her wonder what could have happened if she did go back to your place. Then, you just have to wait a couple days and text her to try to get another date. And, just for the sake of mentioning it, my general rule of thumb is three dates. If she isn't comfortable enough to go back to my place after the third date, then she never will be. Those are the ones that get nexted, and often pop up later wondering what happened to me and subsequently become less laborious about things (because they know that just wasn't working out for them the first time).



Hope I was able to add something here, Marty! Like I say, you're improving quite a lot. Keep it up!

NJ

 

[Marty]

NJ,

This has helped me hugely to put things in proper perspective, and I feel so much more confident now. Thank you.

I think a lot of the progress is down to following the spirit of your "risk-taking" article. This interaction for example: if I hadn't grabbed the opportunity and opened her, I'd have missed out on getting to know someone pretty special. Just thinking about that for a moment makes me feel rather reflective and inspired. The fact is, a fair amount of my process is now in place; I just to ensure I set it in motion at every appropriate opportunity, to solidify it and make it second nature: just have the decisiveness to rip off the protective covering each time and watch the mechanism uncoil.

Don't worry about no-contact causing attraction to expire.

Fantastic. You got straight to the point of my question. Now I feel confident what I'm doing is right. She'll know I haven't forgotten her (one text following the date, and a missed call) but she'll also know I'm not hounding her down.

Written word really does have zero effect on women. So it's not just you.

Got it. It's like zero or negative only, so the best outcome is to avoid spoiling things! Raising attraction must be done in person.

From what I see, it seems like you have a lot of women playing hard ball with you.

Yeah, it's really interesting. My opening percentage has shot through the roof, in terms of coming off the approach on a good note (women opening easily and obviously flattered, validated, glad I approached as opposed to feeling inconvenienced) in my last dozen or so approaches. A lot of that I suspect has to do with improved body language upon opening as well as honing my genuine interest so it doesn't come off too effusive (non-pedestalization). Once I move forward with them to the next stage of the interaction, though, you're right they're pushing back hard while not walking away. As explained in When Women Test Men, that must mean they aren't yet committed, but they're still potentially interested, else they wouldn't do it.

I'd guess the women you're approaching are pretty high-value and extremely attractive.

I'm very clear about this... I've never understood the popular scale but in language that makes sense to me, my subjective assessment is that FitChick is 99.8 percentile, i.e. of all women of childbearing age I see about town, only 1 in 500 is as attractive or more so. Even of the women I've actually opened (117 to date) she is in the top 15 for sure.

And that's just looks... add to that the fact that she runs her own business (in partnership with 4 others, all men—go figure!) and judging by her career history can't be much over 25, if that (I didn't ask, though I often do)... she must be one of the highest-value women I've ever had the pleasure of speaking with.

And you know what? 2 or 3 of those guys will lose their cool, get frustrated, and start hammering her with texts and she'll write them off. The advantage you have is that you know not to do that, so you give yourself a chance by not being needy and going with the flow.

This gives me enormous confidence that (a) I am doing no harm, and (b) even if this doesn't work out, I'm training myself to have the right habits. Thanks.

That's what you have to figure out, is if she's ready for sex tonight or if she sees you as a potential boyfriend (or possibly more) and wants to wait until the 3rd date to get it on.

You're talking "3rd date" in the popular imagination, right? Not literally I presume. I think I got the message. As is the case throughout the natural world, females are choosers. That means the male must put the choice in front of them. Just as it's my job as a man to open, so she can choose to respond or shut me down, and it's my job to propose a date, so she can choose to accept or decline—in the same way, it's the man's job to press for sex, so the lady can actually have the choice whether to accept him for a lover, turn him down altogether, or string it out toward a relationship. But if you don't give her the choice, you come off as unreliable, not understanding the rules of the game.

Like you said, women are playing hardball with me a lot lately, and I got the vibe from this girl that she was all for stringing things out for a tentative longer-term possibility. (Before dropping off the radar, at least.) Like:

• Taking 24 hours to respond to each of my texts in the run-up to the date, so I was actually forced to call her to prevent logistical difficulty
• Screening me hard in the first five minutes of the date, when we'd barely sat down, forcing me to dismiss and bat back her screens
• When we were discussing travel (some time after our first kiss), telling me that she hadn't yet been to Europe because she "needed someone to see it with"
• When I remarked on her deep, gravelly voice (again after our first kiss), telling me that "a lot of men find it sexy", to which I responded by grasping her hand (we'd been walking arm-in-arm before), stopping, looking her in the eye and telling her that she'd made her point that she was in demand =)

Right now I'm gonna see where I can push things by opening and advancing with other women, and we'll see what if anything comes of this. NJ, you've been an amazing help and support as ever. Thank you.

-Marty