FR Girl ghosts after an amazing date (Feedback please)

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Yet another German. I met her on the street when walking back from work and complimented on her leopard pants and teased saying "Did you kill it yourself?".
She laughed and kept walking but she was very compliant. So, I continued walking and talking with her. She had arrived yesterday morning and was new here and was exploring.

After walking 10-15 mins, we stopped at a harbour with view and talked for a little while. By then we had talked about my German friends, her job, my job, hobbies etc. I complimented her about her long eye lashes and dimples on the cheek with deep eye contact and she put her head down a few times when making eye contact. I told her my adventurous stories of travelling, hobbies etc.
Then it started to drizzle lightly and I suggested to get a coffee and we went to a nearby restaurant and had Tea. Talked a bit about her being vegetarian and me pescatarian etc and qualified her about turning vegetarian. There was not much physical escalation but there was a lot of eye contact and she was very well aware that I'm picking her up. There were ppl around me. So, I couldnt go into deep sex talk. But I tried my best and talked a little bit about secret society and then did some contrasting about how most guys dont get how to arouse a woman. But I must admit it was a bit abstract and she was agreeing to everything that I was saying. It was a bit strange too since she wasnt challenging anything that I was saying and she didnt look like she wasnt interested in what I was saying either. She was glued to what I was saying and was paying attention to what I was saying. There were not many shit tests and I think I passed all the basic shit tests. I created a frame of being a rebellious guy. So, she kinda knew that this is not uncommon what I'm doing, like picking her up off the street etc.

I told a short version of mental G-spot gambit but nothing graphic.. just basically made her aware that I get how women think. I mentioned that most guys think having sex with a girl a couple of times will make her fall for him and that is far from truth. Since confident men and women dont tie emotions to sex. She was not very convinced about this and said women become emotionally attached to guys after sex etc. However she eventually agreed. I created this frame since she is going to be here only for 5 weeks. So, I was ruling out her possible thinking of me clinging onto her after sex. We talked about heavy metal music and she liked it too. I qualified her around that topic and she complied. So, I suggested we should go back to my place and do a heavy metal party but she declined saying "At least not today". We can do it tomorrow and I also need to buy a phone charger. So, I said ok lets do tomorrow, you recharge your phone and yourself.

We continued talking for some more time about her friend who hooked up with a girl lot younger than him and he regretted that they were not a good match etc. I kinda argued saying age has nothing to do with getting along and its all about chemistry etc which she kinda thought is not ok for very young girls to hook up so much since they dont know what they want. I said its one way of learning for younger girls through experience. She asked me what my plans were and I said, I was going to meet some friends for Roller skating if it wasnt raining but not much now. (I think I fail this shit test everytime. If a girl asks me, what I'm doing today and if I say nothing - its low value but if I say some other activity - I obviously couldnt bounce her home. Its a catch-22 situation and dont know how to fix this).
I told her about a hippy festival I went to and how most ppl were naked there and I felt it was very liberating etc and said its a good thing to feel liberated like that. She qualified saying, yes when travelling you get to do such things and its one of the best things about travelling. She was implying crazy sex - hooking up a lot.

It was already 2.5hrs since we had met and I mentioned that I need to make a call and we'll leave. On the way back I asked her number and she said, she'll give me both her whatsapp number and phone number - It was a bit strange. I said either of them is fine and took her whatsapp. Strangely, she asked me to send her a text then and there so that she'll have my number - This was strange also cos no girl ever asks that. So, I sent "crazy chicken " in German and she said she didnt like that instead asked me to call her cute leapord. She had to buy a phone charger and so I showed her the way once we reached near my apartment. I was about to leave and she came over and gave me a hug and offered to get a kiss on the cheek. She left and I got inside my apartment.

Today morning I sent a text "Cute Leopard, did you sleep well and recharge your batteries? "

***Radio Silence***

In those 2.5 hours we talked a lot and looked like everything went well. I'm super frustrated about being ghosted on.

Worst part is, I dont even know what went wrong so that I can fix it next time.

 

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Don't currently have time to go through in detail but for this part:

She asked me what my plans were and I said, I was going to meet some friends for Roller skating if it wasnt raining but not much now. (I think I fail this shit test everytime. If a girl asks me, what I'm doing today and if I say nothing - its low value but if I say some other activity - I obviously couldnt bounce her home. Its a catch-22 situation and dont know how to fix this).

Throwing some ideas out there - you could possibly mention a high value activity that involves you being at home (working on a business, practicting an instrument etc). Unless this was a Friday or a Saturday night, in which case can possibly say you've been invited out to drinks etc but you kind of feel like staying in tonight since your last couple of weekends have been crazy - that way it looks like you have things going on, people want to hang out with you but you're the one choosing not to go.

We can do it tomorrow and I also need to buy a phone charger. So, I said ok lets do tomorrow, you recharge your phone and yourself.

Definitely could have been more persistent here. I'm not sure exactly what you could have said so perhaps others can chime in. Warning - this is speculation and not field tested but perhaps you could added some pressure - made it clear that you weren't available over the next couple of days and with a smile telling her you can charge your phone at mine. It's a good idea to have an iPhone charger if you have an Android and vice versa lying around at home for situations like this. If a girl says "lets do it tomorrow" or "another time" or something non-commital like that without being genuinely apologetic about it, it's probably never going to happen so turn up the heat and challenge her.

 

[Calibration]

Don't currently have time to go through in detail but for this part:



Throwing some ideas out there - you could possibly mention a high value activity that involves you being at home (working on a business, practicting an instrument etc). Unless this was a Friday or a Saturday night, in which case can possibly say you've been invited out to drinks etc but you kind of feel like staying in tonight since your last couple of weekends have been crazy - that way it looks like you have things going on, people want to hang out with you but you're the one choosing not to go.

Could try this.

Definitely could have been more persistent here. I'm not sure exactly what you could have said so perhaps others can chime in. Warning - this is speculation and not field tested but perhaps you could added some pressure - made it clear that you weren't available over the next couple of days and with a smile telling her you can charge your phone at mine. It's a good idea to have an iPhone charger if you have an Android and vice versa lying around at home for situations like this. If a girl says "lets do it tomorrow" or "another time" or something non-commital like that without being genuinely apologetic about it, it's probably never going to happen so turn up the heat and challenge her.

I don't know why I didn't persist tbh. Some of the reasons I remember are:
1. She seemed genuinely interested and didn't even think she'd ghost. This was the most important point. Sometimes her facial expressions are very authentic that you just trust her.
2. She had traveled yesterday and was tired and it was a valid reason for her to decline.
3. This is also something I come across from time to time. I fail to balance between coming across needy and being persistent. If she gives a reason which sounds legitimate and if I still persist, it'll come across needy. She said she was tired, wanted to buy groceries, phone charger etc.
However, I think all of these reasons were not very strong for me to not persist.
4. I myself was tired after work and I had spent 2.5 hrs talking to her. If I had to bring her home, escalate and fuck, would've been exhausting. So, thought it's better to do it today.
5. The last couple of girls who said will meet me later, did meet me. So, I didn't suspect that she'll ghost.

It's so easy to get into red pill mindset when they ghost. I'm feeling very pissed off today. If she had given a reason, it's still fine. I would've still felt bad but not as frustrating as being ghosted after having a good interaction. Feels like I learnt nothing from that cos I don't know where I fucked up as well. It's worse than a rejection when you approach cos you know the girl wasn't into you but this feels like deception.

 

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Don't give up that easily! I would definitely reengage after a short amount of time.

One possibility is to try and think of something from the date, like an inside joke or reference, then in a day or two message saying you "saw *something related to the reference" that reminded me of *reference*" and then re-engage. Or something along those lines.

Curious what others think the best way forward is.

 

[Calibration]

Don't give up that easily! I would definitely reengage after a short amount of time.

One possibility is to try and think of something from the date, like an inside joke or reference, then in a day or two message saying you "saw *something related to the reference" that reminded me of *reference*" and then re-engage. Or something along those lines.

Curious what others think the best way forward is.

No way... I'm not going to fuck her even if she begs me unless there was a pressing reason for her to not reply me.. Like she lost her phone, met with an accident etc. I'm even thinking of deleting her number but that would be reactive.

I posted this only to know what I did wrong. One possible lesson is, like you mentioned I should've persisted enough knowing that she's not going to stay here longer.

 

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That's your choice. I recall Chase once having to text/call a chick like 4-5 times before she responded and then they slept together. Depends how persistent you're willing to be. Wouldn't hurt to try, on the off chance you then sleep with her you might then get more Intel into why she didn't respond which might help you in the future.

 

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Sooo.. it was a shit test. We had planned to meet tonight and she waited until night to see if I double text her and she just now responded to my text saying "she slept well and had went out". She could've still texted wherever she was. Now I not sure what to do with her.

 

[Calibration]

I will leave her on read... I'll give her the taste of her own medicine

 

[Skills]

Could try this.

I don't know why I didn't persist tbh. Some of the reasons I remember are:
1. She seemed genuinely interested and didn't even think she'd ghost. This was the most important point. Sometimes her facial expressions are very authentic that you just trust her.
2. She had traveled yesterday and was tired and it was a valid reason for her to decline.
3. This is also something I come across from time to time. I fail to balance between coming across needy and being persistent. If she gives a reason which sounds legitimate and if I still persist, it'll come across needy. She said she was tired, wanted to buy groceries, phone charger etc.
However, I think all of these reasons were not very strong for me to not persist.
4. I myself was tired after work and I had spent 2.5 hrs talking to her. If I had to bring her home, escalate and fuck, would've been exhausting. So, thought it's better to do it today.
5. The last couple of girls who said will meet me later, did meet me. So, I didn't suspect that she'll ghost.

It's so easy to get into red pill mindset when they ghost. I'm feeling very pissed off today. If she had given a reason, it's still fine. I would've still felt bad but not as frustrating as being ghosted after having a good interaction. Feels like I learnt nothing from that cos I don't know where I fucked up as well. It's worse than a rejection when you approach cos you know the girl wasn't into you but this feels like deception.

next time this happened the double text is just a "?" or "???" very low effort ping if she did not respond to a question like in this case... also you need to give them time brah... as you correctly diagnose they are testing if you will lose your shit quintuplo text and get needy...

 

[Skills]

I will leave her on read... I'll give her the taste of her own medicine

no! next time just go "k" this will drive them crazy...

 

[Will_V]

Should have persisted on the date, she got very warm with all the sex talk and you didn't seal the deal, now she's cold.

Sex talk is a bit like kissing, it's a form of escalation, and once the escalation train starts it either gets to the final station or goes off the rails.

Don't blame her, this is how women behave when they get the female equivalent of 'blue balls' - i.e. their defenses are penetrated but there's no conclusion. This makes them feel like you are not a strong leader. This is probably why she wanted your number etc because she got attached to the idea of getting intimate with you and wanted to be connected, but then reflecting later she just felt weird because nothing happened.

Hard to say what you could do now, but personally what I would try is something like:

'hey sorry I couldn't have you over before, was super tired from work .. we should do drinks at mine later this week tho, do you like wine" or something like that.

Frame it as it having been a circumstantial issue rather than a choice of hers, and that you had decided that it wasn't going to happen (which in a way was true, since you didn't persist) but now you realize it made her feel bad and you're going to fix it by leading.

At least that's a better option than playing passive aggressive games, which girls virtually never lose.

 

[Calibration]

no! next time just go "k" this will drive them crazy...

Should have persisted on the date, she got very warm with all the sex talk and you didn't seal the deal, now she's cold.

Sex talk is a bit like kissing, it's a form of escalation, and once the escalation train starts it either gets to the final station or goes off the rails.

Don't blame her, this is how women behave when they get the female equivalent of 'blue balls' - i.e. their defenses are penetrated but there's no conclusion. This makes them feel like you are not a strong leader. This is probably why she wanted your number etc because she got attached to the idea of getting intimate with you and wanted to be connected, but then reflecting later she just felt weird because nothing happened.

Hard to say what you could do now, but personally what I would try is something like:

'hey sorry I couldn't have you over before, was super tired from work .. we should do drinks at mine later this week tho, do you like wine" or something like that.

Frame it as it having been a circumstantial issue rather than a choice of hers, and that you had decided that it wasn't going to happen (which in a way was true, since you didn't persist) but now you realize it made her feel bad and you're going to fix it by leading.

At least that's a better option than playing passive aggressive games, which girls virtually never lose.

I think I'll use both of your suggestions. First I'll send k and if she responds and sounds apologetic, then I'll use your suggestion @Will_V

 

[Calibration]

Should have persisted on the date, she got very warm with all the sex talk and you didn't seal the deal, now she's cold.

Sex talk is a bit like kissing, it's a form of escalation, and once the escalation train starts it either gets to the final station or goes off the rails.

Don't blame her, this is how women behave when they get the female equivalent of 'blue balls' - i.e. their defenses are penetrated but there's no conclusion. This makes them feel like you are not a strong leader. This is probably why she wanted your number etc because she got attached to the idea of getting intimate with you and wanted to be connected, but then reflecting later she just felt weird because nothing happened.

I'm running into a weird problem. If I do sex talk and not bounce home, it happens like above but if I don't do sex talk, then it's again not likely I'll meet her cos she's not intrigued and stimulated enough to meet me again. Unless I can bounce home immediately, it's not helping me much. I met a few girls the past couple of days and didn't do any sex talk but they didn't meet me. What can I do about this?

 

[Skills]

I'm running into a weird problem. If I do sex talk and not bounce home, it happens like above but if I don't do sex talk, then it's again not likely I'll meet her cos she's not intrigued and stimulated enough to meet me again. Unless I can bounce home immediately, it's not helping me much. I met a few girls the past couple of days and didn't do any sex talk but they didn't meet me. What can I do about this?

yeah as you can see by your own field test, it does not make a difference, i have done it and bang the girl in a second encounter, when the lay is not there a second times multiple times....

How to increase your chances if the lay is not there on the meet

Disclaimer.- this will be a long comprehensive post but it will totally help you big time, so read it and understand it... Most of the dudes including seducers are still living in the wrong century, or flat out they are not out there gaming or are pretty much kj, because i really don't...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Will_V]

I'm running into a weird problem. If I do sex talk and not bounce home, it happens like above but if I don't do sex talk, then it's again not likely I'll meet her cos she's not intrigued and stimulated enough to meet me again. Unless I can bounce home immediately, it's not helping me much. I met a few girls the past couple of days and didn't do any sex talk but they didn't meet me. What can I do about this?

IMO you should always do sex talk and try to escalate as much as possible on dates, unless you know 100% it can't go down in which case it may be a good idea to turn the heat down just a little (I usually just go full steam anyway and whatever happens happens, if there's one thing that I regret the most it's not turning a girl on enough who might have been down).

Going by your original post, it's likely that the problem is that you are not maintaining any tension after the first date. Texting her "cute leopard did you sleep well etc" is very boyfriendy and fuzzy duzzy and offers no challenge. Women always know when you wanted something and didn't get it (which is what happened) and she probably felt like you were just going to do whatever she asked for to get the hookup and weren't going to give her anything to bite onto.

The two best ways to maintain tension when you mess things up and fail to get compliance imo are:
- Make fun of her in a lighthearted way
- Be pushy (but not needy)

Both of these communicate "I'm not going to fall into your frame". The former is good when there is negative tension (such as if you push too hard, failed to read signals and made her feel uncomfortable etc, since it communicates lightheartedness and lack of desperation) and the latter is good when she's just not doing a good enough job of complying and rising to the occasion.

Both responses communicate to her 'you aren't doing your part' which is always a good frame to have when a girl fails to comply (even if it was your fault) and you feel forced to start chasing and falling into her frame because you can't see any other way forward.

The art of getting past a mistake with girls is the art of forgiving her for a mistake she didn't make lol

In the 'be pushy' scenario, I think the best way is to simply advance things forward (onto the next date) rapidly with little investment, sending her a message that doesn't give her any clear positive or negative feedback, as if you are getting bored. Short message, focused on logistics, make a joke or lighthearted comment if it comes to mind but not trying to 'reestablish rapport', just act as if she already agreed to go out again and it's just a matter of details. You are basically taking the cheque to the bank at this point, she'll either feel compelled to agree if she's invested, or make an excuse or ghost if it's already blown.

This is the way I look at it, I don't like texting and trying to rebuild rapport over text with a girl whose pussy has gone cold is not something I'm interested in wasting my time on.

 

[Calibration]

yeah as you can see by your own field test, it does not make a difference, i have done it and bang the girl in a second encounter, when the lay is not there a second times multiple times....

How to increase your chances if the lay is not there on the meet

Disclaimer.- this will be a long comprehensive post but it will totally help you big time, so read it and understand it... Most of the dudes including seducers are still living in the wrong century, or flat out they are not out there gaming or are pretty much kj, because i really don't...

www.skilledseducer.com

Thanks @Skills for sharing the post, its just what I needed. I have a few points to discuss about that post and some things that I have been experiencing but doing so would be diverting from this topic. So, I'll create a new post.

IMO you should always do sex talk and try to escalate as much as possible on dates, unless you know 100% it can't go down in which case it may be a good idea to turn the heat down just a little (I usually just go full steam anyway and whatever happens happens, if there's one thing that I regret the most it's not turning a girl on enough who might have been down).

After I read this, I went out today I tried exactly this but didn't seem to help. I'm going to explain this in the new post I'm going to post soon.

Going by your original post, it's likely that the problem is that you are not maintaining any tension after the first date. Texting her "cute leopard did you sleep well etc" is very boyfriendy and fuzzy duzzy and offers no challenge. Women always know when you wanted something and didn't get it (which is what happened) and she probably felt like you were just going to do whatever she asked for to get the hookup and weren't going to give her anything to bite onto.

You make a very good point. I kinda agree with you. I'd like to know what @Skills thinks about that. Will explain it in detail in the other post.

The two best ways to maintain tension when you mess things up and fail to get compliance imo are:
- Make fun of her in a lighthearted way
- Be pushy (but not needy)

Both of these communicate "I'm not going to fall into your frame". The former is good when there is negative tension (such as if you push too hard, failed to read signals and made her feel uncomfortable etc, since it communicates lightheartedness and lack of desperation) and the latter is good when she's just not doing a good enough job of complying and rising to the occasion.

Both responses communicate to her 'you aren't doing your part' which is always a good frame to have when a girl fails to comply (even if it was your fault) and you feel forced to start chasing and falling into her frame because you can't see any other way forward.

The art of getting past a mistake with girls is the art of forgiving her for a mistake she didn't make lol

Would you mind explaining this last sentence more in detail? I perhaps can tell you how I fall into the chasing frame and how I avoided that today but still failed.

In the 'be pushy' scenario, I think the best way is to simply advance things forward (onto the next date) rapidly with little investment, sending her a message that doesn't give her any clear positive or negative feedback, as if you are getting bored. Short message, focused on logistics, make a joke or lighthearted comment if it comes to mind but not trying to 'reestablish rapport', just act as if she already agreed to go out again and it's just a matter of details. You are basically taking the cheque to the bank at this point, she'll either feel compelled to agree if she's invested, or make an excuse or ghost if it's already blown.

This is the way I look at it, I don't like texting and trying to rebuild rapport over text with a girl whose pussy has gone cold is not something I'm interested in wasting my time on.

I tend to agree with this but I have a few questions around this. Will explain in detail in the post that I'm creating now.