Girl hurting my reputation

[Kaida]

Today I’ve learned that the warning to “not fwb people in social circle” is definitely a warning to heed. This may get bad

A month ago I had my first time with a girl (FB) in my social circle. We’re both teenagers. FB definitely gave clear consent by sending me her address, putting my dick back in when it slipped out, etc. I still have those messages as proof if it ever gets legal, but thats not my worry.

The worry is about preventing rumors from spreading and my rep being ruined, and this leading to an FRA if this escalates.


I’m aware of how sensitive girls may be after sex. So even tho the sex was terrible (I came after literally the first stroke lol) and rushed because of time, I texted FB saying it was good, and that next time we just need more time. She replied with “for sure”.

A few days later I texted her asking to hang out on Saturday. FB ignored.

She came off as the heavy avoidant type anyway so I really just left her be. She wasn’t giving any signs of wanting to try again, and i understand bc of how bad it was. I just wanted to use her as sex practice so I wasn’t thinking much of it. We havent fucked more than that one time.

We met a few times in person after this. I just greeted her with a hug like I do with every girl , said whats up like normal. FB didn’t seem particularly warmer to me. Didn’t want to make it a big deal if she wasn’t, so I treated her like any other girl.

Fast forward to earlier today, all the teens in the church were sitting together listening. Meanwhile me and this different girl who likes me were flirting pretty hard all service. I could catch FB looking at me pretty hard out the corner of my eye but didnt look back and just continued flirting.

This must have hit her some type of way, because after service she started ranting to my friend (thank God it wasn’t someone random) about how I‘m weird and keep hitting on girls in church, and that I even “tried” to hit on her too. Even my guy friend admitted it came off as jealous.

FB also told this 20yo college dude the same thing - who she hangs with all the time (who from the looks of it she probably fucked too, he’s kinda a weirdo) - that I be touching her and shit. This college dude then took my brother aside to tell him that I’m touching on girls.


Maybe it’s my game, or the fact that I don’t be making girls feel special enough, but theres always a recurring theme of girls liking me and me escalating fast to a good point, but either due to them giving some resistance or me losing interest I do a takeaway and just stop talking to them.

Then the interest they (very obviously) had slowly turns into them calling me a weirdo, even though I did nothing between those times to trigger that change of heart.

Spoiler: Examples

Examples so you don’t think I’m biased:

(My job, my church, and my school are somewhat connected by the way. All those places are close so they have some of the same ppl.)

Girl#1: I met her at my job. She came up to and started touching me a lot. I touched her a lot to, escalating to touching her waist and butt. By the end of the shift I had asked her out and exchanged numbers. Suddenly when I soft close she brings up a boyfriend, which i slip past. I then just continue flirting with her, but since I didn’t see it going anywhere - she brought the boyfriend back up and wasn’t budging - so I just stopped texting her. Now shes calling me a weirdo and said I was touching her to both her friends and my guy friends even tho I have proof of her flirting with me.


Girl #2: Not that cute. Didn’t meet her in person, only instagram. She messaged me first calling me cute. We then had a text conversation where the chase frame was heavily in my favor, as I was rating her pickup lines and stuff and she was qualifying a lot. Very sexual, and nearly-explicitly stated that when we meet up we’re gonna fuck. Got to the point where she sent me her address. But, atp I wasn’t motivated to drive over there to fuck a mid girl so I didn’t text back. Now she started telling her friends i was weird and “got sexual with her” even tho it was clearly mutual, if not even more from her. This made it to my friends as well.

There are more but this is all I can remember rn

This news is also making me look bad social proof-wise to my friends. Because even though I have the messages to show and a good reason for each girl, the fact that it keeps repeating makes me look bad, and may make it so they don’t believe in me enough to back me up if this really escalates.


This isnt good man. What can I do?

 

[Conquistador]

Honestly?

For starters, you should probably stop gaming in SC until you know what you're doing.

You also need to screen girls a little more. Consent might be good enough for the law, but as a seducer, you have a duty not to hurt a girl.

I just wanted to use her as sex practice so I wasn’t thinking much of it.

I don't blame you at all honestly, but you ****ed up spectacularly here on multiple counts.

See, girls your age think very differently about sex than guys. On top of that, they also mature emotionally at very different rates.

Not all girls your age can handle casual sex emotionally. While I don't advocate using words like "slut" except for girls who literally volunteer to host an entire frat party between their legs in a chain, you want to stick to girls who are just a bit "slutty". And calibrate carefully until you know how a girl feels about sex.
(Also, society pressures teenage girls to sexualize themselves, so don't judge a book by its cover. That girl with the mascara and the backless dress might be "waiting until marriage" for now. I don't have enough firsthand experience to tell you what the actual naughty girls dress like, but I think it's safe to say that often they blend in a little more.)

Try to see it from this girl's perspective. She probably got a hormone-fueled s***storm of emotions in her head from that encounter.

Don't be too hard on yourself. Just use it as a learning experience.

And to be honest, if you want sex, don't try to get it by gaming random girls. Pick your targets. If you can stomach it, be a little submissive and seek out experienced girls to teach you.

(When I say experienced, I specifically mean girls with a slightly more mature perspective. Girls who act like college students. The girl you laid might have had ten guys before, but even so, she probably doesn't know what she's doing any better than you do.)

As for the rest, grow a thicker skin and don't overthink your interactions. It sounds like you may possibly have some authenticity issues.

One last thing. Don't try too hard to use tech. Work on your fundamentals, increase your luck surface, be patient with yourself, and learn game from your daily experiences, not from articles.

P. S. Find places online or in the wider world outside your SC to get lots of practice in with sexual banter. Also, while it's your choice whether or not to get into older women (based on my recent experiences, I'd say just make sure they're stable and at least 35), definitely flirt with them whenever you can get away with it. Even better, ask them honest questions about sex. So long as you talk like an honestly curious boy and not an immature horn dog, they'll be happy to teach you what they know, at least verbally.

 

[Will_V]

Dude I understand you're just learning this stuff but you are being very uncalibrated in the way that you deal with these girls.

You are bringing them to a point of extreme vulnerability (being ready for sex or having sex, and putting their reputations on the line) and then just cutting the thread. This makes them feel betrayed and taken advantage of, and that can quickly turn into vindictiveness.

Compounded onto this is the issue of congruence - when you demonstrate skill in dealing with obstacles directly related to sex but a lack of ability to connect and communicate and handle her emotions, and there is no other part of your identity that would account for this (e.g. coming off as a 'bad boy' stereotype) guess what, it makes girls and people generally suspicious as to what kind of guy you are. It looks as if you are presenting two different sides, and that at least one of them is a mask.

As much as this is a seduction forum, I've come to the realization that a lot of the information that flows around in these kind of spaces lacks balancing context and is frankly not what a lot of guys really need. That's part of the reason why I spend so much time talking about tangential topics of masculinity, because I can easily smell the lack of perspective in many of the posts that come in on a regular basis, the same way that women can easily smell a guy who doesn't know where he is but is pretending he does. And that's the kind of smell that this girl is smelling on you right now, and it's fuelling her negative emotions.

Seduction is a powerful tool, it can hurt girls and blow up in your face when not used properly, and 100x more so in social circle. Charging around in your own social circle acting like you're in a clay pigeon contest, blowing past boyfriend resistance and dropping leads left and right, is really going to backfire at some point, hard.

For social circle, I suggest you spend a lot more time learning about the female nature (not just in terms of seduction), improving your platonic relationships and friendships with girls, and learning how to attract them indirectly. And focus on bars, clubs and parties for more direct stuff.

I don't have experience dealing with this kind of reputation issue, but I think the best approach generally (as I believe Chase has mentioned at other times) is to try and talk to her as honestly and openly as possible and get her on the same side as you are. When a woman throws you under the bus, almost always it's because she thinks you're about to (or already have, or even just would have) done the same with her, and I can see multiple cases in your post where her having that perspective makes sense.

Slow down, open your eyes, understand what is going on around you, and make intelligent moves, before it's too late.

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

Your case is EXTREMELY similar to what I used to experience. And everything @Will_V said is correct...

When you take girls to that point of vulnerability whether that's a make out, blow job, fingering or sex... and you pull back or cut off they get resentful and vindictive. In fact, you don't even have to get to that point. Showing interest, getting her aroused and interested then backing away is enough to get her resentgul or feel betrayed. And Will's explanations were spot on.

This is very bad in social circles or like in my case a very small campus that rumours fly easily. And trust these girls to add lies, salt and pepper to spice it up and make the rumours more dramatic

@Chase has some articles on fixing this that I learnt(probably the only one I've seen talking about this). Best way is to ignore for a while then be warm, genuine and honest with her. In my case and yours, the lack of emotional connection and genuineness is the cause of it. Like Will says, the process makes them feel betrayed.

Your best is to use warmth and genuineness to win her over to your side and let people see this happening. Because no matter what you tell others, people will generally believe a woman's word over yours. So they should be aware either through her words or what they see, that things are getting better.

For next time though, for social circles, be very careful and selective with your targets. be indirect, and be slower than you would in cold approach as much as possible. (Unless there's a golden rare opportunity to strike like a party or something. And even then still be careful)

Like @Will_V said the seduction community promotes this bad boy bang a lot of chics vibe. Without the appropriate balance needed. And in social circles this balance must be applied. I learned the hard way with a similar story like yours.

 

[Conquistador]

In fact, you don't even have to get to that point. Showing interest, getting her aroused and interested then backing away is enough to get her resentgul or feel betrayed.

Oops. I've been a complete idiot for months.

Thank you for showing me the #1 problem with my game.

Bloody hell.

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

Oops. I've been a complete idiot for months.

Thank you for showing me the #1 problem with my game.

Bloody hell.

It's more of an attainability/auto rejection/missing escalation windows problem... all three are linked together

In one article where @Chase said "if you haven't fiixed your attainability you have a big hole in your game" after reading i knew what was wrong in some of my interactions. Now my game is much tighter

 

[POB]

To the OP:
Own your shit!

This is clearly a situtation where YOU led her to sex, YOU cut contact with her, YOU left her standing and YOU started to seduce another girl in front of her right after it. She had no clue if you would slut shame her to your whole social circle. In her head she was "just another lay".

How to fix it:
1) forget talking through third parties,...go straight to her and say you have something important to say;
2) be very clear that you think sex was not what you expected, and take your share of the blame (if she wants to put all the blame on you, say you don't agree, but move on quickly). Say you were nervous because it was your first time together with her;
3) make it a priority to let her know you care about her reputation. Ideally you should have done it in the first stages of seduction, before having sex, but now you are in damage control. Say you care about her not only as a woman, but also as a person, and you just wanna make sure she is ok with everything that happened. Even if you guys decide to keep it going as friends, or completely cut contact, say you have cherished getting to know her a little better and wish her the best.

 

[Kaida]

For social circle, I suggest you spend a lot more time learning about the female nature (not just in terms of seduction), improving your platonic relationships and friendships with girls, and learning how to attract them indirectly. And focus on bars, clubs and parties for more direct stuff.

I think I found my problem in my perception of relationships with girls.

I hated the friend zone, even with girls I don’t even like. In middle & early high school, I’d see guys who had girl friends they werent trying anything with as pretty gay. I saw them as suckers who let women use their high friend value for nothing in return. I unconsciously vowed to never be that guy.

Cuz my mindset was to not have a substantial relationship with a girl unless it’s to flirt with them or try to fuck, I saw no value in them beyond that. I felt tooled being in a friendship with a girl because it felt like they were leeching value off me. I was always either flirting with a girl trying to lead it to something or ignoring a girl regardless of if I actually like them.

This likely produced a lack of regard for their emotions outside of the context of our sexual relationship. Likely the reason I have almost 0 girls I can call my actual friends, and not just acquaintances.

This is also likely the reason I pulled the trigger and/or cut the girls off too fast in social circle. Once I get what I want, or don’t think I can, my mind goes “welp, nothing else I can use her for” and just dip.

I’ve definitely softened up unintentionally the past few months, as I’ve been hanging around girls more and seeing that some of them provide platonic value by being actually funny or fun to talk to. But I still feel that nagging voice saying that I gotta try something with them, or else I’m not getting value out of this.

Is this necessarily wrong? What do I do about it?


P.S @POB Thanks for the advice man. I talked to that girl on the phone for a short ~4 mins just letting her know I care about her reputation and wont ever leak it. She seemed appreciative and like she believed me. I’m seeing her tomorrow through social circle so we’ll see

 

[Will_V]

I think I found my problem in my perception of relationships with girls.

I hated the friend zone, even with girls I don’t even like. In middle & early high school, I’d see guys who had girl friends they werent trying anything with as pretty gay. I saw them as suckers who let women use their high friend value for nothing in return. I unconsciously vowed to never be that guy.

Cuz my mindset was to not have a substantial relationship with a girl unless it’s to flirt with them or try to fuck, I saw no value in them beyond that. I felt tooled being in a friendship with a girl because it felt like they were leeching value off me. I was always either flirting with a girl trying to lead it to something or ignoring a girl regardless of if I actually like them.

This likely produced a lack of regard for their emotions outside of the context of our sexual relationship. Likely the reason I have almost 0 girls I can call my actual friends, and not just acquaintances.

This is also likely the reason I pulled the trigger and/or cut the girls off too fast in social circle. Once I get what I want, or don’t think I can, my mind goes “welp, nothing else I can use her for” and just dip.
I’ve definitely softened up unintentionally the past few months, as I’ve been hanging around girls more and seeing that some of them provide platonic value by being actually funny or fun to talk to. But I still feel that nagging voice saying that I gotta try something with them, or else I’m not getting value out of this.

Is this necessarily wrong? What do I do about it?


P.S @POB Thanks for the advice man. I talked to that girl on the phone for a short ~4 mins just letting her know I care about her reputation and wont ever leak it. She seemed appreciative and like she believed me. I’m seeing her tomorrow through social circle so we’ll see

Sounds like you're confusing a couple of different things. It's one thing to only want girls in your life in sexual capacity, it's entirely another to decide to cut them off abruptly when they don't seem interested or give you a mildly hard time.
...
Personally, I don't really have female friends and I see things much the same way you described - if I'm not flirting or on the way to the bedroom, I'm really not all that interested in spending time with her. Conversations with girls are generally silly conversations about emotional topics that go all over the place, there needs to be physicality and flirting if I'm not to get bored quickly.

This is normal, even women are aware of this and it makes them more sensitive to the difference - polarity - between a man and a woman. That's part of the reason why women lose attraction to guys who pretend to like chit chatting about whatever all day like her friends do. She expects a guy to want to talk guy stuff with other dudes and to get bored with her nonsense. Now there's a caveat to that which is that a woman is attracted to a guy who knows how to use conversation to make her feel good, aroused and intimate, but part of that is the cheeky, playful, teasing, flirting vibe that reminds her that ultimately he's leading her somewhere and it's all about sex.

There is also the authority figure aspect that creates a good male-female dynamic even when there is not a lot of flirting - where you make sure you lead the conversation, demonstrate your confidence and competence with things, and give her guidance and gentle nudges in the 'right direction' when she has some kind of issue. This is very useful for more subtle attraction with girls in social circle (as it also helps with status), it can be enjoyable on its own if it suits your personality, and it is good as well as for maintaining a good dynamic with women you don't actually want to bang such as family and relations.
...

Now cutting a girl off when she doesn't play ball is something else entirely. Because even if you don't want to spend hours talking platonically to some girl where things have fizzled out, you still have to understand their position in society. Girls are the more vulnerable species, having sex involves being taken to bed and penetrated by a big strong dude with no one around to help if things go wrong. Now obviously that can be very exciting and fun for them when it goes well, but you can see that the whole event and the buildup to it can easily cause a lot of anxiety and rollercoaster emotions, partly because the whole process of submitting to a man begins well before the sex act, and if somewhere along the line it all goes wrong, she has to somehow reverse that submission in her own mind, which can involve very defensive actions and behavior.

That means that when things don't work out for the seduction, you have to always smooth things over and show that you still like her and all that stuff, especially if you will likely run into her again very soon.

So it's not about pretending to want to talk with her until the end of time, it's just about letting her down gently, showing her you understand, and making her feel like you will always like her no matter what. For me, that comes naturally, I enjoy seeing contented, happy girls. Maybe it's because I've never been bitter toward women, I don't see them as my equal so I don't have huge expectations that can be disappointed. What does it cost me to make sure she feels good after meeting me, regardless of whether she goes to bed with me? I'd rather throw a little goodwill out there and maybe she will even be disappointed in herself - but that doesn't mean I'm going to chase!

 

[POB]

P.S @POB Thanks for the advice man. I talked to that girl on the phone for a short ~4 mins just letting her know I care about her reputation and wont ever leak it. She seemed appreciative and like she believed me. I’m seeing her tomorrow through social circle so we’ll see

Great!
When you see her, be socially nice and act like it's water under the bridge.
If you were more advanced, I would even suggest some secret society frames to flip her to your side again as a FB.
But I think it's best to leave it as it is.
Keep us posted.

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

Great!
When you see her, be socially nice and act like it's water under the bridge.
If you were more advanced, I would even suggest some secret society frames to flip her to your side again as a FB.
But I think it's best to leave it as it is.
Keep us posted.

Hey @POB The secret society frames caught my eye...

Do you mean like telling her to keep things low key between the both of you?

 

[Conquistador]

Do you mean like telling her to keep things low key between the both of you?

I'm pretty sure real members don't need to say so in as many words. There are many ways of conveying messages and meanings.

 

[Kaida]

There is also the authority figure aspect that creates a good male-female dynamic even when there is not a lot of flirting - where you make sure you lead the conversation, demonstrate your confidence and competence with things, and give her guidance and gentle nudges in the 'right direction' when she has some kind of issue. This is very useful for more subtle attraction with girls in social circle (as it also helps with status), it can be enjoyable on its own if it suits your personality, and it is good as well as for maintaining a good dynamic with women you don't actually want to bang such as family and relations.

I think this really was the missing key. I knew just chatting with them wasn’t good at all for attraction, but I didn’t know how else to handle a girl I wasn’t messing with.

In my mind it was either:
1. Chat like a friend and lose attraction
2. Flirt and lead with the hopes of it going somewhere.

If it seemed like it wasn’t going anywhere (especially in social circle, where pushing too far could be dangerous) I cut them off so I wouldn’t lose that attraction. It’s happened many many times where I’d do this and they’d come back more compliant and attracted a while later.

I’m happy you gave a new way I can preserve that attraction without me being so cold.

 

[Kaida]

Great!
When you see her, be socially nice and act like it's water under the bridge.
If you were more advanced, I would even suggest some secret society frames to flip her to your side again as a FB.
But I think it's best to leave it as it is.
Keep us posted.

She’s warmer now, and seems somewhat submissive and open to fucking again, but is still throwing up some resistance and tests. I want to continue as well, but I want to lock us in to heavily minimize chances of this leaking.

Any advice on how to proceed?

 

[Conquistador]

She’s warmer now, and seems somewhat submissive and open to fucking again, but is still throwing up some resistance and tests. I want to continue as well, but I want to lock us in to heavily minimize chances of this leaking.

Any advice on how to proceed?

Build more rapport, express empathy, treat her as an FwB (emphasis on friend) rather than an f***doll, turn her on, have strong frames, lead her...

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

I'm pretty sure real members don't need to say so in as many words. There are many ways of conveying messages and meanings.

Hey bro... i dont understand what you mean here. Please can you explain better

 

[Will_V]

I think this really was the missing key. I knew just chatting with them wasn’t good at all for attraction, but I didn’t know how else to handle a girl I wasn’t messing with.

In my mind it was either:
1. Chat like a friend and lose attraction
2. Flirt and lead with the hopes of it going somewhere.

If it seemed like it wasn’t going anywhere (especially in social circle, where pushing too far could be dangerous) I cut them off so I wouldn’t lose that attraction. It’s happened many many times where I’d do this and they’d come back more compliant and attracted a while later.

I’m happy you gave a new way I can preserve that attraction without me being so cold.

Good to hear!

It's important not to make too many assumptions early on about what works and doesn't work, or get too wrapped up in avoiding doing the 'wrong thing'. I can see you learned a lot from self reflection and your own experiences here and that's a lot better than any other kind of learning. Don't be afraid to make mistakes or even to go too far in correcting them, as long as you pay attention to the truth and enjoy things no matter what, and avoid just trying to protect the ego, as we all instinctively want to do, you'll always be on the right track.