Expectations Girl resisting a one sided open relationship

[Will_V]

What's the best strategy to get a girl who says she would not be willing to share me to change her mind? What are the odds that it'll succeed?

I met this girl 6 months ago. At first very slowly, and then we started seeing each other more and more. Only 3 months ago did we sleep together for the first time, which was probably like the 10th date or something. Reason it took so long is she had trust issues and fear of abandonment after some bad relationships and was looking for something stable, and I was patient because I was sleeping with other girls.

Since then we've been apart for 1.5 months while I was travelling, so let's say we've spent 1.5 months together since sex. Honestly, it's great. First girl in years I could see in my life indefinitely. However, it won't be sustainable if I must be exclusive.

Pretty quickly after first sex she started bringing up a relationship. At first I deflected, but she kept bringing it up. When I eventually gave in to having that conversation, it went something like this (much much abbreviated)


She really liked the being boyfriend/girlfriend part, but didn't like the me sleeping with other girls part. She said that's something she couldn't do and if I slept with anyone else it'd end our relationship. No chance of agreement that day, so we agreed to continue the conversation another day. She asked that if I sleep with someone else to please tell her. The insinuation is that she'd end the relationship if I do. Btw she'd told me before she's the jealous type.

That's totally fine for an initial reaction - my approach was to prolong the discussion as much as possible over weeks or months, and let her come to me with time.

A few days later she told me me she'd been thinking about it and it's really been bothering her. We discussed it some more. I explained to her how it wouldn't change my feelings for her because men and women are different, evolution, kings have always had many women, etc. No resolution, but more stuff for her to ponder. We talked about it again another day, where we went even deeper and she told me that she's open minded and willing to learn from me, but at the same time can't imagine being with me if I sleep with other girls. Maybe if I'm out of the country for months, but not if it's just a few weeks' vacation and definitely not if I'm in the same city as her. She would feel like she doesn't fulfill me and wouldn't understand why I'm with her. I explained again that men and women are different and while for her as a women that's true, men don't get attached in the same way. She didn't accept it. I told her it's totally fine, I don't want to teach her or convince her or force her to do anything. I know about her abandonment issues and that this is very different from what she's used to, and I just want to fulfill her and maybe she'll feel differently when she feels more and more valued and secure with me. Another day she brought it up. This time she started crying that it's really bothering her and she knows she told me she's open minded and is willing to learn, but she takes it back and she can't do it. I consoled her and we were good for that day. She asked again that if I sleep with someone else to please tell her.

Meanwhile I haven't been sleeping with other girls, but it's been due to chance. I dropped the fuck buddies I wasn't really into because what's the point when I have her. I had 1 fuck buddy I would've kept, but shortly after starting to sleep with this girl, the fuck buddy dropped me. Since then I've met more girls, but I'm being very selective and also work has been crazy. So I've brought 2 girls home, but didn't manage to sleep with them.

So, what's my best path forward? I can only delay for so long - at some point she'll ask for a definitive answer. Also at some point I will sleep with someone else, at which point I'd be semi-lying if I didn't tell her since she asked me to.

She's crazy about me and I think she knows she can't replace me, so I have leverage. I'm also crazy about her so I want to find a way to make it work. Is it possible to convince a girl who feels this way?

Although this forum tends to come from a perspective of pickup and FWB, the principles guys are telling you about frame control are true.

You've been given a lot of stuff to think about, so I'll just talk about one thing. You say you want to keep things undefined. That's what a guy should do - until the girl asks for clarification. The point is that she is must come to negotiate with you, not the other way around.

But once she starts negotiating for the relationship, you have no choice but to define things clearly, unless you want a moody, bipolar and jealous girlfriend. This is necessary for her to maintain the right kind of respect for you - not simply the respect given to a man who dominates her emotions but who is able to be the leader in the relationship.

Something Chase mentions a lot which I have incorporated successfully into my relationships is to always give your girl clear choices and let her decide - don't decide for her, and don't give 'false' options that will either be retracted or changed. The crucial thing is that you give her the chance to say a clear 'no'. This is the definition of being able to walk away, and she knows it. If you can't do that, she knows your perspective can be changed - and it probably will too. And if it can't, she'll just end up an emotional mess.

I've never had an open relationship myself, in the past I've been fine spending my excess energy on my work and hobbies. I will probably try it in the next one though. But something I have heard that makes a lot of sense, which I will certainly test, is to find a special thing that you will only do for her - like eating together, cuddling, whatever, something that indicates a level of commitment and closeness - and mark that as what ranks her above other girls (and stick to it too). That way she can point her finger and say "ah the other girls don't get that, only me". Exactly how you would bring this up and lay it out I'm not sure - sometimes you've just got to try! But the psychological implication is important - it puts a boundary to her wild imagination of you falling in love with other girls, giving them the world, and leaving her behind.

Anyway, it does sound like this relationship is at odds with how you want to live your life, and it may be that you won't be able to sway her. But if she's going to bounce, better that it be from saying 'no' to a guy who lays it on the line, than a slow losing of respect for a guy who can't make up his mind.

 

[determined]

Thank you guys! I definitely have a path forward now and realize some of my mistakes.

I think the biggest one is giving too freely. Because I wanted to give away certain things, I gave them quickly and for free, and so all I'm left to negotiate with are things I don't want to give away. She should feel a huge win that I even entertained her asking to be my girlfriend. Even if I'm very happy giving that to her, I need to have her work for it so she understands how valuable it is and wouldn't think that anything more than that would be on the table. Next time she brings up exclusivity, I'm going to rewind the relationship a bit and tell her that listen, you can still be the girl who's most special to me, this can still be a stable long term thing, and you can still call yourself my girlfriend. However, if I'm going to give that to you, here's how it works and here's what I want.

I see what you are saying about her being the one trying to lock it down. She is the one pursuing you, ultimately. Or so it would seem. Although, the history of you pursuing her for a period of months before sex occurred (am I correct here? Has she been the one pursuing you the whole time, or only after you two had sex?) adds another complex layer to the dynamic.

She was always pursuing me a bit more than I was her. After sex a lot more. It's true I was patient with sex, but I just don't think it's that big a deal. Most of our "dates" were just hanging out at my place, she knew I was sleeping with other girls and didn't need her, etc. Using Chase's framework, I had very high value and due to that low attainability, and therefore she was scared to sleep with me. Me "pursuing" was really just giving her time to get more comfortable.

Why exactly does this bother her? Specifics. Not something wishy-washy and vague.

She'd feel like she doesn't fulfill me, which would hit at her self esteem. I think this problem will go away if I fix the above. Her self esteem should be through the roof that I'm even entertaining her asking to be my girlfriend.

But once she starts negotiating for the relationship, you have no choice but to define things clearly, unless you want a moody, bipolar and jealous girlfriend.

Yup, a moody bipolar girl is what I have . I messed up by not defining things clearly, and even before that I messed up by giving away things too easily.

 

[determined]

Update: I think we're good, but my frame has room for improvement to avoid drama in the future.

Next time she brought up my noncommitment, I told her more straight up that if she wants a relationship, that would mean she's monogamous and I'm not.

At first she cried and said we should part ways because we're looking for different things. Then we talked more and she was in a better mood and we had great sex. Then in the morning she said she had thought about it and she thinks she'd be open, but she has conditions. One of the conditions was that I only sleep with other girls while I'm traveling, which I told her kind of defeats the purpose for me. Then she was in a bad mood again and we had a few conversations about how, even if she could understand why I need to sleep with other girls, she can't understand why I would need that while we're in the same city and if I want sex all I need to do is give her a call. I did my best to talk her through it, though I don't think I did the best job. However, later that day she said she's down to try it. Since then I've tried to be very warm.

That was 3 days ago. Since then things have been almost smooth, except that she's brought up once or twice in passing that she still doesn't understand why I want to sleep with other girls. So I think there's room for improvement on my part to get her 100% on board.

Her point of view:
1. Doesn't understand why. If she fulfills me, why do I want to sleep with others? And if she doesn't fulfill me, then she'd feel quite bad and worry about losing me. I tried to explain to her that I have different needs, and while she can fill my need for connection, she can't fill my need to conquer and for variety. She takes my word for it, but doesn't really understand.
2. Is worried I'll eventually develop feelings for someone else and leave her. Her experience of sex with me is very intimate and connected. She's worried that if I share that with others, if I look at them they way I look at her, that eventually feelings could develop with someone else.

Honestly the reason I'm struggling to explain it to her is because I myself don't have it clear in my head. Her worries make sense. Any advice on how I should think about it?

 

[SGent]

D this is all about you. You have to decide do you want to have sex with multiple girls or be committed to one. If you can't decide than the answer is you are not committed to a monogamous relationship. You then need to grow some hair and stop seeing her completely. It is wrong to keep leading her on so you can keep having sex with her. She wants a committed relationship. Either commit to her or set her free so she can find someone else. BTW she is not bipolar. She is confused by your indecisiveness. She wants an exclusive relationship. The conflict will continue until you make a decision.

 

[determined]

Agree it's about me.

I do know what I want - it's not exclusivity. And I've told her that, which is why she swings b/w happy (when she enjoys being with me) and unhappy (when she remembers that I'm not all hers).

So I think I've been decisive. What I haven't been is a good communicator. OR, maybe as you're implying, could be that what she and I want is irreconcilable... I'm curious if anyone's had the experience of a girl who wanted a serious committed relationship ending up happy in a non-exclusive one.

 

[Beck Bass]

@determined you gotta figure out what you want and what's best for all of you.
My girl also was very much against sharing me, but she's changing her mind (I started dating her February of last year, so it can take quite some time, from my experience).
If a girl has high self steem, is rare that she'll agree on sharing you right away, mostly because of societal pressures, she doesn't want to seem weak or to be "abused" in the relationship (in the sense that you get what you want, and she doesn't get what she wants).

Me and my girl broke up twice because of that, and both times were really hard, because I was struggling. Struggling because I loved her so, so much, but also I couldn't see why she wouldn't allow me to "do my thing", specially since my sex drive is a lot higher than hers. But both times I broke up, and looking back, it was for the best. It was also on good terms, because, as I said, I really loved her, I explained everything I needed and wasn't quite happening to her, without hurting her, making sure she knows it's not her fault (other than her not being ready to accept me not being that monogamous).

So if pushed comes to shove, you have to be wiling to walk away. If you really wanna bang other girls, you gotta tell her and be real. She will respect you for it, even if she gets mad at first. And if you don't even like her that much, then just leave and be strong, become a better seducer and find a girl you really like.

By the end of the day I think most women don't care about you banging other chicks, is more about maybe you getting some other girl pregnant, passing STDs to her or what will other people say if they find out her man is "cheating" (even if she agrees, most people are quite a bunch of sad prudes, let's be real)

 

[determined]

@Beck Bass that's exactly right. Sounds like exactly my situation, thanks for sharing.

If a girl has high self steem, is rare that she'll agree on sharing you right away, mostly because of societal pressures, she doesn't want to seem weak or to be "abused" in the relationship (in the sense that you get what you want, and she doesn't get what she wants).

Yeah, I think that's close to what she's feeling. Mostly scared she'll get hurt, and also worried that she'd be devaluing herself by agreeing to be with an unfaithful man.

And if you don't even like her that much, then just leave and be strong, become a better seducer and find a girl you really like.

I do. You said you loved your girl, which in my case is quite a strong word esp this early, but I do feel better with her than I have with any other girl for years.

Good to know that your girl is coming around. Is she coming around as in "I don't get it and I don't like it, but I'll accept it even though it sometimes makes me unhappy," or is she 100% onboard and happy?

 

[Beck Bass]

is she 100% onboard and happy?

That's kinda hard to say, I mean, I only really banged another girl thus far and it was a random Wednesday night she was at her home, she also gave me a "free pass" to get with other girls when I was in another city. I think as long as I'm with her, my attention is hers, and her needs are met, she's golden, but I can see how others girls could get in the way. By the end of the day, you gonna have to sacrifice still being with other girls to be with her, because she's your main, it's never gonna be like being "full on single out hunting". That said, I think it's also fun to have this other challenge of seducing girls in those very specific time periods when she's not with me, and sometimes having the girl knowing I have a girlfriend and we are just having fun for the sake of fun gives me an ego boost as well hehe
For now were are doing pretty well, she seems happier than ever, but I won't be telling her what I do and with whom, unless she really wants to know. I wanna keep it shush, I had bad experiences oversharing too much about other girls with my ex (that I had an open LTR for 2 years with)