Drama Great Relationship turning into a nightmare - how honest should one be?

[Will_V]

@REM050 yeah, the letter idea is good - both as a way to be able to clarify things in your own mind without her being in your face, and also, as Skills pointed out, as a way to clarify to her things that are hard to say face to face without her getting defensive, like about her insecurity/trauma and lack of emotional control.

I would just say one thing: the way she's reacting right now is an emotional response, not a logical one. The way she's going beserk around you, that's an impulse coming straight out of her emotions, and logic will only have a limited effect. It's going to take some form of punishment/reward in-person and in the moment to deal with that, i.e. walk away from her or kick her out of your place when she's shouting, or if she's doing a good job of staying calm, tell her you appreciate it and love to see it, or if she keeps bringing up the same thing you've already said your piece about, refuse to engage. Etc.

That's why I mentioned before that the crucial thing right now is not to convince her directly of whether or not you will cheat, but to first convince her that she cannot roll over you - she cannot make you lie, she cannot make you change your relationships with other people simply for her sake, she cannot go beserk around you and get away with it, and she cannot provoke you emotionally. That is the foundation of her insecurity, that you are not a stable element that she can rely on to provide a strong, unchanging framework for her world. Only when you prove that to her can she start to properly respect you, and start to trust something other than the swirling emotions inside her.

 

[REM050]

Well said, Will. Still, for that to happen she needs to move first, in the sense that she accepts her response is her responsibility.

The second problem is that she backs her 'demands' up by referring to her culture or her beliefs, though neither her culture or her beliefs are absolute about these things. In the end I do feel it is all fear and fear for fear, not so much what I did or did not do anymore.

I'll do the letter thing first. Because that will either be the gateway to fixing what you describe in your third paragraph or the final nail to the coffin if she slams the door shut.

 

[Will_V]

Well said, Will. Still, for that to happen she needs to move first, in the sense that she accepts her response is her responsibility.

It would be ideal if that were to happen, but my experience is that a woman responds primarily to the concept she has of you, and only after that - if she is compelled by that concept - to the logic of your words and ideas.

I don't know to what extent you have repaired that concept, but the principle is that if she doesn't respect you, what you say may have a difficult time getting through.

Best of luck!

 

[REM050]

It would be ideal if that were to happen, but my experience is that a woman responds primarily to the concept she has of you, and only after that - if she is compelled by that concept - to the logic of your words and ideas.

I don't know to what extent you have repaired that concept, but the principle is that if she doesn't respect you, what you say may have a difficult time getting through.

Best of luck!

I think the respect is gone completely to be honest, but I will try one last effort.

This morning she dumped another bunch of messages on me, accusing me of buying my ex a certain gift (cream) but not her - even though she got a beautiful Italian handmade handbag and some very luxurious pieces of silk ánd wool to wear - that I went out for dinner with a friend I met traveling, but that she 'had to beg me for it' even though I cooked her really fancy meals many a time and we went out for dinner three times since this year started, how seeing someone casually for half a year two years ago is something she is uncertain of she can forgive me...

She just wants it all and everything that is not directed towards her is an insult or something. I don't know what to make of this, but I just can't take this seriously.

 

[Will_V]

@REM050 that's pretty wild.

how seeing someone casually for half a year two years ago is something she is uncertain of she can forgive me...

That was before you even met her right, is there any logic to this .. ?

I think the respect is gone completely to be honest, but I will try one last effort.

This morning she dumped another bunch of messages on me, accusing me of buying my ex a certain gift (cream) but not her - even though she got a beautiful Italian handmade handbag and some very luxurious pieces of silk ánd wool to wear - that I went out for dinner with a friend I met traveling, but that she 'had to beg me for it' even though I cooked her really fancy meals many a time and we went out for dinner three times since this year started, how seeing someone casually for half a year two years ago is something she is uncertain of she can forgive me...

She just wants it all and everything that is not directed towards her is an insult or something. I don't know what to make of this, but I just can't take this seriously.

I would say that buying gifts for an ex when you have a new girlfriend is crossing some kind of line, gifts are one of those things that women can put a lot of significance on. I had one girlfriend who absolutely loved gifts (I'm not really a gift-giving person so it was a pretty rare occasion!) and she would've gone bananas if I ever bought another girl something.

If I'm reading the rest right, she sounds completely irrational and in full meltdown mode.

My advice frankly would be to tell her that she's being completely unreasonable and she can talk with you when she's calmed down, and just cut contact until she approaches you in way you find acceptable. There's simply no way to get through to women when they have completely lost sense of reality like that. You have to make sure you don't let her turn every interaction with you into emotional venting, or she'll completely stop listening to you.

I'm pretty blunt when this sort of thing happens, I'll simply treat her and talk to her like a kid in a tantrum. I'll say something like "You're being completely irrational, there's no point talking with you right now. Let me know when you've calmed down." That sort of thing, as many times as it takes. It saves you a lot of emotional energy when you just go ahead and handle her in the moment like that. She'll try and come back a few times with something to provoke me, I just don't respond, and a couple days later suddenly she's talking in a normal tone of voice, holding down her emotions, and then I can speak and be heard. And we talk things over, item by item. And if she blows up again, repeat the process.

 

[Skills]

Remm ypu need to soft nextcyt all contact for 3 days follow by letter 3 days later after no contact that is how I did it now that I remember...

 

[REM050]

@REM050 that's pretty wild.



That was before you even met her right, is there any logic to this .. ?



I would say that buying gifts for an ex when you have a new girlfriend is crossing some kind of line, gifts are one of those things that women can put a lot of significance on. I had one girlfriend who absolutely loved gifts (I'm not really a gift-giving person so it was a pretty rare occasion!) and she would've gone bananas if I ever bought another girl something.

If I'm reading the rest right, she sounds completely irrational and in full meltdown mode.

My advice frankly would be to tell her that she's being completely unreasonable and she can talk with you when she's calmed down, and just cut contact until she approaches you in way you find acceptable. There's simply no way to get through to women when they have completely lost sense of reality like that. You have to make sure you don't let her turn every interaction with you into emotional venting, or she'll completely stop listening to you.

I'm pretty blunt when this sort of thing happens, I'll simply treat her and talk to her like a kid in a tantrum. I'll say something like "You're being completely irrational, there's no point talking with you right now. Let me know when you've calmed down." That sort of thing, as many times as it takes. It saves you a lot of emotional energy when you just go ahead and handle her in the moment like that. She'll try and come back a few times with something to provoke me, I just don't respond, and a couple days later suddenly she's talking in a normal tone of voice, holding down her emotions, and then I can speak and be heard. And we talk things over, item by item. And if she blows up again, repeat the process.

Will, I think you are too reasonable to understand. It wasn't a gift that I bought whilst in this relationship. It was a gift that I bought two years ago, almost, and that she knows I got for that ex when we were platonic friends already. It got mentioned at some point and obviously she never forgot (this was when I still had high hopes of those two liking eachother).

Thanks for the advice on dealing with the tantrums. I guess I'm too accommodating sometimes and too willing to get to the bottom of things and solve them right now right here. In this case there truly is no point.

I'm going to follow @Skills advice as well. And we'll see how it goes. Tonight I'll have dinner with some very old and close friends with a nice bottle of wine, so that will help as well.

Lastly: what do I do if she breaks silence with another rant yet again? Just tell her that that isn't what we agreed on and that I'm not going to respond to it now? (That's what I would do)

 

[Will_V]

Will, I think you are too reasonable to understand. It wasn't a gift that I bought whilst in this relationship. It was a gift that I bought two years ago, almost, and that she knows I got for that ex when we were platonic friends already. It got mentioned at some point and obviously she never forgot (this was when I still had high hopes of those two liking eachother).

Thanks for the advice on dealing with the tantrums. I guess I'm too accommodating sometimes and too willing to get to the bottom of things and solve them right now right here. In this case there truly is no point.

I'm going to follow @Skills advice as well. And we'll see how it goes. Tonight I'll have dinner with some very old and close friends with a nice bottle of wine, so that will help as well.

Lastly: what do I do if she breaks silence with another rant yet again? Just tell her that that isn't what we agreed on and that I'm not going to respond to it now? (That's what I would do)

Wow, you bought cream for some girl two years ago and she's all fussed about it? And can't 'forgive' you for having had a relationship before her? That's some next level craziness.

She sounds pretty off the rails. Sucks to have that happen with a girl you really like.

Lastly: what do I do if she breaks silence with another rant yet again? Just tell her that that isn't what we agreed on and that I'm not going to respond to it now? (That's what I would do)

I would not respond at all when she's like that. There's nothing that pierces through a woman's emotions quite like absolute silence, any response can be the fuel that's needed to sustain the flames. Only if she came to me in a conciliatory way would I think about responding.

Right now the main thing is to take care of yourself and get your head straight about what sort of future you want to have and whether or not she can be part of it, might even be worth taking a week or so to think things over, let the emotions cool, and just be your own soldier for a while.

 

[REM050]

Wow, you bought cream for some girl two years ago and she's all fussed about it? And can't 'forgive' you for having had a relationship before her? That's some next level craziness.

She sounds pretty off the rails. Sucks to have that happen with a girl you really like.



I would not respond at all when she's like that. There's nothing that pierces through a woman's emotions quite like absolute silence, any response can be the fuel that's needed to sustain the flames. Only if she came to me in a conciliatory way would I think about responding.

Right now the main thing is to take care of yourself and get your head straight about what sort of future you want to have and whether or not she can be part of it, might even be worth taking a week or so to think things over, let the emotions cool, and just be your own soldier for a while.

I just did that. Makes me feel rather capable to be honest. This little thread really helped me coming to the conclusion that even though I did make a mistake I'm not the crazy one in all of this.

The being my own soldier for a week is definitely what I'm going to do. She can just try and cool off in the mean time - or overcook, whatever works for her.

I have a lot of things to think about, especially concerning my place in relationships as I tend to attract women that project the world on me and try to shape me into their dream partners - one ex wanted me to match her ex physically who was in the special forces, still be my artistic intellectual self and read two books per week (I work as an artist and perform on the main stages of my country) and go find a managing/corporate position to make that 100k per year or more to make sure all her dreams could come true. This one basically did a similar thing, but then on the security department. These things always catch me by surprise so either the girls are pretty good at fooling me or I need to upgrade my screening. Thoughts, thoughts, thoughts...

 

[Skills]

I just did that. Makes me feel rather capable to be honest. This little thread really helped me coming to the conclusion that even though I did make a mistake I'm not the crazy one in all of this.

The being my own soldier for a week is definitely what I'm going to do. She can just try and cool off in the mean time - or overcook, whatever works for her.

I have a lot of things to think about, especially concerning my place in relationships as I tend to attract women that project the world on me and try to shape me into their dream partners - one ex wanted me to match her ex physically who was in the special forces, still be my artistic intellectual self and read two books per week (I work as an artist and perform on the main stages of my country) and go find a managing/corporate position to make that 100k per year or more to make sure all her dreams could come true. This one basically did a similar thing, but then on the security department. These things always catch me by surprise so either the girls are pretty good at fooling me or I need to upgrade my screening. Thoughts, thoughts, thoughts...

these things need to happen so in the future you know what you don't want.... most people look for what they want, we look for what we don't want again..

 

[Bill]

this video gives a example of dealing with a jealous partner at the beginning

 

[REM050]

Thanks @Bill. I'll look at that sometime soon.

For all the others: the relationship ended. I'm both sad and relieved, as one is in such a case, the one more than the other at times.

I sent the letter and although it opened up some space for reconciliation she came by to my place when I wasn't there, waited for a while, got herself mad again and made a mess on purpose. Precious things were potentially permanently damaged and of course my faith in any positive outcome was permanently gone.

She offered to fix things herself the same night, which I let her, and she replaced all the things she damaged or made sure they were professionally cleaned. Then she explained she never did anything like this before and that it was mostly an expression of her pain and feeling misunderstood. Before that I talked to a dear friend, who is much older than I am, and he assumed the same thing - also, he convinced me not to call the police.

Long story short. She said she got wiser now, realised how much I meant to her, I let her stay for the night because it was too late and too far to go anywhere for her and the next day I spent caring for her as she was in a terrible state after all of this.

Of course I had my doubts, but I also won't let someone who basically has an inability to safely walk to the end of the street leave without me taking care of her.

After that she went to her parents and of course when there the doubts kicked in yet another time and this time I made it clear I had enough. She called, we talked, things ended. I politely told her I was willing to go for her until she started accusing me of things I did not do some two weeks ago and especially after she purposely ruined my favourite cashmere scarf the other day. She did not take it well.

I feel I could have done things quite a bit better here and there, but also know it wasn't me in the end that destroyed it all. Next question is: how do I avoid crazy like this again as I seem to be a magnet for girls with diseased or very absent fathers or other forms of strong childhood trauma. If I would go on the statistics of my personal experience on this I think the adult male population would have it worse than during the Second World War...

Anyway. Licking my wounds here, and, in Ricardus' words, looking upwards and onwards again.

Thanks for all the support. It is very much appreciated and I will try to return some favours here and there sometime in the near future. For now I'm too confused to give any solid advice.

 

[Skills]

Thanks @Bill. I'll look at that sometime soon.

For all the others: the relationship ended. I'm both sad and relieved, as one is in such a case, the one more than the other at times.

I sent the letter and although it opened up some space for reconciliation she came by to my place when I wasn't there, waited for a while, got herself mad again and made a mess on purpose. Precious things were potentially permanently damaged and of course my faith in any positive outcome was permanently gone.

She offered to fix things herself the same night, which I let her, and she replaced all the things she damaged or made sure they were professionally cleaned. Then she explained she never did anything like this before and that it was mostly an expression of her pain and feeling misunderstood. Before that I talked to a dear friend, who is much older than I am, and he assumed the same thing - also, he convinced me not to call the police.

Long story short. She said she got wiser now, realised how much I meant to her, I let her stay for the night because it was too late and too far to go anywhere for her and the next day I spent caring for her as she was in a terrible state after all of this.

Of course I had my doubts, but I also won't let someone who basically has an inability to safely walk to the end of the street leave without me taking care of her.

After that she went to her parents and of course when there the doubts kicked in yet another time and this time I made it clear I had enough. She called, we talked, things ended. I politely told her I was willing to go for her until she started accusing me of things I did not do some two weeks ago and especially after she purposely ruined my favourite cashmere scarf the other day. She did not take it well.

I feel I could have done things quite a bit better here and there, but also know it wasn't me in the end that destroyed it all. Next question is: how do I avoid crazy like this again as I seem to be a magnet for girls with diseased or very absent fathers or other forms of strong childhood trauma. If I would go on the statistics of my personal experience on this I think the adult male population would have it worse than during the Second World War...

Anyway. Licking my wounds here, and, in Ricardus' words, looking upwards and onwards again.

Thanks for all the support. It is very much appreciated and I will try to return some favours here and there sometime in the near future. For now I'm too confused to give any solid advice.

Yeah again! if you read my answers i knew it was going to happen.... I did exactly the same and went through exactly the same... make sure you don't get back please and is over for good.... read the break up post please:

Break Ups - Break up dynamics for secret society members (seducers, women, gays)

Most break up posts, blogs, videos are mainly accurate but from a normal person view, not from a secret society (specially seducer/player) perspective. What is the difference you may ask? A secret society member is able to access sexual partners fairly quick and usually do not get onitis...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[REM050]

I knew you knew, @Skills

Thanks for the link and all the replies. I'm much wiser today than I was a week ago - even though I feel more stupid...

 

[Chase]

@REM050,

After reading the latest updates, I would recommend you read this article:

Girlfriend with Borderline Personality Disorder: You Must Escape

Girlfriends with borderline personality disorder can be the sexiest, most intoxicating partners you will ever have. They are also the most damaging ones you can have, and you should run. Lately I have been hearing from more and more guys dealing with girlfriends afflicted with borderline...

www.girlschase.com

Chase

 

[REM050]

@REM050,

After reading the latest updates, I would recommend you read this article:

Girlfriend with Borderline Personality Disorder: You Must Escape

Girlfriends with borderline personality disorder can be the sexiest, most intoxicating partners you will ever have. They are also the most damaging ones you can have, and you should run. Lately I have been hearing from more and more guys dealing with girlfriends afflicted with borderline...

www.girlschase.com

Chase

Funny you are linking the BPD-article. I already suspected she had it for a while and after destroying my place she also thought she had it, but, lo and behold, her psychologist assured her that wasn't the case. Of course this same psychologist told her that keeping her boundaries was important, instead of just saying that healthy people don't worry about past relationships, or simply walk away if they can't deal with them.

Interestingly, even though it hurt her a lot and she said she did not want things to end, she prepared her exit very well. Leaving gifts at my place that she did not want to keep, taking things she did not want to miss... Also, she was making a problem about me getting over her in the future already as well. Finding another girl after a month or two was a slap in the face of what we had.

In the end I also tested her commitment by asking her to pay me back for a holiday that she kept on saying I'd probably should go on alone instead. I reasoned that it was a gift in the case of her coming but that canceling on her own accord wasn't included in the gift package and that in that case she should pay for that herself. Sent her over the roof, of course.

Anyway. BPD is likely the case here. As one of my friends put it: sad story, good riddance.