Having Trouble With Daygame

[Regal Tiger]

So I've been working on seduction since like 2014-15. With a few breaks when I get into a relationship or when life shit hits me

So probably like 4 years total of you exclude the breaks

I've tried a lot of day game. I've tried a lot of online game. I've tried a lot of social circle game. I've tried very, very little night game (I don't particularly enjoy the scene/area/etc. of it)

So obviously I'll never get night game to work, no biggie

I have been able to make both social and online work. I consider my knowledge and experience in online to be some of the best

But for the life of me, I absolutely cannot get day game to work. I'm mostly approaching in parks and coffee shops. Though I've done other areas and recently put in a lot of effort on the street itself. Never paid much attention to my stats but recently I figured I would

So I have had around 130 approaches give or take. If it's on the street it's a direct approach. But when I can I do indirect because I get better results from it (but it's pretty damn hard to pull of without a catalyst on the street, like something weird happening)

Only had a single bad result. So I consider her just crazy, shit happens. I've had a handful of reactions where the girl didn't know what was happening (despite it being a direct approach). Doesn't happen often so I've written it off as just something that happens

Most reactions are happy or even seemingly interested. Even the girls who straight up say they're not interested are happy, giggling and all that. So I know I'm not coming off as creepy (or even angry as would happen a few years ago during some serious life shit). I've even made a few friends during day game (both male and female, so again, I know I'm coming off well because the energy I come with is the same)

In those 130-ish approaches (most of which came in a single month, with the last 20 coming in the past 2 months). I've gotten 29 numbers, with about 5-6 of them being confirmed fake. I've had about 4 instadates and I think 6 actual dates

Also had another that I never got out in person who sent nudes

Haven't gotten laid though, which is the only result that matters at the end of the day with women. In fact, while thinking about it today (today's been an exceptionally shitty day where nothing has gone right) I believe I've only been laid once from a pure cold approach. And honestly, I wish that bitch woulda dodged. A year and a half later I had her fiancee calling the shit outta my phone from different numbers until I had to change my number! I really liked that number too, had a lotta 7's in it

All other lays have come from some form of social circle (like dancing events, or gatherings of some kind) or online

And after being away from apps for a few years back in the summer I fired up a profile and had 5 lays in 3 weeks

Current life reasons prevent me from using online like I'd like to. And the mask/vaccine bullshit prevent me from dancing

So day game is my only option. And I'm starting to really fucking hate it. Like actually hate it. When I first got here I went through Hector's course, and still nothing. I pounded the pavement until I had literal blood blisters on my feet

Now I can't even bother to dress up outside of sweatpants (so I'm not shocked I got a fake number in my only approach in like 3 weeks today lol)

Sidenote: why are the biggest IOI's I get from women with boyfriends? Like one chick pointed her vagina at me to where I could see everything and her boyfriend got pissed at me when she said hi to me while walking to the bathroom. Never seen either person in my life before

And the amount of times I've been eye-fucked while a girl is HOLDING HANDS with her man is honestly creepy. Like calm down woman you got a man right there!

But I don't notice any other IOI's. And when they do happen I end up second guessing myself. Then if I do approach the girl later then there's always a good reaction but never any follow-up. Which I assume is the fact that I either misinterpreted or she went into auto-rejection

I know that it's cuffing season which plays a role. Not as many people out and it's cold and all that. But goddamn, figured I'd have gotten laid at least once by now from just the sheer numbers alone

Made out with probably half of my recent dates, but no second dates. Most just fizzle out or in the case of a few I fucked it up very clearly

The only one that I still talk to is only interested in playing dumb ass games and keeping me in her back pocket. Honestly considering just blocking her and being done with it. Not a fan of getting a random text and I've even ignored her a few times but she will still randomly reach out at times

Not the right move, but I've even called her out on what she's doing. She denies it, but the panicked texting was kinda funny to me

But yeah, overall I'd have to say that online is 10x better for me. And I meet more crazies in day game than I do online. At this point I just don't even understand what the hell I'm doing wrong

So to end my little rant I'd have to say, what's your process I guess? Are these stats normal? This is beyond annoying and the time investment itself is just plain not worth it without some results

In all the years I've been working on myself and seduction, I shudder to think of my life-long stats. And only 1 lay that was pure cold approach

Hookers and getting a second job to afford them are starting to look reeeeeeeeally good right about now, not gonna lie

 

[ulrich]

@Regal Tiger, my man.
I am sorry to see you struggling with daygame. You’re such a serious seducer. Certainly you deserve better.

I would not call me an expert in daygame but looking at your numbers…
- The number of approaches is great. You got to be proud of that.
- The approach to number rate is good. 1/4 is pretty good.
- The number to date, though is rather low. I think the problem is there.

Could you give us some example of the kind of interactions you have that lead to numbers?… my guess is you’re either failing to reach the hook point / seed the date or there’s something about your follow up that it’s not working.

Out of the top of my head I can tell you something to consider:

1) The typical daygame girl is usually higher quality and much less DTF than what you get in apps. You need to calibrate for that.

I usually downright expect to have sex until the second or third date.
I may try to but I will not push it.

2) When I went from online to daygame, I had to shed some things I used to do that worked fine on Tinder but were killing my attainability with more traditional girls.
Things like saying I don’t do boyfriend/girlfriend, raunchy sex stories, first date at bars…

Tinder girls are used to players and expect you to be one… daygame girls are more likely to go into autorejection if you give too much player vibes.

 

[Skills]

based on your day game numbers, your problem is not day game, is your dating not converting... it seems you are getting the best bank from the buck from online...... I would keep doing day game as you are, as you continue your ratios should improve, i would try to incorporate some go to situational openers..... I would put all my focus to improve the "Date" part of day game, i would field test the 3 bounce method... finally, i talk about what you observe here https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/the-fake-negative-approach-invite.23631/

 

[Will_V]

Yes 1/4 phone numbers is very good, considering many girls are already taken.

- Are you making an impression that sticks in her mind (not just being friendly/social)?
- Or, are you being too intense and making her question things later?
- Are you seeding the date so she knows what she's in for (less questions/anxiety in her mind later)?
- What's your texting like?

Out of your 6 dates, if you are making out with them maybe it's releasing the tension or making her put on the brakes. If that's so I'd suggest using touch, eye contact and deep diving to create closeness, maybe get to the edge of making out and then fractionate to create more tension, and try to focus on creating a 'current' that pushes her toward your place rather than giving her physical validation on the spot.

 

[Regal Tiger]

I appreciate the responses, when I get to my laptop I'll properly respond!

 

[Beck Bass]

Sidenote: why are the biggest IOI's I get from women with boyfriends? Like one chick pointed her vagina at me to where I could see everything and her boyfriend got pissed at me when she said hi to me while walking to the bathroom. Never seen either person in my life before

I've had that happen before, I was with my old wing having a burger at a place with lots of little bars, and it was pretty much empty that day, then a chick that was with some dude started staring us like haaarrd... Like she was eating us alive with her eyefucking, she was basically begging us to go there and just fuck her or something lmao. My wing got mad and said something like "whats wrong with this girl", her boyfriend came back and they shortly left. I can't know for sure, but I think when this happens, it's because the girl is full of the guy and wants to cuck him hard, like she doesn't even care anymore, she just wants to humilate her man or something. Or maybe it's just girls being girls and testing men for fun, who knows?

- The number to date, though is rather low. I think the problem is there.

Yeah, back in the day I also went in a phase like that, but with night game, it's very different, since night game by itself already just leads itself to more numbers that turn into nothing, but I got so mad that I stopped even asking for phone numbers and started trying to go as far as I could with the girls in the moment. Shortly after, I pulled my first girl out of a club, then after a while got my first lay (she actually took my number and chased me, but she was a friend of a friend, so... nevertheless, I approached her and ran my usual game).

Now that I'm back in night game, I'm getting much more consistent numbers, even two girls that were in drugs when I met them are texting me cheerfully and seem willing to meet up, and the big difference is in the way I ask for the number. As @Chase said numerous times, the number is just a means for you to keep contact, what you have to get from her, in person, is that she agrees to go out with you, a date or hangout, or whatever. Since it's night game, I myself always ask girls what they are doing later, and suggest we go hang out at my appartment, so the intent is very clear, most girls will have some logistic problem that maybe I can't solve, but them I suggest we hang out some other day, and when they agree, they know what it is for. Also, I text them an icebreaker very shortly after, like right after they disappear, because I'm still fresh on their minds, and the good interaction they had with me will cement some investment, so they are more likely to answer afterwards and go out with me.

For daygame, I'm not very familiar with how you would invite girls for something else afterwards, I know you can't be as sexual, but at the same time, if there's no sexual intent that she can feel and kinda give into, I think there's very little chance she's gonna wanna meet up, because girls are busy and risk-averse and won't wanna meet up unless they get excited for what could potentially happen. The guys @Skills @uriel and @Will_V know way more than I do about that, maybe they can lighten you up even more in that regard.

Good luck regardless

 

[pancakemouse]

What city are you in?

These are extremely normal daygame numbers in 2021. Most girls are going to reject, most numbers are going to flake. That's just how it is, especially in major cities.

 

[ElderPrice]

On one hand, if you made 130 approaches and got 6-10 dates out of it, that's pretty awesome, and indicates your issue is closing more so than the approaching.

On the other hand, your day game experience mostly matches mine. I got 100ish approaches when clubs were shut down, and I got mostly positive responses, but no lays (and for me, very few dates). I got phone numbers, I got girls that were flattered, and multiple times I got compliments on how massive my balls were for approaching. But no results. And I was also frustrated because it was an immense amount of time for so little returns.

Either way, my first piece of advice is definitely do NOT go the route of over-analyzing and mentally masturbating. If you generally get compliments on your looks, conversation skills, etc, then you're most likely in good shape and there isn't a significant error you're making in your approach. No need to pour through all the details to find minor imperfections.

I would also recommend looking at this from a big picture, so you can remember some things you already know to be true:
- You see pretty girls while out and about. Most probably have a boyfriend, and many might not be in the mood to socialize or find a fuck buddy.
- Of the actual single girls you encounter and who are in the mood to look, many won't be interested in you. (Not her type, too old for her, too young for her, etc.)
- You don't know a girl's situation so all you can do is say hi and ask.
- You get turned down a lot because you're running through all these taken/unavailable girls that don't advertise their status on their sleeve.
- You're probably talking to a lot of girls without them having a chance to check you out first.

So I'd say this leaves two paths forward. Either keep sarging along and go through all those miserable no's in order to find the few yes's, or see what you can do to better tilt the odds in your favor.

Examples:
- You mentioned parks and coffee shops. Are you sure you're going to the spots in town with the highest percentage clientele of single women? Maybe there's a better coffee shop to try. Maybe there's a better time of day when single women surge in.
- Maybe parks and coffee shops aren't good locations. Maybe you'd do better in malls or grocery stores.

 

[Regal Tiger]

@Regal Tiger, my man.
I am sorry to see you struggling with daygame. You’re such a serious seducer. Certainly you deserve better.

I appreciate it, thank you. But I'm definitely obsessive if nothing else lol

I would not call me an expert in daygame but looking at your numbers…
- The number of approaches is great. You got to be proud of that.

I wish I could be but... I can't. I don't care about the process. I don't experience AA anymore but I definitely have apathy at times.

It's always been like that for me since I was a kid though. Did I work really hard and put forth my best effort? Don't care. Only thing that matters is the end result. If it was good then awesome. If it wasn't then it sucks lol.

I was the same when I worked on my first business. It got stripped from me on somebody else's whim. Other people think it's cool that I was able to work on it for so long, even while homeless and getting like 2-3 hours of sleep a night. I just look back and think of it as an absolutely massive failure and waste of time :/

- The approach to number rate is good. 1/4 is pretty good.
- The number to date, though is rather low. I think the problem is there.

Could be, not sure

Could you give us some example of the kind of interactions you have that lead to numbers?… my guess is you’re either failing to reach the hook point / seed the date or there’s something about your follow up that it’s not working.

I'll give a more dedicated response because I've seen this come up more than once, but I'm not actually asking for numbers. I bring up the subject of getting tea or a smoothie sometime. Then I just hand my phone over to the girl to put her details in if she says yes.

Out of the top of my head I can tell you something to consider:

1) The typical daygame girl is usually higher quality and much less DTF than what you get in apps. You need to calibrate for that.

I usually downright expect to have sex until the second or third date.
I may try to but I will not push it.

Yeah, but I still expect something to happen eventually lol

And I'd say I'm more waiting until I get that gut feeling that it's time. Doesn't matter how I meet her. I'm really just waiting on that gut feeling and then act on it.

2) When I went from online to daygame, I had to shed some things I used to do that worked fine on Tinder but were killing my attainability with more traditional girls.
Things like saying I don’t do boyfriend/girlfriend, raunchy sex stories, first date at bars…

Tinder girls are used to players and expect you to be one… daygame girls are more likely to go into autorejection if you give too much player vibes.

I don't really give off too many player vibes though. Now that it's been a day I'd say it wouldn't hurt to bring in more sexuality, but I'm not sure. But like I said, I'll give a better answer to what my process looks like as it's own response

 

[Regal Tiger]

based on your day game numbers, your problem is not day game, is your dating not converting... it seems you are getting the best bank from the buck from online...... I would keep doing day game as you are, as you continue your ratios should improve, i would try to incorporate some go to situational openers..... I would put all my focus to improve the "Date" part of day game, i would field test the 3 bounce method... finally, i talk about what you observe here https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/the-fake-negative-approach-invite.23631/

I'll look into that link after going through everyone's response, thanks!

I will say that I try to use situational where I can, but when I'm in the park it's more difficult to smoothly go into a conversation like that. Although chances do come up, like if something weird happens or if they have a dog (although after petting the dog I'll make a statement of intent). Or one of my personal favorites if I am at a stoplight with another girl, I'll make a joke about how I'll let them go first so that I don't get run over. If she smiles/laughs then I'll continue the conversation. If she just gives me the polite shoulder then I let it go

But yeah, coffee shops are easy for situational. Parks/street not so much, but they do happen. But yeah, I agree that situational tends to work a little better

 

[Regal Tiger]

Yes 1/4 phone numbers is very good, considering many girls are already taken.

- Are you making an impression that sticks in her mind (not just being friendly/social)?

Hard to say since I'm not in contact with too many of them anymore, so I dunno?

- Or, are you being too intense and making her question things later?

Although after reading this one it might be the first one, not making enough of an impression if I had to guess. I do tend to give people their space at first.

- Are you seeding the date so she knows what she's in for (less questions/anxiety in her mind later)?

Absolutely, I don't swap numbers without proposing a date first unless she's with someone else like a friend. Like the girl yesterday, she was with a friend but I just had to try anyways. So I did exchange the number just to chat later to see if anything was there because from past experiences the other person starts to get annoyed if my interaction goes on for over 2-3 minutes. So I try to eject before then so the friend still stays on my side

- What's your texting like?

I'll give some examples in its own response after I go through everybody else's responses! That way it is its own thing and people can see it easier

Out of your 6 dates, if you are making out with them maybe it's releasing the tension or making her put on the brakes. If that's so I'd suggest using touch, eye contact and deep diving to create closeness, maybe get to the edge of making out and then fractionate to create more tension, and try to focus on creating a 'current' that pushes her toward your place rather than giving her physical validation on the spot.

Yeah, I agree that kissing before getting to a seduction location is typically better. But for the two that I can think of off the top of my head I just genuinely liked them. As for the third she was the only one that I brought back to my place, although nothing happened.

I kinda use the kiss as a test to see if it's worth asking them to come home with me most of the time. For social/online it's always worked. Like a small makeout and then I pull back, continue on for a few minutes and then ask them to leave with me using whatever we've talked about before

 

[Regal Tiger]

I've had that happen before, I was with my old wing having a burger at a place with lots of little bars, and it was pretty much empty that day, then a chick that was with some dude started staring us like haaarrd... Like she was eating us alive with her eyefucking, she was basically begging us to go there and just fuck her or something lmao. My wing got mad and said something like "whats wrong with this girl", her boyfriend came back and they shortly left. I can't know for sure, but I think when this happens, it's because the girl is full of the guy and wants to cuck him hard, like she doesn't even care anymore, she just wants to humilate her man or something. Or maybe it's just girls being girls and testing men for fun, who knows?

Yeah I dunno either. But if I caught my girl doing that I'd immediately dump her. It's extremely disrespectful to everyone involved.

Yeah, back in the day I also went in a phase like that, but with night game, it's very different, since night game by itself already just leads itself to more numbers that turn into nothing, but I got so mad that I stopped even asking for phone numbers and started trying to go as far as I could with the girls in the moment. Shortly after, I pulled my first girl out of a club, then after a while got my first lay (she actually took my number and chased me, but she was a friend of a friend, so... nevertheless, I approached her and ran my usual game).

I can imagine, but as someone who just doesn't like night game I'll have to take your word for it lol

Now that I'm back in night game, I'm getting much more consistent numbers, even two girls that were in drugs when I met them are texting me cheerfully and seem willing to meet up, and the big difference is in the way I ask for the number. As @Chase said numerous times, the number is just a means for you to keep contact, what you have to get from her, in person, is that she agrees to go out with you, a date or hangout, or whatever. Since it's night game, I myself always ask girls what they are doing later, and suggest we go hang out at my appartment, so the intent is very clear, most girls will have some logistic problem that maybe I can't solve, but them I suggest we hang out some other day, and when they agree, they know what it is for. Also, I text them an icebreaker very shortly after, like right after they disappear, because I'm still fresh on their minds, and the good interaction they had with me will cement some investment, so they are more likely to answer afterwards and go out with me.

For daygame, I'm not very familiar with how you would invite girls for something else afterwards, I know you can't be as sexual, but at the same time, if there's no sexual intent that she can feel and kinda give into, I think there's very little chance she's gonna wanna meet up, because girls are busy and risk-averse and won't wanna meet up unless they get excited for what could potentially happen. The guys @Skills @uriel and @Will_V know way more than I do about that, maybe they can lighten you up even more in that regard.

You can use just about any excuse really. If it's warmer out sometimes I'll talk about how I need to use the restroom or even just change shirts because I like walking around (and I typically have dates that are close to my place so it doesn't take long to get to my place).

In the place I was living at prior there was a walking trail like a literal minute from where I lived. There was also a pond with a 'killer' view. Then we'd rock up at my place and check out the view and then I'd just escalate from there.

As for when you get to your place, regardless of the excuse, I just expect a girl to get out with me. If I even suspect a tiny amount that she won't on her own I'll just invite her in. I don't even offer up any excuses most of the time, I just straight up "wanna come in?"

I'm rarely turned down because if you think about it, it's kinda weird to just sit there.

Good luck regardless

Thanks! I'm trying

 

[Regal Tiger]

What city are you in?

These are extremely normal daygame numbers in 2021. Most girls are going to reject, most numbers are going to flake. That's just how it is, especially in major cities.

Just moved to KC Missouri

Yeah, I understand that most aren't going to work out. But if it never works out then what's the point? I'm not doing this for fun. It actually sucks like 90% of the time.

The only time it doesn't suck is when I'm somewhere because I wanted to be there and people randomly show up worth approaching. But then my approaches drop to like 1 a week or less.

 

[Regal Tiger]

On one hand, if you made 130 approaches and got 6-10 dates out of it, that's pretty awesome, and indicates your issue is closing more so than the approaching.

On the other hand, your day game experience mostly matches mine. I got 100ish approaches when clubs were shut down, and I got mostly positive responses, but no lays (and for me, very few dates). I got phone numbers, I got girls that were flattered, and multiple times I got compliments on how massive my balls were for approaching. But no results. And I was also frustrated because it was an immense amount of time for so little returns.

Yeah, and don't get me wrong it's nice to get complimented and all but at the end of the day that's not why I'm doing this. If compliments are the only thing I'll ever get out of it then I'd never do it again.

Either way, my first piece of advice is definitely do NOT go the route of over-analyzing and mentally masturbating. If you generally get compliments on your looks, conversation skills, etc, then you're most likely in good shape and there isn't a significant error you're making in your approach. No need to pour through all the details to find minor imperfections.

But that's what I do lol! It's also how I got to be so damn good at online.

Analyzing the absolute bajezus outta everything. Then getting everything down to the point where it's a system I can just plug in and run away with, even years later!

A few months ago when I jumped back into online briefly I just went back to everything that I'd written, did it, and bam! It worked lol. I didn't have to remember everything (and truth be told, there was a lot that I'd forgotten)!

That's what I'm aiming for with everything women related. I had a system for when I danced too, but it wasn't refined enough and I never got a chance to really get it down to where I felt comfortable/confident enough to write it all down and say 'this works'. Because I never got to that point with it

I would also recommend looking at this from a big picture, so you can remember some things you already know to be true:
- You see pretty girls while out and about. Most probably have a boyfriend, and many might not be in the mood to socialize or find a fuck buddy.

Yeah but out of 100 I expect at least one of them too. Otherwise that's a whole lotta time that I'd much rather do just about anything else.

- Of the actual single girls you encounter and who are in the mood to look, many won't be interested in you. (Not her type, too old for her, too young for her, etc.)
- You don't know a girl's situation so all you can do is say hi and ask.
- You get turned down a lot because you're running through all these taken/unavailable girls that don't advertise their status on their sleeve.
- You're probably talking to a lot of girls without them having a chance to check you out first.

So I'd say this leaves two paths forward. Either keep sarging along and go through all those miserable no's in order to find the few yes's, or see what you can do to better tilt the odds in your favor.

Which is why I made this post. I'm looking to see what other guys are making work and see more things to try out

Examples:
- You mentioned parks and coffee shops. Are you sure you're going to the spots in town with the highest percentage clientele of single women? Maybe there's a better coffee shop to try. Maybe there's a better time of day when single women surge in.
- Maybe parks and coffee shops aren't good locations. Maybe you'd do better in malls or grocery stores.

Maybe.

But when I say I'm trying out parks/coffee shops and all that, here's my overall process in regards to choosing places to go:

1) Google Maps and busy times
2) Go at least 3 times to see if it's worth anything at different times and different days
3) If there are plenty of women then just keep trying while looking at other places on my list


It got to the point where I even have a list of yoga places and times when yoga classes get out. Then I can walk around at the same time as those classes get out and see if I can't meet some of them. Though I've only went this far in a shopping area so it's a little more natural to be there. And I can be more anonymous as well

 

[Regal Tiger]

@uriel
Daygame process

Typically goes like this:
First I ask myself if I can make a situational opener work. In shops then the answer is yes so I always go with this first. Then, depending on how open she seems to me talking to her in the first place I'll drop in a statement of intent within the first 2 minutes. Sometimes it's a compliment on how she looks, sometimes it's a compliment on her as a character and other times it's just a straight up "honestly, I just thought you were cute and wanted to talk to you"

If she's not into it then I say all good, sometimes make a funny joke about how I'll never find love again in an very over the top voice so they know I'm not being serious. Then I'll wish them a happy day and move on

If she seems into it then I'll just continue with the conversation


My conversations typically revolve heavily around deep diving. As I mentioned up above in one of my responses I could use more flirty-ish stuff as well as a few teases now and again. So in the SAC formula I'd need more Arousal.

But overall I'd say I focus heavily on Similarity and a little Compliance in the original meet. I'll also do some light incidental touches here and there but hardly ever anything past that on the original meet (which was the case with the girl who sent nudes but was always 'too busy' to meet up). On the date itself there's a different story though


I'll try to have a 4-5 minute conversation at the minimum, unless she's with someone or looks like she's in a hurry. In which case I'll bring up that very thing and then propose exchanging numbers to talk more or even grab a tea/coffee/smoothie soon. Even the girl last night I made a joke about her getting over covid and how we needed to celebrate, let's exchange numbers and we can chat more when we have more time to.

At the most, I'll have a 10 minute conversation on the original meet.

Then I'll make a reason to grab a tea/smoothie/coffee/whatever

Sometimes it's in response to something she said she accomplished and how we should celebrate. Other times it'll just be, you seem cool, let's grab a blank soon. Cool, put your number in here and I'll text you.

@Will_V

Texting process

Is extremely basic and loosely follows Chase's own style. I personally don't like his actual texts he advises but the overall steps are the same

A simple little ice breaker. Then a day later I'll ask about something they mentioned and if they ever got their schedule figured out.

A few examples:
1) I'm having a crazy thought blank, we should do something a little later tonight after your rendezvous with your parents *emoji* - no date
2) Hey blank, it's blank. Now you have my number and we'll talk soon about Wednesday --> she gave a really warm response so I proposed a study break and she came out to meet me - same day date
3) Hey blank, it's blank. I'll see you later tonight around 9 -- same day date
4) Hey blank, it's blank, now you have my number and have you ever been to blank before? -- date like 2 days later
5) Hey blank! It's that cute guy from Walmart, save my number
--- well hello cute guy from Walmart I never caught your name though
--- lol my bad, it's blank. And did you say you were free tomorrow or tonight? --> went on a date the next day


Actually, looking through some of my old texts it looks like I have a much better hit rate with nailing down a day for the date when I meet them. Although even that's not a guarantee. There were a few of those who just plain never responded so the date never happened

 

[LilByLil]

I'm also having a tough time with day game. And yah it sometimes sucks, but also sometimes you feel like a baller no? I humbly suggest you lean into both. Remember this is a game of asymmetric returns which makes it so much harder to stay positive about it, but not impossible. If you're burning yourself out, maybe focus more on your own goals/life and do the cold approaching as part of your daily activities so you don't feel like you're "wasting your time".

Keep your head up. Keep grinding and get better. A relevant quote that I like:

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle

 

[pancakemouse]

Just moved to KC Missouri

Yeah, I understand that most aren't going to work out. But if it never works out then what's the point? I'm not doing this for fun. It actually sucks like 90% of the time.

The only time it doesn't suck is when I'm somewhere because I wanted to be there and people randomly show up worth approaching. But then my approaches drop to like 1 a week or less.

This might be hard to hear, but if daygame isn't fun for you, I would just quit and focus 100% on social circle.

There is no way to avoid mass rejection. The default nature of women is to ghost, reject, and flake. Any cold approach practitioner must accept this.

I get rejected as much as, or more than, you. But I love the process and I love talking to people. That's why I keep at it.

 

[Regal Tiger]

I'm also having a tough time with day game. And yah it sometimes sucks, but also sometimes you feel like a baller no?

I used to. But I lost that feeling a long time ago. Now it's just something to do lol

I'm just trying to figure out where I can improve so that I can get the results that I'm looking for

I humbly suggest you lean into both. Remember this is a game of asymmetric returns which makes it so much harder to stay positive about it, but not impossible. If you're burning yourself out, maybe focus more on your own goals/life and do the cold approaching as part of your daily activities so you don't feel like you're "wasting your time".

Can't, then I'll never get results. If I want results then I need to put in the effort. It's how I get good at anything I am decent at.

That's my process. Throw myself at a wall. Suck at it. Throw myself again. Get mad, swear a lot, eat a shit ton of sugar. Try again.

Keep your head up. Keep grinding and get better. A relevant quote that I like:

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle

Yup, good quote

 

[Will_V]

I used to. But I lost that feeling a long time ago. Now it's just something to do lol

That could be a problem right there.

In my opinion, 99% of daygame results depends on state. It's no coincidence that you see some of the best daygamers out there espouse meditation and place a lot of emphasis on state control in general. James Marshall (who probably more than anyone inspires my general approach to daygame) considers it a cornerstone of seduction, and even life in general.

The reason why it's so essential, the way I see it, is because state control is the only really effective means of creating context out of thin air. Think about it, at clubs women are already horny and they've gone there prepared to find someone to go home with. Online, women know what the deal is, they swipe with the intention of giving a guy a chance. There is already context, the women there are somewhat self-selected as women who are looking to find a guy to do something with.

That means that in some sense, in those contexts, women have a certain expectation of what is going to happen next, and if a man fulfills it, then there's a good chance something will happen. He does not need to lead her to the starting point from somewhere different.

In daygame, there is no such thing. A woman who doesn't get approached a lot will often have no idea what to expect, what is 'normal' in a daygame situation, beyond her social instincts. That means that a guy must lead her to the starting point, by creating context.

It's very debatable what is the right context to create - some guys like to be very direct, others very indirect, so on - but the point is that the guy is in a position of having to provide a context that the woman can work with. And I don't only mean a logical context but also an emotional context, a set of circumstances that 'clicks' with a woman in some way so that she can respond in certain ways.

But the moment that a woman is approached in daygame, she is already in a context - whatever she is doing, whatever her mood is - that could be anything. And from this, the man must lead her to the context that allows the encounter to move forward. So first he must dissolve the original context before he can replace it - and in my opinion, this is where state control comes in.

State control is a collection of things. The first and most essential in the approach I believe are 1) being fully present and 2) being deeply relaxed. Being present allows him to focus entirely on her - something that she feels like being under a warm spotlight, that captivates her - and enables him to be very sensitive to how she feels. Being deeply relaxed allows him to absorb awkwardness and turn it into lightness - it allows her to be able to not know what to say or do without feeling the need to escape the pressure - as well as enabling him to finely tune his reactions to her based on what he is perceiving about how she feels.

After this comes more action-oriented manifestations of state control, like tuning the level of desire so that the encounter becomes sexual without being too pressurized, and also releasing his own authentic emotions without them getting in the way of the seduction, which is very important in creating connection.

The point is that when you don't feel all that interested or excited about the whole thing, your state is neutral. Everything becomes a mask rather than an embodiment - to illustrate an analogy with dancing, it's the equivalent of pulling and pushing her rather than her feeling the current of your desires and intentions and being inspired to move with you.

And in daygame, this can create enough of a sense of separation and distance that she just doesn't feel it later on when she thinks about what happened. It's like something that had the right shape but lacked energy, so she cannot move forward with it.

I would also say, to your mention that you don't feel approach anxiety, this is not necessarily a good thing. I don't know anything I've ever done that mattered that I didn't feel excitement or trepidation about, and that's part of the energy that I transform and direct to fuel the action I take. And believe me, she feels it too, more than the words you say or the techniques you use. When you are in highly energized, intentful state that nonetheless is calm, she feels the potential energy pointed at her like a cock, and there is nothing that validates a woman more than an attractive man who becomes electrified in her presence, she wants to feel it all released into her body. But a man who is going through the motions does not offer her that kind of experience, only the possibility that he will go through the motions of intimacy, which is something no girl in history has ever wanted.

 

[ulrich]

@Regal Tiger, alright man.
Congratulations, this is one of the best out detailed explanations of game that I have seen.
It’s a blast just reading it.

Ok, so your texting is good enough, it should be working. And you had some success getting dates before so that’s cool.

The only thing I don’t see in your interactions is the hook point.
Are you waiting to hit the hook point before proposing the meet?
Could you share some example of conversations you had?

My guess is that probably you’re failing to excite the girl, don’t really hit the hook point and by the tenth minute you eject a little too soon.

Do you feel obligated to ask for numbers?
I don’t always ask for a number if I feel the girl is not feeling me.