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Yeah, I randomly opened up this forum after 1 year of not logging in at all (was too toxic at the time) and your thread popped up. Pure luck.
You got LOTS of love for 6 pages man. LOTS of love. Everyone is rooting for you.
Head up!
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2015
- Messages
- 1,032
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2015
- Messages
- 1,032
Still having trouble. Still getting mad. After every day game session these past 2 days I've felt like it'd be more fun to throw myself into a brick wall from a moving car. During the session I'm actually feeling good and a little excited. After the session my legs hurt, I'm having trouble walking and I don't feel positive... let's say that lol
Here's my overall process/blueprint so if anyone has any ideas about where tweaks could be made I'm all ears (or rather... eyes I guess lol):
Approach
1) Fix state and relax my face. Go in with a calm, yet overall positive demeanor. Make sure to relax my face to where I'm wearing a little smirk as I walk around and with my eyebrows slightly up and engaged but relaxed
2) Double check my walk
3) See girl, walk up to her and as I get close call out "on your left" so I don't scare people. A lot of people have headphones so I'll walk slightly in front and look over with a little wave and a smile. Although some people look over and I'm like "I say that so I don't accidentally scare you as I walk past you. But honestly, by the way *opener*"
4) Excuse me *pause* I was walking *physically look to where I was to give her a chance to check me out* and when I saw you *pause* (today I've noticed that this pause needs to be done better, I don't pause much the second time) whatever I like about her
--> sometimes say I'd like to flirt with you, sometimes say I wanted to meet you. Depends on whatever I feel like saying honestly
--> also, if they jump a bit then I hold up my hands so they can see my palms, make sure to smile even harder and say whoops, didn't mean to scare you, but I saw you.... and deliver rest of opener
Reactions at this point:
Honestly most women are super happy that I approached them, even if they're not interested. A few are kinda meh but nobody's been upset in anyway
A few indirect approaches I've taken a liking to going in like this:
Whatever indirect subject pops into my head that's related to the environment. Then after they respond I'll ask how they're doing and when they politely ask me I'll say "well I'll be honest, I'd be a lot better if I knew your name" with a cheeky little smile. If that hits then cool, just keep going along the conversation as normal. If I feel like it didn't hit for some reason then I'll say "honestly, I just wanted to flirt with you, I'm blank"
After Approach -- Body Language
1) I make sure to stop walking so that they stop walking with me --> I noticed I had this mistake a lot in the past
2) As I'm introducing myself I watch how open her body language is. Most of the time it's around 70% open, which I try to mimic
3) Once she gets full open (so fully facing me) that's when I step out of the polite zone and into the intimate zone, or at least closer judging to see if she backs up at all. I do this while I'm talking to her and I like to make a big gesture and move as I'm adjusting myself because of the gesture. Or I'll even rock a bit and just kinda step into her then as well --> seems to go well
4) While not at the same time as stepping into her, this is also the point where I'll touch her arm. I'll do this as she laughs at something
--> though I'm thinking of just getting rid of touch altogether until I go for the number/date
5) Once fully open, that's when I'll start winding down the approach and go into my routine of asking for the number/date request.
After Approach -- Conversation
1) I'll ask what kinds of mischief/trouble/plans she has for the day
--> it's about a 40/60 split if she gives me something to riff off of. If she does then I continue the conversation from whatever she mentioned
2) If she doesn't give me something then I'll ask about what she likes to do
--> when she turns the conversation back to me, this allows me to talk about my creative pursuits
-----> I talk about whatever pops into my head that I enjoy and try to tailor 2/3 things to what I think she'll enjoy hearing more and 1/3 things that's a bit different. Sports, exploring/hiking/nature or writing poetry, dancing, traveling and etc. If I feel like it I'll make the joke that I'm a bit of a hobby junkie if I think it'll land better. If I think she'll take it well when she asks me what I do, then I'll make the "women mostly but twenty bucks is twenty bucks" joke that I enjoy. Then be like "yeah so anyways I enjoy blank blank blank"
3) During this time I'm also trying to play the reminds me of game that I got from Charisma on Command (you take something someone says and just say that reminds me of... whatever). I will especially do this when I get to talking about whatever she's passionate about and relate to it in some way
4) I'll also try and find anything to qualify her on that I genuinely like about whatever she's working towards
Overall, I try to keep my approaches around 5-10 minutes. Once it gets to the point where I think she's hooked I'll start winding it down
Winding Down Part
Sometimes I have to skip to this part if she's not giving me anything. Although from now on I'm thinking of just straight dropping them if I sense high walls without any warmth after a few minutes instead of even bothering to go for it. I'm never pleasantly surprised so fuck it
1) I love asking her what I should know about her. I'll usually preface it with something like, well before I let ya go what should I know about you? Something like that
2) I'll ask what they want to know about me and like... 80% of the time they'll ask what they should know about me, or what do I want to tell them. But sometimes I'll get a really cool question (like today a tall nerd with huge tits asked me what fantasy world I'd live in. Kind of a cool, if niche question)
--> here I take the opportunity to talk about how I'm passionate about psychology and that's what I'm trying to base the business that I'm building on *just a bait to see if they ask more about it, most do*. Then I can talk more about what it is and inject more of my own passion into the conversation
3) Then I'll say something like it was cool meeting them and ask if they like tea or if they like coffee more
--> whatever they say doesn't matter as long as it's not a nothing. Then I'll ask if they've ever been to blank before
Yes or no again it doesn't matter:
Yes --> then you already know how amazing they are!
No --> then you don't know how amazing they are!
4) We should grab a *whatever she said* some time soon. What's your schedule like
--> just kinda play off that
*hand her my phone* --> if I think she'll take it well I'll even make a fun sexual joke of "stick it in for me". Rarely will I do this though, depends on the girl
During The Approach
I'm trying to add in teases whenever possible, but it feels weird to add into the blueprint *okay tease here* lol. But I'm just looking out for opportunities
As noted above, I'm constantly watching her body and in particular how open she is to me as well as if she leans away or in as well.
Somehow girls always wanna know how long I've lived in KC or they ask where I live which leads to me saying how I moved last year (honestly not sure why, but like damn near every single girl asks me some version of this question). So it makes it easy to bring up Nashville and how I used to live there as well as how beautiful it is. Bridge that into eventually seeing if she wants to see some of my pictures on my phone that I took and how much I love waterfalls.
--> also makes it easy to see her motivations/travel aspirations herself. When the topic comes up I'll ask "You can go anywhere in the world you want to, what makes this place the place you need to be?" --> easy to get into travel from here as well
--> also pro tip that I learned the hard way one day long ago: ALWAYS hit the do not disturb button on your phone before handing the girl your phone. Honestly, before handing anyone your phone in my opinion, but definitely with women
Girls also like to ask "what do you do" and I always, always misinterpret it nowadays to "I love doing all kinds of things, a few examples are *blank and blank that I think she'll connect* as well as *blank that shows I'm my own person*". Very rarely will she ask later on what I do for work, which I find kinda odd, but whatever, answering the question that I want to answer instead works in my favor so fuck it
I used to deep-dive a lot during the approach because I genuinely enjoy it. But I've since scaled it waaaaay back. Now I'll ask a single deep-dive question as well as follow up on that one subject for like a minute or two. But it was advised that I don't go too hard on this. So I've scaled back a lot, think it helps a little. Every once in a while I'll ask 2 different deep-dive questions during the approach. But I definitely limit myself to 2 now at most
Texting
Anywhere from an hour to 2 hours later unless plans for later in the day were made in which case I text back immediately. I include my name and I try to include something that we talked about earlier in our conversation (I'll make a note on their contact in my phone so I don't forget). If she doesn't answer back then I'm getting to the point where I'll just delete them and move on now. Used to I'd wait 2-3 days and send a meme or something as a follow up but now I just move on
From here it's a bit of a crapshoot and depends on how long until the date. For one girl who I have a date scheduled with next Thursday (met on... Monday or Tuesday? Can't remember) I texted two days later, just asking her how she felt about random but hilarious short video clips. She was game so I sent her one I thought she'd like. Then I texted again tonight, a day later a beautiful picture of the park at night that I thought was super cool
--> will probably wait until Sunday or even Monday to text again. Just trying to vary it up while still pinging her every once in a while to say that hey, I'm still interested, I'm just not trying to get into a conversation is all. I've done the same strategies with online dating and for the same reason. From talking to other people this seems to be optimal as well, but I'm open to suggestions
If the date is 3 days away then I'll text after two days
If the date is 2 days away then I'll text once the day before
The day of the date I'll text around 11 am or so what color shirt I'll be wearing later. If they don't text back eventually then I don't show up
My texting process has gotten easier since I've included an easy to respond to something in my icebreaker to keep a lighter flow of the conversation going. This allows a smoother, more natural text the next day kinda thing since I can just wait until the next day to send a response, depending on how late it is
It's also a tell on how interested they are, at least, that was the idea behind it. I definitely get more replies which helps my morale, but as far as dates go I am not sure at all if it helps or not, to be honest
Things I'm Trying to Add In
In another thread Chase mentioned cold reads. I'm going to try and throw these into the mix. I tried earlier today with a girl who was absolutely stonewalling me to the point that I was like "there's no way she's interested" and even I was like it's cool if you want to leave. So needless to say that cold read was a bit jumbled up and I don't wanna get into that failure. I was going to stumble over that one no matter what anyways -- even gave her like 3 opportunities to just straight up leave but she didn't take any of them. She just kept smiling and even followed me as I went to a bench a little ways away (she wouldn't take either of my offers to sit with me though...) So friggin weird
Compliance --> I've gotten better at looking out for chances for compliance like come sit with me on this bench, or come over here and let's check this thing out that's pretty. Or even hey move over so these people can go past us. Etc.
--> I've been approaching mostly in a park so it's pretty easy to move a little bit. But could probably use a little more work
Lobo mentioned adding in more pauses to the getting her contact info par that I'll do. I didn't have a chance to do this today because there wasn't ANYONE that was interested. Except a chick with a boyfriend that just wanted to talk, talk and talk. But then my spidey sense went off about why she wanted to move in two weeks and... it's because of a boyfriend. I don't even understand how I knew this but before this moment I honestly thought she was into me. Went for the number anyways and I don't think I'll ever hear back
--> she was happy to fucking talk though. Even though it was a direct approach and the boyfriend part didn't come up until I asked about it like... 8 minutes into the conversation? Honestly irritated the shit out of me, which is fine since it was my last approach of the day
Trying to include more open loops into the conversation. Although since I honestly don't have any real experience doing this on purpose, it's kind of on the backburner to keep working away on other stuff until they're habits first.
After writing all this out, I may be talking a little too fast during the initial opener. I'll try to experiment with slowing down more
But yeah... I'm asking for your guys' help again. Because after a daygame session (probably like 5-7 hours a day for a week straight) I feel like I'd have better luck throwing myself off a building than trying again. I seriously fucking hate day game but it's my only real option right now so I don't have a choice. It's this or nothing, so... I'll probably be back at it again tomorrow and hating my life tomorrow night lmao
Please help. I'm driving myself fucking crazy
Also; @ulrich I think this should answer a question you had from months ago before I had to take a break about an approach that you could critique. Hope this helps with that and hope the offer's still on the table
Here's my overall process/blueprint so if anyone has any ideas about where tweaks could be made I'm all ears (or rather... eyes I guess lol):
Approach
1) Fix state and relax my face. Go in with a calm, yet overall positive demeanor. Make sure to relax my face to where I'm wearing a little smirk as I walk around and with my eyebrows slightly up and engaged but relaxed
2) Double check my walk
3) See girl, walk up to her and as I get close call out "on your left" so I don't scare people. A lot of people have headphones so I'll walk slightly in front and look over with a little wave and a smile. Although some people look over and I'm like "I say that so I don't accidentally scare you as I walk past you. But honestly, by the way *opener*"
4) Excuse me *pause* I was walking *physically look to where I was to give her a chance to check me out* and when I saw you *pause* (today I've noticed that this pause needs to be done better, I don't pause much the second time) whatever I like about her
--> sometimes say I'd like to flirt with you, sometimes say I wanted to meet you. Depends on whatever I feel like saying honestly
--> also, if they jump a bit then I hold up my hands so they can see my palms, make sure to smile even harder and say whoops, didn't mean to scare you, but I saw you.... and deliver rest of opener
Reactions at this point:
Honestly most women are super happy that I approached them, even if they're not interested. A few are kinda meh but nobody's been upset in anyway
A few indirect approaches I've taken a liking to going in like this:
Whatever indirect subject pops into my head that's related to the environment. Then after they respond I'll ask how they're doing and when they politely ask me I'll say "well I'll be honest, I'd be a lot better if I knew your name" with a cheeky little smile. If that hits then cool, just keep going along the conversation as normal. If I feel like it didn't hit for some reason then I'll say "honestly, I just wanted to flirt with you, I'm blank"
After Approach -- Body Language
1) I make sure to stop walking so that they stop walking with me --> I noticed I had this mistake a lot in the past
2) As I'm introducing myself I watch how open her body language is. Most of the time it's around 70% open, which I try to mimic
3) Once she gets full open (so fully facing me) that's when I step out of the polite zone and into the intimate zone, or at least closer judging to see if she backs up at all. I do this while I'm talking to her and I like to make a big gesture and move as I'm adjusting myself because of the gesture. Or I'll even rock a bit and just kinda step into her then as well --> seems to go well
4) While not at the same time as stepping into her, this is also the point where I'll touch her arm. I'll do this as she laughs at something
--> though I'm thinking of just getting rid of touch altogether until I go for the number/date
5) Once fully open, that's when I'll start winding down the approach and go into my routine of asking for the number/date request.
After Approach -- Conversation
1) I'll ask what kinds of mischief/trouble/plans she has for the day
--> it's about a 40/60 split if she gives me something to riff off of. If she does then I continue the conversation from whatever she mentioned
2) If she doesn't give me something then I'll ask about what she likes to do
--> when she turns the conversation back to me, this allows me to talk about my creative pursuits
-----> I talk about whatever pops into my head that I enjoy and try to tailor 2/3 things to what I think she'll enjoy hearing more and 1/3 things that's a bit different. Sports, exploring/hiking/nature or writing poetry, dancing, traveling and etc. If I feel like it I'll make the joke that I'm a bit of a hobby junkie if I think it'll land better. If I think she'll take it well when she asks me what I do, then I'll make the "women mostly but twenty bucks is twenty bucks" joke that I enjoy. Then be like "yeah so anyways I enjoy blank blank blank"
3) During this time I'm also trying to play the reminds me of game that I got from Charisma on Command (you take something someone says and just say that reminds me of... whatever). I will especially do this when I get to talking about whatever she's passionate about and relate to it in some way
4) I'll also try and find anything to qualify her on that I genuinely like about whatever she's working towards
Overall, I try to keep my approaches around 5-10 minutes. Once it gets to the point where I think she's hooked I'll start winding it down
Winding Down Part
Sometimes I have to skip to this part if she's not giving me anything. Although from now on I'm thinking of just straight dropping them if I sense high walls without any warmth after a few minutes instead of even bothering to go for it. I'm never pleasantly surprised so fuck it
1) I love asking her what I should know about her. I'll usually preface it with something like, well before I let ya go what should I know about you? Something like that
2) I'll ask what they want to know about me and like... 80% of the time they'll ask what they should know about me, or what do I want to tell them. But sometimes I'll get a really cool question (like today a tall nerd with huge tits asked me what fantasy world I'd live in. Kind of a cool, if niche question)
--> here I take the opportunity to talk about how I'm passionate about psychology and that's what I'm trying to base the business that I'm building on *just a bait to see if they ask more about it, most do*. Then I can talk more about what it is and inject more of my own passion into the conversation
3) Then I'll say something like it was cool meeting them and ask if they like tea or if they like coffee more
--> whatever they say doesn't matter as long as it's not a nothing. Then I'll ask if they've ever been to blank before
Yes or no again it doesn't matter:
Yes --> then you already know how amazing they are!
No --> then you don't know how amazing they are!
4) We should grab a *whatever she said* some time soon. What's your schedule like
--> just kinda play off that
*hand her my phone* --> if I think she'll take it well I'll even make a fun sexual joke of "stick it in for me". Rarely will I do this though, depends on the girl
During The Approach
I'm trying to add in teases whenever possible, but it feels weird to add into the blueprint *okay tease here* lol. But I'm just looking out for opportunities
As noted above, I'm constantly watching her body and in particular how open she is to me as well as if she leans away or in as well.
Somehow girls always wanna know how long I've lived in KC or they ask where I live which leads to me saying how I moved last year (honestly not sure why, but like damn near every single girl asks me some version of this question). So it makes it easy to bring up Nashville and how I used to live there as well as how beautiful it is. Bridge that into eventually seeing if she wants to see some of my pictures on my phone that I took and how much I love waterfalls.
--> also makes it easy to see her motivations/travel aspirations herself. When the topic comes up I'll ask "You can go anywhere in the world you want to, what makes this place the place you need to be?" --> easy to get into travel from here as well
--> also pro tip that I learned the hard way one day long ago: ALWAYS hit the do not disturb button on your phone before handing the girl your phone. Honestly, before handing anyone your phone in my opinion, but definitely with women
Girls also like to ask "what do you do" and I always, always misinterpret it nowadays to "I love doing all kinds of things, a few examples are *blank and blank that I think she'll connect* as well as *blank that shows I'm my own person*". Very rarely will she ask later on what I do for work, which I find kinda odd, but whatever, answering the question that I want to answer instead works in my favor so fuck it
I used to deep-dive a lot during the approach because I genuinely enjoy it. But I've since scaled it waaaaay back. Now I'll ask a single deep-dive question as well as follow up on that one subject for like a minute or two. But it was advised that I don't go too hard on this. So I've scaled back a lot, think it helps a little. Every once in a while I'll ask 2 different deep-dive questions during the approach. But I definitely limit myself to 2 now at most
Texting
Anywhere from an hour to 2 hours later unless plans for later in the day were made in which case I text back immediately. I include my name and I try to include something that we talked about earlier in our conversation (I'll make a note on their contact in my phone so I don't forget). If she doesn't answer back then I'm getting to the point where I'll just delete them and move on now. Used to I'd wait 2-3 days and send a meme or something as a follow up but now I just move on
From here it's a bit of a crapshoot and depends on how long until the date. For one girl who I have a date scheduled with next Thursday (met on... Monday or Tuesday? Can't remember) I texted two days later, just asking her how she felt about random but hilarious short video clips. She was game so I sent her one I thought she'd like. Then I texted again tonight, a day later a beautiful picture of the park at night that I thought was super cool
--> will probably wait until Sunday or even Monday to text again. Just trying to vary it up while still pinging her every once in a while to say that hey, I'm still interested, I'm just not trying to get into a conversation is all. I've done the same strategies with online dating and for the same reason. From talking to other people this seems to be optimal as well, but I'm open to suggestions
If the date is 3 days away then I'll text after two days
If the date is 2 days away then I'll text once the day before
The day of the date I'll text around 11 am or so what color shirt I'll be wearing later. If they don't text back eventually then I don't show up
My texting process has gotten easier since I've included an easy to respond to something in my icebreaker to keep a lighter flow of the conversation going. This allows a smoother, more natural text the next day kinda thing since I can just wait until the next day to send a response, depending on how late it is
It's also a tell on how interested they are, at least, that was the idea behind it. I definitely get more replies which helps my morale, but as far as dates go I am not sure at all if it helps or not, to be honest
Things I'm Trying to Add In
In another thread Chase mentioned cold reads. I'm going to try and throw these into the mix. I tried earlier today with a girl who was absolutely stonewalling me to the point that I was like "there's no way she's interested" and even I was like it's cool if you want to leave. So needless to say that cold read was a bit jumbled up and I don't wanna get into that failure. I was going to stumble over that one no matter what anyways -- even gave her like 3 opportunities to just straight up leave but she didn't take any of them. She just kept smiling and even followed me as I went to a bench a little ways away (she wouldn't take either of my offers to sit with me though...) So friggin weird
Compliance --> I've gotten better at looking out for chances for compliance like come sit with me on this bench, or come over here and let's check this thing out that's pretty. Or even hey move over so these people can go past us. Etc.
--> I've been approaching mostly in a park so it's pretty easy to move a little bit. But could probably use a little more work
Lobo mentioned adding in more pauses to the getting her contact info par that I'll do. I didn't have a chance to do this today because there wasn't ANYONE that was interested. Except a chick with a boyfriend that just wanted to talk, talk and talk. But then my spidey sense went off about why she wanted to move in two weeks and... it's because of a boyfriend. I don't even understand how I knew this but before this moment I honestly thought she was into me. Went for the number anyways and I don't think I'll ever hear back
--> she was happy to fucking talk though. Even though it was a direct approach and the boyfriend part didn't come up until I asked about it like... 8 minutes into the conversation? Honestly irritated the shit out of me, which is fine since it was my last approach of the day
Trying to include more open loops into the conversation. Although since I honestly don't have any real experience doing this on purpose, it's kind of on the backburner to keep working away on other stuff until they're habits first.
After writing all this out, I may be talking a little too fast during the initial opener. I'll try to experiment with slowing down more
But yeah... I'm asking for your guys' help again. Because after a daygame session (probably like 5-7 hours a day for a week straight) I feel like I'd have better luck throwing myself off a building than trying again. I seriously fucking hate day game but it's my only real option right now so I don't have a choice. It's this or nothing, so... I'll probably be back at it again tomorrow and hating my life tomorrow night lmao
Please help. I'm driving myself fucking crazy
Also; @ulrich I think this should answer a question you had from months ago before I had to take a break about an approach that you could critique. Hope this helps with that and hope the offer's still on the table
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2012
- Messages
- 5,976
@Regal Tiger,
This post probably deserves a deeper analysis, but real quick, it looks like you are being rather rigid with your approaches and missing potential opportunities that might be there.
Some more flexibility is in order here.
A few quick things I noticed:
"What do you do" is actually an identity question. e.g., "What are you? How do I categorize you?"
If the answer is "a lot of things" it's almost like evasion, and she is left confused as to what you are.
If you don't want to tell her, you can give a jokey answer, like the old classic "I'm an ass model."
Or pick one thing that works as an identity for you: "I'm a dance instructor." Etc.
This may be impacting your success rates too, since a lot of girls will define you by the "what do you do" answer looking back: "Oh, it's that dance instructor I met earlier," "Oh, lol, that guy who said he was an ass model." It's a lot harder if she's saying to herself, "Oh, it's that guy who said he's a hobbyist with a lot of different interests?"
Did you start stacking compliance?
It is a funny thing, but occasionally you will encounter girls who give you nothing verbally, but if you start inviting them to do things, requesting they comply with things, and so on, they just do.
It's a good little trick to keep in your back pocket: "if she won't give you anything, but she's smiling, and she won't leave or imply you should go, start asking for compliance and see how far you can take things with her."
See if you can escalate it up to the point where she's walking back to your place with you.
You need to be testing the limits of what you think is possible to break out of the rut you're in. A lot of the time in pickup guys end up stuck within self-imposed walls ("I have to do X next... she couldn't possibly be ready for Y, so if she won't give me X I'm stuck!" --> try going for Y and see what happens. You'll learn something anyway!).
So:
She wanted a going away fling, man.
Here's a little assignment for the next week to get you out of the rut you're in and put your focus on something different:
Every girl you talk to for more than 5 minutes, ask her if she'd like to grab a coffee with you.
If she says yes, take her to a little cafe nearby wherever you are. If she says no, take that as your exit, but be cheerful, tell her, "All right, well I still want to grab a bite or a drink with you. Sometime in the next week, say?" If she says yes, take her contact.
Chase
This post probably deserves a deeper analysis, but real quick, it looks like you are being rather rigid with your approaches and missing potential opportunities that might be there.
Some more flexibility is in order here.
A few quick things I noticed:
"What do you do" is actually an identity question. e.g., "What are you? How do I categorize you?"
If the answer is "a lot of things" it's almost like evasion, and she is left confused as to what you are.
If you don't want to tell her, you can give a jokey answer, like the old classic "I'm an ass model."
Or pick one thing that works as an identity for you: "I'm a dance instructor." Etc.
This may be impacting your success rates too, since a lot of girls will define you by the "what do you do" answer looking back: "Oh, it's that dance instructor I met earlier," "Oh, lol, that guy who said he was an ass model." It's a lot harder if she's saying to herself, "Oh, it's that guy who said he's a hobbyist with a lot of different interests?"
Did you start stacking compliance?
It is a funny thing, but occasionally you will encounter girls who give you nothing verbally, but if you start inviting them to do things, requesting they comply with things, and so on, they just do.
It's a good little trick to keep in your back pocket: "if she won't give you anything, but she's smiling, and she won't leave or imply you should go, start asking for compliance and see how far you can take things with her."
See if you can escalate it up to the point where she's walking back to your place with you.
You need to be testing the limits of what you think is possible to break out of the rut you're in. A lot of the time in pickup guys end up stuck within self-imposed walls ("I have to do X next... she couldn't possibly be ready for Y, so if she won't give me X I'm stuck!" --> try going for Y and see what happens. You'll learn something anyway!).
So:
- Girl is leaving town in two weeks
- It'll be a big move, moving from living on her own to living with her boyfriend
- Her last hurrah, final two weeks of being quasi-single
- Really excited to talk to you, got the sense she was into you
- Hid the boyfriend, didn't mention for 8 minutes, until you outright asked
She wanted a going away fling, man.
Here's a little assignment for the next week to get you out of the rut you're in and put your focus on something different:
Every girl you talk to for more than 5 minutes, ask her if she'd like to grab a coffee with you.
If she says yes, take her to a little cafe nearby wherever you are. If she says no, take that as your exit, but be cheerful, tell her, "All right, well I still want to grab a bite or a drink with you. Sometime in the next week, say?" If she says yes, take her contact.
Chase
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2021
- Messages
- 1,927
First of all, it's not clear from this post exactly where you are not living up to your expectations:
- Is it opening?
- Is it number closing?
- Is it getting dates?
- Is it getting her home?
- Is it overcoming LMR?
As they say you can't manage what you can't (or won't) measure. If you don't have a clear idea of what results to expect, you cannot work your way toward a target.
...
My sense however is that your problem is that you lack intent. For example, you say: "Once fully open, that's when I'll start winding down the approach". What does 'fully open' mean? Is it a point that represents the completion of an experience that will make her want to see you again? What do you think is a good enough experience that she'll want a repeat performance (or more)?
Intent is a very difficult thing to explain. I've heard it described by seduction gurus with the question 'does she know you have a cock?' which I suppose is a fairly good starting point. The way I like to think of it is as 'forward momentum'.
...
Let's say you have two large balls rolling down a hill, one of them is foam and the other one is solid steel. Obviously the steel one has far more momentum. The hill contains some fairly light obstacles, the kind you might see on an ordinary hill.
When you see these balls rolling down the hill, your first thought is 'what are they going to hit?'. So your mind projects forward in time along the paths of the balls. However, the difference is that for the foam one, you project only a few metres ahead. Nothing immediately ahead? OK. It probably won't get far, some little bush will probably stop it dead.
Now for the steel one. Instinctively, you project way further ahead, hundreds of metres, even to the horizon. Because you know that no ordinary obstacle will even slow this one down.
What is the difference here? The difference is that the steel ball has a presence that extends miles in front of it, whereas the foam one has a presence that only extends a few metres. Which one is more impressive? And which one will stay on your mind, making you think about where it's going and what it's going to be doing, long after you are no longer in its actual presence? That night, you will lie there thinking about what the steel ball is doing right now, maybe you will even get up and go and try to find it again.
This is how women think of men. The forward momentum that a man has hypnotizes her. When it's powerful, she needs to know where he's going, what he's doing, to be near him and feel him and perceive his effects on the world and on herself.
...
So beyond analogies, what is intent really, in the context of seduction? Well, going up to a girl you don't know and talking to her is no normal thing. Everyone knows this. Congratulations, you have just shown intent and forward momentum far beyond that of the ordinary man. This hooks her hard, this is why reacts positively, and she followed you around even though she didn't seem to be giving any green lights. She needed to know what was going on, to see what would come of the extraordinary first impression.
Now here I believe is the problem. The interaction after that represents a steel ball slowing down, discarding momentum, and becoming lighter. When you have a 'normal conversation' - which represents a foam ball - all the energy of the initial approach is shed.
While she is standing next to the steel ball, that she saw rolling down the hill with so much momentum, she's still hooked by that initial impression - even if the ball stopped moving or turned into something else. It takes a while for impressions to wear off.
But afterward, when she's home alone, after the impression wears off? 'Oh, that steel ball? Yeah it looked like it was up to something, but it seems like it just slowed down. I'm not feeling it any more'. Forgotten by next week.
How to continue to show intent throughout the interaction? You can do whatever works for you, but personally I like to rock her around a bit with my eye contact, proximity, and touch. I want to see the gears in her mind whirring, going 'um this is .. unusual .. but it feels good. Who is he?'.
There is a concept I like that I've heard James Marshall (someone I've learned a lot from) describe as 'pressure and release'. It basically means, increase and release the pressure in waves, using your body language and words. Put her on the spot (but not so much she's uncomfortable), and then reward her with a smile, compliment, etc to release the tension. Doing this over and over again is very very seductive and exhilarating for her and leaves her with a very strong impression of your energy.
...
I believe that human interactions can be described in physics terminology, because human interactions are energy exchanges. Women in particular pay no attention to words, but only to energy. That guy who has soft, fuzzy energy who asked me out? Nice guy, assigned to geostationary orbit. That guy who exudes potent, focused energy who barely looked at me out of the corner of his eye? Let me find a way to get closer.
Especially in day game, where there is no pounding music, flashing lights, and alcohol to do the job of creating energy, you must create and manage it yourself, you must find a way to show her the raw nature of your energy, and what pleasure it can give her to absorb it, in a socially acceptable and seductive way.
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Wut... really!?
In that case I suppose I'll just stick with what I'm trying to become
I find it difficult to wrap my head around but I'll commit to it for at least 50 approaches and give it a shot to see what happens
I tried. Come.with me over to this bench -- followed me
Sit with me -- didn't want to. Tried again like 2 minutes later
At this point I was so flabbergasted that I just kinda went for the number routine instead. She never texted back. Still confuses me
I'll definitely keep it in mind!
Edit: I probably instead could have had her follow me around the entire park instead. Like after a minute of not sitting with me (she was standing and again, I gave her like 3 chances to just up and leave but she never did cuz I was so confused) I could have gotten up and had her follow me to a different area of the park
Looking back I could have tried something like that for the compliance side of things
This is something that I could probably do more of in general actually. Not just in the park but kinda everywhere (window shopping adventure for a few minutes)
But I did try, honest lol! I asked her what she has going on for the rest of the night. I suggested she check out some cozy spots in the park (the middle where it's dark as fuck and nobody can see, also it was like 9 at night so it was hard to see anyways). Nope she wanted to stick to the loop
Waited a few minutes
She asked me where I live then I asked her where she lived. She said she lived close and I don't remember exactly what I said but I tried suggesting a movie but she got kind of uncomfortable so just decided to call it and try for the number and another day instead
So maybe I didn't go about it right, I dunno :/
Was a little afraid of pushing too hard honestly
I do try instant dates when the girl has an open schedule (I remember from Hector's course that the first question should be what the girl's doing that day). Last week I even had one -- logistically I messed up (the place I tried was closed). But I thought I did an okay-ish pivot
Plus I looked up places that are open a little later so that doesn't happen again lol
But yeah! I'll definitely give the identity thing a try. I'm still working on doing better with compliance. I have no idea why but it doesn't come as easily to me as other stuff
And I am on the lookout for instant date opportunities, promise lol
I have the flexibility thread opened in another tab. I'll read it after this tab or the next, can't remember which.
Also, I tried to make a little blueprint to kind of fall back on when I'm unsure of what to do next. But it's not something I stick to if my gut tells me to try something else. At least most of the time, there was a girl from like... 4 days ago (?) that looking back I shoulda gave her a few more minutes I think. But she was also with her mom so that was in my head
Hmmm... typing this out I may still be dealing with fear actually... I guess I do feel some still from a few years ago? I dunno
EDIT: after reading and answering will, I definitely do... damn
I don't feel AA except for the first approach of the day (sometimes I bitch out on an approach but it's literally always only the first one, the others I let go are from apathy). But I guess I am still a little messed up from what happened
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Dates would be the successful target to hit/measure
From there, in my mind, it's something entirely different to measure. If that makes sense
Good point
Fully open means to me that she is fully facing me and I'm fully facing her
You mention down below pressure and release along with the balls rolling down the hill. I'll try to shift gears mentally and see what happens with that, that could be it
This is a very good analogy I believe. I'll try to see what I can do about that
But yeah, I don't have to think about it much to know that I would be more on the lighter side. I'll try to see what I can do to get more towards the heavier side
Just from reading this it kinda does sound like my problem
Do you mind elaborating here? I think you could be onto something
I'll try to look up some stuff about tension and go from there!
I agree
Thanks so much for the analogy! I think you're into something so with the stuff Chase mentioned, I'll try to see what I can do about them
I'll commit to 50 after I get an idea about how to tackle the tension part and let y'all know!
Thanks! @Will_V @Chase
EDIT: actually I may take a week to try and work on something internally first. While thinking about your ball rolling analogy it got me thinking about some deep rooted fear that still lingers
If my problem is intent or state control I can override it on the approach, no problem. But once I got a million different things to focus on during the approach I can't maintain it I don't believe so there's not much point without dealing with the root cause first
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Hey @Regal Tiger, I love that you keep taking action.
Chase and Will V already gave amazing feedback so I’m going to focus on some things that don’t match for me.
1) Why are your daygame sessions lasting 5-6 hours? Are you approaching dozens?
If so, what are your rates?
- Opening to hook rate
- Hook to number rate
- Number to date rate
2) Are you trying to set instadates?
Seems like you hit it off with some of these girls but you default to go for the number.
Overall I think you have a great process that probably just need small adjustments.
However, the big theme I see here is that you are doing LOTS of introspection.
A lot of the comments are about how you feel, what you thought, how you reacted.
That is great but it’s half the story.
I’d also like to read about how does the girl look like, what she says and WHAT SHE FEELS.
A big part of this is trying to understand what goes through the girls mind and reacting accordingly.
Perhaps it feels too rigid for you because you’re trying to follow a set of (very well defined rules) but neglecting to adapt to the girl in turn and live the moment.
Chase and Will V already gave amazing feedback so I’m going to focus on some things that don’t match for me.
1) Why are your daygame sessions lasting 5-6 hours? Are you approaching dozens?
If so, what are your rates?
- Opening to hook rate
- Hook to number rate
- Number to date rate
2) Are you trying to set instadates?
Seems like you hit it off with some of these girls but you default to go for the number.
Overall I think you have a great process that probably just need small adjustments.
However, the big theme I see here is that you are doing LOTS of introspection.
A lot of the comments are about how you feel, what you thought, how you reacted.
That is great but it’s half the story.
I’d also like to read about how does the girl look like, what she says and WHAT SHE FEELS.
A big part of this is trying to understand what goes through the girls mind and reacting accordingly.
Perhaps it feels too rigid for you because you’re trying to follow a set of (very well defined rules) but neglecting to adapt to the girl in turn and live the moment.
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I'm walking around a lot. I don't count the approaches, but on average I would say I get like 2 in an hour I guess?
Damn... honestly thinking about it now... I don't get that many approaches for all the time I put into it. Although I'm also thinking mostly about these past few days which are the only ones that I can remember. I do know that they were well below what I'd normally see out and about
The previous days were better, but I don't remember how many approaches I woulda gotten in
It's usually either a hook or some version of I'm not interested since I go direct
Something I've gotten an abnormally large number of this past week is "I'm moving across country in a week". So far none of them have been up for a whirlwind romance before they leave to remember KC by
To be more specific... maybe 1 in 3 or so? Maybe 1 in 4 opening to hook rate? Somewhere in there
Even though it depresses me I could start jotting down stats again if you'd like
I'd say I get more numbers than are actually interested. If I'm in a conversation it's weird that there's not a number exchange. So I'd say like 70% of the time if she's in conversation with me she's comfortable giving me her number
But this percentage is about to drop dramatically just for my own sanity. If I don't sense that she's 100% fully on board I might just start dropping her and not even bothering to move forward
Lol
I've had 1 date so far. We were scheduled for a second date in an hour but I just got a text about something wrong at her work so that's cancelled.
Trying to set up with another girl for tomorrow
And then a date for next week's Thursday
But as far as dates that actually follow through? I've been one 1 unless you count that instant date last week who is moving and not interested, so 2 I guess
--> she never responded to my funny Aquafina text either :/
I ask what they've got going on for that day. If they don't have anything then I go for the instant date. Most do have stuff to do though
For example, the girl I'm trying to set it up with tomorrow I tried for the instant date but she was adamant about continuing her walk until 8. So we made plans for after.
I called her at 8 and it went straight to voicemail. Then I got a text around 10 saying that she saw the call but it said spam risk... which baffles me to no end but okay. Like you didn't check the voicemail for 2 hours? Also why would my Google Voice number that I literally only use for women have a spam risk?
Something seems off with that excuse but whatever
Noticing people are supremely busy right now which is weird
Now that I think about it this wasn't really an instant date, but there was another girl that I ended up talking to in the park for like a half hour or so. I don't really count that as a date either though. She never responded
Most women are pretty happy on the initial approach. I guess it's just normal conversation though, but to get more details I could focus on remembering more of that other stuff on the next try
I don't feel like it's rigid, personally. I just like to have an idea in my head to fall back on as well as steps to progress. That's kind of the idea I have in my head but it's not something that I stick to religiously
Hope that clarifies
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The simplest way to put it, is that when you apply pressure on someone, they have two choices: leave, or invest.
And those things that we invest in are the things we value.
If there is no investment, the experience lacks meaning, and the impression fades.
If she invests, and is rewarded, over and over again, she experiences the greatest satisfaction: to perform successfully in life. But if she was never required to perform, what meaning has the success (if it is even a success, if it was so easily gotten)? The experience does not reveal anything to her about herself, it doesn't give her an opportunity to grow.
If you just go and have a conversation with her, without applying pressure, without asking her indirectly 'Can you keep up? Are you game? Can you handle this? Show me who you are, what you got, prove yourself to me' then it is nothing more than an exchange of words.
Many things in game are based on creating a sense of her having to prove herself even after you went up to her yourself and put yourself on the spot.
If I hold steady eye contact or step close to her, I am saying 'can you handle this?'. If I do it with the right calibration, she will handle it, and then I can reward her. And then she thinks 'what will he ask me to handle next?' and starts getting excited.
Even an approach (and this is something a lot of guys don't realize) is a question 'can you handle this?'. She experiences nervousness, excitement, anxiety, etc, she might feel like it's easier to walk off (as some girls do) but if she stays and handles it and is rewarded, she feels great about herself. 'I can keep up with you! Try me again.'
A lot of the time though, she gets a burst of this excitement, but it fades into boring conversation and expectations based on nothing more than familiarity. That's when she decides not to text back. 'Game's over' she thinks. 'Guess that's all there was'.
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I've had issues with fatigue and foot problems from daygame. I think I've finally solved them completely. The key was in being really consistent about following a couple pre and post outing habits.
1. Insoles for your shoes. the best ones I found were really cheap on Amazon and were cushiony throughout the entire foot. before I picked insoles that just gave arch support but the balls of my feet would start to hurt after a few weeks. so proper memory foam throughout made a difference
2. After the outing, ice my legs and feet. I bought one of those clay ice packs from Walgreens and it works better than using actual ice because you don't have to worry about water leaking out and getting everywhere. Ice-ing my feet made a big difference the next morning when I woke up.
3. electrolytes. This was a new discovery for me but a total game changer. once I started drinking water with electrolytes in the morning before the outing, I stopped getting that post daygame outing fatigue. I use unflavored liquid electrolytes and I also drink a glass after I get back. but I noticed the glass before was really important.
Mainly the issue is, you're walking around in the sun for a couple hours so there will be a lot of fatigue from that.
Normally I don't have many issues with the rest of my legs unless it's been a while since I've gone out. then I do get sore. I also added two 30 min runs every week on the treadmill, and I go hard. I do those on days when I'm not daygaming.
And of course getting enough sleep, otherwise the above tips will stop working after a couple days
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This this, girls wanna feel rewarded for learning, growing, enjoying a man's presence, being useful to him in some way, as long as he's a valueable guy to them, a "worthy man".
I like how you detail the emotional rollercoster girls wanna go throught
Yeah I guess I've been pushing it way too hard with girls lately, but again, I'm on a LTR with a girl I love, so if a girl wants part of my time, she better be awesome. Your perspective in game is sound @Will_V, I wanna read more about this higher level stuff if you can take the time to write it here (or maybe it even on an article on GC hehe, I think that would be nice content).
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I think I need some of those, I have a nice pair of Vans sk8 hi, but I use them so much the sole on the right one is very messed up already. I was out skating Saturday and I think I pushed a bit too far, I was trying to go throught the park near my appartment really fast without stopping, but then my feet was hurting afterwards. I get a bit bummed out though that a shoe this stylish has so little to offer in terms of actually resisting (those aren't cheap either, at least not here by Braziland standards lol).,
Nice tips overall @Skippy, nice to see you here still!
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Glad you enjoyed it!
I'm not sure I'm ready to write articles yet. When I see something I can sometimes relate and explain things in a way that people intuitively grasp, in a way that enables them to draw together the fragments of their experiences into something with a little more clarity. If you ask me about something, I can tell you everything I know about it. But to sit down and write a comprehensive thesis on some topic .. maybe some day I will feel capable of doing that. I'm still in the process of adding to the variety of my experience, and enjoying the journey.
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@Regal Tiger reading your experiences daygaming it reminds me a lot of myself. We have a similiar process from opening, sticking points, internal frustrations,trying to troubleshoot all that. I can't recall where you wrote it, but you said you do all your daygame sessions in a park? I've actually noticed that it's much better to daygame in a park then on the streets especially in my city. I don't know why I didn't go to parks earlier when I was higher momentum, doing coaching and making beginner gains. I think I went to smaller parks where more people are around to witness, but I could've easily gone to the bigger parks . Women are more relaxed and open and you can easily ask for compliance or get a instadate (which I wish gc had more articles that went more into depth on it's a pretty neccesary component for daygame). I even witness other guys gaming girls and I can tell they just approached them. From looking at their body language, the distance they're standing apart to hearing things like " how long you in the city for" or "nice meeting you" lol.
Although I gotta give it to you man you seem more hungrier and consistent than I am. I'm pretty inconsistent with going out and my ego will come up with reasons not to go out. I also take a lot of interactions too personally and interpret things negatively even when they're not as bad as I make them out to be. I'm thinking i'm gonna crossgame soon and do some nightgame. Although I hate dealing with groups and how nasty and entitled some girls act at night. Not to mention the competition and amogers.
I hope you crack the code man I really do. Any progress or developments you make I could learn from it and implement it for myself. Some of us can relate to your struggle and we're rooting for you!
Ps: Btw I wasn't liking you talking about wanting to throw yourself off a building I was showing support for everything else lol
Although I gotta give it to you man you seem more hungrier and consistent than I am. I'm pretty inconsistent with going out and my ego will come up with reasons not to go out. I also take a lot of interactions too personally and interpret things negatively even when they're not as bad as I make them out to be. I'm thinking i'm gonna crossgame soon and do some nightgame. Although I hate dealing with groups and how nasty and entitled some girls act at night. Not to mention the competition and amogers.
I hope you crack the code man I really do. Any progress or developments you make I could learn from it and implement it for myself. Some of us can relate to your struggle and we're rooting for you!
Ps: Btw I wasn't liking you talking about wanting to throw yourself off a building I was showing support for everything else lol
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Good news boys, I found a magical unicorn during daygame!
Someone who is crazy passionate about social justice and is a hardcore gender warrior AND who is a virgin until marriage!
Beat that!
Fucks sake if I didn't have bad luck I wouldn't have luck at all lmao. It's so disproportionately dumbfounding all I can do is laugh
Although on the way home I started thinking about why I keep attracting types like these, which got me to thinking about a quote I always liked "You cannot choose who you are attracted to but you can control who you attract". This got me to thinking about energies/emotional states/vibes whatever you wanna call it
If you've ever watched The Mentalist then you'll know the main character Patrick Jane. That's like the pinnacle of who I think I could be as a person and be happy with being. Although I fall short, I have taken quite a bit from that character and even named my default emotional state after:
Playful, energetic, intelligent, doesn't take anything too seriously, observant and calming. I can't tell you how many people have told me how much calmer they feel around me and I quite enjoy that.
But I think this is deficient. So a few things that I'm going to try and change up a bit is strengthening that emotional state and adhering to it better. Because who I am as a person is a bit more chaotic than that and I'm basically a big kid. But if I lead with sexuality I think it's overpowering for people...
So I'm going to think more about who I'm trying to attract and we'll see what happens afterwards.
Posting here and in my journal because... seriously, how fucking nutty is it to find two polar opposite and extremely unpleasant extremes in the same person? Like... wtf
Someone who is crazy passionate about social justice and is a hardcore gender warrior AND who is a virgin until marriage!
Beat that!
Fucks sake if I didn't have bad luck I wouldn't have luck at all lmao. It's so disproportionately dumbfounding all I can do is laugh
Although on the way home I started thinking about why I keep attracting types like these, which got me to thinking about a quote I always liked "You cannot choose who you are attracted to but you can control who you attract". This got me to thinking about energies/emotional states/vibes whatever you wanna call it
If you've ever watched The Mentalist then you'll know the main character Patrick Jane. That's like the pinnacle of who I think I could be as a person and be happy with being. Although I fall short, I have taken quite a bit from that character and even named my default emotional state after:
Playful, energetic, intelligent, doesn't take anything too seriously, observant and calming. I can't tell you how many people have told me how much calmer they feel around me and I quite enjoy that.
But I think this is deficient. So a few things that I'm going to try and change up a bit is strengthening that emotional state and adhering to it better. Because who I am as a person is a bit more chaotic than that and I'm basically a big kid. But if I lead with sexuality I think it's overpowering for people...
So I'm going to think more about who I'm trying to attract and we'll see what happens afterwards.
Posting here and in my journal because... seriously, how fucking nutty is it to find two polar opposite and extremely unpleasant extremes in the same person? Like... wtf
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It's all good man, I appreciate the kind words. And definitely good luck with the cross gaming! I've zero experience with it but from what I've heard it's a different animal altogether. Maybe someone else can confirm? If I do end up figuring it out it'll be somewhere on this website lol
However, I wouldn't say I'm hungrier than most people. I'm just literally obsessed and fucking pissed off at this point. This has to work because if I can't make it work then there's honestly nothing to live for, for me.
Companionship is a central and core need to who I am as a human being. Without it, there's honestly no point in living for me. That's why I'm so obsessed. If I can't make this work then... well I won't be here
The same thing with my business. The only difference is that this is more important to me, even if it's not logically more important to my life
When I say that I need to learn this shit, I honestly mean need. I don't mean want because I fucking hate this bullshit. But I need it :/
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Thats great luck!! And just outside of her natural habitat.
Those unicorns usually inhabit the internet and dating apps.
Seems like a good luck omen.
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Take her virginity then tell her Ukraine is a part of Russia as you lie there in the afterglow.
This is a very good realization, and a great exercise.
If you're not already doing visualization, make sure you put that into the mix too. It's a big help:
5 Steps that Let You Visualize Anything into Reality
If you're the kind of hard-nosed, stubborn-headed realist I am, things like visualization usually sound like some kind of hippie-ish New Age flimflam to you the first 10 or 12 times you hear about them. That's how it was for me anyway, and I'd always laugh a little and shake my head dismissively...
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