Hitting the Plateau

[Estate]

Hey guys,
I hate to post a negative thread. The past year+ has been amazing. I've met, dating, and slept with far more women in that time that I had in my whole life before up to that point. But this is hard to admit. I'm feeling a bit unfulfilled right now.

With all of those women, it feels like the same pattern over and over. We meet, have a good time then be it a week, a month, 2 months, whatever... it just runs its course. Either on their part or on mine it just seems to fizzle out and I sometimes don't really know why. I'm at a point where I'd like a girlfriend, or something a little more. It's great meeting and having fun with women, but it's a strange feeling, once they walk out of my apartment, there's no "nice" feeling, just more like "Well, that was a fun evening, she's clearly not taking this seriously though, on to the next..."

Last night I went to a few bars and barely really made a decent approach. The motivation was lacking. While I knew I *could* pick up a woman or get her number, I just didn't feel it. Lots of women around but nobody that I didn't feel "meh" about. It would have just been something in the moment that I knew I wouldn't be interested in pursuing longer term so wasn't even interested in going through the motions of trying to pick them up. I just wasn't feeling it. Sure, I might get a number, a date, I might sleep with someone, but it just doesn't feel like a "win" anymore. A win would be something more eventually coming of it. But I'm worn out of the same routine, we meet, we see each other for a bit, and then it's over. More time passes by, maybe I've met more women, but none of them really become part of my life.

I haven't had a girlfriend in about 2 years now. I know this will sound silly, but my last 2 girlfriends were great. Both in looks, personality, ambitions and achievements, etc... Obviously I sort of fell into those relationships as I didn't know what I was doing at the time. It's not like I'm hung up on these girls still. It ended a long time ago. But given that I've had some great girlfriends, and now have learned to meet and sleep with some fantastic women, my standards seem to be stupid. I'm just not willing to settle for anything less than what I really want, while at the same time, when you try to actually be with women in the upper echelons, the amount of crap that seems to come with it, just bores me. There's too may games, they want to show you need to compete. While I could easily slip into "chasing" mode to get them, I know I can just meet another girl elsewhere to sleep with who won't be such a pain to be with.

Weird post, I know. My heads a bit all over with it. In so many ways I've come so far. But on the other hand, there's still a little empty feeling that all this work hasn't really resulted in anything meaningful yet.

 

[Marty]

Estate:

I may be reading too much into this, but:

Last night I went to a few bars and barely really made a decent approach. The motivation was lacking. While I knew I *could* pick up a woman or get her number, I just didn't feel it.

Are you making a habit of this? If it's a LTR you're after, I hardly think bars are the right approach location.

Pre-Girls Chase, all of the girlfriends I had I'd met from very distant, peripheral social circle: essentially university or work, but never an immediate colleague or fellow-student. I know that's not cold approach, but those are essentially daytime pursuits.

I can't even imagine starting a relationship with someone I met in a bar, and crucially, I don't think many women can either. For starters, the sort of women I'd like to date don't even go to bars most of the time.

Night-game seems ideally suited to quick lays and flings of a month or two that you're describing. It sounds as if you're very solid in cold approach and have excellent fundamentals (likely much better than me on both counts), so if I were you I'd focus on the girls you meet in the daytime. For city-dwellers like yourself, parks, busy downtown streets, malls, transit and especially grocery stores are an excellent option. With the latter, if you go for the higher-class locations such as Whole Foods or Trader Joe's (whether or not you actually buy your own groceries there), you obviously get the higher-class women as part of the package.

The other advantage of the "trendy" locations is that more of the women are single; happily-married women shop in more "sensible" places like Kroger, from what they tell me (they have actual concern for the family budget as opposed to appearance, image and self-absorption).

Just a thought.

-Marty

 

[Richard]

Estate,

I know your pain buddy. I hit a dry rut a few months after being able to consistently pull women, like you said it's fun and exciting but that glamor eventually wears off. Because of the situation I went through I was throwing out my 2 cents to new guys about constantly meeting and sleeping with new women - it eventually leaves you feeling empty and plateaued.

But given that I've had some great girlfriends, and now have learned to meet and sleep with some fantastic women, my standards seem to be stupid. I'm just not willing to settle for anything less than what I really want, while at the same time, when you try to actually be with women in the upper echelons, the amount of crap that seems to come with it, just bores me. There's too may games, they want to show you need to compete. While I could easily slip into "chasing" mode to get them, I know I can just meet another girl elsewhere to sleep with who won't be such a pain to be with.

This is something I have come to strongly dislike about having an abundance mentality while being a firm relationship guy as well. You can sleep with the women who will give you no problems because you know that the women who give you shit, and come with baggage can be tossed to the wind. But, the women you easily sleep with are not relationship material either. Even now I'm kinda going through this because I just broke up with the greatest girlfriend I've ever had because I'm moving in Fall and there is no more room for us to grow so I'm currently single, fucking around, wanting a strong relationship instead of casual fuck buddies.

When I hit my first plateau, I pushed even harder and slept with even more women and one of them ended up being the girlfriend I just recently broke up with. After this break up, in the midst of email chatting with Chase, he told me this:

On the girlfriend deal... just set your goal as "Stay single for as LONG as possible and rack up as MANY new notches as possible" or even more specific, like "One new lay per calendar week for the next 6 months / 1 year" and you will have an amazing new girlfriend before you know it... never fails.

In an ironic way, this is kind of what I did to get my great girlfriend. I'm not sure this has helped you any buddy - but I do wish you luck in your plateau. It sounds like you need to find the motivation to get back at it and spice things up.

-Richard

 

[Franco]

Estate,

I kind of have to agree with Marty on this one. It sounds like you're after a relationship, and if the "single, one-night stand" lifestyle isn't getting you what you want right now, then you need to think practically and do what you can to increase your odds of getting what you want. Although I met my current girlfriend at a bar, I also recognize the fact that the odds for finding girlfriends there are drastically lower than what you can achieve through day game.

I think that one thing you need to ponder about is whether or not you actually still enjoy going to bars just to go to bars, at least at the moment. The reason I currently love night game is that I love being in the club environment and I have a strong passion for electronic music; when I go out to bars/clubs at night, it's basically a fun thing I get to do on the weekends (often with friends), and there just happens to be the added bonus of attractive women being there, so I might as well see if I can get any phone numbers or a lay in the meantime due to the convenience.

Right now, it seems like you aren't enjoying going out all that much, and you're also not enjoying one-night stands anymore. That's not a good combination. If you're looking for something more serious and bars/clubs are starting to bore you a bit more, then you really need to consider doing day game to meet women. Your odds of solidifying a hot girlfriend are just astoundingly better for many reasons, including the fact that women have their guards down in day game and are much more attracted to men who do something completely out of the ordinary -- in this case, approach her in the daytime (something that probably doesn't ever happen to some women in their entire lifetime).

Anyway, I just wanted to throw my two cents in on this. Ironically, I'm in the reverse position where I've had an amazing girlfriend for almost a year now, but I'm starting to miss picking up beautiful girls and just sleeping with them without the nuances that always come with being committed to a girl. I think guys have a natural tendency to want to jump back and forth based on what you've had and what you've been missing after a lengthy period of time. =)

- Franco

 

[Estate]

Thanks for the input guys.

Yeah you all sort of have a point. Might sound counter intuitive but I DO enjoy going out at night on the weekends. Other priorities have meant that going out 3/4/5 nights is just interfering with other things in life which I want to be able to give my all to as well.

Last weekend it was a case of... It was a long week and I am travelling get all this week for work so I was REALLY looking forward to a night out. But a night of just having my own fun. Some beers, music, friends...maybe even women... just not "going through the motions" of a pickup. It's two fold. I'm in a transition with some friends. They are wearing out their shelflife. I like their company but picking up around them is a nightmare. They know I can garner some attention then use it to try steal the girls and it ultimately blows us all out as they are not the best guys with women... though I have fun with them outside of that.. but now it's like they come out... expect me to bring women to the group.. then proceed to drive the women away again. It takes effort.. effort I just haven't been in the mood to expend.

I sort of am I a phase where I'd like 1 girl. Hookups are not fulfilling anymore. The whole routine of picking someone up, taking her home (maybe we see each other for a few weeks) but then bye bye is just feeling a bit "meh". It's fun if I'm in the mood but I won't deny sort of wanting more than that.

I'll try get out during the day more. Admittedly New England does is woeful for day game during the winter but Spring is here... people are out and about again.. I've been focusing on night time for a while now more so than day time.

 

[Marty]

Admittedly New England does is woeful for day game during the winter but Spring is here... people are out and about again..

There are always malls, underground complexes (e.g. those associated with major rail or subway stations in a large metropolis), food courts (during your weekday lunch-hour), etc.—I learned quickly that day-game does not necessarily imply "outdoor". It may be raining, it may be actually too hot in the middle of the day (a problem where I'm at right now), it may be snowing. A little imagination will hand you the solution: anywhere that unknown people congregate in large numbers is likely to turn up a fair number of attractive females.

 

[Estate]

Thanks Marty.
I know there's lots of indoor venues. It is part of being in NE that there's a bit of hibernation during winter months. Students leave for family during holidays and Those inside venues Just don't draw crowds save for a week or so around Christmas shopping. It's just one of those things even the locals talk about. Your best bet of finding a lot of people is nightlife for those who brave the cold even if numbers are down.

Spring is here now so it's the opposite. People won't stay inside!

It's a little different to Ireland in this way. Where the weather is never really awesome so people just get on with it and go out year round despite it.

Out of iinterest. Since I've been slacking at day game a little for a while and night game was sufficient. What is your guys approach? Mainly direct or a sort of indirect like ask a question to get talking? While the direct is most "efficient" to screen and move on if need be.. I always find it a bit "off" for me at least. Puts you right in recovery mode if she's not instantly attracted.

 

[Franco]

Estate,

I would start with trying out indirect-direct for day game. Most guys use situational openers and then give a direct compliment shortly after they've gotten her attention. I think this is a good start, although you can always experiment with direct openers as well. =)

- Franco

 

[Marty]

Franco, I have a question on this:

women have their guards down in day game and are much more attracted to men who do something completely out of the ordinary -- in this case, approach her in the daytime (something that probably doesn't ever happen to some women in their entire lifetime)

You've said this before and I want to believe it, and indeed I have collected some evidence in favor—like a girl who actually thanked me yesterday for stopping her in the street a couple weeks before, and then promptly kissed me to show she meant it seconds later—BUT still I have some latent skepticism, which you can perhaps help to dispel.

On another thread, you wrote:

You're offering supply for something that isn't in demand for women (sex).

Sex is not in demand for women, apparently. Yet women, as we all know, love sex. Therefore, they must be sated. They must be getting enough of what they love to see them through.

Thing is, where are they getting all this sex? If they're in a sexually satisfying relationship, that's fair enough, but what about the single girls? If they like nightlife, again, it's easy, but the majority probably don't... even most highly sexual girls would seldom be seen in a bar. Social circle, for its part, presents assorted reputational hazards, and now you say they don't get approached in the daytime either.

Poor girls.

I'm not sure what "enough" means, exactly, but from my own relationship experiences I'd guess that women would desire sexual activity once every couple days at least during the more fertile half of their monthly cycle, with much less or none during menstruation itself and in the week preceding.

So I'm just wondering how all these evidently highly-satisfied women are, not to put too fine a point upon it, getting their rocks off.

-Marty

 

[Franco]

Marty,

A couple things things here... on this:

You're offering supply for something that isn't in demand for women (sex).

Sex is not in demand for women, apparently. Yet women, as we all know, love sex. Therefore, they must be sated. They must be getting enough of what they love to see them through.

Let's say a girl had a full box of Hershey's Kisses. She doesn't really like Hershey's Kisses, but she definitely has plenty available should she feel like indulging in them. However, what she would REALLY like to have is a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup. She doesn't have ANY of those, and she would certainly make much more effort to get some of it. While both Hershey's Kisses and Reese's Peanut Butter Cups both contain "chocolate," one GREATLY satisfies what the women desires while the other is mediocre and readily available at a moment's notice should she want any.

The average guy offering sex is a Hershey's Kisses. Women have plenty of them available at a moment's notice, but it doesn't necessarily mean she wants them. So she has the supply (even though she doesn't always indulge), and as a result, there is no demand.

The rare, sexy and masculine man is the Reese's Peanut Butter Cup. She has none of those, and although he still offers her something similar to what she already has available (sex), she wants dominant sex she can get from a truly masculine and sexual man that gives her an entirely different experience from what sex from an unattractive, unsexy man would give her.

See the difference?

I'm not sure what "enough" means, exactly, but from my own relationship experiences I'd guess that women would desire sexual activity once every couple days at least during the more fertile half of their monthly cycle, with much less or none during menstruation itself and in the week preceding.

So I'm just wondering how all these evidently highly-satisfied women are, not to put too fine a point upon it, getting their rocks off.

This depends on the woman, her upbringing, and her experience. The majority of women masturbate rather regularly (and not necessarily to porn, but to whatever turns them on), so that they are regularly "getting their rocks off" so to speak. Some even watch porn religiously and are addicted to it. Others just close their eyes and use a vibrator or imagine them having sex with a masculine, dominant man.

Women with many partners and more experience will often just not have a problem meeting an average guy at a bar that checks off most of her requirements for a sexual partner and just have a quick fling for the night. The more conservative types don't go this route though.

Anyway, the point is here that the majority of women finds ways to get themselves off sexually, especially as they mature more. You'll just never find out about it so that they don't portray themselves as sexual deviants.

- Franco

 

[Marty]

Franco:

See the difference?

I do indeed!

The majority of women masturbate rather regularly ... Others just close their eyes and use a vibrator or imagine them having sex with a masculine, dominant man

Anyway, the point is here that the majority of women finds ways to get themselves off sexually, especially as they mature more. You'll just never find out about it so that they don't portray themselves as sexual deviants.

Permit me then to dedicate my life to ensuring that womankind has less and less need for self-gratification, artificial stimulation and fantasy ...and so as not to bite off more than I can chew (so to speak!) I shall limit myself to the top .01% of women, as classified by physical appearance.

I just can't help myself. I'm such a selfless, altruistic fellow

-Marty

 

[Estate]

Guys,
So not quite sure where I'm going with this follow up but basically I feel like it's just me lately.. motivation is seriously lacking.

In the last week I've made a few leads in meeting and getting some numbers but even the want to follow up is just lacking. Every conversation is the same as the last. You contact, they play uninterested.. I play along... they begin to chase.. We set up a date... and I'm so unimpressed with how boring the act is that I can't even be bothered with it.

I don't know what's up. I alluded to the same thing but I think the commenter that inspired Chases article on "business" women said it better than I could. These are typically my type and those I work and play with in the city. While I love how well put together and independent they are.. They have me worn out from their whole sex and the city persona. Even my female friends sometimes grate me with the Facebook statuses of all these guys chasing them, how many dates they have this week, how funny they dumped a guy again this week. One of them has even started a blog lately to essentially make fun of every guy she's ever dated (while of course she is a princess in all the stories).

By the time I actually have them wanting me.. I've lost interest. Their indifference initially and lack of genuineness as they try to live this lifestyle they've dreamt up is so lacking to me. They turn down the prospect of actually dating guys in favor of a good story to tell their girlfriends or their blogosphere.

It just has me worn out.

When a girl gives a short reply... I guess I should feel the rush of how I'm going to win her over. But instead, given she just displays such a lack of personality I reach for the delete button on her contact.

I think it's me really. I'm worn out. I don't feel like meeting woman after woman. I'd rather meet one good one but the process to even do that means... what else... play MORE women at their own game.

Ugh I dunno.. maybe it's the back to work blues today after the holiday weekend.

 

[Franco]

Estate,

You should also try putting yourself in positions for instant dates. And what I mean by that is, meet women during the day when you have a few hours of nothing important to do in front of you. That way, once you meet them, you can try to get them to move with you for a date right then and there so that you aren't feeling so drained by the text chasing game. You can even close some girls the day you meet them if you do it properly, and this will feel much more fulfilling then having to deal with all of the texting.

If this is something you've already considered, you should also consider approaching more women and getting more phone numbers than you already are. If you're working with 5-10 text conversations a week, you tend to notice less when a girl is acting coy because you just forget to respond to one girl when you're responding to two or three other ones. Then she can suddenly hit you up later and is much more eager to see if you will go out with her (because of your aloofness). So getting more phone numbers actually reduces the stress because you aren't so focused on the outcome of only one or two text conversations.

- Franco

 

[Marty]

Hey Estate,

This is a cool thread.

Quite a coincidence occurred! I was going to make a suggestion... when I read what you wrote about the follow-up issues you've encountered, and lack of willingness to date:

I've made a few leads in meeting and getting some numbers but even the want to follow up is just lacking ... They turn down the prospect of actually dating guys in favor of a good story to tell their girlfriends or their blogosphere.

—I was going to suggest (it applies to me too) leaving off the professional women for a bit, and angling for the ones who have more leisure time. I don't particularly like people who say they're busy all the time anyway... sometimes it's true because they offer a lot of value to others in their lives, but more often it's a cover for being show-off, pushy, or annoying.

I couldn't believe it when a girl I'd already kissed sent me a text message to say she couldn't meet me again because she had to "do laundry and go to Goodwill". (Seriously? That's more urgent than kissing a man again you liked the first time?)

Another one is always supposedly on business trips even on the weekend (Memorial Day, anyone?) and sends me crying-on-your-shoulder text messages about how she can't wait to take a break. Please. I told her she could talk to me anytime on the phone to take her mind off of it and she ignored me. (That's probably because it's untrue and she's sitting pretty in town.)

A third is evidently some super-important government economist which is presumably why she can't even pick up the fucking phone when I call to say I liked dating with her. (At noon on a Friday, when I know she's normally walking her dog.) Are you kidding me?

So, I didn't get around (ha!) to writing the above yesterday, but that was BEFORE I actually read the following very interesting passage in Robert Greene's book The Art of Seduction:

People with a lot of time on their hands are extremely susceptible to seduction. They have mental space for you to fill. ... On the other hand, you should generally avoid people who are preoccupied with business or work—seduction demands attention, and busy people have too little space in their minds for you to occupy.

It makes perfect intuitive sense, I suppose. Go for the girls who value their leisure time, and not the nose-to-the-grindstone types (I expect they're not much fun anyway). I mean, Franco said it right:

You should also try putting yourself in positions for instant dates. And what I mean by that is, meet women during the day when you have a few hours of nothing important to do in front of you.

—if she'd rather (or "has to", as she'll no doubt put it) spend the afternoon sitting in her office, you've screened her out right away.

Another issue that comes to mind from this thread harks to Franco's point about increasing the total number of females in your pool:

If this is something you've already considered, you should also consider approaching more women and getting more phone numbers than you already are.

—this has always been my preferred route, but in spite of a year of putting in double-digit hours per week, I've never managed to achieve it. I'd love to have, say, two dates per week. As it is, in the beginning I had only about one per month from cold approach, and then when I started seeing regular success it increased to an average of roughly two per month, but I still feel it's low.

One of the problems I've faced is that this requires putting myself in an environment where girls will readily open for me when I approach them. I don't know what that environment looks like, but I certainly know I haven't found it where I'm currently located. If the majority of women, upon seeing me approach, before I've even opened my mouth, either:

• suddenly switch focus to something else that has "suddenly" become a lot more "interesting";
• ignore me outright;
• actually move out of my way to avoid me;
• this is the one which drives me nuts—proactively smile and say "hello", then the instant I return the greeting, switch to man-eating bitch-face, leaving me walking past in bafflement

... then it means it's gonna cost me several hours of work to get each phone number, and multiple days' effort to land a date.

I know you and I are going to disagree somewhat on this point, Estate, judging by how you've counseled others here previously, but it seems to me that while the United States is an excellent crucible for honing your dating skills against very tough odds, it's not necessarily an excellent environment for getting actual results. The abundance of acceptable male suitors for each thin, young female is such that it makes a lot of sense to spend for a man to a few years polishing himself, in his quest to meet the (attractive) American girls' resulting exorbitant expectations, and then take that finely-whetted skill set back to his "home market", being wherever he spent the majority of his career formerly: in your case Ireland perhaps, or wherever you earned your stripes; in my case Eastern Europe.

Although I had no formal schooling in game at that point, I certainly never witnessed, for example, the "hello"/bitch-face switcheroo described above, and I'd have remembered something like that: it seems to be a uniquely US phenomenon. Anyway, that's a matter of opinion but I think that path would make sense for me. There is certainly an advantage for training purposes to the American environment that the girls are more socially liberal and willing to experiment and not necessarily pushing for "serious" relationships all the time; quite the contrary, it's hard to get them on a second date!

I hope that you get the opportunity to experiment with some more leisurely, less business-oriented women, Estate, and encounter some to your liking so you don't have to meet one after the other and can have some "repeat performances"

Good luck!

-Marty

 

[Chase]

This is interesting-

People with a lot of time on their hands are extremely susceptible to seduction. They have mental space for you to fill. ... On the other hand, you should generally avoid people who are preoccupied with business or work—seduction demands attention, and busy people have too little space in their minds for you to occupy.

Personally, I MUCH prefer busy women myself - they're in a "go-go-go" mindset already and are used to fitting things into their schedules when they have openings and doing them; tend to be very decisive; and have little problem with moving fast. I find that less busy women really tend to draw things out, try to buy time to deliberate, and are much more likely to flake because they're not in the habit of getting up and going out as much so it feels like more work to them to come meet you, and because time is so wide open for them they don't think much of it and don't consider themselves to be inconveniencing you either if they need to rearrange their schedules because they feel like staying in bed watching television a little longer.

That may just be down to different seduction styles though; Robert sounds like he operates more on a slowly unfolding game, where he gets to know a girl over time and gradually works his way into her psyche and heart - this is true "seduction", of taking someone who isn't all that interested and making her so. What I usually recommend is more about snap decisions based on good fundamentals - get as much handled as you can get handled beforehand, then just screen out the fish who aren't biting very quickly so you can find the girls who make those snap "yes" decisions around you, and set it all up and make it happen. More screening, less seduction, I suppose you'd say.

Chase

 

[NarrowJ]

That may just be down to different seduction styles though; Robert sounds like he operates more on a slowly unfolding game, where he gets to know a girl over time and gradually works his way into her psyche and heart - this is true "seduction", of taking someone who isn't all that interested and making her so.

I'm reading this same book right now, and while admittedly I am only about halfway through it at the moment- the author (Robert Greene) seems to write the book with the mindset of the end goal of seduction being "love", and not "sex".

J.J.

 

[Marty]

I'm reading this same book right now, and while admittedly I am only about halfway through it at the moment- the author (Robert Greene) seems to write the book with the mindset of the end goal of seduction being "love", and not "sex".

Mm... I suppose that's not necessarily a bad thing, since a girl who is truly in love with you will probably be willing to sleep with you too, so long as you follow a clean process to move things forward; but I guess your point is that it's adding an extra, unnecessary step. Plus Chase makes an very solid point that it's much more efficient to simply screen out uninterested women instead of plotting to win them over stepwise.

Robert sounds like he operates more on a slowly unfolding game, where he gets to know a girl over time and gradually works his way into her psyche and heart - this is true "seduction", of taking someone who isn't all that interested and making her so. What I usually recommend is more about snap decisions based on good fundamentals - get as much handled as you can get handled beforehand, then just screen out the fish who aren't biting very quickly so you can find the girls who make those snap "yes" decisions around you, and set it all up and make it happen. More screening, less seduction, I suppose you'd say.

Yes. That is an excellent point.

Personally, I MUCH prefer busy women myself - they're in a "go-go-go" mindset already and are used to fitting things into their schedules when they have openings and doing them; tend to be very decisive; and have little problem with moving fast.

I understand your point of view. However, I just find it a little sad, even depressing sometimes, that people choose to spend their hours doing one thing when they could be doing something a lot more exciting. A little under a year ago, a very pretty girl told me that she couldn't have a cup of tea or glass of wine with me because she was "just swamped with projects and events" and that she had a second job that took up most of her free time. That's kind of miserable when you think about it, that an attractive person would choose to overload herself with commitments rather than spending time with the opposite sex. I can't think about it too much because it makes me sad for humanity.

 

[Franco]

Marty,

A little under a year ago, a very pretty girl told me that she couldn't have a cup of tea or glass of wine with me because she was "just swamped with projects and events" and that she had a second job that took up most of her free time. That's kind of miserable when you think about it, that an attractive person would choose to overload herself with commitments rather than spending time with the opposite sex. I can't think about it too much because it makes me sad for humanity.

While there are women out there who are genuinely swamped with so much work in their lives that they don't have time for men (at the moment), you have to remember that the primary cause of this USUALLY has to do with an automated response on her part based on previous experiences.

What I mean by this is, 99% of the guys who have probably asked her on a "date" have been of the "nice guy" type. She goes out on a date, they (maybe) have a few laughs, the guy says he had a good time and that they should do it again sometime, the girl nods and smiles, and then nothing ever happens. This type of thing happens SO often for many women that they just get tired of "going on dates" with men. Past experiences have told them that no excitement, feelings, or emotions come from it and that almost all men never make a move on or after a date, so it's just a waste of time in her busy schedule.

You're thinking about it from an angle of, "if she'd only give me this much time, she would be SO excited because I'm such an amazing guy." While on the other hand, she's thinking about it like, "another date... do I really want to do this? I need to finish tasks X, Y, and Z. I think that's more important right now."

There's just no energy behind her decision because she's assuming it's going to be another "boring" date. This is the reason we furiously push being sexual and moving fast. She needs to feel the sexual energy and the desire to have you because that's ultimately what changes her from "...do I really want this?" to "wow, that guy was so aggressive, but very sexy! I can't even focus on X,Y,Z right now because I keep thinking about how hot it would be to have him deep inside me..."

There's a difference in the way you send women home after meeting them, and you want to separate yourself from the 99% that make her wonder whether or not a date is worth her time.

- Franco

 

[Marty]

Thanks Franco.

As you know, I'm having fun with the fieldwork side of this journey. Try as I might to grasp it, however, the theoretical part continually eludes me. With regard to this, for example:

She needs to feel the sexual energy and the desire to have you because that's ultimately what changes her from "...do I really want this?" to "wow, that guy was so aggressive, but very sexy! I can't even focus on X,Y,Z right now because I keep thinking about how hot it would be to have him deep inside me..."

There's a really significant amount of material on the main side about building an emotional connection and being relatable. While I may have misunderstood, the implication seems to be that those recommendations are not directed purely at forming long-term relationships, but are to be put into practice prior to any intimacy with a girl.

Now it would seem to me that an evening coffee/wine-type date, far from being a "waste of time", would be an ideal environment to form that kind of passionate bond. If on the other hand she's purely focused on achieving physical gratification, as you described in the quote above, the emotional connection would seem totally superfluous... so then why is so much material devoted to its importance?

This apparent contradiction tears at my sense of rationality. Can you help me to understand this?

-Marty

 

[Estate]

Marty, I'm not sure if I am saying the same thing as Franco here or not but I can give you my take.

Even if all a woman wants is to just get physical. I find that quite a lot will not allow themselves do that with just anyone. They justify it to themselves by feeling some emotional connection.
They don't all think like men, men don't necessarily need an emotion involved. Even if she knows it's a fling, the feeling that it wasn't a fling with "just anyone", she'll want to feel like she had reason to have a fling with this one guy, even if a fling, is all it is.

To be honest, if I look back, I've probably bedded more girls on a first date or an early meeting than just a hookup from a club. The club girl is just direct about it, a few drinks and to hell with the emotional connection. But others women will just want to "feel" like it wasn't just a slutty hookup. At least that's been my experience. Sometimes she'll make the connection building easy for you, she just wants to get laid. But it's nothing more. She knows it, you know it, just go with it.

At least that's been my experience, if we are just talking about hooking up.

But I think you're skipping ahead. I mean, I've often cancelled a meetup with a girl for work stuff, or to meet other friends or because I just felt like staying in. It sort of comes when you have more options, like a good woman might have. You need some real differentiation on meeting her, otherwise you'll never even get to that tea date to build the connection, you need to leave her in the first place thinking "Yeah, he's different to the rest of them today!"
For a man or woman... if your job and workout routine and meeting friends is your life, your norm... why would you put it all aside to spend the evening with someone you hardly know? I only really want to do it if I feel a little excited about it... but often nowadays, instead of being excited I feel like "Ugh, she's really not offering anything I haven't seen already, I'd rather play football".

I get that with girls a lot. I get numbers or whatever but the girls totally just lose me over text or calls, or just being boring or un-interesting. Like I alluded to in my original post of the thread. If she's doesn't appear to be bringing much to the table, why do I want to waste my time and money going on a date with her? I don't really... and I think a lot of women feel this way upon meeting men. It no longer feels like this great opportunity to possibly build the worlds greatest relationship... it feels more of a 80/20 chance that it will be another mediocre date where she doesn't dress to impress, she doesn't even offer to pay for 1 drink, she doesn't have anything interesting to say about herself and I leave feeling like I wish I had spent the evening catching up on netflix and using the money to order a pizza and have change for a beer afterwards.

Have a look at the article I posted yesterday about the developers in Seattle... this is pretty much what I am surrounded with every day. The odds and the numbers and ratios are all in their favour... but they screw it up by just being the same old thing, over and over, to these girls. Stand out!