First 90 Days How to convince GF/LTR (basically non-casual/ non-FB) to continue practicing Pick-Up

[empath]

How do I convince the girl I am seeing for 1.5 month to let me practice pick up. She is clear she wants a relationship from first day.

She has been in a situationship before and was not able to convert the guy. This guy triggered her depression in her and then kept using her/took advantage of this girl. Every time she used to get better he used to come back and mess her up and then used to chase other girls. I like her but she is not my soulmate or something.

How this other girl situation escalated

In the 1st week after we slept, she started pestering me for deleting the dating apps on my phone. I always used to change the conversation to anything fun.

Then one day during 2nd/3rd week she seriously confronted me about those apps. I said that I feel good from all the attention. There was more confrontation but she eventually said fine delete these app whenever you feel like it, I don't want to push you but I don't buy your reason.

Next she saw some messages on the phone but was chill about if for few days.

Now suddenly, she confronted me again, I said let's talk once when we meet. We can't meet for 5-6 days. But she installed that app herself, she said she can't promise loyalty if I will not give it to her. I told her ok good find someone better, I am sleeping. She after sometimes herself sends me screenshot of deleting that app. She said she just wanted me to feel how she was feeling for last few days.

What I have told her about myself
I told her a bit that I was not good with women/shy in school. So, I have decided to change it.

But I don't think she is aware about pick up or anything.

What I have tried so far
She is very clear that she wants a relationship. I always side-step this by saying I want to give you a good experience. Not every bond can be permanent.
I am not in a good state right now for a relationship.

She said ok let's screw the relationship but she wants me off that app.

I want to deal this problem once for all. I want to have my cake and eat it too. If this is not possible I will break up with her.

What I like about her and what I don't
Sex is good with her but I have good emotional connection with her. She sort of understands me is non-judgemental. Feels like a supportive friend too. Has a good giving nature. But her face is not exactly how I want. Also, her family background should have been better. I don't like her depression as well.

Also, I am in a State right now even if I found a perfect girl I would want to keep going on for pickup more and more. Even I don't know what is driving me but I want to put every ounce of my resources get the lays.

 

[gameboy]

Delete the app and do day game?

But seriously, you don't want to be hurting your girl. You should let her know that you can't be exclusive with her, and if she isn't ok with that let her go.

 

[Lantern]

How did the first couple of weeks with her look like? How often would you see her and what did you do? Just hang out and have sex, go on dates (if so, a walk in the park, or dinner, or weekends together?

It could be she's simply looking for exclusivity ASAP, but it could be you were very boyfriendy from the get go, and you gave her that impression. In any case, you shouldn't lead her on for sure.

Anyway, there's already some signs thing are geting toxic, it might be best to leg her go, but you need to figure out why this happend to avoid it in the future.

 

[Michael Chief]

If this is not possible I will break up with her.

Good.

Be a man and have the honest conversation with her about what you're about and what you're looking for. If you're not looking for monogamy, make that clear. If she strictly wants monogamy and can't compromise on that, make it clear that you're not the right partner for her.

There are beautiful women out there who are down with open relationships and other forms of ENM.
If this girl isn't one of them, you already know what to do.

 

[Loverboy]

Without being a veteran on the topic--this mini-series gave me a good mental framework on how to navigate the grey area between women's spontaneous desire towards commitment and men's spontaneous desire towards diversity. More experienced seducers (@Michael Chief ) feel free to comment.

How to Build a Harem, Pt 1: Queen Theory

In Part 1 of the harem series, we talk about Queen Theory: how women position themselves as long-term partners and jockey for roles and status. Having created a constantly evolving harem for the past three years running multi-dating relationships, as well as having dated some of these women for...

www.girlschase.com

How to Build a Harem, Pt 2: Jealousy and Discretion

When you have more than one girlfriend, a few rules are key: she may suspect you see other women, but you must never give her PROOF. Welcome back to the Harem Series! In Part 1, I shared the vital importance of Queen Theory, and why every woman you’re dating emotionally must feel like your #1...

www.girlschase.com

How to Build a Harem, Pt 3: Compartments and Precedent

For your harem to last, you must compartmentalize your girls and life in such a way as to respect Queen Theory… or drama will send it all crashing down. Contents 1. Will I Like Her Post NRE? 2. How Compartments Work Separating Emotional Life Separating Social and Public Life Always Treat Her...

www.girlschase.com

How to Build a Harem, Pt.4: Tiers of Girlfriends and a Man’s Capacity

When your multiple-relationship lifestyle fills beyond capacity, one or more aspects will suffer. This advice will help you minimize heartbreak and stay on track. Welcome back to the How to Build a Harem series, aimed at making you proficient in the art of dating several women long term...

www.girlschase.com

How to Build a Harem, Pt 5: Phases of Non-Monogamous Relationships

Every relationship has its phases, but non-monogamous setups are often more challenging. Handle each phase well to help things go smoothly and make it last. Welcome back to the Harem series. In this article, I will continue discussing how to date and manage relationships with many women in an...

www.girlschase.com

How to Build a Harem, Pt 6: The Talk

For each non-monogamous relationship you intend to build, you’ll inevitably have The Talk. If you manage it well and keep a solid frame, odds are she’ll hop on board. The most defining moment in your relationships – whether in this system, monogamy, or some other kind – will always be “The...

www.girlschase.com

How to Build a Harem, Pt 7: The Ethics of Non-Transparency

In a non-monogamous relationship, is it ethical to keep your partners in the dark about each other? Let’s explore the reasons why it is – for you and for them. Girls Chase reader Damien asked me a question about a relationship he had with a woman that lasted two years in a non-monogamous setup...

www.girlschase.com

How to Build a Harem, Pt 8: Non-Monogamy and Revolving Doors

Non-monogamy can make a woman feel trapped, but if she’s free to sleep with other men and exit the relationship with your blessing, you’re more likely to keep her around. Contents 1. Make It Clear It’s Open for Her, Too 2. Should You Worry About Other Men? 3. Most Women Want No More Than One Guy...

www.girlschase.com

How to Build a Harem, Pt 9: What Happens When Your MLTRs Meet?

It’s vital that you don’t let your MLTRs meet each other! To illustrate, here’s what happened when I and 3 of my lovers showed up to the same Tantric seminar. Welcome back to the Harem series! This year I’ve got more exciting insights and strategies to share about how you can date multiple women...

www.girlschase.com

How to Build a Harem, Pt 10: When MLTRs Ask About Your Other Women

It’s generally a bad idea to let MLTRs meet or know details about your other women. But what do you do when they persist in questioning you about them? Welcome back to the Harem series! If you’d like to recap, here’s a full list of articles in the Harem Series so far (in order): Queen Theory...

www.girlschase.com

As a rule of thumb: women are primed to desire a man's commitment. It doesn't mean that they will never have any action with an uncommitted man; it means that they have a preference towards more commitment from a man. Essentially, a woman's ultimate goal is to own the majority of her man's mental real estate. Why: because they need a provider if they want to raise their offspring in optimal conditions. They want their man's (husband's) eyes locked on her, and her only.

From that principle, there are 2 consequences:
1. Women hate female competition. Because a man's attention is a zero-sum game: every second of his attention that he gives to another woman is a second of his attention that she is not getting. In the game of men, it's every woman for herself.
2. Women are very sensitive to an increase/decrease of commitment. Increase of commitment makes them feel happy, things are progressing in the right direction ; decrease of commitment makes them feel like losing ground on you and that you are on your way to abandon them.

Point 2 is crucial. Best strategy is to start things with a girl on the lowest precedent possible. Everything you give her upfront (endless texting, paying for expensive restaurants, ...), she will expect you to continue at that level or higher. Starting at a romantic level then downgrading her to FWB is an insult to her.

Dating and Relationship Precedent: Why It’s So Very Important

Poorly-set precedent: it's the scourge of relationships across the face of mankind. Every day, the whole of the male sex collectively writhes in agony at its own terribly-set precedent coming back to haunt it - and bit it right in the ass.

www.girlschase.com

Regarding how to communicate that you want to continue gaming outside of her. If you say this verbally to her, it's like stabbing a knife in her heart. It means she's not good enough to have your full attention.
The harem mini series hints towards this strategy: verbally you should communicate to her that she is unique to you and that you love spending time with her; non-verbally, your actions should paint the picture that maybe she isn't the only one but without her having any tangible proof. This means: spend amazing quality time with her in person, but outside of the moments where you meet together you provide limited texting follow up. This also means having a "double life" where you keep her separated from your broader life: friends, family, hobby... she doesn't know much about your life outside of the moments you have together. The more intel she has about you, the more her mind will make deductions and she will read you like a book and make drama if that's what it takes to gain more of your mental real estate.

I don't like this double-communication but I'm starting to believe that if you are in the game of courting multiple women, you have to play it. Men and women's desires for each other aren't 100% compatible and if you want to successfully navigate the conflict of interest of diversity vs commitment, you have to play smart. I've tried being candid in the past and trying to get women's approval for me to keep exploring, it hasn't worked for me.

To be in line with Michael Chief:

Be a man and have the honest conversation with her about what you're about and what you're looking for. If you're not looking for monogamy, make that clear. If she strictly wants monogamy and can't compromise on that, make it clear that you're not the right partner for her.

This isn't about lying or deceiving her. The article "Part 6: The Talk" gives a framework on how (& when) to get real about what she can and cannot expect from you. And if that's incompatible with her desires, you must let her free to leave.

There are beautiful women out there who are down with open relationships and other forms of ENM.

Just a side comment on open relationships. In my experience, very few people are willing to have a "fully open relationship" where everything is out in the open and everybody accepts what everybody else desires. Jealousy is encoded deep in our DNA. Some time ago I flirted with a girl from an sexually open community who was "being in a casual situationship with a guy where both were open to have adventures on the side". The girl was into me, I made the mistake of flirting a bit too obviously with her in the open; next thing I know, her and her guy decided that it was better for both of them to remain exclusive for a while.
Lesson learned: most people don't "truly" want an open relationship, and if you decide to navigate that landscape you must remain mentally sharp.

 

[Michael Chief]

Jealousy is encoded deep in our DNA.

So is murderous rage, but we have deemed it to be "civilized" to control and manage our anger to the point that we don't kill people who piss us off. And just as society teaches us to control anger, those of us who became more enlightened to ENM philosophies believe that we need to control and manage jealousy in just as healthy ways. I personally think it is uncivilized how our society's media romanticizes jealousy in movies and such, as it makes us more prone to its effects, making us think that it's more "natural" than the other negative emotions society brainwashed us to condemn.

The unhealthy way to control both anger and jealousy would be to just bottle it up inside until we reach some sort of boiling point. The healthy way to control both anger and jealousy would be to talk about our feelings, explore where the feelings our coming from, and to resolve any insecurities that those feelings are coming from together. It's like telling your friend that you're angry because he was being inconsiderate about something, and allowing him to empathize with you, instead of just punching him in the face.

Your anecdote is definitely something that happens to a lot of people, but there are plenty of people who have proven that emotions can be managed maturely as well.

Lesson learned for me: Most people have the capacity to be in alternative relationships as long as they're mature enough to navigate vulnerability and emotional exploration. And you can use seduction/persuasion skills to draw that out of women consistently.

 

[empath]

The thing I want is one sided monogamy. I want to hook up with other girls while keep her as a gf. I want this girl as main chick, but she clearly wants to be the only one, no side chicks allowed. So, I need to explain her I am picking up girls to build a skill and why I want to build this skill. The problem is she will respond that I am not going to leave or anything so, why you want to be on a dating app/pick up girls.

Now my problem is how do I explain this to her. I would prefer not to tell her about pick up and secret society. However, She won't take any dumb reason from me for being on dating app/picking up girls.

Also, I wanted her as a gf so I did a lot of bfish things after shagging her. I knew what I was doing. Also, she clearly wanted relationship.

 

[Licker]

I think what @gameboy suggested is the best course of action.

The real question is,
Why are you afraid of letting her go?

You must ask this question and arrive at an answer yourself.

There is no trick in the world that anybody can tell you that will trick this girl into a non monogamous relationship with you, if she doesn't want it.
Here is a zen parable to read if you have trouble deciding ( https://mettarefuge.wordpress.com/2009/12/01/now-and-zen-are-you-still-carrying-her/)

Tanzan and Ekido were once traveling together down a muddy road. A heavy rain was still falling.

Coming around a bend, they met a lovely girl in a silk kimono and sash, unable to cross the intersection.

“Come on, girl” said Tanzan at once. Lifting her in his arms, he carried her over the mud.

Ekido did not speak again until that night when they reached a lodging temple. Then he no longer could restrain himself. “We monks don’t go near females,” he told Tanzan, “especially not young and lovely ones. It is dangerous. Why did you do that?”

“I left the girl there,” said Tanzan. “Are you still carrying her?”

 

[Lantern]

Now my problem is how do I explain this to her.

Explain to her?

My dude, I'm under the impression that you think you're going to sit a woman down and change how she feels by delivering a well researched and logical argument like an academic explaning a paper on the mating habits of the blue-footed booby. If that's the case, you have a bit more to learn about how women function.

You can't logic your way into a woman's heart. Or pussy. She *feels* a certain way about you and the relationship, and no explanation will change anything.

This is why I asked you how did you behave with her from the begining, because this is what got her to feel a ceritan way, and the possibility of chaning that is now probably very slim, but certainly won't happen after you give her a three point substaniated agrument supported by references.

 

[empath]

Explain to her?

My dude, I'm under the impression that you think you're going to sit a woman down and change how she feels by delivering a well researched and logical argument like an academic explaning a paper on the mating habits of the blue-footed booby. If that's the case, you have a bit more to learn about how women function.

You can't logic your way into a woman's heart. Or pussy. She *feels* a certain way about you and the relationship, and no explanation will change anything.

This is why I asked you how did you behave with her from the begining, because this is what got her to feel a ceritan way, and the possibility of chaning that is now probably very slim, but certainly won't happen after you give her a three point substaniated agrument supported by references.

Explaining might be the wrong word. What I mean is I want to convince her to let me continue to pick up while she remains my main chick or doesn't bother me with picking up. I don't want give her some academic argument. But i want to convince her emotionally or however she gets it. I behave bfy with her coz I wanted her as my GF. I like romance more than anything. Don't want to leave her now coz she is a book worth reading till the end.

 

[JT Sunshine]

So it sounds like you want her as a girlfriend but you also want to be able to hook up with other women casually? Tell her that you're 100% not looking to make an emotional connection with anyone other than her, but that you need sexual freedom in your life and that's something you can't compromise on. She can take it or leave it - but you have to be prepared for her to leave it.

Based off her repeated attempts to get you to "delete the apps" I am going to guess she wants something monogamous. Even if she says she's okay with it now, I see it becoming an issue down the line. Just my two cents (I've been in one of these - and it was great until it wasn't)

 

[empath]

I tried doing this repeatedly. Couldn't explain her why I want to be a skilled seducer. She sees me as byronic person affected by childhood turma now. I don't think I will push this further with her. She already has BPD. Don't want her to become a depressed manic. Need to figure out to break up with her now.

 

[isildur1]

Without being a veteran on the topic--this mini-series gave me a good mental framework on how to navigate the grey area between women's spontaneous desire towards commitment and men's spontaneous desire towards diversity. More experienced seducers (@Michael Chief ) feel free to comment.

How to Build a Harem, Pt 1: Queen Theory

In Part 1 of the harem series, we talk about Queen Theory: how women position themselves as long-term partners and jockey for roles and status. Having created a constantly evolving harem for the past three years running multi-dating relationships, as well as having dated some of these women for...

www.girlschase.com

How to Build a Harem, Pt 2: Jealousy and Discretion

When you have more than one girlfriend, a few rules are key: she may suspect you see other women, but you must never give her PROOF. Welcome back to the Harem Series! In Part 1, I shared the vital importance of Queen Theory, and why every woman you’re dating emotionally must feel like your #1...

www.girlschase.com

How to Build a Harem, Pt 3: Compartments and Precedent

For your harem to last, you must compartmentalize your girls and life in such a way as to respect Queen Theory… or drama will send it all crashing down. Contents 1. Will I Like Her Post NRE? 2. How Compartments Work Separating Emotional Life Separating Social and Public Life Always Treat Her...

www.girlschase.com

How to Build a Harem, Pt.4: Tiers of Girlfriends and a Man’s Capacity

When your multiple-relationship lifestyle fills beyond capacity, one or more aspects will suffer. This advice will help you minimize heartbreak and stay on track. Welcome back to the How to Build a Harem series, aimed at making you proficient in the art of dating several women long term...

www.girlschase.com

How to Build a Harem, Pt 5: Phases of Non-Monogamous Relationships

Every relationship has its phases, but non-monogamous setups are often more challenging. Handle each phase well to help things go smoothly and make it last. Welcome back to the Harem series. In this article, I will continue discussing how to date and manage relationships with many women in an...

www.girlschase.com

How to Build a Harem, Pt 6: The Talk

For each non-monogamous relationship you intend to build, you’ll inevitably have The Talk. If you manage it well and keep a solid frame, odds are she’ll hop on board. The most defining moment in your relationships – whether in this system, monogamy, or some other kind – will always be “The...

www.girlschase.com

How to Build a Harem, Pt 7: The Ethics of Non-Transparency

In a non-monogamous relationship, is it ethical to keep your partners in the dark about each other? Let’s explore the reasons why it is – for you and for them. Girls Chase reader Damien asked me a question about a relationship he had with a woman that lasted two years in a non-monogamous setup...

www.girlschase.com

How to Build a Harem, Pt 8: Non-Monogamy and Revolving Doors

Non-monogamy can make a woman feel trapped, but if she’s free to sleep with other men and exit the relationship with your blessing, you’re more likely to keep her around. Contents 1. Make It Clear It’s Open for Her, Too 2. Should You Worry About Other Men? 3. Most Women Want No More Than One Guy...

www.girlschase.com

How to Build a Harem, Pt 9: What Happens When Your MLTRs Meet?

It’s vital that you don’t let your MLTRs meet each other! To illustrate, here’s what happened when I and 3 of my lovers showed up to the same Tantric seminar. Welcome back to the Harem series! This year I’ve got more exciting insights and strategies to share about how you can date multiple women...

www.girlschase.com

How to Build a Harem, Pt 10: When MLTRs Ask About Your Other Women

It’s generally a bad idea to let MLTRs meet or know details about your other women. But what do you do when they persist in questioning you about them? Welcome back to the Harem series! If you’d like to recap, here’s a full list of articles in the Harem Series so far (in order): Queen Theory...

www.girlschase.com

As a rule of thumb: women are primed to desire a man's commitment. It doesn't mean that they will never have any action with an uncommitted man; it means that they have a preference towards more commitment from a man. Essentially, a woman's ultimate goal is to own the majority of her man's mental real estate. Why: because they need a provider if they want to raise their offspring in optimal conditions. They want their man's (husband's) eyes locked on her, and her only.

From that principle, there are 2 consequences:
1. Women hate female competition. Because a man's attention is a zero-sum game: every second of his attention that he gives to another woman is a second of his attention that she is not getting. In the game of men, it's every woman for herself.
2. Women are very sensitive to an increase/decrease of commitment. Increase of commitment makes them feel happy, things are progressing in the right direction ; decrease of commitment makes them feel like losing ground on you and that you are on your way to abandon them.

Point 2 is crucial. Best strategy is to start things with a girl on the lowest precedent possible. Everything you give her upfront (endless texting, paying for expensive restaurants, ...), she will expect you to continue at that level or higher. Starting at a romantic level then downgrading her to FWB is an insult to her.

Dating and Relationship Precedent: Why It’s So Very Important

Poorly-set precedent: it's the scourge of relationships across the face of mankind. Every day, the whole of the male sex collectively writhes in agony at its own terribly-set precedent coming back to haunt it - and bit it right in the ass.

www.girlschase.com

Regarding how to communicate that you want to continue gaming outside of her. If you say this verbally to her, it's like stabbing a knife in her heart. It means she's not good enough to have your full attention.
The harem mini series hints towards this strategy: verbally you should communicate to her that she is unique to you and that you love spending time with her; non-verbally, your actions should paint the picture that maybe she isn't the only one but without her having any tangible proof. This means: spend amazing quality time with her in person, but outside of the moments where you meet together you provide limited texting follow up. This also means having a "double life" where you keep her separated from your broader life: friends, family, hobby... she doesn't know much about your life outside of the moments you have together. The more intel she has about you, the more her mind will make deductions and she will read you like a book and make drama if that's what it takes to gain more of your mental real estate.

I don't like this double-communication but I'm starting to believe that if you are in the game of courting multiple women, you have to play it. Men and women's desires for each other aren't 100% compatible and if you want to successfully navigate the conflict of interest of diversity vs commitment, you have to play smart. I've tried being candid in the past and trying to get women's approval for me to keep exploring, it hasn't worked for me.

To be in line with Michael Chief:

This isn't about lying or deceiving her. The article "Part 6: The Talk" gives a framework on how (& when) to get real about what she can and cannot expect from you. And if that's incompatible with her desires, you must let her free to leave.


Just a side comment on open relationships. In my experience, very few people are willing to have a "fully open relationship" where everything is out in the open and everybody accepts what everybody else desires. Jealousy is encoded deep in our DNA. Some time ago I flirted with a girl from an sexually open community who was "being in a casual situationship with a guy where both were open to have adventures on the side". The girl was into me, I made the mistake of flirting a bit too obviously with her in the open; next thing I know, her and her guy decided that it was better for both of them to remain exclusive for a while.
Lesson learned: most people don't "truly" want an open relationship, and if you decide to navigate that landscape you must remain mentally sharp.

this is a great post - i certainly lost a lot of girls due to a decreased level of commitment when i was trying to play hard to get . A lot of women don't enjoy the casual situationship from my experience most wanted LTRs

 

[ChrisVirtue]

I tried doing this repeatedly. Couldn't explain her why I want to be a skilled seducer. She sees me as byronic person affected by childhood turma now. I don't think I will push this further with her. She already has BPD. Don't want her to become a depressed manic. Need to figure out to break up with her now.

What ended up happening here ?

 

[empath]

What ended up happening here ?

Broke up.

Probably some bi-women or some super confident secure women or women with a cuck fantasy will allow it.

Any normal girl looking for relationship in her right mind won't agree for it.

And i don't think it is morally right as well.

Can try if you want to try your frame control skills but I would rather be single.

Saves from headache.

Or just do old fashion cheating.