Hey guys,
I read
@Chase article on the subject and I'm learning the whole process step by step from
@Teevster articles. Or
trying to learn
Here's how I go about it.
First I befriend the whole group, then I focus on her. Usually I don't have problems creating 'bubbles' with girls, I lean on some gambits to help me do that.
Then I start off building compliance ladders. Starting as innocent as holding a bit longer eye contact than needed, sometimes if the context is there I amp it up to kissing her on the cheek...
Then I try to get some excuses to move the girl (''wanna help me buying the drinks'', ''make me company when I go out for a smoke'', ''lets check if the rooftop is open tonight'', stuff like that) usually preceded with a gambit. All more or less good to this point.
I fail to keep my girls isolated most of the time though. They want to go back to their friends for example.
I realized lately how plausible deniability and proper frames play a huge part in this. She needs an excuse to not to trigger ASD or get her friends disapproval. You also want enough intrigue or a clear sexual frame before isolating, so she knows what's up.
I'm currently going out with the goal of ''ask her to move with you after delivering xy gambit/ talking to her for 15min''.
I'm intrigued to hear your process of isolating girls. Or pointing holes in my game as well.
Happy Friday to all,
Don Giovanni
P.S. This was a reply to @SunKing thread, but I later realized he was talking about a different topic. Therefore I opened a new thread, sorry for derailing man.
There are some variables here that make this a harder problem to solve
- You
- Your game
- The Group
- The Venue
- Her
Variable 1 - You - Do you look good? Have you been working out? Dressed well? Clothes Fit? Good breath? Smell Nice? - Most of the time you can't do anything about this in the moment. But all of us, self included, need to increase our external looks to make it easier for the girl to make the right decision.
This may or may not be the problem, but some chicks put up hard lines when it comes to letting themselves be attracted to random guys in view of their friends. She'll happily slob your knob if NO ONE KNOWS, but group approaches add in a social dynamic. (which raises the practical pua paradox of girls usually being easier to pull when they're in a group versus solo...I digress)
Variable 2 - Your Game - Sounds like your game is solid, or your understanding is solid. On a technical level, you might just need to run a few more investment/compliance loops to amp up the attraction. More attraction
can make it easier to isolate. But too much
instant attraction might trigger ASD.
Remember it's Pick Up Artistry, not Pick Up Science. More cooking rather than baking. The same sort of uncertainty is present with advertising, sales, persuasion, teaching, etc. Improving your process, tools, and understanding nets more success, but you'll never be able to pull any chick any time. (even though that's the ultimate though unreachable goal)
Using the typical excuses to isolate (smoke break, buy drinks, roof top/outside) should work to isolate.
So if they're not leaving the group to be with you in the first place, that's a problem with attraction, and possibly one of trust.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but what seems to be happening is that the value proposition of hanging out with you for more than a moment on the solo versus hanging out with her friends (who are just staring at their phones and gossiping) is the issue.
You can pull her off the group, but you can't make her stay long enough to work more of your magic.
She'll literally go help you with drinks for her and crew, but won't spend 5-20 minutes sipping a cocktail with you.
Something about the encounter is off.
- Either her giving you compliance, her investing, and all of that is her playing the game to have fun - but w/o the crew - she's bored - and she needs constant novelty to stay engaged.
- She's intimidated by you - She's not worthy of you, which means that you're trying to fuck and forget.
- She's scared of you - not trustworthy. Too good to be true. She's an avid listener to Serial Killer Podcasts
1) The scatter brained party girl - You need to have actual hard drugs, or be as exciting as drugs. I find that staying in set, rather than early isolation is much more useful for getting these chicks. But to be honest, if you're more of a livewire than she is, she's gonna chase you (and you'll be bored by her). Cause party girls chase the bright shiny ball.
2) The very low self esteem girl - If you improve her self esteem, she'll think she's above you. ASK ME HOW I KNOW!
IME, I'm more likely to cut a chick like this, rather than try to change her mood (and change her mind). Plenty of pretty girls, and lots of not so pretty ones, have these issues. And the juice is not worth the squeeze. Feminists (mis)use this term, emotional labor. That's what this is. These girls are the ones I consider to be high maintenance. Always needing some sort of a external boost to get her in a good mood.
IMO, one Emo Chick can be readily replaced with Another.
That said a cutting cold read can often wake her up and get her to be feisty.
At which point you point out that she's not introverted or whatever, but she's actually being selfish for not sharing herself with others while everyone shares with her. (read facebook/twitter/tiktok pop psychology and relationship advice so you can drop "truth bombs" on the unsuspecting. Doesn't ever need to be true, it just needs to fit the meta-narrative of society or her inner dialogue)
I avoid these chicks, but you might not know what she's like in the group context.
3) She doesn't trust you - All sorts of things can trigger this, but if you're compliance ladder ends with YOU kissing HER - that's a major faux pas imo. It should be HER kissing YOU. You are the prize, not her. I'm gonna assume the compliance ladder is not the actual problem.
My adapted model adapted from the typical linear model - attract - comfort - seduce. Rather than them being strict phases, early, middle, and end game have a mix of all 3, with attraction being heaviest at the beginning but trust and seduction still peppered in. And in the trust stage, attraction falls back but is still there, with light seduction. And during the end game, seduction is high, attraction is very low, but trust is heavy still.
IMO the key to the lack of isolation is trust, not attraction/value or seduction/heat. I gotta shout out YaReally for this, but mixing "trust boosters" helps a girl be okay with isolation. (Trust also majorly helps with getting out of the venue)
Can she trust you to be alone with her? (ASD is her not trusting herself to be with you)
Trust Boosters
- Trustworthy and attractive friends at the venue (so some social proof and some sexual pre-selection)
- Staff knows you
- Interactions with strangers and getting their respect
- Handling male competition
- Handling female haters within her social group
- Touch and go kino - rather than grab her hand and be clingy, touch for emphasis, touch to get her attention, but quickly pull it back.
- Eye contact
- Active listening
- proper social/facial reactions to things she says and does
- etc
So while you're running your group game, start mixing these into your attraction bits. Merge Forward - introduce them to new people/Merge Backwards - introduce them to old people - is real useful for this.
Variable 3 - The Group
There are always overt and covert dynamics in a girl's social group.
The girl of interest might be
- The Leader
- The Heart
- The Enforcer
- The Treasure
Keep in mind, there's a lot of undercover communication among the females in the set. You may or may not notice it. But that means that any given chick is getting instructions/approval on whether she can leave or not.
The leader of the group - the "alpha" means isolation from the group is a problem for the rest of the group. Sometimes making the cold read that she's the Beyonce of their Destiny's Child - can expose the dynamic - and since no one wants to be thought of as co-dependent, they'll let her leave with you.
The Heart - some groups have this, some done. But she's the emotional heart of the group. Consider her the weakest link, but she gets say in the group via her vulnerability. Passive control because she's being a bitch.
The Enforcer - she's the chick that interrogates and enforces the rules. She might look like the alpha, but often times her only job is to be the pitbull. She might be hot though. This might also be something more common in the urban/black/hip hop clubs that I have gone to. Handling her is really about getting the last word that leaves her mouth agape. She can take care of herself, and doesn't need group approval.
The Treasure - Usually this is the hottest girl in the group, and she's the one that gets approached the most. Even with 4 hotties, one of them is hotter than the rest. The chicks she rolls with are usually a problem, because she's passive, but like the leader, she's thoughtful.
There are other archetypes, and girls will change roles or have a mix. But the key for the PUA is to understand how the girl's own personality, her own desires, conflict with the group's roles and personalities.
The leader and enforcer can be pulled off the group, because they are active.
You make it easier with merge set.
You make it easier with telling them you're gonna borrower their friend for a minute (and stay in view).
I'll often say to them, "Why you wanna hear my game and block your girl's blessings?" - Giving them a preview of something hilarious makes it easy.
The heart and the treasure have to choose you, because they are passive.
Which usually means staying in set for a fair amount of time, and letting the chick sidle up to you, and make her choice known.
Variable 4 - The Venue
Some venues are easy to pull chicks off of you than others. But isolation (getting some privacy is how I phrase it), isn't always good.
Raves/Megaclubs - easy to pull, but she will be afraid of literally not finding her friends.
Speakeasies/Small Bars/Lounges - you'll stay in view.
Interventionist Staff - Concerned bartenders, waitresses, and bouncers will keep an eye on you and the females if you don't know what your'e doing.
Variable 5 - Her
Assuming the chick is feeling you, You just don't know what's going on with the chick other than nonverbal signs of attraction
I can run textbook game, pull the chick off her gaggle, start my rap, and she wants to stay, doesn't need to go back to her group (her girls might push her on me), but something in her isn't on point.
Out of a relationship. Hiding deep insecurity. Ovulating. On her period. On drugs. Tipsy. Pissed at her boyfriend. Afraid of falling in love.
If I have enough time, I try to "crack her open" and get to that ushy gushy emotional core, maybe something can pop off.
If you're in the bar/club scene, you'll probably see that chick again, reinitiate and then hook up. On the debrief, she'll tell what was wrong before, but most of the time, you'll never know.
That's my 2 cents anyway.
WIA
