Long-Term How to not (too) be reactive in an LTR?

[Lover]

I am getting more frustrated with some of my gf's behavior that is becoming more frequent, and it shows. We are not sure how to handle it

About us
My girlfriend and I have been together a year and two months. We were vibing from day one and the sex was (is) hot. Due to recent health issues, we have both had hard times being intimate with the other. But it's still hot as long as we take care of ourselves, do positions that are not hurting us, and work out too.

She's moody and becomes "hangry". She's also hot-tempered and doesn't always like the feedback or suggestions I'm giving in that moment, but she comes around when she thinks more about it.

I'm a chill guy. I like to think things through for a little time before I answer, regardless of how I feel about it.

Like with any other person than my gf, I don't respond well to people telling me stuff while yelling or shouting. But in a calm and thoughtful way, I can listen to feedback or just someone complaining. And if there are sad or angry emotions in my gf I accept she can share this with me. This is how it is often.

The issue
However, sometimes her concerns get out in a confusing way with too much temper or intense emotions in it. I always try to figure out what exactly it is her main concern is. She knows I'm no mind-reader, and she isn't trying to contain any information on purpose. Sometimes it's about herself, sometimes about me, and sometimes about something else. So no consistent pattern in the topic

Attempts to solve things
Any attempts at cheering her up or coming up with solutions don't have any effect though. Even hugging her or just listening have no effect. She's not in a state to receive any affection or any advice.

But she's telling me about it regardless, and then I can't determine what her intentions are, or what she expects from me. And unfortunately, she can't tell me herself because she can't keep it bottled up for too long in these particular cases. And then she hasn't thought about what she wants in that moment. And when we talk about it in calmer times, she tells me basically that this is just the way she is in these instances, and doesn't know how to handle it in a more productive way

Consequences
It has gotten to a point where I am getting frustrated about it myself because it is happening more - weekly. And sometimes I slip and tell her annoyingly and in frustration - because I will get drained if all I do is listen. But slipping up and telling her hasn't exactly helped my energy levels either...

And then as the day passes, I have spent too much energy on her and have less energy to spend with her later when things are good.

Right now, it is as if she needs to "take" some of my energy in these instances and drag me down with her, instead of letting me pull her up.

My ideas
The only idea I can come up with is for her to talk more with her friends about these pressing concerns she shares out of the blue. She has been talking to and seeing her friends less because we share more time together. She has also told me this herself

But besides that, I have no idea if I have to just accept this side of her, or if there is any way we can both come out on the other side with more energy. We have tried to talk about solutions, but we are not sure how to move on in a productive manner.

And if there is no way to solve this, then I wonder what I should do to not spend too much energy on these blow-ups...

Thank you for reading... let me know if I'm just getting drained from a hot-tempered girl being hot-tempered, or if there is anything I haven't thought of that may work out

 

[topcat]

Sounds like an "emotional vampire". Basically she sucks up others energy to make her feel better about herself.
Why haven't you tried removing your attention?

"Listen I love you but i hang around you because your energy is pleasant and i enjoy being around you. Lately it hasn't been for {..list your reasons..}. Until you work on getting this part of yourself sorted, and I can help you sort through it if you'll allow me, i can't be around you.."

Then ghost and go do something productive.

When she calms down and is positive put her on probation, watch her like a hawk and punish/reward negative/positive behaviours accordingly.

Your trump card is ability to walk away, and in the less extreme give or relinquish attention.

I'd have my foot out the door already, personally.

 

[Will_V]

Things get a bit tough around the 1.5 to 2 year mark.

First of all, are you living together? This can make it pretty difficult to compartmentalize problems and give proper 'breathing room' and time for lone self-reflection. This is an order of magnitude more so if you both work from home.

Secondly, do you spend all your free time together? In my experience a little bit of longing goes a long way toward putting problems in perspective. I remember when one of my girlfriends moved out (we were half broken up at the time) whenever I went to see her she had the sweetest and most enthusiastic attitude and the time we spent together was wonderful, she'd even put on music and dance for me (oh brazilian girls ..)

Keeping a bit of distance and time apart is one way to keep a relationship feeling energetic, but what I've found is that when a girl is regularly acting up there's something fundamental she's not happy about. Things like:

- She wants to move forward in the relationship but you don't or aren't doing so
- She expected you to be at a different point in your life by now but you are languishing
- She's not being fulfilled in some way, for example she doesn't enjoy the activities you do together or wants to do something else
- Etc

At the end of the day you're going to have to reflect on things and try to understand the bigger picture so you are one step ahead and can lead her rather than reacting to her outbursts.
...

In the moment of an argument, if she's not behaving well, you really have to put a stop to that. This is how good relationships go bad - when emotion is high and all the good habits, discipline, and standards go out the window, leaving the guy after a few years worn out, helpless, and following some cantankerous woman around while wondering where the sweet girl that he met went.

It's absolutely necessary to be able to clearly pinpoint and describe the things you don't like, and be prepared to remind her every time she does it that XYZ is what you cannot put up with, this is not the first time she's done XYZ, and if she cannot fix XYZ she's putting the relationship at risk. It's only by calm and firm repetition with a precise description, without emotional outbursts on your part, that you can hold a mirror up to someone long enough for their conscious mind to realize how ugly their ego is being.

Secondly, you can't hang around giving attention when she behaves badly. Once you've said your piece once or twice, if her attitude is not better, you have to just tell her you're not going to be able to talk with her when she's like that, and leave. This is something I learned from Girls Chase, and it's very very useful, because when you don't do it, when you don't leave, you inevitably end up feeling helpless and frustrated and reactive thinking 'dammit how can I get through to her?'. You will find when you set your frame and walk away that you don't end up feeling so drained after an argument. Because yelling and arguments are a woman's domain - they are releases of egoistic emotional energy with not a whole lot of logic. She just wants to let it all out, and if you stand there and absorb it not only does it wear you out but it becomes entrenched in her mind that you can be that thing that she focuses her frustration on when it all gets too much.

To break someone out of an egoistic tirade, you have to put them in a situation consistently where if they continue they feel like they are the only ones who will suffer. This is the only thing that pops the psychological bubble. Because people with a victim mentality (as women naturally are) are happy to suffer with someone, but not at all happy to suffer alone.

I walked away numerous times from arguments, and even threw out my live-in girlfriend once, it's the only way you can have a situation where no matter how much they want to just let it rip, they will not do it. And over time it becomes trained so well that as soon as they feel bad, they suddenly feel better.

But in return you have to be a very good leader, who is ready to understand the situation and help her clarify the things she doesn't like or that are bothering her - but only when she's in a good state of mind.

 

[Chase]

@Lover,

Look into ADD/ADHD meltdowns. Sounds like it might match your girl:

How to Deal with ADHD Meltdowns in Adults | HealthyPlace

ADHD meltdowns in adults are frightening. Discover why they happen, plus how to manage and prevent adult ADHD meltdowns on HealthyPlace.

www.healthyplace.com

Basically what happens is people with ADD get overwhelmed and snap, and the emotions come pouring out. Then they feel bad about it later.

Best thing you can do is tell her to go take a walk and calm down or go sit in a room by herself and collect her thoughts. ADD folks don't calm down by talking things out. They calm down by going to a quiet place or doing something physical (walk, exercise, etc.) to de-stress.

If it's happening more she's probably feeling more overwhelmed in general for whatever reason. When she's calm, ask her what the main things that are making her feel the most overwhelmed right now are, and troubleshoot some ways with her she can use to reduce her overwhelm. Maybe she needs to cut some things out of her schedule, snip off a friend or a preoccupation that's putting a lot of pressure on her, have less contact with a family member who's pressuring her, etc.

You can't respond to tantrums rationally. Just imagine her like a really big toddler throwing a fit. People aren't saying rational things when they're tantrumming. They just rant and rave and try to push the buttons of whoever they're tantrumming at and act out. It's totally useless trying to solve problems with someone who is tantrumming, because you will go through this whole thing of trying to nail down what the problem is, and figure out some big solution, then when she finally calms down she will tell you, "Actually it wasn't really about that at all, lol, it was about XYZ other minor thing that was just bugging me too much. Hehe." Then you will just be like "WTF did I just expend all that mental energy for then, woman, Goddamnit!"

So really the only thing to do is when she's doing it, just mentally be like, "She's tantrumming again, don't listen to anything she says, tell her to go to another room or take a walk and calm herself down."

If you want to defuse it faster, take the psychologist approach and just have her explain the problem. "Okay, tell me exactly what it is. What triggered this. What is frustrating you. What caused that. Yes that does sound frustrating. Okay." Don't try to solve it, because trying to give her solutions just gives her more stuff to think about and adds to the overwhelm. Don't accept her hot-tempered solutions either because they're tantrum solutions which usually are not thought out. Just tell her "We can talk about solutions when you've calmed down. We're not going to talk about that now."

But again, best way is for her to just go get some space, ideally with something a bit physical, and let the overwhelm pass off her.

There are a lot of benefits to ADD:

What Are Benefits of Having ADHD?

Living with ADHD doesn’t have to be a setback. At work or in relationships, extra creativity and energy are assets. Read about ADHD strengths.

www.verywellhealth.com

It's more of a personality type than a disorder, really.

But the meltdowns and tantrums are aggravating. It's not something they can ever stop doing, unless you could somehow confine them to some kind of peaceful utopian mountain monastery where they never get overwhelmed ever. Even then they would probably find something to get stressed out about anyway and yell at the monks, lol.

The frequency tells you how much pressure she's under though. If it's happening a lot, she's under too much pressure and needs to lighten her load one way or another. You can help her figure that out when she's calm.

(if it turns out she is undiagnosed ADD, don't have her take the medication. All it does is depress symptoms temporarily, until the brain adapts, and then she ends up dependent on the medication to maintain the same level as the old normal her was at, and going off it leads to worsened behavior / withdrawal. There are several studies on this that take all the research on ADD medicine to task... the studies all look at preteens and teens and don't control for the normal improvement in ADD symptoms preteens and teens normally have as they age, so end up concluding the medicine is responsible for what is actually normal developmental improvement they end up having with or without medication)

Chase

 

[Lover]

Hey guys! Thanks a lot for your answers. I will apply your suggestions. Basically, if she throws a tantrum (about a random topic)

• let her "suffer" alone and remove my attention in the particular instances. (if she begins to throw a tantrum about me, then it's a different story, and I will tell her to behave and tell me in a calm manner)
• Suggest she takes a walk. She did this once on her own because she could feel she was getting into an irrational fight with me.
• Walk away myself if things are too heated
• Try and defuse if it makes sense. I have tried this from time to time with little effect. "You trying to calm me down is not solving anything", is her general answer
• See her a bit less than we are already doing for the "Longing" effect. As long as I have genuine reasons to see her less, I know she will accept this from time to time.
• Remove my attention for a longer time than usual to make her work out her issues. It may be worth a shot if things get out of hand at some point
• Talk to her in calm times if she is feeling/seems overwhelmed and how she can dial it down

And the ultimate trumph card is to walk away completely. I honestly don't think we are close to it. And the purpose of this thread is to avoid we reach that point.

I have answered some of your comments below to shed more light on our relationship

First of all, are you living together? This can make it pretty difficult to compartmentalize problems and give proper 'breathing room' and time for lone self-reflection. This is an order of magnitude more so if you both work from home.

Secondly, do you spend all your free time together? In my experience a little bit of longing goes a long way toward putting problems in perspective. I remember when one of my girlfriends moved out (we were half broken up at the time) whenever I went to see her she had the sweetest and most enthusiastic attitude and the time we spent together was wonderful, she'd even put on music and dance for me (oh brazilian girls ..)

We live separately. We spend a lot of free time together, and it has been increasing gradually. It's not far off to say we spend maybe 90% of our free time together at the moment. We live 10 minutes away from each other. It's easy to schedule something if we both have time and want to meet.

With that said, I have a job where I sometimes work around the clock and every day is a possible workday (or off-day) for me. Meanwhile she works a regular day job five days a week. So the 90% is just the free time we have simultaneously. I may have some days off while she is working.

If more than one day goes between us meeting, she is desperate for my attention because she misses me. I could maybe work this angle more to get more busy in our mutual free time

Keeping a bit of distance and time apart is one way to keep a relationship feeling energetic, but what I've found is that when a girl is regularly acting up there's something fundamental she's not happy about. Things like:

- She wants to move forward in the relationship but you don't or aren't doing so
- She expected you to be at a different point in your life by now but you are languishing
- She's not being fulfilled in some way, for example she doesn't enjoy the activities you do together or wants to do something else
- Etc

At the end of the day you're going to have to reflect on things and try to understand the bigger picture so you are one step ahead and can lead her rather than reacting to her outbursts.

We have had these talks before. Unless she's withholding something or not consciously aware of it, it's not the relationship she's mad about per se.

Like I wrote above, her tantrums are about random topics. It can be a really bad day at work, she's not satisfied with her weight loss progress, she couldn't find the exact food she was looking for (she follows a particular diet for health reasons) etc. And she takes these things to a level where I feel like I have tried every opportunity in the book to not get drained.

Look into ADD/ADHD meltdowns. Sounds like it might match your girl:

How to Deal with ADHD Meltdowns in Adults | HealthyPlace

ADHD meltdowns in adults are frightening. Discover why they happen, plus how to manage and prevent adult ADHD meltdowns on HealthyPlace.

www.healthyplace.com

Basically what happens is people with ADD get overwhelmed and snap, and the emotions come pouring out. Then they feel bad about it later.

Funny thing - she has some suspicion she is undiagnosed ADHD, although this is based on tiktok videos... But I think it's only her way to deal with her overload that shows sign of ADD/ADHD. I have never seen her having attention deficiency (actually quite the opposite - but that seems to be a trademark of ADD/ADHD if they do things they really like). She is prone to hyperactivity during conversations and how she goes on about her days.

She definitely feels bad about her tantrums, though... it has been one of her pitfalls most of her life, according to herself. She's very aware and self-conscious of this.

I asked her if she ever went to a psychologist to get therapy for these tantrums. For reasons I won't get into, it hasn't been possible yet

But the meltdowns and tantrums are aggravating. It's not something they can ever stop doing, unless you could somehow confine them to some kind of peaceful utopian mountain monastery where they never get overwhelmed ever. Even then they would probably find something to get stressed out about anyway and yell at the monks, lol.

hilarious. If we are teasing each other, I am definitely going to use that one...

(if it turns out she is undiagnosed ADD, don't have her take the medication. All it does is depress symptoms temporarily, until the brain adapts, and then she ends up dependent on the medication to maintain the same level as the old normal her was at, and going off it leads to worsened behavior / withdrawal. There are several studies on this that take all the research on ADD medicine to task... the studies all look at preteens and teens and don't control for the normal improvement in ADD symptoms preteens and teens normally have as they age, so end up concluding the medicine is responsible for what is actually normal developmental improvement they end up having with or without medication)

Appreciate this!

 

[Skills]

I am getting more frustrated with some of my gf's behavior that is becoming more frequent, and it shows. We are not sure how to handle it

About us
My girlfriend and I have been together a year and two months. We were vibing from day one and the sex was (is) hot. Due to recent health issues, we have both had hard times being intimate with the other. But it's still hot as long as we take care of ourselves, do positions that are not hurting us, and work out too.

She's moody and becomes "hangry". She's also hot-tempered and doesn't always like the feedback or suggestions I'm giving in that moment, but she comes around when she thinks more about it.

I'm a chill guy. I like to think things through for a little time before I answer, regardless of how I feel about it.

Like with any other person than my gf, I don't respond well to people telling me stuff while yelling or shouting. But in a calm and thoughtful way, I can listen to feedback or just someone complaining. And if there are sad or angry emotions in my gf I accept she can share this with me. This is how it is often.

The issue
However, sometimes her concerns get out in a confusing way with too much temper or intense emotions in it. I always try to figure out what exactly it is her main concern is. She knows I'm no mind-reader, and she isn't trying to contain any information on purpose. Sometimes it's about herself, sometimes about me, and sometimes about something else. So no consistent pattern in the topic

Attempts to solve things
Any attempts at cheering her up or coming up with solutions don't have any effect though. Even hugging her or just listening have no effect. She's not in a state to receive any affection or any advice.

But she's telling me about it regardless, and then I can't determine what her intentions are, or what she expects from me. And unfortunately, she can't tell me herself because she can't keep it bottled up for too long in these particular cases. And then she hasn't thought about what she wants in that moment. And when we talk about it in calmer times, she tells me basically that this is just the way she is in these instances, and doesn't know how to handle it in a more productive way

Consequences
It has gotten to a point where I am getting frustrated about it myself because it is happening more - weekly. And sometimes I slip and tell her annoyingly and in frustration - because I will get drained if all I do is listen. But slipping up and telling her hasn't exactly helped my energy levels either...

And then as the day passes, I have spent too much energy on her and have less energy to spend with her later when things are good.

Right now, it is as if she needs to "take" some of my energy in these instances and drag me down with her, instead of letting me pull her up.

My ideas
The only idea I can come up with is for her to talk more with her friends about these pressing concerns she shares out of the blue. She has been talking to and seeing her friends less because we share more time together. She has also told me this herself

But besides that, I have no idea if I have to just accept this side of her, or if there is any way we can both come out on the other side with more energy. We have tried to talk about solutions, but we are not sure how to move on in a productive manner.

And if there is no way to solve this, then I wonder what I should do to not spend too much energy on these blow-ups...

Thank you for reading... let me know if I'm just getting drained from a hot-tempered girl being hot-tempered, or if there is anything I haven't thought of that may work out

unfortunately in this case the problem is you...

When women vent they just want to let out, they are not looking for solutions unless they specifically ask..... Men are different when you think someone is telling you about an issue, like you with this post, you are looking for answers or solutions....

^ tell her that now you got her and you understand why you guys have communication issues...... Tell her the next time she vents you will stay quiet and you will ask her: listening or solution..... If she says listening you just stay quiet...

This is hard on men, men internalize women issues and look for solutions, this is not the case in the way women communicate with each other...

 

[Zoro]

Good boundaries can help.

If she knows that she will cross a line with you, and that mean she will lose you, then she will be motivated to put in more effort to figure out whatever is going on.

Right now it sounds like you two are very comfortable around each other, so she’s okay with just letting her baggage out for you to deal with.

As her partner, you can certainly give her your support, but know where your boundaries are, and communicate them and make them mean something.

She needs support, but she’s over taxing you. You’re her boyfriend, not her father, friends, and therapist rolled into one.

I imagine there is a possibility she is wondering where the relationship is going, and one thing to know about men and women is that men are pretty much ok with good sex and company forever, where women will want a relation to develop. It doesn’t sound like this is the main issue, but it could be part of it.

 

[POB]

Two words: remove attention (AKA soft next).
Once she starts this behavior, say nothing.
Just look at her like a father looks at a small child that is misbehaving, move your head side to side, turn your back and leave.

If it's a small tantrum, give it 3-5 days and resume the relationship like nothing happened
If it's big drama, 7+ days.
Soft-next means zero contact.
- no calls
- no texting
- not even liking photos on social media
If she contacts you before the period expires, ignore her.

This is something she's gotta fix, not you.
And the best help you can give her is to remove attention.
She has to learn how to be rational when she is frustrated, or else she'll be alone.
Don't be her emotional tampon, it sucks.

 

[Lover]

Update

It happened on the phone yesterday when she wanted to meet at her place. I had to refuse kindly as I was tired from a around-the-clock shift and felt like resting at my own place. Told her she could come here instead. She starts venting and raising her voice in a vicitm-like way because she had it so rough. I told her firmly that I didn't felt like seeing her anymore today because I didn't feel like getting suggestions in this way. I just had no tolerance at this point. Some seconds of complete silence later and while holding her breath she says see you

She sent couple of texts in the evening. I saw the first two and was about to respond. But as I was crafting my text, I felt it was hopeless and stopped, remembering your suggestions of soft nexting. Moved on and got on with my evening. It was nerve-wrecking at first, and I felt concerns for her emotions. But as the hours pass by, I get more comfortable with it and feel confident it is the right decision at this point.

She tried calling me this morning and sent more texts. I swiped the notifications to the side. I will ignore her today as well, text her tomorrow and "resume like nothing happened"

 

[TestY]

Interesting issue. For what it's worth, here's my take:
- Chase talks about complainers vs fixers. Complainers like to complain and seek emotional validation. But this isn't necessarily constructive, as the cycle continues.
- One solution would be to help her take more responsibility so as to get more efficacy, and therefore feel less like a victim and complain less. I really like Brian Tracy's approach to achieving this shift in his " Psychology Of Achievement":

The instant we stop blaming, our negative emotions stop. We stop blaming by immediately saying, "I am responsible, I am responsible," every single time something happens that causes us to feel angry or upset. Besides "I like myself," "I am responsible" is the most powerful positive affirmation we can use to assert complete control over our thoughts, our emotions and our destinies as human beings"

Personally, I would caution against an approach of ignoring, as I believe it could undermine her fundamental trust in the relationship - which could snowball into other issues. I believe firm boundaries would be better, perhaps along the lines of Tony Robbins' "Ultimate Relationship Guide".

 

[Lover]

unfortunately in this case the problem is you...

When women vent they just want to let out, they are not looking for solutions unless they specifically ask..... Men are different when you think someone is telling you about an issue, like you with this post, you are looking for answers or solutions....

^ tell her that now you got her and you understand why you guys have communication issues...... Tell her the next time she vents you will stay quiet and you will ask her: listening or solution..... If she says listening you just stay quiet...

This is hard on men, men internalize women issues and look for solutions, this is not the case in the way women communicate with each other...

Is there a third short term solution my girl is looking for?

You see... when she gets in that mood and has "heavy" feelings, listening is not enough. Because just talking about the issue is not helping her. Some of her issues are solvable, but at that point she either can't find the energy to solve it and let go of the tension. She gets too absorbed in her feelings and obsesses over them. And when I tell her "it sounds rough baby", her answer is "but you understanding isn't solving anything". Sometimes hugging her helps defusing, but most of the time it just increases the tension she feels... so ya feels like things escalate instead of defusing

And coming up with solutions doesn't matter - she already knows them. I skipped that long ago to avoid the Male Fixer Mentality

Chase said she might be overwhelmed, which is truly a possibility. But when she's in that mood, she is venting and impossible to reason with.

I think I will play around with options like going to another room, take a walk or ask her to take a walk - basically separate each other for a little while. I'm open to suggestions though

 

[Skills]

Is there a third short term solution my girl is looking for?

You see... when she gets in that mood and has "heavy" feelings, listening is not enough. Because just talking about the issue is not helping her. Some of her issues are solvable, but at that point she either can't find the energy to solve it and let go of the tension. She gets too absorbed in her feelings and obsesses over them. And when I tell her "it sounds rough baby", her answer is "but you understanding isn't solving anything". Sometimes hugging her helps defusing, but most of the time it just increases the tension she feels... so ya feels like things escalate instead of defusing

And coming up with solutions doesn't matter - she already knows them. I skipped that long ago to avoid the Male Fixer Mentality

Chase said she might be overwhelmed, which is truly a possibility. But when she's in that mood, she is venting and impossible to reason with.

I think I will play around with options like going to another room, take a walk or ask her to take a walk - basically separate each other for a little while. I'm open to suggestions though

I see, yeah if she disrespect, gently correction, if she does not adjust, you may have to soft next like pob and top cat saying...in my experience girls i had to soft next though were usually toxic relationships ending up getting rid of those girls... thing is this the problem with no having boundaries from the start...

P.s. review this post by pure evil indirectly related

Long-Term - The serial monogamy lifestyle- Riding the pair bond rush from pure evil (repost)

Ok guys i just got a massive legit headache talking to poly guys that never have or minimally have done monogamy, about monogamy, most of them kjing... Anyways, before i post, the name of the poster/author is pure evil he was one of my favorite poster in nextasf, now retired flirted with coming...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Lover]

We talked on the phone after the next ended. I wanted to continue like nothing happened, but she wanted to understand my side of things. She didn't get how her behavior led to the soft next and with no warning shot. Told me (calmly) it felt disrespectful and distrustful. She felt terrible not hearing from me at all (she blew up my phone) and not knowing if I was hurt or not. How she thought I was different from other guys, and she had a bad experience once but with a guy ghosting her... she was unsure I was breaking up. Basically she did anything in her power to argue I should not do this again

Told her it was her own behavior that led to this. I pointed out what exact behaviors she was displaying that made me withdraw. I made sure to tell her firmly and repeatedly it's her responsibility to tell things calmly during intense emotions and where I draw the line. And crossing the line will result in me doing what I have to do to stay happy and cheerful and not falling into the black hole.

That's the gist of it. I felt no guilt telling her exactly how I see things and I don't feel bad for anything I did. Mind you - I have told her before where I draw the line to avoid getting here. But now that we are here, she knows there are consequences.

I'm a man of my word - I like that. Let's see what happens from here...

Any feedback is appreciated

 

[topcat]

We talked on the phone after the next ended. I wanted to continue like nothing happened, but she wanted to understand my side of things. She didn't get how her behavior led to the soft next and with no warning shot. Told me (calmly) it felt disrespectful and distrustful. She felt terrible not hearing from me at all (she blew up my phone) and not knowing if I was hurt or not. How she thought I was different from other guys, and she had a bad experience once but with a guy ghosting her... she was unsure I was breaking up. Basically she did anything in her power to argue I should not do this again

Told her it was her own behavior that led to this. I pointed out what exact behaviors she was displaying that made me withdraw. I made sure to tell her firmly and repeatedly it's her responsibility to tell things calmly during intense emotions and where I draw the line. And crossing the line will result in me doing what I have to do to stay happy and cheerful and not falling into the black hole.

That's the gist of it. I felt no guilt telling her exactly how I see things and I don't feel bad for anything I did. Mind you - I have told her before where I draw the line to avoid getting here. But now that we are here, she knows there are consequences.

I'm a man of my word - I like that. Let's see what happens from here...

Any feedback is appreciated

You know how when you take a cake out the oven before it’s done baking, it deflates?

That’s what you did with your soft close. It was just starting to work, then you ended it too soon.

You don’t address a soft close verbally. You implement it. Then you ignore her protests. Then resume (ie. set up the next meet) like nothing happened.

Your girl needed a few more days to cook. She hasn’t learnt her lesson. You just rewarded her for breaking a weak soft close facepalm

 

[topcat]

EDIT: soft next**

 

[Lover]

You know how when you take a cake out the oven before it’s done baking, it deflates?

That’s what you did with your soft close. It was just starting to work, then you ended it too soon.

You don’t address a soft close verbally. You implement it. Then you ignore her protests. Then resume (ie. set up the next meet) like nothing happened.

Your girl needed a few more days to cook. She hasn’t learnt her lesson. You just rewarded her for breaking a weak soft close facepalm

Damn... I feel like a disappointment now but ya I get the point

This was my first soft next where I just initiated it with no warning shot and stayed silent for the whole duration, and it was a nerve-wracking but necessary experience... tried it once before and the girl showed up at my door unwarranted and woke me up from my sleep the next morning... invited her inside to talk lol

 

[Chase]

@Lover,

I’ll differ with @topcat a bit here and say this is fine, considering the circumstances. Actually you should not have used this tactic how you used it (totally unannounced), at least not here.

Like your chick notes, you gave no warning. This is a 14-month-old relationship with established precedent where you do not normally behave this way. If you’d been doing it from the start (she flips out; you ghost for N days), she would understand it. When all of a sudden you flip from Behavior 1 to Behavior 2, 14 months in, something seems wrong.

Dating and Relationship Precedent: Why It’s So Very Important

Poorly-set precedent: it's the scourge of relationships across the face of mankind. Every day, the whole of the male sex collectively writhes in agony at its own terribly-set precedent coming back to haunt it - and bit it right in the ass.

www.girlschase.com

The issue is that you are trying to connect “you flipped out on me” with “I didn’t talk to you for two days.” But she’s flipped out on you many times before. So what’s different about this time? Because of the precedent, she is going to tend to NOT believe you. She will think there must be some other reason. So she feels hurt and suspicious.

The way you do sudden precedent 180s like this is to announce them first. e.g., “If you keep blowing your stack at me, one of these days I am going to have enough of it. I am just going to hang the phone up and refuse to talk to you for a few days. Just to get my peace of mind back.” Then the next time she does it, you do that. Now it is announced, and she forms the connection in her mind.

Personally, I would not have done a soft next here WITHOUT preparing the ground for it. You just create this situation where she does not learn the lesson. Instead, you introduce suspicion into the relationship and lower relationship security.

Reversing Poor Past Precedent with Girls You Like

Alex writes in with a question about a follow-up article to the one on precedent: “Dating and Relationship Precedent: Why It’s So Very Important.” Here's his email: “Hi Chase and friends at girlschase.com Your articles are amazing! I found Chase's article on precedent to be thought-provoking...

www.girlschase.com

Your task now is to rebuild trust and security, while seeding whatever new precedent you want to set for her misbehavior. If that’s “When you blow up at me, I ghost for N days” then it should be clear. A hot-tempered girl is going to struggle to understand that, because her temper comes and goes quick, and because people project, she will assume it’s the same for you. Blows up at you and gets really pissed? Well, she’s calmed back down and fine now! You mean you AREN’T? What?? You are still holding onto that? It already ended like 20 minutes ago!!!

One easy way to explain this: “You are quick tempered; I am slow tempered. You can blow up over anything, and then a short while later you are fine again. Me, it takes me a while to get pissed off, but once I am pissed it hangs over me like a cloud and I need to get away from the source of aggravation until I’ve regained my calm. So you can go storming around throwing tantrums if you want, but if it gets too crazy, then I just need to get away from you until I’ve collected myself again.”

You can always suggest she sign up for anger management therapy.

Or, if this is just more than you want to handle, it may also just not be the right relationship and you need a more low-key chick instead.

Chase

edit: hot-tempered vs. slow-tempered:

HOT: "Why you hit me like that, Charles?"​

​

COLD: "'Cuz you hit me, man!"​

​

HOT: "That was weeks ago, motherfucker!"​

 

[Will_V]

Agree with @Chase here, I'd go with @topcat's approach for a brand new girl but not an established LTR.

In relationships you'll notice that words quickly lose a lot of meaning - precisely because they do not have consequences. People are not used to applying consequences in situations where they have something to lose, which is a very weak frame. So they add a lot more words with even less consequences, hence a lot of drama and arguing and blabbering.

You want to get to a point where your words are as good as reality. And train her to understand that by constantly saying things and then bringing them about. That way as soon as you say 'if you do X then Y will happen' it doesn't matter how furious she is, she knows it's true, and then saying it is often enough.

And it's always better when words are all you need, especially when she's putting you in a situation that's going to cost both of you.

 

[topcat]

@Lover, go with what @Will_V and @Chase have prescribed. Seems the more emotionally intelligent way to go about it.

I tend to be a tad heavy handed in my LTR’s with regards to behaviours i don’t like. Which leads to some pretty extreme results - a super compliant girl or a gone girl

To apply a soft next as i suggested you really have to be comfortable with the idea that you may never see her again, and believe that it is better to be alone in peace than together in chaos.

When i’ve soft nexted later in the game (say post 9 months) they have gotten furious or even insecure about it. At which point, when we do reconcile i calmly explain my point, hear them out, and explain that as long as the behaviour that triggered my exit keeps up it’ll probably happen again so don’t expect an apology from me.

YMMV, there’re are probably nicer ways to go about it.

 

[Lover]

Lots of golden nuggets here guys. You are the best!

We met up. She didn't mind I removed my attention. She's holding herself responsible. She just wants a warning shot another time, which I said I will do to the best of my abilities. She still needs some time to fully restore her trust for me, which I accept. The vibe is okay for now.

I'm usually a very empathetic guy. And lots of her confusion seem to come from not giving a warning shot. I see the incongruity. It also explains why my ex (back then of one year) showed up at my door back then when I attempted a soft next. It's terrifying and it makes people worry the hell about you.

The next is powerful whether we do it right or wrong. This has been a good experience