How to properly, completely ignore uninterested women?

[DarkKnight]

Classic dual auto-rejection:

1. Guy likes girl
2. Girl likes guy
3. Guy tries to get girl out
4. Girl plays hard to get
5. Guy gives up and auto-rejects, feeling bitter toward her
6. Girl detects guy's bitterness, also auto-rejects, feeling bitter toward him

You can't get a girl to chase you who is in auto-rejection.

The problem is with social circle sometimes it gets hard to be sure if a girl is playing hard to get yes or no, because she is shutting down or evading communication. And rejection is not a big deal, but there can be other things at stake, for instinse being welcome in a venue, so you cannot persist as much as you want to and this can get contrived very fast.

I too dislike social circle game for this reason when there is also a lot of social control. Girls tend to overly complicate courtship when there are already a lot of obstacles which we see, but they dont

IF social circle is not problematic with social control, persist a couple of times and then move on. For the sake of your sanity. There is a cut off point needed. So actually I do understand OP in this regard. Seeing eachother a lot of times can also raise your investment and infatuation.. we know how this goes .

Lets get practical
how would you @Chase determine in social circle if girl is playing hard to get yes/no? Because basically this is the reason why OP autorejected. He figured the girl does not like him but is leading him on

 

[Chase]

@PaulieFlyn10 & @DarkKnight,

I can tell you personally when I have been in social circle situations where a girl seemed flirtatious but was evading doing anything one-on-one with me, what I have done was to basically work to move myself back to the periphery of her circle.

If you recall from this article:

The Secret to Hooking Up with Friends

If you're in college, or you ever went to college, you're familiar with a phenomenon that's known widely today as "hook up culture:" the Western tradition of getting together for quick flings and casual intimacy with your friends. The way it's supposed to work is, you go out and get drunk, and...

www.girlschase.com

The main point was that girls typically hook up with men peripheral to their social circles, and are a lot more cautious with men in their core social circles. Every time I have had a girl doing this "seems really interested but also gets weird if I try making some kind of move" situation it is with a girl I started seeing too much of socially and whose social circle I became a fixture of.

So you rotate back out of her circle, focus on spending more time with different circles, then only occasionally meet up with the circle she's in. When you do, if you're friendly and chill, often you will get that, "Hey! I never see you anymore! We should hang out more!" chat from her. At that point you can tell her for sure, let's grab drinks or something sometime. The follow-up is the moment of truth: if she persists in trying to get you to group activities, she's not ready for it yet. Keep her on your periphery and pursue other girls. With a little luck (or strategy) some of them will preselect you and you can try again.

OTOH, if she's down to meet you one-on-one, you're in good shape. Get her out one-on-one and see where her head is at.

The only one I can't weigh in on much is school/work circles where you're just always around the same girl all the time and there's no way to reduce your exposure to her. Or if it's some kind of super important core social circle to you that you don't want to spend less time with, and the girl's also a fixture there. The only experience I have resetting girls' attitudes toward me in those situations came from taking on positions of authority (e.g., becoming a teacher's assistant in college, and suddenly girls I was around a lot saw me very differently) or introducing some preselection, like by bringing a hot girl date to a social gathering and letting the women of the group see how into me that girl is.

But those core circles... aside from authority or preselection, you'd need to find a guy who specialized in social circle who could comment more on getting those hard-to-get girls who already see you as a fixture.

Lets get practical
how would you @Chase determine in social circle if girl is playing hard to get yes/no? Because basically this is the reason why OP autorejected. He figured the girl does not like him but is leading him on

Easy one: if she gets ice-cold when you give her the cold shoulder, that's auto-rejection, and she liked you.

If she acts sympathetic, like how you would toward a pouty child, then she was never actually into you.

If you want to know before you go arms-crossed, never-gonna-talk-to-that-bitch-again shut-down mode like what @Whiteheart did there, the best move is getting her isolated in a social circle situation and acting flirtatious with her out of sight from everyone else. If she's into you, she'll be visibly excited. If she isn't, she'll be visibly uncomfortable, trying to squirm away from you and get back to the group. Then you know.

Chase

 

[DarkKnight]

@Chase they tend to get ice-cold until they cannot stop themselves from re-engaging me again hahaha.

If she acts sympathetic, like how you would toward a pouty child, then she was never actually into you.

Good to know, glad this is not the case. Means I'm alpha, I'm a top dog.

Anyway... I recall from one chick who was similar to the one I mentioned also doing weird shenenigans despite that I sense that she is interested but I am not willing to put myself out there because it will destroy things for me which I like as well, not worth the risk.. but this chick got kicked out of that social environment and I think she felt the ocstracizing making her weaker, but her always present but hidden interest came up as well and she gave me AI like no tomorrow, unfortunately for her I was with another girl and she got into a very vengeful autorejection.

But if I have to go periphery just for the sake of getting her, no just no, it deviates from everything else I want to do so Ill pass. I also figured it was mainly social circle concerns that this one has.

If she isn't, she'll be visibly uncomfortable, trying to squirm away from you and get back to the group. Then you know.

euw, yuk when they do that

 

[OldGuy]

To answer the original question, treat her the way you would your grandmother's childhood friend. Don't cut her (grandma would ask you why you were rude to her friend), but you are polite and in a hurry (her friend says how polite you were.

 

[Whiteheart]

Classic dual auto-rejection:

1. Guy likes girl
2. Girl likes guy
3. Guy tries to get girl out
4. Girl plays hard to get
5. Guy gives up and auto-rejects, feeling bitter toward her
6. Girl detects guy's bitterness, also auto-rejects, feeling bitter toward him

You can't get a girl to chase you who is in auto-rejection. You can only mollify her auto-rejection, which takes game:

Tactics Tuesdays: How to Turn Around a Girl in Auto-Rejection

A girl who’s in auto-rejection gets cold and snubs you. To turn it around and effect a recovery, you must use this 4-step formula. This is a firefighting post. I say that because if you do things right you won’t have to fix anything. But we all make mistakes. On my article about screening girls...

www.girlschase.com

Of course, you yourself are also in auto-rejection. Which means you will not be able to get yourself to do that:

Stop Auto-Rejecting Girls Who Like You

“You wannafourfour?” Around a year and a half ago, this Tinder message buzzes my phone as I drive back to school. I’m returning from a trial shift at a club I hope to work at for the upcoming summer. Despite my good mood, however, I’m confused. What the hell is “fourfour”? The girl messaging me...

www.girlschase.com

You cannot game a girl while you are in auto-rejection. Asking for things to do with her tactically, while you yourself are in auto-rejection, is pointless. There are things that will work, but you will not be able to execute any of them.



Yep, precisely.

They screw it up, there's dual auto-rejection, and then you have this cold war between the guy and girl in social circle, with both of them acting bitchy toward each other, trying to see who will crack first. Sometimes it leads to escalating jealousy plotlines, or each one trying to exclude the other from things, and feelings get even more hurt.

But you'll never not get guys lacking game to not do social circle. It's like trying to stop a man dying of thirst from drinking muddy water in a puddle on the road. If that's the only water around, he'll stick his face right in the pothole and start guzzling.

@Whiteheart, if you are unable to learn game, I would focus my efforts toward some other method of getting women. Game is the best, hands down, but there are others. Start a rock band, get good enough to play gigs in popular bars where the girls all see you singing... get an authority role somewhere you'll be around lots of hot girls... etc.

By the way, this is untrue:



Because this ENTIRE post is about your frustration that this girl has removed herself from your 'audience' and is now no longer judging you in any way:



You are STILL trying to game her (and she is still trying to game you).

The problem is you have both reached the point where neither of you knows what else to do, and have both reverted to the low-odds strategy of "show I'm so indifferent that the other one HAS to crack and chase after me to try to make amends!"

You can pursue these lowest of low odds strategies... who knows, they have been known to work before on rare occasions...

But I would try something else.

If not game, I would look for some other angle guys use to get girls, be that money, fame, etc.

You're still trying to get girls, just like any guy. You're just using super ineffective means to try to get them.

Chase

@Chase
So how do I know when a girl is an attention seeker and when she's pretending to be hard to get? It seems to me that what you say about whether a girl likes you or not is a poor determinant of whether she is really interested. Well, I met a lot of girls who adjusted clothes, touched hair or most often looked at me horny with bright, big eyes and who rejected me multiple times when I asked them about any kind of one-on-one compliance. For me, these girls are attention seekers or some other category who may like me a little but are clearly not interested in me. Now, when I show an extremely disinterested attitude towards them, some remain so neutral and most go into auto-rejection. My guess is that a girl who is ignored goes into auto-rejection regardless of whether she was interested or just wanted attention.

This hard-to-get category should be described in more detail in seduction in order to avoid mutual frustrations of men who have done everything they could but she still doesn't want them and women who seem to ˮlike youˮ but still don't want you.

 

[Chase]

@Whiteheart,

Now, when I show an extremely disinterested attitude towards them, some remain so neutral and most go into auto-rejection. My guess is that a girl who is ignored goes into auto-rejection regardless of whether she was interested or just wanted attention.

I went through my haughty stage, where I auto-rejected girls I couldn't get anywhere with, and I can tell you this: if she auto-rejects back, there was something she was very needy for from you that she is now very bitter she cannot get.

The possible things a heterosexual woman may have been needy for from you:

• Romance
• Sex
• Money (if you are rich)
• Connections (if you are well-connected)

It won't be friendship, because a straight girl who is THAT needy for your friendship will have sexual/romantic feelings mixed in. The only time you get girls super needy about friendship with you who do not have sexual/romantic desire mixed in is if they are butch lesbians who simply are not sexually/romantically attracted to men.

Given these girls are acting flirtatious, my guess is you're not rolling deep with a posse of butch lesbians.

Girls also won't auto-reject you simply because you aren't giving them attention, when attention/validation is all they want. They can just get it from a different guy. No girl will spend the mental energy on going into auto-rejection over you, getting all worked up and upset toward you, just because you aren't checking her out, when the ONLY thing she wants from you is to check her out.

She WILL get that way when she wants you to check her out because she is romantically or sexually interested in you.

So here's the process of elimination to figure out what this girl or any girl wanted from you:

1. Did she auto-reject you? If NO, then no strong wants from you. However if YES, then:
   
   
2. Do you have a lot of money and throw that money around? Was she trying to get it, but you wouldn't spend money on her? She's a gold-digger and auto-rejected because you wouldn't pay for things for her. If this does not apply, then:
   
   
3. Are you the super-connected party guy or business deal-maker who knows all the people everybody needs to know? Was she hoping you'd hook her up with party access or her future career, only for you to give her the cold shoulder? If this does not apply, then:
   
   
4. She wanted to date you OR at least to bang you.

This hard-to-get category should be described in more detail in seduction in order to avoid mutual frustrations of men who have done everything they could but she still doesn't want them and women who seem to ˮlike youˮ but still don't want you.

I just searched the Field Reports Board for field reports from you.

I see two, both FU reports, posted over the last almost 3 years.

My very strong suspicion is you have little field experience with women and do not have much you are actually able to do in your "everything you could do" repertoire.

I bet if you 10x the number of field reports you have up over, say, the next four months, you will have some pretty significant breakthroughs in your understanding of women, not to mention your toolbox of "everything you know how to do."

Chase

 

[Whiteheart]

@Whiteheart,



I went through my haughty stage, where I auto-rejected girls I couldn't get anywhere with, and I can tell you this: if she auto-rejects back, there was something she was very needy for from you that she is now very bitter she cannot get.

The possible things a heterosexual woman may have been needy for from you:

• Romance
• Sex
• Money (if you are rich)
• Connections (if you are well-connected)

It won't be friendship, because a straight girl who is THAT needy for your friendship will have sexual/romantic feelings mixed in. The only time you get girls super needy about friendship with you who do not have sexual/romantic desire mixed in is if they are butch lesbians who simply are not sexually/romantically attracted to men.

Given these girls are acting flirtatious, my guess is you're not rolling deep with a posse of butch lesbians.

Girls also won't auto-reject you simply because you aren't giving them attention, when attention/validation is all they want. They can just get it from a different guy. No girl will spend the mental energy on going into auto-rejection over you, getting all worked up and upset toward you, just because you aren't checking her out, when the ONLY thing she wants from you is to check her out.

She WILL get that way when she wants you to check her out because she is romantically or sexually interested in you.

So here's the process of elimination to figure out what this girl or any girl wanted from you:

1. Did she auto-reject you? If NO, then no strong wants from you. However if YES, then:
   
   
2. Do you have a lot of money and throw that money around? Was she trying to get it, but you wouldn't spend money on her? She's a gold-digger and auto-rejected because you wouldn't pay for things for her. If this does not apply, then:
   
   
3. Are you the super-connected party guy or business deal-maker who knows all the people everybody needs to know? Was she hoping you'd hook her up with party access or her future career, only for you to give her the cold shoulder? If this does not apply, then:
   
   
4. She wanted to date you OR at least to bang you.

I just searched the Field Reports Board for field reports from you.

I see two, both FU reports, posted over the last almost 3 years.

My very strong suspicion is you have little field experience with women and do not have much you are actually able to do in your "everything you could do" repertoire.

I bet if you 10x the number of field reports you have up over, say, the next four months, you will have some pretty significant breakthroughs in your understanding of women, not to mention your toolbox of "everything you know how to do."

Chase

@Chase

Let's assume that it is as you say, that auto-rejection is caused by a woman not getting the things she wants from a man. But the very concept of auto-rejection is ridiculous and contradictory. So, she wants a relationship/sex but "can't get it" even though you do everything in that direction. Attainability is too small, although it is not your fault that you are better and better than her, nor can she bear it, regardless of what that man will do.

In any case, I believe that the main cause of auto-rejection is that you are you are better than her and that it has nothing to do with whether she is interested in you. The reason is that I met many girls who were initially neutral towards me and later when they heard some good things about me (which they don't have or to a lesser extent than I do) they started to hate me and look for ways to make me feel bad by ignoring or retaliating insults. Also, I often had cases where the girl went into auto-rejection literally as soon as I opened my mouth or during the conversation when she finally found a sentence that she didn't like. Once she even started to test me, to confuse me with tests, and as I was answering everything cool and she was smiling and enjoying the conversation, she suddenly went into auto-rejection (literally, at one moment she was laughing and at the next she became sullen and asked me to leave).

Also, the most important thing. Many girls who were in auto-rejection claimed that they don't like me at all and that I am like this and that, and they are the epitome of attractiveness. Literally. Also, another example. I once met a very ugly girl. In the beginning, she was nice and cultured, and as you advised me to expand my circle of friends (in particular, she had a beautiful friend and I hoped to meet her through her) and she said that she wanted to make friends, I decided to occasionally invite her to someone gathering or text her. However, when we parted, not only did she later refuse all invitations to such a thing, but she also wrote that she would not correspond and that I should leave her alone. Later, on some forum, she treated her complexes and stated that she didn't like me at all, so I didn't deserve to get reply, that I tried to get closer to her by pretending to be a friend, that she never wants to see me, etc.

I would write a lot of field reports. However, I am afraid that they treat the symptom more than the cause of the disease, i.e. probably each of you more experienced seducers would have found some sentence that it was bad in that whole interaction, but still the main reason that a certain girl was uninterested is that she wasn't into me from the beginning (often just low attainability/similarity because I am not ordinary like them) and was just looking for a reason to ditch me.

 

[Chase]

Oh dude. You're on the autism spectrum? Or maybe you haven't been tested.

But yeah:

1. Inability to realize other people are feeling/behaving the same exact way you are
2. Sweeping uncharitable assumptions about others external to you
3. Strange theories/conclusions about the thoughts and behavior of others that don't seem to stem from anything they actually do
4. Rigid closed-mindedness about topics you're not an expert on and strong resistance to viewpoint change

Mind blindness. I was about to chew you out here but I realized mid-response you're not able to peer into someone else's head and see things the way another person does. That's a huge handicap.

Why Autistic People Struggle with Dating: Mind Blindness

Men with Asperger’s struggle with “social confusion.” Others often behave in ways that seem irrational to them. Why is this so, and is there anything they can do? I write this article for every guy on the autism spectrum, whether he's on it a little or on it a lot.

www.girlschase.com

Anyway, I'm sure you'll resist it regardless, but I'll point out your logical and empathetic failures here, just in case it's useful.

@Chase

Let's assume that it is as you say, that auto-rejection is caused by a woman not getting the things she wants from a man. But the very concept of auto-rejection is ridiculous and contradictory. So, she wants a relationship/sex but "can't get it" even though you do everything in that direction. Attainability is too small, although it is not your fault that you are better and better than her, nor can she bear it, regardless of what that man will do.

In any case, I believe that the main cause of auto-rejection is that you are you are better than her and that it has nothing to do with whether she is interested in you.

It's a little weird to me how often you will see autistic guys trying to puzzle out some behavior they don't understand, where step #1 is to reject the most solidly-evidenced explanation because it doesn't serve their needs, then step #2 is to concoct a "full of holes" attempted explanation, while hand-waving the actual explanation away.

Your explanation here is: "auto-rejection is not an ego defense mechanism triggered by a broad spectrum of potential unmet needs. Instead it is caused by a singular circumstance: the auto-rejected person is superior to the auto-rejecting person."

Following your redefinition:

1. First, you auto-rejected this girl, because she is superior to you.
2. After that, she auto-rejected you, because you are superior to her.
3. You and her now exist in some kind of Schrödinger's cat quantum state of each of you being at once superior and inferior to the other.
4. This, in your mind, is apparently(?) not contradictory at all.

Your attempted redefinition is wrong, sorry.

Auto-rejection has nothing to do with anyone being "better than" anyone else. I'm not even sure how you would measure that.

This is auto-rejection:

Secrets to Getting Girls: Staying Out of Auto-Rejection

These days Sebastian Drake’s VAC attraction model is all but forgotten in the seduction community. There’s been a gold rush toward “natural game” and at the same time a supposed abandonment of the previously ubiquitous “routine-based game,” the ever-present 800-pound gorilla in pick up circles...

www.girlschase.com

The reason is that I met many girls who were initially neutral towards me and later when they heard some good things about me (which they don't have or to a lesser extent than I do) they started to hate me and look for ways to make me feel bad by ignoring or retaliating insults. Also, I often had cases where the girl went into auto-rejection literally as soon as I opened my mouth or during the conversation when she finally found a sentence that she didn't like. Once she even started to test me, to confuse me with tests, and as I was answering everything cool and she was smiling and enjoying the conversation, she suddenly went into auto-rejection (literally, at one moment she was laughing and at the next she became sullen and asked me to leave).

Reading this paragraph was what clued me in to the broad spectrum of social dysfunction you're experiencing:

• Every time I have had a guy tell me "girls suddenly start hating me and I have no idea why. It happens so much but I'm totally innocent!" it is always a deeply socially handicapped guy doing aggravating and boorish things who is oblivious to how aggravating and boorish his behavior is.
  
  
• "Girls often enter auto-rejection the moment I open my mouth" is another typical autist tell. We had an autistic guy we banned recently with this same issue (@rr2021 aka DEVENCI); he only ever wanted to do near-wordless pickups in nightclubs because the more he spoke, the worse he did with girls. Many times, like you, they turned sour on him the moment he started speaking.
  
  
• Describing everything as being "cool and she was smiling and enjoying" things, and then "suddenly" she auto-rejects, for no apparent reason, again, there are some major, major social cues you're missing there.

So it is not that you are just "dense" or suffering from actor-observer bias, which was what my original response to you was.

I mean, you ARE those things... but they are symptoms of your underlying inability to understand people, not causes themselves.

Also, the most important thing. Many girls who were in auto-rejection claimed that they don't like me at all and that I am like this and that, and they are the epitome of attractiveness. Literally.

That is how auto-rejection works, yes:

The auto-rejected person's value becomes 'invisible' to you so you can mentally reject this person and tell yourself you're superior.

It's the same thing you're doing when you talk about women you've auto-rejected auto-rejecting you, then attempt to redefine auto-rejection to some kind of measure of superiority:

"I can't get these girls. I'm auto-rejecting them. I need to discount their value somehow. I know! I'll say they're auto-rejecting me, and that auto-rejection means you are acknowledging the superiority of the one you auto-reject."

I would write a lot of field reports. However, I am afraid that they treat the symptom more than the cause of the disease, i.e. probably each of you more experienced seducers would have found some sentence that it was bad in that whole interaction, but still the main reason that a certain girl was uninterested is that she wasn't into me from the beginning (often just low attainability/similarity because I am not ordinary like them) and was just looking for a reason to ditch me.

Well, we know the cause now: you have some important social dysfunctions, seemingly some form of autism.

You are not correctly reading the behavior of others. You are blind to what is causing others to react to you how they do, leaving yourself frustrated and stumped at the extremely frequent negative reactions you get from women when socially interacting with them.

I would suggest that rather than focus on women, you focus on basic social skills development:

Social Skills 101: Basic Social Skills Are 100% Crucial

It doesn’t matter how slick you look or how many great tips you’ve absorbed. Good basic social skills must come first if you wish for social success. This is the first installment in a reboot of our old series on social skills. Social skills are the single most crucial skill set for anyone to...

www.girlschase.com

This is going to serve you best in the long-term: figuring out how to interact with people without pissing them off, aggravating them, and causing them to treat you like a rude/dense oaf. Basic social skills aren't sexy, but when they're missing everything else you might try to do with women or people gets about 1000x harder.

Good luck, man.

Chase

 

[DarkKnight]

1. First, you auto-rejected this girl, because she is superior to you.
2. After that, she auto-rejected you, because you are superior to her

Also, the most important thing. Many girls who were in auto-rejection claimed that they don't like me at all and that I am like this and that, and they are the epitome of attractiveness. Literally.

Dude Chase has explained this in his articles about autorejection. This is what autorejection is, rejecting and not seeing your value out of self preservation. Just re-read old articles.

 

[Whiteheart]

Oh dude. You're on the autism spectrum? Or maybe you haven't been tested.

But yeah:

1. Inability to realize other people are feeling/behaving the same exact way you are
2. Sweeping uncharitable assumptions about others external to you
3. Strange theories/conclusions about the thoughts and behavior of others that don't seem to stem from anything they actually do
4. Rigid closed-mindedness about topics you're not an expert on and strong resistance to viewpoint change

Mind blindness. I was about to chew you out here but I realized mid-response you're not able to peer into someone else's head and see things the way another person does. That's a huge handicap.

Why Autistic People Struggle with Dating: Mind Blindness

Men with Asperger’s struggle with “social confusion.” Others often behave in ways that seem irrational to them. Why is this so, and is there anything they can do? I write this article for every guy on the autism spectrum, whether he's on it a little or on it a lot.

www.girlschase.com

Anyway, I'm sure you'll resist it regardless, but I'll point out your logical and empathetic failures here, just in case it's useful.



It's a little weird to me how often you will see autistic guys trying to puzzle out some behavior they don't understand, where step #1 is to reject the most solidly-evidenced explanation because it doesn't serve their needs, then step #2 is to concoct a "full of holes" attempted explanation, while hand-waving the actual explanation away.

Your explanation here is: "auto-rejection is not an ego defense mechanism triggered by a broad spectrum of potential unmet needs. Instead it is caused by a singular circumstance: the auto-rejected person is superior to the auto-rejecting person."

Following your redefinition:

1. First, you auto-rejected this girl, because she is superior to you.
2. After that, she auto-rejected you, because you are superior to her.
3. You and her now exist in some kind of Schrödinger's cat quantum state of each of you being at once superior and inferior to the other.
4. This, in your mind, is apparently(?) not contradictory at all.

Your attempted redefinition is wrong, sorry.

Auto-rejection has nothing to do with anyone being "better than" anyone else. I'm not even sure how you would measure that.

This is auto-rejection:

Secrets to Getting Girls: Staying Out of Auto-Rejection

These days Sebastian Drake’s VAC attraction model is all but forgotten in the seduction community. There’s been a gold rush toward “natural game” and at the same time a supposed abandonment of the previously ubiquitous “routine-based game,” the ever-present 800-pound gorilla in pick up circles...

www.girlschase.com

Reading this paragraph was what clued me in to the broad spectrum of social dysfunction you're experiencing:

• Every time I have had a guy tell me "girls suddenly start hating me and I have no idea why. It happens so much but I'm totally innocent!" it is always a deeply socially handicapped guy doing aggravating and boorish things who is oblivious to how aggravating and boorish his behavior is.
  
  
• "Girls often enter auto-rejection the moment I open my mouth" is another typical autist tell. We had an autistic guy we banned recently with this same issue (@rr2021 aka DEVENCI); he only ever wanted to do near-wordless pickups in nightclubs because the more he spoke, the worse he did with girls. Many times, like you, they turned sour on him the moment he started speaking.
  
  
• Describing everything as being "cool and she was smiling and enjoying" things, and then "suddenly" she auto-rejects, for no apparent reason, again, there are some major, major social cues you're missing there.

So it is not that you are just "dense" or suffering from actor-observer bias, which was what my original response to you was.

I mean, you ARE those things... but they are symptoms of your underlying inability to understand people, not causes themselves.



That is how auto-rejection works, yes:

The auto-rejected person's value becomes 'invisible' to you so you can mentally reject this person and tell yourself you're superior.

It's the same thing you're doing when you talk about women you've auto-rejected auto-rejecting you, then attempt to redefine auto-rejection to some kind of measure of superiority:

"I can't get these girls. I'm auto-rejecting them. I need to discount their value somehow. I know! I'll say they're auto-rejecting me, and that auto-rejection means you are acknowledging the superiority of the one you auto-reject."



Well, we know the cause now: you have some important social dysfunctions, seemingly some form of autism.

You are not correctly reading the behavior of others. You are blind to what is causing others to react to you how they do, leaving yourself frustrated and stumped at the extremely frequent negative reactions you get from women when socially interacting with them.

I would suggest that rather than focus on women, you focus on basic social skills development:

Social Skills 101: Basic Social Skills Are 100% Crucial

It doesn’t matter how slick you look or how many great tips you’ve absorbed. Good basic social skills must come first if you wish for social success. This is the first installment in a reboot of our old series on social skills. Social skills are the single most crucial skill set for anyone to...

www.girlschase.com

This is going to serve you best in the long-term: figuring out how to interact with people without pissing them off, aggravating them, and causing them to treat you like a rude/dense oaf. Basic social skills aren't sexy, but when they're missing everything else you might try to do with women or people gets about 1000x harder.

Good luck, man.

Chase

@Chase

I respect your opinion, but you seem a bit frustrated that some of my assumptions and conclusions differ from yours. You emphasize several times that I am autistic, even though you have no direct evidence for that, except that some of my opinions differ from yours. I'm not a man, I've been tested many times and a long time ago. You tell someone who started from scratch and now probably has a much better social and material life than you that he is autistic only because he can't get some women who don't want him for various reasons, most often because he is better than them and that's why they see him as someone who is dissimilar, not their type and auto reject him immediately or at some point in the interaction (or they have no interest in him except purely social). In your seduction programs and materials, you stated several times that the main cause of auto rejection is that a woman feels inferior to a man, and now you state some complicated theories that this is the result of some unfulfilled needs of a woman (probably complex) and now the (autistic) man is to blame that he found himself in that situation.
I find this post of yours to work on basic social skills as if I'm in elementary school a bit insulting. I myself read a lot of books and could write the same articles like this.

I deeply respect you and I always like to hear your opinion, which will be directed in the debate for the understanding of female psychology and less in belittling my personality.

All the best,

 

[Will_V]

@Whiteheart seems like you're very firm in your conclusion that women are rejecting you because you're better than them.

I'd like to ask, how then do you account for all the women who throw themselves at truly successful guys - actors, celebrities, sports players, etc? Let alone the pretty well-established concept that 80% of women go after the top 20% of men, which almost by definition means that the vast majority of women want a man who is substantially 'better' than them?

Women in their daily lives are surrounded by successful men - their bosses, managers, coaches, etc - who are way more successful than them, and guess what, they don't reject such men for being better - quite the contrary. My experience, and I'm sure the experience of most men, is that women who are in the presence of highly successful men, even when those men are overconfident and boastful, become much more submissive, compliant, and enthusiastic than they do around the standard fare.

Are you going to ignore reality to this extent and simply declare that women dislike successful men? Does it not seem like a waste of time to argue this opinion about women with someone as successful with women as @Chase is, when you are clearly struggling, when you can instead learn from him and begin to turn things around?

In the end, the only one who will suffer from this is you. When the pain of failure increases to unbearable levels, we usually end up having to part with one of two things: either reality, or our excessive attachment to the ego. I have seen too many times the results of people who choose the former, and it isn't somewhere you want to be.

 

[Whiteheart]

@Whiteheart seems like you're very firm in your conclusion that women are rejecting you because you're better than them.

I'd like to ask, how then do you account for all the women who throw themselves at truly successful guys - actors, celebrities, sports players, etc? Let alone the pretty well-established concept that 80% of women go after the top 20% of men, which almost by definition means that the vast majority of women want a man who is substantially 'better' than them?

Women in their daily lives are surrounded by successful men - their bosses, managers, coaches, etc - who are way more successful than them, and guess what, they don't reject such men for being better - quite the contrary. My experience, and I'm sure the experience of most men, is that women who are in the presence of highly successful men, even when those men are overconfident and boastful, become much more submissive, compliant, and enthusiastic than they do around the standard fare.

Are you going to ignore reality to this extent and simply declare that women dislike successful men? Does it not seem like a waste of time to argue this opinion about women with someone as successful with women as @Chase is, when you are clearly struggling, when you can instead learn from him and begin to turn things around?

In the end, the only one who will suffer from this is you. When the pain of failure increases to unbearable levels, we usually end up having to part with one of two things: either reality, or our excessive attachment to the ego. I have seen too many times the results of people who choose the former, and it isn't somewhere you want to be.

Thanks for this reply. In theory, as you say, women appreciate these men, but in practice it is different. I've had plenty of examples when I've been auto-rejected just because of that. But it is not important. The reason I wrote the answer is that @Chase persistently claims that I am autistic just because some of my opinions on this matter differ from his. He made the claim that auto-rejection can serve as an indicator of earlier interest in women. I have given some examples where it cannot. I'm not saying that his claim is not true, but that there are a lot of exceptions, and after that I get the (somewhat insulting) answer that I'm autistic even though two psychologists and a psychiatrist said otherwise a long time ago...

 

[Chase]

@Whiteheart,

Yeah, I figured you'd resist it.

It's interesting you've been tested by two psychologists and a psychiatrist for autism. I've never been tested for that, would never NEED to be, and don't know many people who ever have... but I did know another guy with identical issues to yours who also had been repeatedly tested for it and found "not autistic" by psychologists, but, just like you, continued to have problems with women identical to those encountered by autistic men. Everybody I knew who met him in real life would privately tell me, "He is definitely on the autism spectrum." He always got very upset at anyone suggesting he was autistic.

I'm sorry you view my remarks as belittling. That other guy viewed them that way too. I spent a long time dancing around it with him, because I knew it was a major sore point for him, trying to help him with mechanical suggestions, but nothing worked for the guy. Eventually I figured I might as well just state it directly, but it really aggravated him.

Aside from that, I pointed out a number of explicit social and empathetic problems you are having in my response. If you want some action items, ignore the comments about autism and focus on fixing those.

Here they are again:

1. Inability to realize other people are feeling/behaving the same exact way you are
2. Sweeping uncharitable assumptions about others external to you
3. Strange theories/conclusions about the thoughts and behavior of others that don't seem to stem from anything they actually do
4. Rigid closed-mindedness about topics you're not an expert on and strong resistance to viewpoint change

You are not correctly reading the behavior of others. You are blind to what is causing others to react to you how they do, leaving yourself frustrated and stumped at the extremely frequent negative reactions you get from women when socially interacting with them.

Here's @Will_V's big point:

I'd like to ask, how then do you account for all the women who throw themselves at truly successful guys - actors, celebrities, sports players, etc? Let alone the pretty well-established concept that 80% of women go after the top 20% of men, which almost by definition means that the vast majority of women want a man who is substantially 'better' than them?

Like my key points, you ignored this point as well.

Instead, you just engage in ego defense here, ignoring all points and defending your ego. e.g.:

You tell someone who started from scratch and now probably has a much better social and material life than you

Ego defense.

only because he can't get some women who don't want him for various reasons, most often because he is better than them

Ego defense.

In your seduction programs and materials, you stated several times that the main cause of auto rejection is that a woman feels inferior to a man, and now you state some complicated theories that this is the result of some unfulfilled needs of a woman (probably complex) and now the (autistic) man is to blame that he found himself in that situation.

Ego defense, and also totally misconstruing my communication and viewing it through an inaccurate superiority/inferiority lens.

Attainability is not about 'superiority', as your attempt to define it as such quickly shows:

1. First, you auto-rejected this girl, because she is superior to you.
2. After that, she auto-rejected you, because you are superior to her.
3. You and her now exist in some kind of Schrödinger's cat quantum state of each of you being at once superior and inferior to the other.
4. This, in your mind, is apparently(?) not contradictory at all.

You do not understand auto-rejection, and are using your own redefinition of it as another tool for ego defense.

I find this post of yours to work on basic social skills as if I'm in elementary school a bit insulting. I myself read a lot of books and could write the same articles like this.

Ego defense.

I understand it is very painful to have persistent social problems you are unable to solve no matter what you try.

I understand that after a while, to protect one's ego, it becomes attractive, perhaps necessary, to withdraw into a hard webbing of defensive structures constructed to keep undermining opinions out.

I am sorry if it feels like I am "calling you out", or pointing out what you do not want pointed out.

However, this same psychological protective measures you've taken also block you from being able to solve the problems you're facing -- it traps you at the same time it protects you.

I don't know what the solution is. I have heard from guys with your set of issues that they used the site / material to turn things around to large degree, but I haven't personally witnessed it and I don't know what the procedure is for men of this neural configuration. My direct conversations with men with rigid social issues and extremely strong ego defense has always led to a null outcome, where the guy completely resisted any advice and just clammed up harder in his shell.

Perhaps you can bookmark this thread, then totally forget about it and consider me totally mistaken and wrongheaded about you for now (well, we both know you will do that anyway, right ). Then if at some time in the future you reach a point where the ego defense crumbles and you reach a breaking point, such that you begin to earnestly search for answers, and your mind becomes open, you can return here to trigger some thoughts that'll start you down a path to self-discovery, and eventual self-mastery.

Best wishes,
Chase

 

[Whiteheart]

@Whiteheart,

Yeah, I figured you'd resist it.

It's interesting you've been tested by two psychologists and a psychiatrist for autism. I've never been tested for that, would never NEED to be, and don't know many people who ever have... but I did know another guy with identical issues to yours who also had been repeatedly tested for it and found "not autistic" by psychologists, but, just like you, continued to have problems with women identical to those encountered by autistic men. Everybody I knew who met him in real life would privately tell me, "He is definitely on the autism spectrum." He always got very upset at anyone suggesting he was autistic.

I'm sorry you view my remarks as belittling. That other guy viewed them that way too. I spent a long time dancing around it with him, because I knew it was a major sore point for him, trying to help him with mechanical suggestions, but nothing worked for the guy. Eventually I figured I might as well just state it directly, but it really aggravated him.

Aside from that, I pointed out a number of explicit social and empathetic problems you are having in my response. If you want some action items, ignore the comments about autism and focus on fixing those.

Here they are again:

1. Inability to realize other people are feeling/behaving the same exact way you are
2. Sweeping uncharitable assumptions about others external to you
3. Strange theories/conclusions about the thoughts and behavior of others that don't seem to stem from anything they actually do
4. Rigid closed-mindedness about topics you're not an expert on and strong resistance to viewpoint change

You are not correctly reading the behavior of others. You are blind to what is causing others to react to you how they do, leaving yourself frustrated and stumped at the extremely frequent negative reactions you get from women when socially interacting with them.

Here's @Will_V's big point:



Like my key points, you ignored this point as well.

Instead, you just engage in ego defense here, ignoring all points and defending your ego. e.g.:



Ego defense.



Ego defense.



Ego defense, and also totally misconstruing my communication and viewing it through an inaccurate superiority/inferiority lens.

Attainability is not about 'superiority', as your attempt to define it as such quickly shows:

1. First, you auto-rejected this girl, because she is superior to you.
2. After that, she auto-rejected you, because you are superior to her.
3. You and her now exist in some kind of Schrödinger's cat quantum state of each of you being at once superior and inferior to the other.
4. This, in your mind, is apparently(?) not contradictory at all.

You do not understand auto-rejection, and are using your own redefinition of it as another tool for ego defense.



Ego defense.

I understand it is very painful to have persistent social problems you are unable to solve no matter what you try.

I understand that after a while, to protect one's ego, it becomes attractive, perhaps necessary, to withdraw into a hard webbing of defensive structures constructed to keep undermining opinions out.

I am sorry if it feels like I am "calling you out", or pointing out what you do not want pointed out.

However, this same psychological protective measures you've taken also block you from being able to solve the problems you're facing -- it traps you at the same time it protects you.

I don't know what the solution is. I have heard from guys with your set of issues that they used the site / material to turn things around to large degree, but I haven't personally witnessed it and I don't know what the procedure is for men of this neural configuration. My direct conversations with men with rigid social issues and extremely strong ego defense has always led to a null outcome, where the guy completely resisted any advice and just clammed up harder in his shell.

Perhaps you can bookmark this thread, then totally forget about it and consider me totally mistaken and wrongheaded about you for now (well, we both know you will do that anyway, right ). Then if at some time in the future you reach a point where the ego defense crumbles and you reach a breaking point, such that you begin to earnestly search for answers, and your mind becomes open, you can return here to trigger some thoughts that'll start you down a path to self-discovery, and eventual self-mastery.

Best wishes,
Chase

@Chase
Thanks for this answer. I feel better now. Online communication has limitations and the question is how objectively someone can look at the problem and reliably assess the personality. I didn't say that I always get exclusively negative reactions from women, but rather discussed the causes of auto-rejection and its role in determining the potential interest of women. That's what most of this post is about. There is also a significant part of women who are neutral and those with whom I have a solid connection and some level of sexual tension, those with whom I have strong sexual tension, etc. and yet they avoid one on one compliance (dates) to save their lives.

I don't have so many problems with my ego, I've been through a lot in my life, my denial is more a consequence when I know that someone doesn't know me and due to lack of information does not make completely correct conclusions about me. Of course, I always respect your opinion, even when sometimes I don't agree with it, and that's the reason I'm contacting you. I will remember this thread and come back to it and you again when I think about myself and have more new experiences. If you haven't already, please check out the new post by @raiden, where @Warped Mindless writes about a guy called Greg... That's kind of my background. I'm not saying that we play a perfect game, but that women are not forgiving of any mistakes we make in the process. I won't burden you with this post anymore, as a good student I have to read everything again and think about what you wrote to me.

Best wishes,
Whiteheart

 

[killerman]

But for the past 12 years, I've tried to take responsibility for my own success with women. This led to the point where I tried various strategies to win them over while they could behave as they wanted towards me (mostly like bitches or attention whores). I have changed my mindset and I no longer experience women as an audience or judges who will evaluate me and weigh whether I am attractive enough for them, while it is enough for them to exist and do nothing. Thanks for advices anyway.

Right, I'm going to have to give my opinion on this.

First of all you're clearly very bitter and resentful. This is not good. I know this sounds cliche but you only live once. Do you really want to live this life bitter and angry and full of rage? It isn't good. We have one go at this then we're gone. (unless we get anti aging tech in the future but let's leave that out for now). We have one go at this. In my opinion if getting hot, attractive women is so important and it clearly is for you (as it is for me) then you need to do EVERYTHING you can to attract these women. Regret and rage in later years is never good. So you need to go all out in this. So the question is did you REALLY do everything you could? I know there are people on this site who think looks are overrated but trust me they're important. They're not the only factor, game is important but it's HUGE. In fact what women care about is the WHOLE package. It's game, it's money, status, how you dress, style, grooming, mindset but it's also looks. You say you tried everything over the last 12 years. Did you hit the gym 5 times a week like a maniac? Did you get 16-18 inch arms and 8-10% bodyfat, lean and chiselled? Did you optimise your grooming and fashion? Because trust me these things matter. A lot. Used to be 19-20%. body fat last few years, but now I'm cutting, tracked my bodyfat percentage this morning and I've finally hit 14% and in the last 2 weeks in the gym i've had more women smile, flirt and give me solid extended eye contact than before. A lot more. When I was at 19-20%, not so much. Can't wait to see what results I'll get when I finally get back to 10%, then 9%, 8%, especially as I'm coming off having built 3.5 years worth of solid muscle mass and I'm more muscular than before. These things matter. Of course it's not all looks, you need good game and to be socially savvy but looks and appearance are huge and most women will write you off if you look like ****. So the question is did you do any of these things?

As for people saying he's autistic, I don't think it matters that much, i've got asperger's, (very slightly but i'm definitely on the spectrum) but it hasn't stopped me from getting many make outs, dates, lays and girlfriends with attractive women so it's really not that big of a deal if you have it. Anyway having asperger's is f**king awesome, it means you get obsessed, focused and passionate about your interests like a madman which results in you excelling and succeeding in those areas, which absolutely helps you with women as women like a man who's competent and successful. it gives you drive and makes you a passionate person which women find sexy.

 

[leadingbealwaysido]

Bro, I hear you @Whiteheart !
The dating game today is a nightmare.

I do not think you are autistic either. And thank you for being here and reading this kind of stuff!

And i was accused of the same things... With my journey i needed to stop game completly and come back to my true priorties and life purpose. I also did some inner work ie. releasing emotional baggage, trauma healing etc. What happened then was that i went from a guy that a girl would not even look at to a guy that girls actually found interest in. Like a lot of the girls at the club and street was staring at me it was surreal in the beginning.

So that is just me sharing what worked for me. Maybe there is something for you there too.

 

[killerman]

Bro, I hear you @Whiteheart !
The dating game today is a nightmare.

I do not think you are autistic either. And thank you for being here and reading this kind of stuff!

And i was accused of the same things... With my journey i needed to stop game completly and come back to my true priorties and life purpose. I also did some inner work ie. releasing emotional baggage, trauma healing etc. What happened then was that i went from a guy that a girl would not even look at to a guy that girls actually found interest in. Like a lot of the girls at the club and street was staring at me it was surreal in the beginning.

So that is just me sharing what worked for me. Maybe there is something for you there too.

What kind of inner healing did you do? I know I've got some trauma and baggage which has made me pretty closed off. Was thinking of going to see a psychotherapist. I've really got some serious shit to sort out.

 

[leadingbealwaysido]

What kind of inner healing did you do? I know I've got some trauma and baggage which has made me pretty closed off. Was thinking of going to see a psychotherapist. I've really got some serious shit to sort out.

Psychotherapy does not work... At best it is a very slow and expensive process.

Actually I started working profesionally in this field because I saw how it changed my life and started helping a lot of people with emotional baggage that did not get any results from psychotherpy.

So I have dived in deep in this stuff and know a lot of what is out there. Spent countless hours and probably close to 100 000 dollars in different courses and systems - Unfortounantly there is a lot of bad methods out there, not really helping you transform the problem behind the problem.
I have started a youtube channel on this "life purpose coach sindre jakobsen."

What I have got most results with is the demartini method you can start to read some of the books from John Demartini, or seek out a demartini facilitator to help you, there are even over 500 psychotherapist that have starting to use the demartini method instead of their psychotherapy methods. Also somatic trauma healing based processes I have found to be good. Also EMDR can be very good for connecting with emotions, if that is a problem you have.

All the best on your healing journey!