Is LJBF end of game?

[Calibration]

I cold approached this super cute chic in a park last Saturday complimenting her smile and had a long chat of nearly 1 hour. I tried to insta date but she was not compliant and she offered me her number instead saying she'll definitely meet again. She also asked me, what are you taking my number for? I said "to arrange a date". I followed the standard texting model and this is how it looks. She's a chiropractor and the massage is in reference to that

Is there a way to salvage?

https://imgur.com/a/Wcdx2aO

 

[Rakehell]

She’s not “dating” doesn’t mean she’s not fucking. You could’ve reframed it like “bold of you to assume we’re friends already ”

I think she was probing to see if you were one of those guy’s who try and jump into a courtship already sold on dating as in bf/gf.

I doubt it’s salvageable after you blatantly said why you were trying to meet, you gave up alot of power, but maybe someone else could prove me wrong.

 

[mist]

In general, it depends.

Imo depending on your skills and current disposition whatever you decide is worthwhile. As long as you learn from it...who cares?

If your issue is oneitis...then move on as that's what you need to learn most right now.

If you want to learn flipping sets that you mess up with or are just at a disposition needing flipping...set a time limit for how long you'll work on learning about flipping sets and trying to flip her WHILE being sure to meet other women and go forth.

If you want to learn how to bounce through circles or get access to her friends and social life...Go on with yo bad self.

Whatever you are aiming to learn and your sticking point at the moment heed that.

(Some gamers use LJBF to there benefit. They say is first . )

Now...In your specific situation.

You might think you are the one-up for Showing up that "Bitch! I don't make friendly with women I want to fuck. I'm alpha af you should be begging for my seed." Which is a completely necessary step for guys who have for a long time been the, overused but apt term, "A Nice Guy" but you are actually one down.

She was cordial... your text comes off butthurt and posturing. Especially after your use of "date".... do yourself a favor and scrap the word. Please. It's horrible. Say hangout, see eachother, hell even meet as friends (might be confusing now, but you'll get it one day) is better.

This may come off as a frame grab, but the funny thing about frames is that they aren't all that solid from most people. In a few hours you could've had her drooling on your cock...as a friend of course...couple weeks or months asking you if you'd like to finally be official...friends of course...always trying to get more time with you...as friends.

Women also tend to tell you what they are looking for as Sunking was saying. She was desiring something casual, which in the beginning is completely cool. You can ramp things up or stagnate things as you monitor and influence her investment in you.

You backed yourself into a wall with her. Your reply was curt, you both take a long time to reply, you call her attractive and reject her friendship (Which is a bad mix. Especially as a response), you were reactive, you have shown much more interest than her... imo this set is a crapshoot.

Experiment however you want. Your attainability is low.

1. Maybe you could play off the tone of your text as a joke and say text translates poorly thread cut with something like sunkings...ask if she was offended. Then give her a call if possible rebuild good emotions ask her to HANG OUT not a date.(Drop the word from your vocabulary please. please. please.) AKA Gaslight her haha.

2. Maybe you could apologize and ask if she was offended. Say you're still learning social skills and are down to be her friend. Qualify her. (WORSE OPTION imo but who gives af haha. You never know. Simp game works once in a blue moon...rarely.)

3. Send a dick pic.

Anyway do whatever you want and need at your skill level and current disposition.

I'd suggest you read up on asshole/nice guy articles and also learn about attainability/autorejection. It'd help you tons.

Ciao

 

[Calibration]

She was cordial... your text comes off butthurt and posturing. Especially after your use of "date".... do yourself a favor and scrap the word. Please. It's horrible. Say hangout, see eachother, hell even meet as friends (might be confusing now, but you'll get it one day) is better.

Only recently I started using the word "date" since some girls in the past thought I was not sure what I wanted or they'd come out and thought it was a friendly catch-up when I tried to escalate, they'd freakout

 

[Calibration]

She’s not “dating” doesn’t mean she’s not fucking. You could’ve reframed it like “bold of you to assume we’re friends already ”

I didn't think of it in this direction at all :/

 

[Will_V]

I cold approached this super cute chic in a park last Saturday complimenting her smile and had a long chat of nearly 1 hour. I tried to insta date but she was not compliant and she offered me her number instead saying she'll definitely meet again. She also asked me, what are you taking my number for? I said "to arrange a date". I followed the standard texting model and this is how it looks. She's a chiropractor and the massage is in reference to that

Is there a way to salvage?

https://imgur.com/a/Wcdx2aO

A number of things here:
1. When she asked you why you were taking her number, avoid saying the word 'date'. Dates are for boring needy people (she's had enough of those already), you are merely two attractive people getting to know each other. I like to say 'what do you say we catch up sometime and continue this conversation?' With a seductive smile.

2. Offering a massage to a fairly non compliant girl with little rapport. Girls don't generally get massages from random guys. It's a fairly strong implication that you want to fuck. You could easily replace it with 'oh looks like the chiro needs to relax and unwind' which is slightly teasing, open ended and makes her think about relaxing unwinding things.

3. Like @SunKing said she tested you a little and you let the cat completely out the bag. That was a good time to sense danger, pull back and reframe. Personally I would simply leave her on read for a day or two and then just go 'I understand, sometimes we need to take a break from the dating grind and spend time with people we can just enjoy being ourselves with.' Reframed and reignited.

4. 'Trying to look good for our date' is a bit weak and shows investment in the wrong area. You're not meeting her to impress her with your appearance (do you even know if she likes muscles?) You're meeting her to get to know her.

I don't know about salvaging but might as well try. I'd probably just say 'hey sorry for being grumpy, really enjoyed our conversation (insert validation of some non sexual characteristic you liked about her, preferably one she already knows you like), would love to meet up and get to know you more, but I totally understand if you're not up for it! Have a wonderful day '

 

[Calibration]

A number of things here:
1. When she asked you why you were taking her number, avoid saying the word 'date'. Dates are for boring needy people (she's had enough of those already), you are merely two attractive people getting to know each other. I like to say 'what do you say we catch up sometime and continue this conversation?' With a seductive smile.

2. Offering a massage to a fairly non compliant girl with little rapport. Girls don't generally get massages from random guys. It's a fairly strong implication that you want to fuck. You could easily replace it with 'oh looks like the chiro needs to relax and unwind' which is slightly teasing, open ended and makes her think about relaxing unwinding things.

3. Like @SunKing said she tested you a little and you let the cat completely out the bag. That was a good time to sense danger, pull back and reframe. Personally I would simply leave her on read for a day or two and then just go 'I understand, sometimes we need to take a break from the dating grind and spend time with people we can just enjoy being ourselves with.' Reframed and reignited.

4. 'Trying to look good for our date' is a bit weak and shows investment in the wrong area. You're not meeting her to impress her with your appearance (do you even know if she likes muscles?) You're meeting her to get to know her.

I don't know about salvaging but might as well try. I'd probably just say 'hey sorry for being grumpy, really enjoyed our conversation (insert validation of some non sexual characteristic you liked about her, preferably one she already knows you like), would love to meet up and get to know you more, but I totally understand if you're not up for it! Have a wonderful day '

I hear what you guys are saying.. but hypothetically, had I agreed to meet platonically and then tried escalating, wouldn't it have come across as creepy and needy?

Also, wouldn't agreeing to her frame come across as giving into her frame or supplicating?

I posted another thread a short while ago regarding this question. Anyway, I approached her in the park, how can I frame it as her chasing me?

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

@Shawn dude! @SunKing @Mist22 and @Will_V all gave great advice and covered everything. Your messaging created issues. I touched on some of this in your other thread.

The goal is to get her out, once she's out you can change her emotions (not her mind). The buying temperature wasn't high enough but you can increase this by being cool when you're out. Escalate in a calibrated way and this won't be needy or creepy. Get it wrong and it will be, but it gets you in field to get experience.

You're not agreeing to her frame, you're playing along to simple terms. The terms will later be negotiated. You've set resistance by trying to change the frame to drastically and your needy behaviour isn't attractive. You see the mood change in her text.

You approached her because you're a dude, you go for what you want and lead. This isn't chasing! Good luck waiting for her to approach you. You were curious about her, she still has to win you over. You've qualified her already, you'd need to hard reset this one if you want to persist for reference points but you've gave yourself an uphill battle from your previous messages.

Setting her as the chaser could have been done before your horrible message or after if you managed to meet up. You can't flip this text set that she's chasing, you need to reset.

 

[Calibration]

Thanks. That was helpful. Yeah, I fucked it up with my texts; I think they were inappropriate both in terms of timing and context. Whatever everyone told makes total sense when used at the right time and context.

I think I'll pass this one but just out of curiosity and for not fucking up in future:

You've qualified her already, you'd need to hard reset this one if you want to persist for reference points

How can I hard reset?

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

@Shawn dude! A hard reset is usually much better in person as you have more control than words on a screen and has a better chance of success the more interest she has. There's good articles on overcoming past bad precedent and the auto rejection turn around. This is not an auto rejection for you to turn around but the principles behind how it works can help.

A hard reset is starting again, but on a better note. Don't mention what's happened, don't acknowledge it, it doesn't exist. A good value message, a "I just seen this that reminded me of you" to provide a reason for reaching out or a casual throw away to reset the entire frame. If you use messaging apps as WhatsApp or snap a good photo or meme is suitable. Photos and memes work better for girls under 28, over this it's hit or miss - I use text messaging so I don't typically have this option at my disposal but it's very valid if it suits your personality/style.

Ironically for this situation, you're better off steering into her message. If too much time passes you haven't built up the investment and you'll be a random dude. Where I'd advocate leaving space before a hard reset here time is more important, you'll have low odds on a traditional hard reset.

Replying with something like: "that's cool, you seem kinda fun and I like making friends, we should grab a drink some time"

Will make you seem unreactive, you're cool and putting her at ease and quickly moving on from her message that really throws you under the bus. Yes you're accepting her offer and doing this on a lower point than you'd ideally want but the alternative is to soften the impact, get back onto a high point and then seed a meet which is a lot of effort.

The meet has already been seeded, she's done a takeaway which makes you look socially inept by causing this reaction and now you look socially calibrated. You're not explicitly qualifying her, you're giving her chance to prove she's cool

 

[Calibration]

I texted her again yesterday morning based on what some of you guys had suggested and after a long time, she texted back:

https://imgur.com/a/0GbXGX5

I didn't want to fuck it up again and thought I'll check with you guys, what would be a good response to it

P.S: I still feel a lot of dissonance to go out with her when she thinks it's platonic while I'd be escalating. Wonder what's a good mindset to adopt when meeting her?

@Mist22, @SunKing, @Will_V, @Fluxcapacitor

 

[mist]

I texted her again yesterday morning based on what some of you guys had suggested and after a long time, she texted back:

https://imgur.com/a/0GbXGX5

I didn't want to fuck it up again and thought I'll check with you guys, what would be a good response to it

P.S: I still feel a lot of dissonance to go out with her when she thinks it's platonic while I'd be escalating. Wonder what's a good mindset to adopt when meeting her?

@Mist22, @SunKing, @Will_V, @Fluxcapacitor

First off let's go bro! Way to get out of your way and experiment. Looks like it's paying off and what a fucking rollercoaster haha.

I also like the use of emojis in this case.

My response is targeted towards your dissonance and big picture shit.

You don't need to read this all now. Maybe choose one of the points and start there. In any order imo and try to digest that sense this is aimed at your dissonance. Try to see how these things relate to your interactions with women and your mindset/behaviors.

1. It's a game to be played my friend.

Chill out a bit. Learn the game, play the game, find time to decompress off the game...find the fun in the game.

A. https://www.skilledseducer.com/thre...art-1-should-you-go-direct-or-indirect.25522/

B. https://www.skilledseducer.com/thre...d-you-go-direct-or-indirect.25522/post-142551

C. https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/your-personality-is-just-a-path-of-least-resistance.22894/

D. https://www.girlschase.com/content/why-never-take-what-women-say-face-value

E. https://www.girlschase.com/content/you-re-not-special-and-neither-she

F. https://www.girlschase.com/content/game-never-ends

G. https://www.girlschase.com/content/its-all-game

2. Women are not men and men are not women.

There are human similarities, but there are foundational differences that manifest in how we interact with the world and its interaction with us.

When a woman does or says something of course look for the human similarity, then look for the female meaning, action, and logic.

There is a reason women report falling for guys they didn't initially like whereas guys are not as prone to.

Let's just be friends from a woman is different from a man. You frankly don't actually know if it's platonic. You're reading her like she is a male.

Stop giving female's thoughts, actions, and interactions with you a Male voice. She isn't thinking like you...you can somewhat get her to, but that first takes understanding her.

This is a critical flaw in the redpill, Incel, gymcel, lookmaxing community is denial and anger about this point.

A. https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-much-do-you-actually-need-know-about-girls-get-them

B. https://www.girlschase.com/content/beauty-greatness-and-goodness-female-moral-nature

C. https://www.girlschase.com/article/learning-love-women

3. Skill based/ mastery oriented learning is the highest probability of achieving your goal.

Easy to burnout when you are loss in ego.

Easy to miss details when you are overly invested in outcomes.

Vice versa.

They are both important as a flaw in going skill based is that you can begin to get myopic and waste time, so ego, outcome, and skill based learning should be used to balance and manage eachother.

Your ego is why you are striving, the outcome is your feedback, the skill based approach is your BIG picture.

A. https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/do-you-believe-in-this-stuff.21829/post-106806

B. https://www.girlschase.com/content/confused-about-pickup-and-seduction-article-will-change

C. https://www.girlschase.com/content/dealing-failure-important-learning-tool

Now on actually texting her back

Gonna be honest and say I didn't expect you to recover haha. So I didn't think much further ahead then "Get her back to a highpoint and avoid auto rejection."

Imo @Fluxcapacitor has already given you the furthest looking ahead comment. Follow his advice on preceding with her... maybe. Not sure if you are at 0 though... there's still momentum + you've made your originally HORRIBLE message a good thing lmao (Gaslighters unite).

I'd say in my still experimenting brain get some rapport then close. Either through a call, text back and forth, quick meme picture or "I ran into something someone who reminded me of you because XYZ trait/physical appearance/vibe.

My instinct is saying start closing things out and getting a feel for her availability.

It's Friday though... perhaps even go out to a nearby bar or place and take a picture of what you're doing "Invite her there" you're already out so it's valuable. I got that from @DonGately . (Where is that guy? Hope he's well.)

But yeah I'm in uncharted territory.

Fluxcapacitor posts are the ones I'd follow in this case though. His has pointers and strategy as well as suggestions of topics to look into.

Final thoughts

Don't you love when you get further than you expected to get haha ? I mean you imagined it sure, but now that you're there your brain still can't quite grasp it...

Now imagine you would've left it where you did originally instead of experimenting and stepping out of your ego for a minute? You would've grasped it sure, but would that have been as exciting as this?

Now imagine what will happen when you take this approach in general...the possibilities, stories, adventures, and of course hot women that'll be there.

All because you don't play it so safe. You seek the big picture.

Props man. Wish I had more practical shiz like Flux, but it'll come with time also I'm more inclined not to doubt you again.

Peace.

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

@Shawn dude! Your text wasn't great but it got you in a better position. Firstly you took about 12 hours to respond to her, a quicker response from you would have prompted a quicker response than 8 hours ish. I don't advocate counting the hours or even paying attention at all, it's a really childish game and if you're genuinely busy you really wouldn't notice. She still replied, and faster than you if we're really getting into this.

The investment of your text was ten times more than hers, you overcooked it. The second line about understanding texts was unnecessary and to logical, your emphasis on "date" also ruined the seed, this should have been dropped.

The humour for missing the compliment works but you've just highlighted your previous qualifier... though the cocky funny nature somewhat makes up for it so not all that bad, you got a reply from it.

The key issue is she ignored the seeded meet and focused on being acquaintances. You need to build to a high point before asking again or you'll look clueless. You need rapport and comfort so you need to take a step back and ironically being a witty conversation dude. Use this as a starting point and ask her out within 5 messages. That's your goal to work towards if you're going to persist with this set.

You'll want a traditional follow up message here, share some information and/or ask for some, this is a compliance test.

"Haha acquaintances it is! Hope you've had a good day, I've been busy with work so going out with the dudes tonight. Work hard play hard right? What trouble are you causing this weekend?"

It's lighthearted, shows consideration, shares new information, plays to your working hard joke (call back humour) and asks something about her in a playful way. You're keeping the set open in a social manner.

 

[Calibration]

First off let's go bro! Way to get out of your way and experiment. Looks like it's paying off and what a fucking rollercoaster haha.

I also like the use of emojis in this case.

My response is targeted towards your dissonance and big picture shit.

You don't need to read this all now. Maybe choose one of the points and start there. In any order imo and try to digest that sense this is aimed at your dissonance. Try to see how these things relate to your interactions with women and your mindset/behaviors.

1. It's a game to be played my friend.

Chill out a bit. Learn the game, play the game, find time to decompress off the game...find the fun in the game.

A. https://www.skilledseducer.com/thre...art-1-should-you-go-direct-or-indirect.25522/

B. https://www.skilledseducer.com/thre...d-you-go-direct-or-indirect.25522/post-142551

C. https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/your-personality-is-just-a-path-of-least-resistance.22894/

D. https://www.girlschase.com/content/why-never-take-what-women-say-face-value

E. https://www.girlschase.com/content/you-re-not-special-and-neither-she

F. https://www.girlschase.com/content/game-never-ends

G. https://www.girlschase.com/content/its-all-game

2. Women are not men and men are not women.

There are human similarities, but there are foundational differences that manifest in how we interact with the world and its interaction with us.

When a woman does or says something of course look for the human similarity, then look for the female meaning, action, and logic.

There is a reason women report falling for guys they didn't initially like whereas guys are not as prone to.

Let's just be friends from a woman is different from a man. You frankly don't actually know if it's platonic. You're reading her like she is a male.

Stop giving female's thoughts, actions, and interactions with you a Male voice. She isn't thinking like you...you can somewhat get her to, but that first takes understanding her.

This is a critical flaw in the redpill, Incel, gymcel, lookmaxing community is denial and anger about this point.

A. https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-much-do-you-actually-need-know-about-girls-get-them

B. https://www.girlschase.com/content/beauty-greatness-and-goodness-female-moral-nature

C. https://www.girlschase.com/article/learning-love-women

3. Skill based/ mastery oriented learning is the highest probability of achieving your goal.

Easy to burnout when you are loss in ego.

Easy to miss details when you are overly invested in outcomes.

Vice versa.

They are both important as a flaw in going skill based is that you can begin to get myopic and waste time, so ego, outcome, and skill based learning should be used to balance and manage eachother.

Your ego is why you are striving, the outcome is your feedback, the skill based approach is your BIG picture.

A. https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/do-you-believe-in-this-stuff.21829/post-106806

B. https://www.girlschase.com/content/confused-about-pickup-and-seduction-article-will-change

C. https://www.girlschase.com/content/dealing-failure-important-learning-tool

Now on actually texting her back

Gonna be honest and say I didn't expect you to recover haha. So I didn't think much further ahead then "Get her back to a highpoint and avoid auto rejection."

Imo @Fluxcapacitor has already given you the furthest looking ahead comment. Follow his advice on preceding with her... maybe. Not sure if you are at 0 though... there's still momentum + you've made your originally HORRIBLE message a good thing lmao (Gaslighters unite).

I'd say in my still experimenting brain get some rapport then close. Either through a call, text back and forth, quick meme picture or "I ran into something someone who reminded me of you because XYZ trait/physical appearance/vibe.

My instinct is saying start closing things out and getting a feel for her availability.

It's Friday though... perhaps even go out to a nearby bar or place and take a picture of what you're doing "Invite her there" you're already out so it's valuable. I got that from @DonGately . (Where is that guy? Hope he's well.)

But yeah I'm in uncharted territory.

Fluxcapacitor posts are the ones I'd follow in this case though. His has pointers and strategy as well as suggestions of topics to look into.

Final thoughts

Don't you love when you get further than you expected to get haha ? I mean you imagined it sure, but now that you're there your brain still can't quite grasp it...

Now imagine you would've left it where you did originally instead of experimenting and stepping out of your ego for a minute? You would've grasped it sure, but would that have been as exciting as this?

Now imagine what will happen when you take this approach in general...the possibilities, stories, adventures, and of course hot women that'll be there.

All because you don't play it so safe. You seek the big picture.

Props man. Wish I had more practical shiz like Flux, but it'll come with time also I'm more inclined not to doubt you again.

Peace.

I need all of that knowledge before the date to not feel dissonance, thanks for those links.. haha.. will take a look into them soon!

 

[Calibration]

@Shawn dude! Your text wasn't great but it got you in a better position. Firstly you took about 12 hours to respond to her, a quicker response from you would have prompted a quicker response than 8 hours ish. I don't advocate counting the hours or even paying attention at all, it's a really childish game and if you're genuinely busy you really wouldn't notice. She still replied, and faster than you if we're really getting into this.

I always fuck it up when I reply in a short time. So, I think of a lot of possibilities and then reply, ending up taking a lot of time to respond (not to say I don't fuck it up when I take longer haha)

The investment of your text was ten times more than hers, you overcooked it. The second line about understanding texts was unnecessary and to logical,

Hmm.. ya, makes sense

your emphasis on "date" also ruined the seed, this should have been dropped.

I also thought the same after I hit send, double quotes were unnecessary (facepalm)

The key issue is she ignored the seeded meet and focused on being acquaintances.

Yes! When I saw her reply I saw that she totally ignored my seeded meet. She's just 20 or 21 and I can't believe she's so smart in playing the game

You need to build to a high point before asking again or you'll look clueless. You need rapport and comfort so you need to take a step back and ironically being a witty conversation dude. Use this as a starting point and ask her out within 5 messages. That's your goal to work towards if you're going to persist with this set.

You'll want a traditional follow up message here, share some information and/or ask for some, this is a compliance test.

"Haha acquaintances it is! Hope you've had a good day, I've been busy with work so going out with the dudes tonight. Work hard play hard right? What trouble are you causing this weekend?"

Thanks. Good you sent this. I was going to soft-close (face-palm) and it'd have definitely come across as clueless. Its been a week now already since I met her and thought I should go for the close, else as more time passes she'll lose interest

 

[Tim Iron]

This is the main reason why I don't do back and forth texting ("text game"). I push to meet up casually for like 5 - 10 minutes near her place and then move things back to my place.

 

[Rakehell]

@Shawn its safe to say the girl likes you. You’re better off following Flux’s advice because too much input will just over complicate it.

On any other circumstance I would’ve suggested getting her on the phone instead of going for the meet immediately. Easier to gage her temperature, and to create a high note/build more comfort.

 

[Calibration]

@Shawn its safe to say the girl likes you. You’re better off following Flux’s advice because too much input will just over complicate it.

On any other circumstance I would’ve suggested getting her on the phone instead of going for the meet immediately. Easier to gage her temperature, and to create a high note/build more comfort.

One of my main sticking points is texting. All my threads on this forum are related mostly to texting. They'll be into me in person and I fuck it up every time with texting. My conversation doesn't go beyond 4-5 texts before I fuck it up haha. Ones that I get are the ones who I insta date and they don't really care about my texts later. So, texting is something I want to learn at any cost. I've lost count of girls I've lost due to bad texting. I'm taking this as an opportunity to learn texting more than anything. I don't like numbering a girl but she's super super cute and would definitely want to fuck her. However this time I want to see how far I can go with my texting and if she comes out to meet based on my texting, that's a win

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

I always fuck it up when I reply in a short time. So, I think of a lot of possibilities and then reply, ending up taking a lot of time to respond (not to say I don't fuck it up when I take longer haha)

Hmm.. ya, makes sense

I also thought the same after I hit send, double quotes were unnecessary (facepalm)

Yes! When I saw her reply I saw that she totally ignored my seeded meet. She's just 20 or 21 and I can't believe she's so smart in playing the game

Thanks. Good you sent this. I was going to soft-close (face-palm) and it'd have definitely come across as clueless. Its been a week now already since I met her and thought I should go for the close, else as more time passes she'll lose interest

@Shawn dude! The thing about thinking of a lot of possibilities and taking your time to reply to make the right choice is text paralysis. I'd actually say this is a good thing at times when you're starting out, each of your text options will focus on different aspects and lead the conversation differently. Pick the option that's most beneficial. If you don't know, you've got to lead so make your choice. The luxury of text is you can craft a response, in person you're just going to react so make the most of it.

I meet a lot of girls 18 - 23 and they're all intuitively good with this. Ironically I've got a girl in rotation who's 19 and I can see she's learned things from me the same way we pick things up from them.

This and a further reply of yours in this thread reveals a different issue with your texting. You should always try to arrange a meet within 5 messages, it might take a few more but that's cool. If you constantly mess up within this frame your texts aren't progressing to the goal. It seems like you're taking your eyes off the prize, this is also why we move fast, the longer you wait the more chance of a mistake.

From my experience I find if you can't meet up with them within a week the odds drop significantly. It's not impossible but it becomes more unlikely. In this example you rushed the ask at the end and if it's taken you a week to get to this point she's possibly changed her mind. She'd have thought you were hot and cool when first giving you her number and then cooled off the idea.

As for text game, there's different styles and I think it's best to be well rounded. There's an article on the main site with the 14 text messages you'll need which provides a great blueprint. I think it's called 14 simple ways to text a girl. I'd recommend all the text articles, though some are a little outdated now and use @Skills text guide on the forum. These should cover everything and the boards are great for asking questions

 

[Calibration]

@Shawn dude! The thing about thinking of a lot of possibilities and taking your time to reply to make the right choice is text paralysis. I'd actually say this is a good thing at times when you're starting out, each of your text options will focus on different aspects and lead the conversation differently. Pick the option that's most beneficial. If you don't know, you've got to lead so make your choice. The luxury of text is you can craft a response, in person you're just going to react so make the most of it.

I'm guilty of taking a long time to respond but if you compare the times, I'm taking less than half of the time she's taking. I had even asked this question when she was taking a long time to respond on a different thread:
Thread 'How do I move the interaction towards the date over text if the girl takes forever to reply?'
https://www.skilledseducer.com/thre...ext-if-the-girl-takes-forever-to-reply.25989/
For the response that you suggested yesterday, I haven't heard from her and it's more than a day now. Her first response was after 2 days. I was trying to bring this time down until I fucked it up in one of the texts that you guys know and she took a long time to respond to that, taking 2 days to respond. So this is how it added to a week now. I'm assuming it's a lost cause with this set and I should just move on

I meet a lot of girls 18 - 23 and they're all intuitively good with this. Ironically I've got a girl in rotation who's 19 and I can see she's learned things from me the same way we pick things up from them.

They have better opportunities to learn unfortunately

This and a further reply of yours in this thread reveals a different issue with your texting. You should always try to arrange a meet within 5 messages, it might take a few more but that's cool. If you constantly mess up within this frame your texts aren't progressing to the goal. It seems like you're taking your eyes off the prize, this is also why we move fast, the longer you wait the more chance of a mistake.

I fail to see where the girl is at causing me to make mistakes. It's hard to be intuitive when I can't see her body language :/
I've asked many questions relating to texting on this forum and have learnt a lot but still I feel it's a mine-field
With this set, she was into me in person, text related to gym was with the assumption that she's excited to meet me when she sent high-five emoji thinking she's invested but I was wrong. I didn't think that massage can refer to sex which was clearly a blunder and I also didn't think her LJBF doesn't mean she doesn't want to fuck

From my experience I find if you can't meet up with them within a week the odds drop significantly. It's not impossible but it becomes more unlikely. In this example you rushed the ask at the end and if it's taken you a week to get to this point she's possibly changed her mind. She'd have thought you were hot and cool when first giving you her number and then cooled off the idea.

Ya, I think I should just move on

As for text game, there's different styles and I think it's best to be well rounded. There's an article on the main site with the 14 text messages you'll need which provides a great blueprint. I think it's called 14 simple ways to text a girl. I'd recommend all the text articles, though some are a little outdated now and use @Skills text guide on the forum. These should cover everything and the boards are great for asking questions

Yep, I was religiously following the 14 ways of texting article until I realised that method works when she's invested more than me and it's not the case most of the times. So I'm following Skills' method open > banter > soft-close > hard-close.