Is Marriage Worth It?

[TomInHo]

I’ve been doing some thinking about endgame and marriage keeps coming up

I don’t see the point in forever marriage but think it could be useful depending on the person’s goals

Yet when I look around, I don’t see a lot of marriages that are extremely happy. Hear that it’s a lot of work and sacrifice. And unless you want to raise a family, I just don’t see the point

Because when I’ve spoken to couples married for over 20 years they all tell me it had its ups and downs. Or tell me some BS that it’s not about romance it’s about family and servitude... like wtf

What if I don’t give a damn about having kids? I also know couples that are childless that still tell me about the sacrifice of marriage

Am I missing something here?

Lets not even get into the topic of fidelity on both the man and woman’s side

So why would I want to work hard and stay with a woman when I can replace her if drama and dissatisfaction get too out of control

Thoughts?

 

[topcat]

Funny you mention this as i’m back in my hometown town for the holidays. A lot of my old buddies are married and settled, some with kids, or at least on that path.

I’ve been asking them about their experiences as married men and what their experiences of long term relationships have been like, and to sum it up - it’s a slog. It seems they draw pleasure from the toil and hopes of a better future for their children. It all seems to be work and managing their woman (helping her manage her emotional state, teaching her to communicate correctly, teaching her to cooperate and learning to do these things yourself) and children. Everything to maintain the household, pay the bills and keep the woman and children happy and comfortable, whilst keeping your personal hobbies and working away from home to maintain sanity.

It primarily seems to be for the children, to appear a normal member of society, have the support of one’s community (extended family) and provide the same to them and avoid loneliness.

Many need security, companionship and purpose, things to work towards and the esteem of one’s community. Family and marriage approximately provide this for the grand majority.

Is it for me? not right nowww. Will it ever be? who knows..

 

[Skills]

Going to a bar an asking people is no drinking alcohol worth it... People got a do the path they want to follow... I stop long time ago trying to impose my lifestyle on other people...

 

[TomInHo]

Funny you mention this as i’m back in my hometown town for the holidays. A lot of my old buddies are married and settled, some with kids, or at least on that path.

I’ve been asking them about their experiences as married men and what their experiences of long term relationships have been like, and to sum it up - it’s a slog. It seems they draw pleasure from the toil and hopes of a better future for their children. It all seems to be work and managing their woman (helping her manage her emotional state, teaching her to communicate correctly, teaching her to cooperate and learning to do these things yourself) and children. Everything to maintain the household, pay the bills and keep the woman and children happy and comfortable, whilst keeping your personal hobbies and working away from home to maintain sanity.

It primarily seems to be for the children, to appear a normal member of society, have the support of one’s community (extended family) and provide the same to them and avoid loneliness.

Many need security, companionship and purpose, things to work towards and the esteem of one’s community. Family and marriage approximately provide this for the grand majority.

Is it for me? not right nowww. Will it ever be? who knows..

So I guess your experience matched mine. It’s mostly about servitude, social acceptance and grinding things out

 

[TomInHo]

Going to a bar an asking people is no drinking alcohol worth it... People got a do the path they want to follow... I stop long time ago trying to impose my lifestyle on other people...

I agree. It’s not a good look to impose your views on others but ironically a lot of those married people do that to me

“Tominho, when are you going to grow up?”

“When are you going to finally settle down?”

But know what’s funnier… it’s usually the men

When I talk to married women a lot of the time they tell me not to do it. But then again women tend to be against conflict so I take their remarks and true feelings on the matter with a grain of salt.

 

[Lover]

You may want to read this golden nugget by Chase about how you could get into a marriage

Marriage - Marriage: Not a Big Deal (to You)

There are a lot of women for whom marriage is a BIG DEAL. This is THE day they have been dreaming about since they first started playing with Wedding Barbie at 4 years old. They already have their wedding dresses sketched out on paper, the colors of their bridesmaid's dresses planned out, the...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[TomInHo]

You may want to read this golden nugget by Chase about how you could get into a marriage

Marriage - Marriage: Not a Big Deal (to You)

There are a lot of women for whom marriage is a BIG DEAL. This is THE day they have been dreaming about since they first started playing with Wedding Barbie at 4 years old. They already have their wedding dresses sketched out on paper, the colors of their bridesmaid's dresses planned out, the...

www.skilledseducer.com

I read it and wasn’t impressed

Have no problem with forming a pair bond with a woman. But signing a document that gets the government involved and reduces your leverage in a relationship is plain stupid to me

You can frame it however you like, but legal bindings are a big deal and no amount of reframing changes that reality

 

[ulrich]

I personally think that monogamy and getting married is absolutely the best possible solution for raising a family.
That does take a toll in the man’s freedom (as well as the woman) for the well-being of the children.

I don’t think it really needs a deeper analysis than that.
It only makes sense if you’re willing to sacrifice part of your well-being (it doesn’t have to be huge) for the good of your children.

Now, there’s a second reason to get married: companionship.
But I’m pretty sure anyone skilled in seduction can get far more convenient arrangements than full-life monogamy if companionship is the priority.

However, keep in mind that as you get older, companionship will become a bigger and bigger need in your life.
Old people can barely function without some form of help… something to consider when you’re close to 60’s.

 

[TomInHo]

I personally think that monogamy and getting married is absolutely the best possible solution for raising a family.

Is that really true though? I know people that have families that are not monogamous

They cheat and pretend to society that they’re faithful

Their kids seem to be doing just fine

That does take a toll in the man’s freedom (as well as the woman) for the well-being of the children.

I’ve noticed that men that are very attractive tend to have issues with reducing their freedom

There’s a popular saying… “A man is only as faithful as his options”

And no matter how wonderful your wife is, when you’re going through a rough patch and other women are throwing themselves at you we all know what can happen next

So why make promises on things very unrealistic?

I don’t think it really needs a deeper analysis than that.

Why not? Why do we always have to just accept things and not discuss alternative lifestyles and solutions for longer term relationships

It only makes sense if you’re willing to sacrifice part of your well-being (it doesn’t have to be huge) for the good of your children.

I agree to a point

But let’s look at the creator of Benihana… Rocky Aoki

He had a wife and kids but was barely around. He flew around the world having adventures, fucking multiple women while coming back to his family to rest

Yet, even with this behavior his children absolutely adored him.

In fact he motivated one of his son’s Steve Aoki to become one of the most popular DJ’s in our generation

This made me rethink what the real role of the Father in the household is. And maybe he doesn’t need be around as much as we’ve been conditioned to believe and he can play more of a Role Model role

Now, there’s a second reason to get married: companionship

Companionship ain’t scarce

But I’m pretty sure anyone skilled in seduction can get far more convenient arrangements than full-life monogamy if companionship is the priority.

Facts

However, keep in mind that as you get older, companionship will become a bigger and bigger need in your life.

True, but the longer I do this I’ve learned you can get companionship from past lovers pretty easily

If your main options falls off, you reach out to old girls and see who is available

60 is a decent age but as a male if you have been serious about your finances and fundamentals you can still slay attractive women

For example I have a female client that is very attractive at 41 and is dating a guy that is 63 that is captain for a yacht. She’s been with him for almost a year and is on cloud 9 with him…. And no he doesn’t do sugar daddy game

Old people can barely function without some form of help… something to consider when you’re close to 60’s.

Yes and No.

I have clients that are very healthy in their 60s. Have a woman that is 66 and can do 10 full pull-ups

I wouldn’t call that weak and as you age you obviously can’t perform as well in your 30s to 40s.

And also if you’re in your 60’s it’s not unrealistic for you to pairbond with a woman in her early 40s that already had kids with another man and only wants you for companionship too

 

[Lover]

I read it and wasn’t impressed

Have no problem with forming a pair bond with a woman. But signing a document that gets the government involved and reduces your leverage in a relationship is plain stupid to me

You can frame it however you like, but legal bindings are big deal and no amount of reframing changes that reality

We are not in disagreement. In fact, we seem to see things the same way about the downsides of marriage

On the other hand, we are all changeable. I have been opposed to marriage since I was a teenager. I never minded LTR's. But seeing how I can change my stance on other things, I won't say I will not change my opinion on getting married down the road. I just don't know what it takes for it to happen

And that's why I like the other post so much - it is better to set a good precedent to the woman to still be the one-up IF you decide to go that route

I’ve noticed that men that are very attractive tend to have issues with reducing their freedom

There’s a popular saying… “A man is only as faithful as his options”

And no matter how wonderful your wife is, when you’re going through a rough patch and other women are throwing themselves at you we all know what can happen next

So why make promises on things very unrealistic?

In such cases, why not have an open relationship? Maybe even a relationship where the woman doesn't sleep around but the guy does (not saying anything about marriage though)

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

Ah yes the reflection posts are rolling in

Well, it depends on what you're looking for. For me, I def see myself getting married some time in the future

And different reasons can motivate people to get married. For example, companionship like others have stated. Then raising a family with kids

Kids are a big deal for most people. And raising children with a woman you love in a family setting is mostly ideal for them.

The whole baby mama trend of having different kids with different women is something I definitely don't want. Kids give you a sense of purpose too. Watching them grow and become people you're proud of is a beautiful thing to watch (Definitely teaching my son about game)

Also, I still believe that you can have a main girl that you can have threesomes with other girls long term. (For people who want to enjoy th novelty of new pussy)

I mean we have tribes in Africa where women willingly share men for years as wives even as side chics/concubines

 

[TomInHo]

We are not in disagreement. In fact, we seem to see things the same way about the downsides of marriage

On the other hand, we are all changeable. I have been opposed to marriage since I was a teenager. I never minded LTR's. But seeing how I can change my stance on other things, I won't say I will not change my opinion on getting married down the road. I just don't know what it takes for it to happen

And that's why I like the other post so much - it is better to set a good precedent to the woman to still be the one-up IF you decide to go that route

I see your point

In such cases, why not have an open relationship? Maybe even a relationship where the woman doesn't sleep around but the guy does (not saying anything about marriage though)

I do open relationships. Not really a fan of one way monogamy though because it puts too much pressure on me to fulfill her biological needs of having kids.

It's funny because even when I give women the freedom to see other men, they try even harder to lock me down and some even go monogamous when I don't ask for it. If they find another man, they stop seeing me, but when that relationship fails they tend to swing back

Quite annoying really because I really dislike having responsibility over women

 

[TomInHo]

Ah yes the reflection posts are rolling in

It's that time of year lol

Well, it depends on what you're looking for. For me, I def see myself getting married some time in the future

True. I think marriage works for certain people

And different reasons can motivate people to get married. For example, companionship like others have stated. Then raising a family with kids

Kids are a big deal for most people. And raising children with a woman you love in a family setting is mostly ideal for them.

I agree about kids, but why do most divorces happen when the kids leave the home?

The whole baby mama trend of having different kids with different women is something I definitely don't want. Kids give you a sense of purpose too. Watching them grow and become people you're proud of is a beautiful thing to watch (Definitely teaching my son about game)

I can see the appeal in that. Having kids could give you purpose but that's not the only way a man can have that. He could be focused on building business, motivating younger males too

In fact I had a discussion with one of my friends that just had a kid. He is Samoan and told me how in this culture boys tend to have two fathers. One that is biological and another one that the boy chooses as a mentor

So technically if you want a similar feeling you could find ways to position yourself as the 2nd Father for boys and girls to fulfill that need if it's very strong

Also, I still believe that you can have a main girl that you can have threesomes with other girls long term. (For people who want to enjoy th novelty of new pussy)

I've had main girls that were well aware of me fucking other women yet still wanted progress. Not a fan of 3 some relationships personally but getting new pussy on the side isn't a problem

I mean we have tribes in Africa where women willingly share men for years as wives even as side chics/concubines

Yeah but some of those women also cheat on those men too from time to time (there goes the one way monogamy fantasy). Plus having multiple serious wives sounds like a freaking headache

Also not in Africa and have no plans to move there so looking for solutions that are relevant to the west

 

[DoWhatWorks]

To answer the original question (for me) legally getting married is not worth it.

If you’re an ambitious guy who plans to have vast resources that contract is literally all downside and arguably just a failed shit test.

Having the “marriage experience” for your kids benefit does make sense based on the data.

People lack creativity/critical thinking though… Well rounded kids come from supportive 2 parent households, extensive family resources, wider community support & competent individuals trying their best vs legal paperwork.

For any competent seducer here, you could give a long-standing MLTR the “marriage experience” without the contract & she’d jump on it before you change your mind

*shrugs*

Assuming you don’t want kids? Continue with your preferred relationship model of choice

Like others have said, marriage is done by most to gain purpose and relieve society pressure.


Even going up the career ladder you’re seen as “safer” & “trustworthy” when married. Which is just number 103737 of why I run my own biz

If you already have purpose & are self reliant/don’t care about society pressure marriage seems even less appealing.

I’m not knocking marriage though. I think it’s a useful tool that probably brings more society stability but it’s wrongly subscribed as a one size-fits all solution.

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

I'm with TominHoe on this one. Getting the government involved in ANYTHING that it doesn't need to be involved in, is flat out retarded. Getting it involved in love... and family... even more stupid.

Then if we look at courts ruling in favor of women something like 93% of the time, you'd have to be a king sized moron to get the state involved into your LTR in any way, shape or form... at least if you live in the West. Personally I wouldn't do it anywhere else either.

That doesn't mean I'm against life long monogamy or family, by the way. It's not the path I've chosen but I think it's a great path if you find the right woman. I'm still open to the idea... again, if it's with the right person.

The government is NOT the right person, and does not belong in my bedroom. Neither is the church btw.

 

[DoWhatWorks]

But let’s look at the creator of Benihana… Rocky Aoki

He had a wife and kids but was barely around. He flew around the world having adventures, fucking multiple women while coming back to his family to rest

Yet, even with this behavior his children absolutely adored him.

In fact he motivated one of his son’s Steve Aoki to become one of the most popular DJ’s in our generation

This made me rethink what the real role of the Father in the household is. And maybe he doesn’t need be around as much as we’ve been conditioned to believe and he can play more of a Role Model role

P.S picking up on this as you’ve mentioned him before to raise an interesting discussion.

I think you have to be careful with aspiring for niche cases like this. Especially if you decide to have kids in the west, just as easily his kids could g despise him as an “uncommitted father”

You see it often with rich men where the kids are bitter that dad wasn’t around to change their diapers and walk them to school. Looking at trends of increased paternity leaves, women out earning men and stay at home dads rising it can easily swing this way instead.

Don’t know what the solution is though… My latest thinking is have external appearances “as normal” so you’re left alone then live however the way you like internal. That has its downsides too as we saw with Will and Jada lol

 

[TomInHo]

P.S picking up on this as you’ve mentioned him before to raise an interesting discussion.

I think you have to be careful with aspiring for niche cases like this. Especially if you decide to have kids in the west, just as easily his kids could g despise him as an “uncommitted father”

I agree that’s not a perfect solution. But for me personally I wouldn’t mind doing zoom calls with my kids every once in a while to maintain the connection

I told this to a recent MLTR and she told me to never have kids lol

I guess I’m too selfish and wouldn’t care much if my kids thought I was “uncommitted”. That might change but again I really don’t want kids right now

You see it often with rich men where the kids are bitter that dad wasn’t around to change their diapers and walk them to school. Looking at trends of increased paternity leaves, women out earning men and stay at home dads rising it can easily swing this way instead.

Yeah the stay at home dad thing is becoming more popular.

Times really are changing and I also feel like with the development of AI, male and female dynamics in the next 10-15 years will be very fascinating to observe evolve

Don’t know what the solution is though…

I have no idea either, hence this thread

My latest thinking is have external appearances “as normal” so you’re left alone then live however the way you like internal. That has its downsides too as we saw with Will and Jada lol

Oh yeah, Will and Jada were a complete failure lol

But apparently the main singer of Maroon 5, Adam Levine seems to have this arrangement with his wife

Only figured it out because of the leaked text messages from his “Affair” last year

 

[DoWhatWorks]

But for me personally I wouldn’t mind doing zoom calls with my kids every once in a while to maintain the connection

My guy said zoom call like his kids are corporate stakeholders

That might change but again I really don’t want kids right now

Good perspective. I’ve personally found peace by working to be in a position where I could have kids if I wanted (financially, life set up etc) and if I don’t, still benefit from what I built

Times really are changing and I also feel like with the development of AI, male and female dynamics in the next 10-15 years will be very fascinating to observe evolve

Wild times ahead. Although if you’re a guy with fundamentals, game & resources all in one??

Literally be declining girls…

Genuinely think the challenge for us will be our older FB’s trying to have our babies

May have to go di Caprio to be honest.

Not 30 yet but had to end it with a MLTR who “thought we’d last forever” & an existing 24 y/o FB is hinting at us getting married “as a joke”

No where near my potential but girls are seeing the traction and trying to latch on already

God knows what happens when I hit targets

But apparently the main singer of Maroon 5, Adam Levine seems to have this arrangement with his wife

I quickly looked at this and could be the way forward. The guy gave a womanese apology and was left alone relatively unscathed lol

There must be celebrities pulling this off but we don’t hear about them… So it’s hard to get info

 

[Will_V]

Good thread.

I was always iffy about getting legally married and lately have been veering away even more - it seems like a bad deal by all accounts. It's no longer necessary for marriage and divorce outcomes to be so heavily skewed in favor of women because they no longer need that security - they are doing better and earning better than men these days, so it's already functionally outdated.

The only reason, I believe, that it continues this way is because of the social control factor. There's nothing that can tame a wild horse into a plough donkey faster than the prospect of being rewarded with a woman, and nothing that makes the plough donkey keep ploughing quite so well as the prospect of losing, well, everything. So it suits a society to keep marriage in this form, where a man psychologically orbits around his wife, who psychologically orbits around the society (media), and together with marriage and divorce laws, you have harnessed them both in the most effective way possible.

Because the expectation of women is that you enter into such an arrangement, since it is the norm, this already sets a very poor frame for marriage in general, despite the leeway that everyone has in exactly how they live out that marriage. And it is that kind of frame pressure that I think would be most difficult to deal with long term.

I don't know how easy it is to bring kids into the world in a different kind of relationship, but I find myself exploring those possibilities more as time goes on.
...

@TomInHo the concept that a man does not need to be around all the time to raise a good family is one that's very interesting to me. I've thought about this a lot and concluded that it is at least somewhat true.

In psychoanalysis, the father figure is considered to be a very strong symbol in the mind of a child, and both adoration and resentment toward this symbol play an effective role in shaping them and driving them at different points in their lives. The thing with symbols is that the reality is, as a rule, far more disappointing and far less powerful than the symbol itself. And so it seems to me that for the symbol of a father to have the greatest effect, some distance needs to be maintained.

The thing is, that symbol is more of a compass than a nanny, it provides a direction toward which a child should strive. And how can a child strive toward what is already always there? There must be always a gap for them to close, both in terms of distance, and in terms of knowledge - the symbol must occupy a metaphysical place in which it is never fully materialised into reality.

And at a certain point a child is required to overcome that symbol, to render themselves more powerful than it, and to turn that symbol from a master into a monument. And this can't really happen if that symbol is always there trying to care of them.

The same way that nature uses men as prototypes, some successful and some not, I believe nature also uses them for their symbolic value as well. And it is only for women to occupy that position of tranquil permanence, both in their actual lives, and also in the minds of their children.

Exactly how to do this right, I can't really say yet.

 

[orkie123]

Limited experience here but sometimes I think there is nothing wrong with getting lost in the Hollywood fairytale.

Yeah there is a high chance of crashing or at least becoming boring, but I don't think the appeal of having a fun lifetime companion who you achieve things with will dissapear from me no matter how much reality hits you in the face.

With my ex, I felt like I found someone who I could do anything with. And while it did crash and you find out some things were just a mirage, I still treasure those stories as if it was all real. End of the day, everybody forms their own versions of the truth and reality.

Lately I also wonder what the point of legal marriage is. Some countries impose the same laws as marriage if you live together a while anyway though. Esp if kids are involved.

Which country has jurisidction over how divorce would be handled? It may be worth trying to move to a country with more fair laws.