Is there something wrong with this girl or am I such an amateur?

[Incredible]

Hello, recently I had this experience and I'd like to know what you guys think about it.

I was at a wedding of my sister, with an ordinary girl that I never meet before. She is my sister's friend from college (without boyfriend). I was chatting with her a couple of days before on facebook, talking a little bit about what to wear at the event so we could match a little bit and so on. Then we meet some time before the wedding, did some conversations with her and others, we did togehter some preparations for the evening, everything was really normal and in a good mood. The party after the wedding went great, every single member had fun, we were dancing almost to the morning. I was maintaining natural contact with her, touching her shoulders, holding hands, dancing, and so on. Nothing special, more like friends than a lovers, maybe showing a little bit interest in her. Later in the evening I was suggesting few times that we could go a little bit away from this noise, for a walk or somehing like that. She resisted, and the last time I did it she asked directly "why?". So I did the same and answered also directly but with a semi-serious voice "Because then we could kiss.". Not sure how seriously she took that, but she made a big, clearly negative grimace with her face, that surprised me. After that, I was like "Well, if you dont want to do that, it's ok, you dont have to. We don't have to make a big deal out of it". A was also a little bit joking an teasing her in order to ease the situation saying something like "I must reprove my sister for what a girls is she sending to me" followed by "Hey, just kidding. Don't worry, everything is OK." But the girl was after the "kissing" moment very defensive and non-talkative. It was like something broke inside her. She does not respond now even on facebook, where I tried to ask her if she was startled by that. She said only "yeah". So I tried to say sorry, but she is not responding anymore. So at the end I wrote her "Are you still sulking? Do not be emotionally immature." (what does she think she is? )

I do not understand what happened in her head. I was never forcing her to anything, I was giving her company but also space, everything was really innocent. If she does not want to kiss with me, it is OK. We could be friends, I would like that. But why she have to behave like this. I'm frustrated by the fact that I understand nothing. What do you think?

 

[Incredible]

Well, I don't think it was totaly random. I did some 'preparations' before, for example touching her feets, little bit flirting and so on, but maybe it was not enough. I didn't want to scare too much somebody who sees me first time. It is possible that this girl has very little experiences with boys, so she couldn't recognize my subtle messages. Do you think I should be much more open and 'theatrical'?

 

[Inbocca]

It's not that she wasn't able to see through your subtlety (girls are really good at picking up on that stuff), but the fact that they're contradicting the person you're presenting yourself as. Let's look at it from the beginning:

I was at a wedding of my sister, with an ordinary girl that I never meet before.

You're at her friend's wedding, you're her friend's brother. That automatically makes this at least somewhat of a social circle situation. If things go south with you, now that affects things with her friend (your sister). Idk how close they are, but she might have some reservations from this alone.

I was chatting with her a couple of days before on facebook, talking a little bit about what to wear at the event so we could match a little bit and so on.

So you've already been talking to this girl for a few days. She's starting to form an opinion about you, and after a few days, it starts becoming more concrete. If you're not establishing yourself as "lover" material right away, you start slipping into one of the other two categories: friend or boyfriend. And based on what you say later...

Nothing special, more like friends than a lovers, maybe showing a little bit interest in her.

... you were headed straight for the friend zone.

Later in the evening I was suggesting few times that we could go a little bit away from this noise, for a walk or somehing like that. She resisted, and the last time I did it she asked directly "why?"

So first you're establishing yourself as friendly and maybe a little interested, now you're trying to get her one-on-one with you. She can see this, and it's a stark contrast from what you've been doing up until now. It's not that you're moving too fast, it's that compared to the pace you've been moving it looks way too fast. Not only that, but you're suggesting it rather than initiating it and clearly giving her an out if she opts to take it. It's presenting her with something that she has strong reservations about because you're building it up to be a big thing by talking about it rather than just doing it. So now she's going to be nervous and uncomfortable about it, and then you say "Well, if you dont want to do that, it's ok, you dont have to. We don't have to make a big deal out of it." Boom, instant relief for her discomfort. She's gonna take the out.

A was also a little bit joking an teasing her in order to ease the situation saying something like "I must reprove my sister for what a girls is she sending to me" followed by "Hey, just kidding. Don't worry, everything is OK."

So now she's uncomfortable because someone she thought was a friend or maybe even a nice guy just tried to get her to go with him alone so they could kiss (it's likely she thought you really wanted something more, privacy usually isn't required for "just kissing"), and then after that he makes a comment that mildly berates her - making her feel bad for something she probably already felt kind of bad about. And then comes the nail in the coffin:

She does not respond now even on facebook, where I tried to ask her if she was startled by that. She said only "yeah". So I tried to say sorry, but she is not responding anymore. So at the end I wrote her "Are you still sulking? Do not be emotionally immature."

Chasing after her is bad. Being bitter is worse. If there was a way to salvage things with this girl after that night, it was gone after this happened. If she stops responding altogether, just let it die off. When you made that last comment, she knew you knew she wasn't going to respond anymore, so it looks like you're either just trying to get an insult in to feel better or provoke a response by making her angry. Both of those things slot you firmly in the "guy-who-got-rejected-and-then-got-angry zone". If there is a worse zone than the friend zone, it's that one.

All in all, man, this is just a learning experience. I'd read up on the articles on the blog portion of this website; there's one for every error here, and if there's not there probably will be soon. Keep at it, though, and soon you'll be able to look back at that night and laugh

Good luck!

 

[Incredible]

Thanks for your analysis, most of the things makes sense for me. Now I understand 'the friendzone', or that It is bad to tease her this way and write stupid things in the fb chat. But there is still one dilemma that is puzzling me:

If you're not establishing yourself as a "lover" material right away, you start slipping into one of the other two categories: friend or boyfriend.

Why should I decide/let her know I will be a "lover" from beginning? It looks somewhat unnatural to me. She is somebody I do not know at the beginning so how can I assume I would like to kiss/f*ck her? (Yes, I saw her look, but would you really like to f*ck every single girl that looks good/acceptable for you?). From my subjective point of view, the intended escalation process seemed natural and fluent. I met the girl, was talking to her, dancing, touching, telling her that I am open for some casual intimacy. Probably I was communcating my intentions poorly so she could not find out what exactly I want from her. What do you think?

I have already read pretty decent amount of articles here and noticed that you guys draw a really strong, unpenetrable wall between friendship zone and a lover zone. Not sure if I'm the only one, but in my world I would like to have a lot of good female friends that could be 'something more' from time to time. On the other side, it is barely imaginable for me to have a sexual relationship with someone who I don't consider a friend of mine in my heart. No matter if it is a long term relationship or a one night stand, I need to feel the friendship, the team spirit. Otherwise it would be like to fuck an enemy

 

[Inbocca]

No problem!

Why should I decide/let her know I will be a "lover" from beginning?

There's a few articles on the subject (can't find them all, but this is probably one of the best ways of explaining it). Chase explains it really well in there, but the bottom line is if you're not moving fast with confidence, you're probably not going to seal the deal.

As for the other part, that's where deep diving and getting to know her quickly comes into play. Learn more about her, get her to tell you things she doesn't normally talk to strangers about, and then it's like you're really close even though you've only just met. But again; move faster.

 

[Incredible]

I think he's explaining it well enough, thanks. But to be clear, which part of my game should be faster - the physical one or the conversational (stuff like deep diving and so on)? I don't think I've made a lot of deep diving, it was pretty common.

 

[Inbocca]

Both. The trick is to do it while making it seem really casual and natural. That's the part I'm still trying to get down, hahah. It all comes with experience, though.