It's Really Hard to Do Well with Girls When You're Negative

[Chase]

I just replied to a post by @Blackheart about every woman not liking him.

He has noted that he wants to "stop hating women" and from the way he talks about them you can sense his genuine alienation from them.

On top of that, his username itself is "black heart." Part of a mini-trend I've noticed of guys with negative mentalities picking negative usernames... there used to be a user named Nowhere (later @Tank) who spent years and years literally getting almost Nowhere with girls. We've had other guys with negative usernames about sucking or being depressed or being losers. These guys tend to be fonts of negativity and defeatism.

Here's the thing: it is very, very hard to succeed at ANYTHING when your whole mindset toward it is negative:

• Imagine trying to learn basketball when you believe you're "not a physical person" and assume you'll miss every shot. Do you think you'll be able to put the kind of focus into your shots to get your muscles firing at the right time in the right direction to put a ball through a hoop? Doubtful.
  
  
• Imagine trying to learn to draw when you believe you "don't have the artist gene" and assume your drawings will suck. Do you think you'll draw with the same kind of precision and determination a focused artist who is trying hard to produce a certain piece of art will? Certainly not.
  
  
• Imagine trying to learn sales when you believe "sales is just too hard for someone like me." Are you going to learn your pitches to perfection and spend time coming up with responses to objections? Are you going to study and type your customers so you know how to change your delivery for each different customer type? Or are you not going to bother with that stuff and just half-ass your way through the selling process because you're so certain it won't work anyway? The latter.

I generally dislike "you have to have the right mindset to blah blah blah" because for most people if you can get a guy into action, once he starts seeing some initial results a lot of the positive mindset stuff kind of takes care of itself in my experience.

However, if you are really negative about learning something, or about yourself, or about other people, or just the world in general, it is like running uphill with a dingo strapped to your back. Not only is it going to be heavy and tiring, but that thing is going to be kicking, screaming, fighting, and biting the entire way.

Over the years I have coached probably tens of thousands of men in real life, over the phone, and over article comments and forum threads. The positive guys always end up with results they are happy with. The negative guys never do. Even if the negative guys get laid (and some of them do), it is never with the quality of woman they want or with the kind of ease they expect. It is always too hard, for too little result.

The dingo on your back is the reason why. It is impossible to fully focus yourself on anything, with determined, confident, optimistic energy, when you are loafing around fatalistically expecting to fail, bracing for the impact, and just generally half-assing it because you know it's not gonna work anyway.

I don't care what you're trying to do, whether it's figure skating or talking to girls. If you're going in with a negative mentality, you are going to struggle to get likely even very basic results.

You must be aware of this, and you must realize the negative mentality is THE thing to fix. You aren't trying to fix the woman thing first, or the friends thing, or the job thing, or the skill thing, or anything else. You are seeking to fix your negativity. Fix that and learning anything else is like walking uphill with a free back (no dingo backpack).

It is a basic step for anyone who decides he wants to improve his life in any substantial way that is very outside his norm:

• Wants to learn some great new athletic skill
• Wants to develop some great artistic ability
• Wants to build some powerful social skill
• Wants to learn to navigate a new career

Before you dive into any real attempts at learning, you need to be able to go in with a learning mindset, which requires an open, positive, focused, optimistic mind.

Tennis players choke when they get too negative. So do basketball players. Artists do bad art when they're negative. Salesmen can't close when they're negative. Guys chatting up girls bomb when they're negative.

Negativity will undermine you with almost anything you want to do that requires focus and grit.

It's step 1 in developing any kind of improvement in life:

Shed your negativity first.

Not sure how to do that?

Read these articles:

How to Overcome Depression

Was discussing this on a forum with a guy; I used to talk about it a fair amount, some time back, but it's sort of faded from my life in significance. It just isn't on my mind much these days anymore, but I do remember how big a deal it was for me once, and hopefully my story and process can...

www.girlschase.com

Most Important Thing to Becoming a Lover of Women? Don't Be Bitter.

I sat there in a café by myself, staring blankly at a couple of abandoned plates of food. "I won't let this make me bitter," I whispered under my breath. I'd spent the night talking and moving from club to club with a girl I liked a lot and had been pursuing for months. She was smart, funny...

www.girlschase.com

How Victim Mentality Can Stifle Your Life – and Luck with Women

When I first began working in the self-help industry in earnest, I was, as most new to the industry are, overcome with a desire to help others. The pride I got when hearing I'd helped someone turn around his station in life with women, or turn around his life in general, was great. It's still...

www.girlschase.com

Chase

 

[Whiteheart]

I just replied to a post by @Blackheart about every woman not liking him.

He has noted that he wants to "stop hating women" and from the way he talks about them you can sense his genuine alienation from them.

On top of that, his username itself is "black heart." Part of a mini-trend I've noticed of guys with negative mentalities picking negative usernames... there used to be a user named Nowhere (later @Tank) who spent years and years literally getting almost Nowhere with girls. We've had other guys with negative usernames about sucking or being depressed or being losers. These guys tend to be fonts of negativity and defeatism.

Here's the thing: it is very, very hard to succeed at ANYTHING when your whole mindset toward it is negative:

• Imagine trying to learn basketball when you believe you're "not a physical person" and assume you'll miss every shot. Do you think you'll be able to put the kind of focus into your shots to get your muscles firing at the right time in the right direction to put a ball through a hoop? Doubtful.
  
  
• Imagine trying to learn to draw when you believe you "don't have the artist gene" and assume your drawings will suck. Do you think you'll draw with the same kind of precision and determination a focused artist who is trying hard to produce a certain piece of art will? Certainly not.
  
  
• Imagine trying to learn sales when you believe "sales is just too hard for someone like me." Are you going to learn your pitches to perfection and spend time coming up with responses to objections? Are you going to study and type your customers so you know how to change your delivery for each different customer type? Or are you not going to bother with that stuff and just half-ass your way through the selling process because you're so certain it won't work anyway? The latter.

I generally dislike "you have to have the right mindset to blah blah blah" because for most people if you can get a guy into action, once he starts seeing some initial results a lot of the positive mindset stuff kind of takes care of itself in my experience.

However, if you are really negative about learning something, or about yourself, or about other people, or just the world in general, it is like running uphill with a dingo strapped to your back. Not only is it going to be heavy and tiring, but that thing is going to be kicking, screaming, fighting, and biting the entire way.

Over the years I have coached probably tens of thousands of men in real life, over the phone, and over article comments and forum threads. The positive guys always end up with results they are happy with. The negative guys never do. Even if the negative guys get laid (and some of them do), it is never with the quality of woman they want or with the kind of ease they expect. It is always too hard, for too little result.

The dingo on your back is the reason why. It is impossible to fully focus yourself on anything, with determined, confident, optimistic energy, when you are loafing around fatalistically expecting to fail, bracing for the impact, and just generally half-assing it because you know it's not gonna work anyway.

I don't care what you're trying to do, whether it's figure skating or talking to girls. If you're going in with a negative mentality, you are going to struggle to get likely even very basic results.

You must be aware of this, and you must realize the negative mentality is THE thing to fix. You aren't trying to fix the woman thing first, or the friends thing, or the job thing, or the skill thing, or anything else. You are seeking to fix your negativity. Fix that and learning anything else is like walking uphill with a free back (no dingo backpack).

It is a basic step for anyone who decides he wants to improve his life in any substantial way that is very outside his norm:

• Wants to learn some great new athletic skill
• Wants to develop some great artistic ability
• Wants to build some powerful social skill
• Wants to learn to navigate a new career

Before you dive into any real attempts at learning, you need to be able to go in with a learning mindset, which requires an open, positive, focused, optimistic mind.

Tennis players choke when they get too negative. So do basketball players. Artists do bad art when they're negative. Salesmen can't close when they're negative. Guys chatting up girls bomb when they're negative.

Negativity will undermine you with almost anything you want to do that requires focus and grit.

It's step 1 in developing any kind of improvement in life:

Shed your negativity first.

Not sure how to do that?

Read these articles:

How to Overcome Depression

Was discussing this on a forum with a guy; I used to talk about it a fair amount, some time back, but it's sort of faded from my life in significance. It just isn't on my mind much these days anymore, but I do remember how big a deal it was for me once, and hopefully my story and process can...

www.girlschase.com

Most Important Thing to Becoming a Lover of Women? Don't Be Bitter.

I sat there in a café by myself, staring blankly at a couple of abandoned plates of food. "I won't let this make me bitter," I whispered under my breath. I'd spent the night talking and moving from club to club with a girl I liked a lot and had been pursuing for months. She was smart, funny...

www.girlschase.com

How Victim Mentality Can Stifle Your Life – and Luck with Women

When I first began working in the self-help industry in earnest, I was, as most new to the industry are, overcome with a desire to help others. The pride I got when hearing I'd helped someone turn around his station in life with women, or turn around his life in general, was great. It's still...

www.girlschase.com

Chase

Chase,

Definitely agree with this. Negativity influences many aspects of life, not just women and should be eradicated. I became negative as consequence of many bad experiences not at the beginning of my journal in learning seduction. It is hard to stay positive after countless of bad experiences in period of 10 years despite invested huge amount of time and life energy. I always had positive mindset "Ok this girl didn’t like me or she did but I screwed some things and it will be better with next one". And it never was. I caught myself that I had many good on paper interactions but those girls would either find some detail that didn’t like or would friend zone me from very beginning and then I cracked. One day I will precisely describe examples what happened and then you judge for yourself.

 

[Skills]

@Skjöldr when through a stage like this, interesting he stop temporarily with that crap and started getting laid like crazy, maybe he can share how he did or mask it, or toned it down... I met tank in person he would get really down on himself depress on the field.... the guys that are good don't really have such a sour view of women.... Though i can see after tons of rejections or break up easy to fall into this (red pill and black pill community is full of this)

The main problem with this attitude to add to the post is ras, the ras is extremely powerful, a lot of interacting with women is also vibing.... Also negative view of women will totally destroy any retention chances, even if you are able to mask this and get laid.... Anyways, i just want to add to chase post @Blackheart the concept of ras:

"The Reticular Activating System (RAS) is the name given to part of the brain (the reticular formation and its connections) believed to be the centre of arousal and motivation in animals (including humans). It is situated at the core of the brain stem between the myelencephalon (medulla oblongata) and mesencephalon (midbrain).

The Reticular Activating System is the attention center in the brain. It is the key to “turning on your brain.” A cluster of cells in the brain act as a filter to the information we receive, these cells filter out the irrelevant information but retain that which is useful.

So how does this relate to seduction and meeting girls?

You can train your RAS to recognize more and more girls every day.

How? Simply ask yourself better questions.

“The questions you ask yourself will determine how the Reticular Activating System will respond to your search,” according to Mark A. Wigginton, an Austin, Texas-based personal development coach

For example, if you ask yourself, “Why can’t I seem to find a girl?” your brain will hand you a list of seemingly valid reasons why you aren’t moving forward.

“As you bring the reasons you can’t progress to the forefront of your mind, your RAS will automatically seek out reinforcement. ‘I can’t make progress because of conflicts with my schedule, my family responsibilities, I don’t know the right people, loud nightclubs, poor stupid girls etc.'”

But if you ask yourself, “What one thing can I do today to improve my chances of meeting girls?” or “How and where can I find beautiful girls that are easy to talk to?” your RAS will lead you toward the results you want. And you’ll get girls faster.

I am sure you have often heard how the sub-conscious thoughts we think can control what happens to us and that we need to “visualize” what we want in order to obtain “it.” Name it and claim it so to speak.

The RAS gives your brain the ability to sort through all the information around you, allowing you the capability to index data that is being thrown at you in order of importance or relevance. In other words, the RAS tells you what should pay attention to and what you should ignore.

Let me give you a simple example of an every day occurrence of RAS in your daily life. Today you decided you would love to own a new red Porsche sports car. On your way to an important business meeting, you begin to notice a lot of red Porsche sports cars on the road when you hadn’t before. Was there suddenly a huge increase of red Porsche sports cars driving on the road? Probably not.

Most likely the cars were there all along, it’s just your RAS fast at work. Your reticular activating system has now indexed the red Porsche sports car as an important factor in your life, causing you to recognize it at nearly every occurrence. Your RAS is constantly working in both your personal and your professional life, indexing the beliefs you have deemed in your personal value system as important and those that you deem as unobtainable.

Let me give you another example. All your life you have dreamed of becoming the most happening rock star on the planet, but you have constantly heard how impossible that task is and you subconsciously bought into that belief. Externally, or in your conscious mind you make your plans and work hard to achieve your desired goal.

Did you know that your conscious mind only controls 15% of what you actually do? The other 85% is handled by your subconscious mind. Look at those figures. 15% of your conscious thoughts and actions are now going to handle your path to success, while the other 85%, the part that believes you will fail, will control the rest of your path to success. If you are counting on your conscious mind to control your life, without reprogramming your subconscious mind, you are fighting a losing battle.

So how do you change the viscous cycle that seems to waylay your life and your aspirations of a successful music career or success in anything for that matter? You need to learn to utilize your RAS at will. If you learn to do so, you will tap into an incredible resource of authority and resourcefulness that will help you succeed where you have otherwise failed in the past.

In order to begin your training, you will have to do a few things to help yourself.

You must become 100%, absolutely sure, without a doubt, crystal clear about your wants, goals, needs and desires.

Next…it is vitally important that you write down your goals, plans, dreams and desires as well as what you will do to obtain them. I know you have heard this a million times, so I have. This time you must do it!

Go over the list and read it allowed to your self at least three to four times a day. Sounds stupid, but you MUST do it! Don’t get in the way of yourself! Somewhere in your subconscious mind is programmed a belief that says this is a stupid exercise and it won’t really work. So you say to your self you will either put it off until later or you believe that if you just read this statement, you’ll get it. You won’t. You have to follow it! Be proactive and do it!

This next part is also very important, although you may feel silly doing it. Tell your subconscious mind that this list is very important to you and command it to find a way for you to accomplish all the tasks you listed. Say it allowed at least two to three times a day (more if you want). Again, get out of the way of your self and your past belief system and let your brain and RAS do the job you want it to!

Once you do this, you will begin to find new ideas and beliefs that will come into your belief system. It is important to write these down as you will find a lot of real jewels among them. This is just a start in your path to success and changing your belief patterns about success.”

 

[Will_V]

Chase,

Definitely agree with this. Negativity influences many aspects of life, not just women and should be eradicated. I became negative as consequence of many bad experiences not at the beginning of my journal in learning seduction. It is hard to stay positive after countless of bad experiences in period of 10 years despite invested huge amount of time and life energy. I always had positive mindset "Ok this girl didn’t like me or she did but I screwed some things and it will be better with next one". And it never was. I caught myself that I had many good on paper interactions but those girls would either find some detail that didn’t like or would friend zone me from very beginning and then I cracked. One day I will precisely describe examples what happened and then you judge for yourself.

Remember that women will never validate the bitter experiences you've had in the past, nor will anyone else really. She will always treat you as a consequence of who you are right now, no matter whether she's a tinder date or a girlfriend you've been with for years. That means everything is always tied to your current behavior, for better or worse.

As @Chase mentioned, you can only truly validate psychological ordeals of any nature, women or otherwise, by evolving past them and rounding them off as the consequences of past levels of ability and self-development.

 

[Starboy]

I can relate to what Blackheart feels. I've seen several guys talk about their struggles and frustrations with women and I myself have been one of those guys too, but I leave it off the forum when I can. When they express their frustration and vent out how they feel it after striking out coaches usually assume immediately the problem is they're behaving toxic and negative infield with women and it's transmitting through their sub communications or something else must be wrong with them that's hard to identify over text. However it's usually a reactionary measure to their defeats and infield when interacting with women they're behaving normally although I can't speak for everyone. Sometimes for me intrusive negative thoughts about women slip in, but intrusive thoughts don't represent how we really feel and usually this is if I spend too much time online.

I'm sure there are guys out there who already started out with a negative view of women and their failures in trying pickup might've only solidified their views. Might reinforce their confirmation bias or their redpill/blackpill views "i'm not good looking enough" "women only want chads" etc. Before your 1st approach of the day you can have a clear mind be in a decent headspace,but if you're getting blownout, flaked/ghosted later on it's hard to remain positive while keep soldiering on. Especially if this guy has been trying for 10 years which is kind of mind boggling. When you start pickup it can be more exciting and you have that learner's mentality, but after getting the same results or lack of results for a while you kinda go thru the motions and lose some faith like blackheart. I think the biggest challenge for guys is how to remain positive and eager when you're in a rut and it seems like nothing you're doing is working.

 

[Skjöldr]

First: I don't "hate" women and I haven't changed (did get laid like crazy tho xd). Let me put it this way.
It is a natural process of stopping to care. When you get rejected more and more you start caring less and less. What happens in your brain is that you start objectifying these people, effectively "dehumanizing" them. You see it all the time. People classify others in order to justify that their opinion is meaningless. You see this in politics especially, with name calling. This requires tight frame control. I read it in a Girlschase newsletter once too. I am very good at not feeling weird anymore. If a girl looks at me like I am weird I will stare right back at her without flinging until she says something except giving me a weird look. I am able to do this because I don't take her serious. I don't take women serious or respect their opinion, until they give me a reason to. Some guys are of the "she is silly and cute" school, I am of the "she is a dumb bitch" school ontop of that. Achieves the same. Alot of the times I think a girl is just silly and cute. But the fact is that not all girls are silly and cute. Some are just dumb bitches. Both are a method of objectifying the person to invalidate her opinion so her rejection doesn't sting.

Back to OP:
This is still a good post. I have noticed that alot of things are possible when you stop self-sabotaging yourself with negative affirmations. Affirm positively.

 

[TomInHo]

I see were Blackheart is coming from, but it's still no excuse to be a negative Nancy.

The rejections can be brutal at times but it's really not that bad in the grand scheme of things. Because if you have a mindset that is geared towards real growth and mastery, then it will be easier to keep your mood up when failure comes

L's are for Lessons, and as long as you can keep your ego in check and actually pay attention to the lessons being taught... you will improve. So what the hell is there to be sad about?

Also if you're feeling down when it comes to seduction, you can always steal an affirmation I've been using since college,

"All women love me, and if that girl didn't like me, then she was clearly a lesbian. So to get girls like her in the future, I just need to learn how to make them straight"

 

[Chase]

@Starboy,

I can relate to what Blackheart feels. I've seen several guys talk about their struggles and frustrations with women and I myself have been one of those guys too, but I leave it off the forum when I can. When they express their frustration and vent out how they feel it after striking out coaches usually assume immediately the problem is they're behaving toxic and negative infield with women and it's transmitting through their sub communications or something else must be wrong with them that's hard to identify over text. However it's usually a reactionary measure to their defeats and infield when interacting with women they're behaving normally although I can't speak for everyone. Sometimes for me intrusive negative thoughts about women slip in, but intrusive thoughts don't represent how we really feel and usually this is if I spend too much time online.

I'm sure there are guys out there who already started out with a negative view of women and their failures in trying pickup might've only solidified their views. Might reinforce their confirmation bias or their redpill/blackpill views "i'm not good looking enough" "women only want chads" etc. Before your 1st approach of the day you can have a clear mind be in a decent headspace,but if you're getting blownout, flaked/ghosted later on it's hard to remain positive while keep soldiering on. Especially if this guy has been trying for 10 years which is kind of mind boggling. When you start pickup it can be more exciting and you have that learner's mentality, but after getting the same results or lack of results for a while you kinda go thru the motions and lose some faith like blackheart. I think the biggest challenge for guys is how to remain positive and eager when you're in a rut and it seems like nothing you're doing is working.

There are a couple things in here I'd like to address:

• Negative/pessimistic guys "behaving normally infield"
  
  
• Negativity being the symptom rather than the cause

I have both dealt with personal negativity, and I've coached guys in-field who have it. There is a lot of stuff that is invisible to less experienced guys, but that experienced playboys as well as women can detect very easily.


NORMAL BEHAVIOR ON APPROACH

When I've taken out guys who were dealing with negativity, they always believe they are dealing with women "normally", but their normal is not a way I would want to have a guy dealing with me, and it is easy to predict how women are likely to react to them. Guys struggling with negativity have women interact with them generally in one of two ways:

1. Kind/polite: these are women with generous souls who see a guy they maybe see some redeeming quality in, sense that he is awkward or hurting, and want to extend some basic human kindness to him to help show him the world's not all cruel.
   
   
2. Cold/fleeing: these are women who for one reason or another feel the need to protect themselves from this guy. That can be for different reasons. Some might think him low status. Some might worry he'll cling to them. Some might fear he'll snap or be dangerous.

Guys struggling with negativity usually fare best in social circle, where girls can get past the initial negativity buffer and see the redeeming qualities the guy has and make themselves more available to him. Cold approach is a tough grind for guys in the wrong head space.

One thing guys in this state don't understand, especially when they think they are being normal, is that normal / "I'm not depressed. Really!" is not sufficient for cold approach. In cold approach, you are approaching a strange woman who does not know you. There needs to be excitement, energy, passion, and confidence there. If it isn't there, you need to be trying to channel it as best you can ("fake it till you make it").

Guys struggling with negativity are usually going for "baseline normal" when they approach, where they are a little bit happy/friendly but mostly just normal. But walking up to strangers is not a "normal" thing to do. If you make it seem like you are "just being normal" while doing an abnormal thing, it makes the whole thing even weirder. You're supposed to be excited... interested... engaged... this is not a normal thing; there is some special connection between you and her. You're intrigued in her; you have some passion to meet her. Some playful demeanor you know she is going to respond well to.

The other aspect of this is that when you have become conditioned to expect rejection, there is a kind of Pavlovian training that sets in where you are more cautious (i.e., less bold/confident) in your approaches; you hold yourself back more; don't put the kind of passion or energy into them a confident guy does. You do all this to cushion the blow to your image and ego; if you weren't putting yourself 100% out there, it won't be as big a hurt when the inevitable rejection comes.

While it does cushion the blow to a man's ego, the girl can also tell he isn't putting 100% of himself into the approach.

Why he isn't doing that (whether due to lack of confidence or lack of interest) isn't so important to her.

She just knows this guy is not 100% there for her. The only girls who will usually go for a guy like that are girls for whom the guy is obviously a noticeable step up over themselves fundamentals-wise, or else a guy is just a perfect match for the girl type-wise (i.e., love at first sight).


NEGATIVITY CHICKEN-AND-EGG

Do the rejections cause the negativity, or does the negativity cause the rejections? Or both?

Well, it is both, which is part of why the cycle is so self-reinforcing for men who fall into it.

When I began doing cold approach pickup, I liked bottle blonde girls as much as any other type of girl. I had plenty of good experiences with them pre-cold approach.

However, once I started cold approaching, I found these girls rejected me consistently and coldly, in ways no other group of girls did, and after a while I became quite negative on them. I both began to dislike them and learned to always expect coldness/rejection from them. And that is what I got.

That continued for the first 2 years or so of my doing cold approach. I knew the negativity started because these girls rejected me; I didn't have it for them at all pre-cold approach. However, I began to suspect that as I'd gotten better and better with girls, the negativity continued at least in part because of how I was with them.

I did two things that changed that:

1. I changed my appearance and behavior a bit to better match the 'typical douche' type guys I noticed bottle blondes going for
   
   
2. I did a bunch of visualizations focused on cultivating warm, kind, seductive feelings toward these kinds of girls again

The result was after a few months of changing appearance, behavior, and mentality I started getting warmer and warmer reactions from bottle blondes, until I ended up being able to pick them up the same as any girl. I started having moments where I'd be deep in a pickup with one or lying in bed with one and my brain would suddenly go "Hey! If you met this girl a year ago she would've been stone cold to you. She is loving you now, isn't she?" and I'd inwardly smile and nod.

I discussed that more here:

How to Have Sex with Blonde Bombshells

There’s an undeniable allure to the blonde bombshell. Hers is a unique spot in the Western pantheon – with her own sexual iconography, even; one that makes her tremendously desirable to a large segment of the male population. And if you want a gal like her, you may find yourself hitting the same...

www.girlschase.com

The point being: the negativity may have gotten its start from those initial rejections.

It doesn't matter where it got its start though. Once it's going, it becomes a rejection-generating force all its own... one that produces a bunch more rejections, and even causes rejections to continue at much greater frequency than they should long after the guy's improved enough that he should be doing better.


TAKEAWAYS

The takeaway is, "Yes, a guy can think he is behaving 'normally' with women, and he can say that the reason he has negative feelings is because women rejected him. But 'normal' is not enough if he's doing cold approach; and regardless how those negative feelings got in there, so long as they are there they are going to retard his progress with women.

Normal is great for talking to coworkers at work or friends at the barbecue.

You need to be driven, passionate, gregarious, sensual, playful, and able to assume attraction when you're approaching strange women you do not know.

And if you've got bad feelings weighing you down, well, it doesn't matter what the cause of those were. Whatever the cause, so long as they're there, they will continue weighing you down.

So, step #1 if you want to change your outcomes with anything new and difficult you are trying to learn, is exorcise that negativity so you can begin operating with the vibe that will actually produce the results you're after.

Chase

 

[Regal Tiger]

I can relate to what Blackheart feels. I've seen several guys talk about their struggles and frustrations with women and I myself have been one of those guys too, but I leave it off the forum when I can. When they express their frustration and vent out how they feel it after striking out coaches usually assume immediately the problem is they're behaving toxic and negative infield with women and it's transmitting through their sub communications or something else must be wrong with them that's hard to identify over text. However it's usually a reactionary measure to their defeats and infield when interacting with women they're behaving normally although I can't speak for everyone. Sometimes for me intrusive negative thoughts about women slip in, but intrusive thoughts don't represent how we really feel and usually this is if I spend too much time online.

I'm sure there are guys out there who already started out with a negative view of women and their failures in trying pickup might've only solidified their views. Might reinforce their confirmation bias or their redpill/blackpill views "i'm not good looking enough" "women only want chads" etc. Before your 1st approach of the day you can have a clear mind be in a decent headspace,but if you're getting blownout, flaked/ghosted later on it's hard to remain positive while keep soldiering on. Especially if this guy has been trying for 10 years which is kind of mind boggling. When you start pickup it can be more exciting and you have that learner's mentality, but after getting the same results or lack of results for a while you kinda go thru the motions and lose some faith like blackheart. I think the biggest challenge for guys is how to remain positive and eager when you're in a rut and it seems like nothing you're doing is working.

Wish I could upvote this more than once cuz this is exactly how I personally feel

EDIT: @Chase makes a good point about suppressing yourself in approaches though (in my opinion/experience as I definitely do it). That's something I've noticed, I definitely don't bother putting too much of myself out there

My recent approach I noticed that she immediately was open to me and just open in general which in turn excited me

So that makes sense in what I've experienced and noticed in myself. I've also noticed that suppressing myself in this way has actually helped me in a lot of other ways with women:
1) online
2) social
3) dance events/class
4) even coffee shops to a degree


Is this something that could be explored more? I wanna make a post on it lol. It's an interesting concept, especially as I noticed I got more dates in the beginning of my mad daygame rush. I was more excited for sure

 

[Skills]

I can relate to what Blackheart feels. I've seen several guys talk about their struggles and frustrations with women and I myself have been one of those guys too, but I leave it off the forum when I can. When they express their frustration and vent out how they feel it after striking out coaches usually assume immediately the problem is they're behaving toxic and negative infield with women and it's transmitting through their sub communications or something else must be wrong with them that's hard to identify over text. However it's usually a reactionary measure to their defeats and infield when interacting with women they're behaving normally although I can't speak for everyone. Sometimes for me intrusive negative thoughts about women slip in, but intrusive thoughts don't represent how we really feel and usually this is if I spend too much time online.

I'm sure there are guys out there who already started out with a negative view of women and their failures in trying pickup might've only solidified their views. Might reinforce their confirmation bias or their redpill/blackpill views "i'm not good looking enough" "women only want chads" etc. Before your 1st approach of the day you can have a clear mind be in a decent headspace,but if you're getting blownout, flaked/ghosted later on it's hard to remain positive while keep soldiering on. Especially if this guy has been trying for 10 years which is kind of mind boggling. When you start pickup it can be more exciting and you have that learner's mentality, but after getting the same results or lack of results for a while you kinda go thru the motions and lose some faith like blackheart. I think the biggest challenge for guys is how to remain positive and eager when you're in a rut and it seems like nothing you're doing is working.

But you think that the advance guys, tribal elders and so called honest coaches dont go through this and even worst... We still suffer from the same actually i would argue worst cause more years, more field experiences, more time invested, choosing from abudance etc... so failure stings harder same as rejection. Again the difference is always self blame vs women blame again guys i already explain this here:

Special Girl - Quick reminder of the difference of our community vs other communities (red pill, mgtow, black pill etc..)

So guys frequently you will see post like this or like this, as @Chase explains beautifully: There are chicks you think are ride-or-die who turn tail and run or become the first one in line to knife you in the back when the chips are down. Likewise, there are chicks you think would never...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Osiris]

When I've taken out guys who were dealing with negativity, they always believe they are dealing with women "normally", but their normal is not a way I would want to have a guy dealing with me, and it is easy to predict how women are likely to react to them. Guys struggling with negativity have women interact with them generally in one of two ways:

1. Kind/polite: these are women with generous souls who see a guy they maybe see some redeeming quality in, sense that he is awkward or hurting, and want to extend some basic human kindness to him to help show him the world's not all cruel.
   
   
2. Cold/fleeing: these are women who for one reason or another feel the need to protect themselves from this guy. That can be for different reasons. Some might think him low status. Some might worry he'll cling to them. Some might fear he'll snap or be dangerous.

Hi Everyone, I finally made an account after thinking of it for a long time, I do not want to continue the negativity so I will keep it brief, I grew up as a single, lonely and depressed kid, The only girls that I know were the ones that moved past the initial negativity buffer with me and the others reacted to me with either of the reactions Chase Suggested. I have been trying to learn, and I do not blame woman or others, I see it as my responsibility, and SO MY QUESTION is as my experiences have made me cynical,Jaded and mentally old....

but that experienced playboys as well as women can detect very easily.

There needs to be excitement, energy, passion, and confidence there. If it isn't there, you need to be trying to channel it as best you can ("fake it till you make it").

Could someone give some specific scenarios, of how differently a natural might do it vs the depressed. (In a group of ppl I rarely want to talk and one on one, I run out of stuff to talk about) Since like tends to attract like...I usually find myself with people similar to me and my situation and the cycle repeats. As a low energy person how does one become high energy while feeling authentic?

 

[Rakehell]

Could someone give some specific scenarios, of how differently a natural might do it vs the depressed. (In a group of ppl I rarely want to talk and one on one, I run out of stuff to talk about) Since like tends to attract like...I usually find myself with people similar to me and my situation and the cycle repeats. As a low energy person how does one become high energy while feeling authentic?

Not so much like attracts like but, you get back what you put out. You create your reality. Sounds like woo woo magic but its the truth.

If you walk through life thinking everyone has it out for you, you’ll only focus on the bad things that happen to you. The same could be said about someone who believes they’re gods gift to earth.

It’s a self fulfilling prophecy of “the world doesn’t like me” > fixates on tiny negative social reaction because of this belief > reacts to that reaction in a negative way > gets an actual more real negative reaction > belief reinforced > repeat

As for the people in your life. Genuinely happy people do not like being around debbie downers or “energy vampires” (I for one don’t).
Not to say you can’t be depressed or whatever but it’ll reinforce your isolation by putting those emotions on others.

Saying things like “im lonely” “nothing works”, isn’t looking for solutions it’s looking for sympathy. Which takes an emotional tole on the people around you who are largely suffering from their own problems.

My biggest advice would be to think positively and flip whatever it is you may be feeling into a positive light. Don’t look for sympathy look for practical ways to fix whatever it is you think your problem may be.

Act like the ideal man you’d want in your circle and people will treat you as such

That’s really the simplest way of explaining it.

 

[Railer]

In a group of ppl I rarely want to talk and one on one, I run out of stuff to talk about

In my teens I wasn't really interested in what others had to say. Later I realized that literally any piece of information may help in future interactions. Ever since, I practice getting the deepest understanding possible of the other's perspective. A lady tells you what her workday at a hospital is like, how people behave, how it affects her life? Some day you'll encounter a younger version and you can communicate your understanding of her world, without having gone there. "Relatability", they call it: Everything you can gather will up the chances for pleasureable outcomes in future interactions, simply because the other will feel understood.

 

[climbingup]

Isn't the main issue is that women can have sex on demand, most guys outside of the community can't and so when they do meet a girl that's interested they act all needy and f it up? The guys then get bitter and end up going all incelyy.

Outside of the pick up community most guys really don't get laid, the good looking ones will usually get an alright looking gf. But average/ugly non community guys with no charisma, lonely and just a lot of porn.

Tbh if your an alright looking girl in your 20s or even 30s then why not aim for the best guy you can get? Why not sleep around a bit? Guys love to judge girls for doing it but 100 percent if those guys were in the same position, they would do the same and probably even worse lol

Everyone is out to maximise their pleasure and tbh most girls are actually alright. It's not like they go out looking to destroy the self esteem of average/ugly guys, all they want is a bit of personality, leadership, emotions, some fun, genuineness and she will probably give you a chance if she's not in relationship already or not going through a life issue (as long as you're not aiming for some IG model lol). I guess it's just about focusing on the things one can control and making sure to not look like a slob/homeless person

Maybe I'm too optimistic, I just think most guys can turn themselves to at least a 6 or 7 without surgery. Simply by putting the time in to learn about exercise, gym, fashion and nutrition and consistently practicing these things for a long enough time. But of course there are outliers.

 

[Chase]

@Regal Tiger & @Osiris,

Wish I could upvote this more than once cuz this is exactly how I personally feel

EDIT: @Chase makes a good point about suppressing yourself in approaches though (in my opinion/experience as I definitely do it). That's something I've noticed, I definitely don't bother putting too much of myself out there

My recent approach I noticed that she immediately was open to me and just open in general which in turn excited me

So that makes sense in what I've experienced and noticed in myself. I've also noticed that suppressing myself in this way has actually helped me in a lot of other ways with women:
1) online
2) social
3) dance events/class
4) even coffee shops to a degree


Is this something that could be explored more? I wanna make a post on it lol. It's an interesting concept, especially as I noticed I got more dates in the beginning of my mad daygame rush. I was more excited for sure

Could someone give some specific scenarios, of how differently a natural might do it vs the depressed. (In a group of ppl I rarely want to talk and one on one, I run out of stuff to talk about) Since like tends to attract like...I usually find myself with people similar to me and my situation and the cycle repeats. As a low energy person how does one become high energy while feeling authentic?

Suppressing enthusiasm following defeats / to protect the ego from rejection is a pretty common thing to go through.

It can even happen to advanced guys, as @Skills notes.

My solution to it is to think of yourself as an actor when I approach, putting on an initial energetic/charismatic/intrigued performance. Eventually it just becomes a default part of your approach, like the angle you approach from or the eye contact you make or the types of things you say.

I first learned to do it when I found wrinkling my nose while delivering a genuine interest opener made it a lot more likely to work. I'm not the type to go around wrinkling his nose all the time, but if you do do that and the other things that make you come across as if you're really enthused to meet her, it's contagious.

Maybe I'll do a video for the video site on good approach energy vs. regular guy / suppressed energy. It's simple to show but nearly impossible to describe over text.

If you don't want to wait for that though... three of the guys in particular from the charisma breakdown series showcase good, captivating, attractive approach energy worth emulating in cold approach scenarios:

• Russell Brand
• Errol Flynn
• Sean Connery

I don't know if John Wayne could be a day gamer... he's a bit too stoic for that. RDJ is probably a bit too salty/haughty for day game. Either man could be fine in bars. But those three in the list above could for sure day game (and at least two of them, Brand and Flynn, were known day gamers), and if you can open well and consistently in day game, you can hook girls pretty much anywhere.


@climbingup,

Isn't the main issue is that women can have sex on demand, most guys outside of the community can't and so when they do meet a girl that's interested they act all needy and f it up? The guys then get bitter and end up going all incelyy.

Outside of the pick up community most guys really don't get laid, the good looking ones will usually get an alright looking gf. But average/ugly non community guys with no charisma, lonely and just a lot of porn.

Tbh if your an alright looking girl in your 20s or even 30s then why not aim for the best guy you can get? Why not sleep around a bit? Guys love to judge girls for doing it but 100 percent if those guys were in the same position, they would do the same and probably even worse lol

Everyone is out to maximise their pleasure and tbh most girls are actually alright. It's not like they go out looking to destroy the self esteem of average/ugly guys, all they want is a bit of personality, leadership, emotions, some fun, genuineness and she will probably give you a chance if she's not in relationship already or not going through a life issue (as long as you're not aiming for some IG model lol). I guess it's just about focusing on the things one can control and making sure to not look like a slob/homeless person

Maybe I'm too optimistic, I just think most guys can turn themselves to at least a 6 or 7 without surgery. Simply by putting the time in to learn about exercise, gym, fashion and nutrition and consistently practicing these things for a long enough time. But of course there are outliers.

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with the thread?

In this post you have:

• A misunderstanding of the position women are in re: sex
  
  
• A generality of the reason for dateless/sexless men that focuses on one reason and ignores all the others (guys who just freeze up because they don't know what to do; guys who are too shy to do anything; guys who don't realize girls are into them until it's too late; etc.)
  
  
• Generalities of non-community men that are only true of some fraction of them (plenty of non-community men who aren't lookers or charmers but date all right girls and aren't confined to loneliness and porn)
  
  
• A sweeping assumption that all women and all men are sensation seekers (when sensation seeking is only something like 10-15% of the population... other types of personalities have other motivators)
  
  
• A discussion of using gym/clothes/food to become a "6 or 7 without surgery"

I don't want to get into breaking all those down because you don't seem to be asking and it's off the topic of the thread in any event. But posted in the wrong thread perhaps?

Chase

 

[Rain]

I first learned to do it when I found wrinkling my nose while delivering a genuine interest opener made it a lot more likely to work. I'm not the type to go around wrinkling his nose all the time, but if you do do that and the other things that make you come across as if you're really enthused to meet her, it's contagious.

from the article

In the part of the opener where you *pause* (see example above), you wrinkle your nose a little bit -- just like how you might if you were about to sneeze -- and you squint your eyes.

Do you wrinkle your nose like Samantha does from left to right(and her mouth slightly moves as well)
Or is it an up and down thing?

Maybe I'll do a video for the video site on good approach energy vs. regular guy / suppressed energy. It's simple to show but nearly impossible to describe over text.

Yeah videos can be good to show this type of difference. Along with walk as well. Maybe sexy smile vs nonsexy smile? Although thats partly been touched on here where Jess suggested a duechenne smile (showing bottom teeth and crows feet near the eyes) , yet he didn't suggest a sexy smile? Anyway thats shown in that thread with a photo, so maybe the smile one isnt necessary for a video if a photo is enough.

 

[climbingup]

@Regal Tiger & @Osiris,




Suppressing enthusiasm following defeats / to protect the ego from rejection is a pretty common thing to go through.

It can even happen to advanced guys, as @Skills notes.

My solution to it is to think of yourself as an actor when I approach, putting on an initial energetic/charismatic/intrigued performance. Eventually it just becomes a default part of your approach, like the angle you approach from or the eye contact you make or the types of things you say.

I first learned to do it when I found wrinkling my nose while delivering a genuine interest opener made it a lot more likely to work. I'm not the type to go around wrinkling his nose all the time, but if you do do that and the other things that make you come across as if you're really enthused to meet her, it's contagious.

Maybe I'll do a video for the video site on good approach energy vs. regular guy / suppressed energy. It's simple to show but nearly impossible to describe over text.

If you don't want to wait for that though... three of the guys in particular from the charisma breakdown series showcase good, captivating, attractive approach energy worth emulating in cold approach scenarios:

• Russell Brand
• Errol Flynn
• Sean Connery

I don't know if John Wayne could be a day gamer... he's a bit too stoic for that. RDJ is probably a bit too salty/haughty for day game. Either man could be fine in bars. But those three in the list above could for sure day game (and at least two of them, Brand and Flynn, were known day gamers), and if you can open well and consistently in day game, you can hook girls pretty much anywhere.


@climbingup,



I'm not sure what any of this has to do with the thread?

In this post you have:

• A misunderstanding of the position women are in re: sex
  
  
• A generality of the reason for dateless/sexless men that focuses on one reason and ignores all the others (guys who just freeze up because they don't know what to do; guys who are too shy to do anything; guys who don't realize girls are into them until it's too late; etc.)
  
  
• Generalities of non-community men that are only true of some fraction of them (plenty of non-community men who aren't lookers or charmers but date all right girls and aren't confined to loneliness and porn)
  
  
• A sweeping assumption that all women and all men are sensation seekers (when sensation seeking is only something like 10-15% of the population... other types of personalities have other motivators)
  
  
• A discussion of using gym/clothes/food to become a "6 or 7 without surgery"

I don't want to get into breaking all those down because you don't seem to be asking and it's off the topic of the thread in any event. But posted in the wrong thread perhaps?

Chase

Apologies, I am always looking to learn!

I thought about the stuff that made the normal guy frustrated when dating

 

[Skills]

Apologies, I am always looking to learn!

I thought about the stuff that made the normal guy frustrated when dating

Nothing to apologize for this is what the forum is for....

 

[Beck Bass]

Guys struggling with negativity are usually going for "baseline normal" when they approach, where they are a little bit happy/friendly but mostly just normal. But walking up to strangers is not a "normal" thing to do. If you make it seem like you are "just being normal" while doing an abnormal thing, it makes the whole thing even weirder. You're supposed to be excited... interested... engaged... this is not a normal thing; there is some special connection between you and her. You're intrigued in her; you have some passion to meet her. Some playful demeanor you know she is going to respond well to.

Very well put, I myself had nights (and days) where I wasn't really depressed or in a bad mood, but I half assed approached girls because I wasn't feeling all that hot. I still approached, because, well, I'm a sexy guy and I've done well with girls before, but of course the results were subpar, the girls would react even lower energy than me, like I would approach in a really chill way (not in a "cool guy being gentle with a girl that he was just meant to be with eventually" but almost with a lethargic energy lmao) and girls would treat me like a plant (with reason).

One thing @Chase wrote somewhere, and stuck with me, is that women owe you NOTHING. Like many men think they are entitled to have a girl or have sex every now and then, but that's not true, you gotta earn, you got to make a girl think that's a good exchange for her (and hopefully you really make it). So you have to go in with no expectations, those just kill you on arrival.

Also it's important to find some joy in cold approaching, to develop a liking even for the most basic, "inane" type of socializing. Cold approaching (and seduction in general) can be quite the grind, a slow climb, full of ups and downs, so if you're not having fun in field, even when you do some silly mistake and lose a girl, it can be really damaging for your journey, making it a struggle instead of something that is changing your life for the better (which it hopefully is). Again, this comes back to not having a negative mindset and just wanting to succeed, having fun with the little results you have and be glad for the lessons you learn when you fail.

 

[Osiris]

Not so much like attracts like but, you get back what you put out. You create your reality. Sounds like woo woo magic but its the truth.

If you walk through life thinking everyone has it out for you, you’ll only focus on the bad things that happen to you. The same could be said about someone who believes they’re gods gift to earth.

It’s a self fulfilling prophecy of “the world doesn’t like me” > fixates on tiny negative social reaction because of this belief > reacts to that reaction in a negative way > gets an actual more real negative reaction > belief reinforced > repeat

As for the people in your life. Genuinely happy people do not like being around debbie downers or “energy vampires” (I for one don’t).
Not to say you can’t be depressed or whatever but it’ll reinforce your isolation by putting those emotions on others.

Act like the ideal man you’d want in your circle and people will treat you as such

That’s really the simplest way of explaining it.

@Rakehell, This is something I have done intuitively, and I'm sure like Chase said, what I, consider normal, might be considered low/depressing/ uptight to other people. Is the whole depressing/downer/vibe killer because there is a mismatch in energy levels?

Saying things like “im lonely” “nothing works”, isn’t looking for solutions it’s looking for sympathy. Which takes an emotional tole on the people around you who are largely suffering from their own problems.

My biggest advice would be to think positively and flip whatever it is you may be feeling into a positive light. Don’t look for sympathy look for practical ways to fix whatever it is you think your problem may be.

This relates to the victim mentality article Chase penned years back, There is no way to improve anyone continues to see themselves as victims, I have started taking initiative to meet and talk to people, and have noticed that it is usually me who has to initiate contact otherwise people forget about me, is this normal or does it signify maybe these people were just putting up with my presence? If so do I ask them for feedback or do i just move on?