LTR of 6,5 years attraction drop / turning down sex

[letsdoit]

Hey,

So I have been with this girl for 6,5 years.
She is 34, and I am 40.
I am fit, and people say to me all the time I look 10 years younger.
We don't actually live together. We tried for a year or two but decided living apart was better for the time.

I think one major factor was that, at some point, she really started to micromanage me in any little household task, and it drove me insane And also, she started to nag about domestic shit, and then we decided to live separately but still date. So the relationship has gone a little backward trajectory.

I know she can be super caring, cooks food, is affectionate etc. etc.

Right now, I know her attrition has dropped. She still really wants to hang out and actually is complaining that we don't see each other often enough. Recently maybe once a week or sometimes even once in two weeks, but then for a few days straight.

But she also often turns down sex, which has been a turnoff for me, and the main issue besides that she has become a bit of a bitch in household stuff like she doesn't trust me to do anything around the house...

She started to do it more often, even when we were together, lived together, towards the end. I have been trying to play it cool, but I cannot say I haven't been starting to become resentful because of it.

I also have been indeed doing some stuff to turn her off, I am not denying it. Definitely, when we were more together time-wise. But who can say they always keep their frame in an LTR of 7 years? I am sure some can but...

We did make a 3-week trip together though two months ago, when we were together pretty much nonstop. We were with other people, too though, ofc.

I know she can also be very hot for sex, it was like that for 3-4 years. I guess most LTRs are at the start though...

I have tried to talk to her about the lack of sex a few times, and it really hasn't led anywhere or to any change. I know one cannot talk back or negotiate attraction, but I tried just to see where we're at. She has said she feels that we are not together often, and that's why.
Well, I think a little distance should actually increase attraction, not reduce it. And even more, it doesn't seem great when we see each other once in two weeks and even then, she denies sex. It feels pretty shitty when we see each other once a week, I go to her place, have dinner and wine, and then she denies sex. Happened last week.

I have a high sex drive and would like to have sex at least 3-4 times a week.

I know she certainly has a lower sex drive. Not super kinky, not bisexual, etc.

We did have a very hot sex session the last time, but that was like 3 weeks ago. She said/asked again after – "why don't do it more often like this?" "When we don't do it more often, she often forgets she like sex", she told me after that night when a long break in sex occurs.

But she also almost never initiates. Now, really like never. And she super rarely gives head. I go down on her most times when we have sex. I don't deny I would like her to do it more.

I have read Chase's articles here. And I am aware of all the Red Pill stuff. I have even surfed the depressing Deadbedroom Reddits sometimes.

Our sex was great for the first three years at least. Now it has gone downhill.

I know she also has some self-esteem issues.

But she is hot and fit.

I think I have maybe overshared some of my internal struggles, and she doesn't see me as the strong leader she once saw.
I have had some struggles in business and life recently, but she has had even more, and I have tried to listen.

I don't think the relationship control is in her hands. I still have it. But she has been now playing the sex card for taking control.
I think she doesn't feel too secure.
Then again when I tried to maybe make it more secure for her, I feel sex dried up even more.

I am already lifting and fit, and I am working to be more. (Not for her, for myself).
I make way more money than her. We're both not super well off, but I still make way more.
And I am kinda known and have status in my area of life. I have built some successful ventures.
I have been pretty good to her in providing areas too, in my way.
I have friends outside of her circles, many interest and hobbies etc.
Recently I just have had less time for that because of work.

I am certainly a bit rusty in picking up girls and seduction, as I haven't picked up new girls for a while.

Is the only way to go – just stop initiating sex at all (I am already stopped initiating to meet up, that's on her now). be nice but scarce.
Don't be at all resentful. And start to hit on new women. Not having dates or sex (yet), but just flirting publicly. See if a bit of pre-selection or competition anxiety would change anything. I tried that at some point though, and she was pretty upset about it, and not in a very good way.

Or should I just plain old say that I need to have sex and I will have it with someone? And then go out and have it?

And see if the LTR can survive being nonmonogamous.
Pretty sure it won't, as this is not a good place right now from where to take the relationship to non-monogamy.
And I know she has tried it with someone in the past and didn't like it, and she can be pretty jealous.
I think I also can be in certain situations. At least with the proper LTR. When it's just plates I don't care much.

Any other tips?

 

[TestY]

I'm by no means an expert, so take my views with a grain of salt.

Responsibility and masculinity
I'd focus on how you approach this mentally. A first step imo. would be to have an attitude of "Extreme ownership", as per Jocko Willinck and others. In other words, you are freed from resentment stemming from her behavior. And you will not implicitly feel that she owes you anything. From there you could work on practicing and re-introducing more masculine behavior.

Tony Robbins and passionate relationships
Another approach could be to look towards Tony Robbins relationship advice - that's more of a "positive dominance" style, where passion and connection are important, all the while staying independent and strong.

Inner game
You could also play with the idea of her behavior as a mirror of your self-image. Do you like and respect yourself? Self-hypnosis can be a powerful tool for updating your self-image.

 

[Will_V]

Sounds to me like she's unhappy with the general state of the relationship and where it is/is headed. Maybe she wants commitment, kids, the usual stuff.

Something I've noticed is that there is a different way that women evaluate your dominance in different parts of a relationship. In the beginning, if you are enjoying yourself and doing the things you want and generally moving up in the world, and even not paying much attention to her, she evaluates you as being in control of things and therefore dominant and is she happy to invest and suck your cock and be the one to convince you she should come on board.

But as the relationship develops, she adds into her evaluation the way you treat the relationship itself, because by now it is a part of your life, something you have invested time and energy into over a long period of time. And if you are not advancing it and building it the way she expects, she treats you as if you are someone who has neglected some important part of their life such as their career or happiness. She treats you as someone who has failed a responsibility, and who has failed to live up to the things they have professed to value. And this is when she starts treating you as if you are weak, pushing and testing. It is then no longer enough to be strong in a self-reliant kind of way, the same way that someone who has become a leader of a community can no longer act like a lone cowboy and impress everyone.

Regarding denying sex, this is something I believe women do not consciously do as a way to manipulate you, but as a knee-jerk reaction to a feeling that she is with someone who somehow isn't in control. Sex for women is to some extent an assignment of responsibility, especially in a relationship where a lot of feelings are involved. And the same way that you wouldn't put yourself in the hands of a leader who seems unable to deal with their responsibilities in any circumstance that could cost you, she recoils against the idea herself.

Personally, I don't believe that the idea of running relationships the way redpillers talk about (where you just keep her at arms length forever and she always stays wet for you) is anything more than a fantasy, really. Women are not so stupid as to fail to understand the long term trajectory of things. At some point she has to feel some sense of security or it becomes harder and harder for her to be intimate. There are ways to keep things exciting, some more acceptable than others, but neglecting to advance the relationship over the term of multiple years is not one of them.

 

[StrayDog]

There are ways to keep things exciting, some more acceptable than others, but neglecting to advance the relationship over the term of multiple years is not one of them.

Also, advancing things forward by moving in together, then taking a step back by moving out (as OP did with his GF) doesn't help at all. It basically turns a relationship with forward momentum into a "what exactly are we doing here" situationship. They have now established that they don't really live well together, but they are still dating. Where could this relationship possibly head at this point? Are they just going to meet up a few times a week for the same ol routine indefinitely until the end of life? Is a half baked potato very appetizing? How long can it just sit there, waiting for someone to turn it into a tasty meal, before it just dries up or gets moldy.

 

[Skills]

Hey,

So I have been with this girl for 6,5 years.
She is 34, and I am 40.
I am fit, and people say to me all the time I look 10 years younger.
We don't actually live together. We tried for a year or two but decided living apart was better for the time.

I think one major factor was that, at some point, she really started to micromanage me in any little household task, and it drove me insane And also, she started to nag about domestic shit, and then we decided to live separately but still date. So the relationship has gone a little backward trajectory.

I know she can be super caring, cooks food, is affectionate etc. etc.

Right now, I know her attrition has dropped. She still really wants to hang out and actually is complaining that we don't see each other often enough. Recently maybe once a week or sometimes even once in two weeks, but then for a few days straight.

But she also often turns down sex, which has been a turnoff for me, and the main issue besides that she has become a bit of a bitch in household stuff like she doesn't trust me to do anything around the house...

She started to do it more often, even when we were together, lived together, towards the end. I have been trying to play it cool, but I cannot say I haven't been starting to become resentful because of it.

I also have been indeed doing some stuff to turn her off, I am not denying it. Definitely, when we were more together time-wise. But who can say they always keep their frame in an LTR of 7 years? I am sure some can but...

We did make a 3-week trip together though two months ago, when we were together pretty much nonstop. We were with other people, too though, ofc.

I know she can also be very hot for sex, it was like that for 3-4 years. I guess most LTRs are at the start though...

I have tried to talk to her about the lack of sex a few times, and it really hasn't led anywhere or to any change. I know one cannot talk back or negotiate attraction, but I tried just to see where we're at. She has said she feels that we are not together often, and that's why.
Well, I think a little distance should actually increase attraction, not reduce it. And even more, it doesn't seem great when we see each other once in two weeks and even then, she denies sex. It feels pretty shitty when we see each other once a week, I go to her place, have dinner and wine, and then she denies sex. Happened last week.

I have a high sex drive and would like to have sex at least 3-4 times a week.

I know she certainly has a lower sex drive. Not super kinky, not bisexual, etc.

We did have a very hot sex session the last time, but that was like 3 weeks ago. She said/asked again after – "why don't do it more often like this?" "When we don't do it more often, she often forgets she like sex", she told me after that night when a long break in sex occurs.

But she also almost never initiates. Now, really like never. And she super rarely gives head. I go down on her most times when we have sex. I don't deny I would like her to do it more.

I have read Chase's articles here. And I am aware of all the Red Pill stuff. I have even surfed the depressing Deadbedroom Reddits sometimes.

Our sex was great for the first three years at least. Now it has gone downhill.

I know she also has some self-esteem issues.

But she is hot and fit.

I think I have maybe overshared some of my internal struggles, and she doesn't see me as the strong leader she once saw.
I have had some struggles in business and life recently, but she has had even more, and I have tried to listen.

I don't think the relationship control is in her hands. I still have it. But she has been now playing the sex card for taking control.
I think she doesn't feel too secure.
Then again when I tried to maybe make it more secure for her, I feel sex dried up even more.

I am already lifting and fit, and I am working to be more. (Not for her, for myself).
I make way more money than her. We're both not super well off, but I still make way more.
And I am kinda known and have status in my area of life. I have built some successful ventures.
I have been pretty good to her in providing areas too, in my way.
I have friends outside of her circles, many interest and hobbies etc.
Recently I just have had less time for that because of work.

I am certainly a bit rusty in picking up girls and seduction, as I haven't picked up new girls for a while.

Is the only way to go – just stop initiating sex at all (I am already stopped initiating to meet up, that's on her now). be nice but scarce.
Don't be at all resentful. And start to hit on new women. Not having dates or sex (yet), but just flirting publicly. See if a bit of pre-selection or competition anxiety would change anything. I tried that at some point though, and she was pretty upset about it, and not in a very good way.

Or should I just plain old say that I need to have sex and I will have it with someone? And then go out and have it?

And see if the LTR can survive being nonmonogamous.
Pretty sure it won't, as this is not a good place right now from where to take the relationship to non-monogamy.
And I know she has tried it with someone in the past and didn't like it, and she can be pretty jealous.
I think I also can be in certain situations. At least with the proper LTR. When it's just plates I don't care much.

Any other tips?

This is common with ltrs after certain period some women just put you in what i call a maintenance plan in which they give u sex 1 a week or once every 2 weeks enpugh for you no to leave and stick around...ultimatoms dont work, sorry to tell you this but it wont get better time to be out....

 

[POB]

Total guess, but here it goes: she wants to have kids, but don't see you as a potential father.
(she is entering her last fertile years after all.)

Is the only way to go – just stop initiating sex at all (I am already stopped initiating to meet up, that's on her now). be nice but scarce.
Don't be at all resentful. And start to hit on new women. Not having dates or sex (yet), but just flirting publicly. See if a bit of pre-selection or competition anxiety would change anything. I tried that at some point though, and she was pretty upset about it, and not in a very good way.

I would def start there.
Just calibrate a bit to make her less jealous

Or should I just plain old say that I need to have sex and I will have it with someone? And then go out and have it?

Give it more time before you push this button.
But definitely start to be more open to this idea.
And do not push back if other women get interested in you.

And see if the LTR can survive being nonmonogamous.

It can...but at this point the odds are low.
Usually open works better when it's decided from the get go.
You set it, she accepst it, and you dictate most of the terms you both have to follow.

 

[letsdoit]

Thank you, guys, for all your input.

Well, the moving apart thing wasn't all about feelings; there were some logistics involved, as I lived there at that apartment before her, and she really didn't have that much space there. And she had her own place that she occasionally used anyway. She just kind of moved back there. She still kept many of her things at my place until a few weeks ago, when I needed to give away the apartment.

It was fun to live together for a few years, indeed; it's just at some point, she started to get on my nerves a bit, and we had some fights or arguments – but her moving back to her place – we always took it as a logistical step before we get a bigger home from scratch together.
I certainly have to take some ownership of some crappy things I must have done that she started to test and act up back then. And that I didn't take some of those tests well.

We've always talked about getting our permanent place soon... When we would buy instead of rent.
Soon just took a while

Well, now I did, it's going to take until fall when it's ready, but in the end, not sure if we both will move there, most likely not... as it's not as big as we wanted.

Well, I would be into it if she would behave.

She denies it, but it seems recently, I get on her nerves a bit. Like "I sleep too loud, talk too loud, do things wrong" kinda way.

Not all the time of course. But...

And at the same time, she wants to hang out and complains we're not doing it as often as she would like...

I know that searching for a place to purchase and all the side stuff to get the finances together was a pretty big headache for a long time, and she participated a little to help to look for some places, but I didn't really feel she was all in for it. She didn't really find time to look for many of the apartments or houses that I found etc. She did come to check out a bunch of places, though was often critical of them.

It's also that she pushed for a bigger place but didn't have any money to contribute.

She didn't really get by day-by-day finances-wise at some point. Been supporting her quite a. lot. Trips and all. She's an artist and you know how that is sometimes. Now it's better with a steady job. Not great but at least steady.

She has talked about a kid a bit. At the beginning of the relationship, I was reluctant at first. I just wasn't at that place. And then, after that, she said she was afraid to bring it up again. I could be into the idea now, but if it were with her, I feel that we would need to solve a ton of things before going on that route. We, as a team, are not ready for parenthood ATM. Even though we are not so young, and yeah, if we had a kid, it would need to be in the next few years now. She was still really into the idea a few months ago when we played with it.

I actually feel the sex has dried up more when I have been talking about having our own proper home and a kid with her for the past year or so. I cannot make up my mind if she felt too secure then or not secure enough. Like maybe she felt it was secure now, but too late or something?

I feel she wants it, but I also think it hasn't been a sexual turn-on for her, indeed.

It could be, yeah, that I have turned her off enough, that she doubts subconsciously if I am the one to make it all with.
She says otherwise, though.

I didn't mean to say the hardcore RedPill stuff works in long LTRs; I just wanted to share with one quick sentence that I am aware of the many intersexual dynamics that might be going on. I don't think keeping my partner at arm's length for years is a satisfying life for connections for either of the parties involved.

We've had our better times when we were much closer.

Yeah, I don't think nonmonogamy would work here. At least in this case and in this moment. Maybe down the road, if we could fix the relationship somehow before it.

Are there any other scenarios or options?

Some therapy? Solo + couples?

Finding a therapist who would understand men's side of the issues can be a hit or miss. I quite like the approach of https://adamlanesmith.com/

Or should I break up and cut my losses? Not waste more time...

I don't think she wants to break up. But maybe I should ask...

The last time she denied sex the previous week, I asked what was wrong or up, and she said something was going on in his head. I smiled and said, "it's a bit of a strange answer", and I just left. Not rushed, I played it cool, and played with the cat on my way out. It was late anyway.

She had sent me several messages later that I didn't look at and she had deleted them by morning, trying to say it was something stupid about the cat. I know it wasn't as she would not have deleted them.

I haven't seen her since; we've texted a bit about random stuff.

I hate to be the one to have to ask for THE TALK (again) but I also don't wanna play games.

Should I just say something along the lines that it seems we're both unhappy with our current relationship/situationship and try to get out of her - how she sees she would want things to go (or NOT).

And if I don't see any excitement to get things better, offer to break up or have a break?

We have a couple of fun things scheduled for this weekend and the next. Thinking if we should do them 1st or go into deep shit before that...

 

[Will_V]

Well first of all I think it'd be a good idea to put a pause on any future plans with this woman while you try to figure things out. You do not want to go barrelling forward in this fog of confusion about what she's thinking or wanting.

The worst thing to do and what a lot of guys in LTRs do wrong is to advance the relationship (getting a house, having a kid, etc) when things get bad, hoping more investment fixes things. Even if the problem started off because of lack of investment, fixing it imo requires only a very specific type of investment and any other kind doesn't work and just makes things worse. And that investment is communication/quality time/sex. If investing in that area is not enough, if you cannot improve the personal bond on its own, then in my opinion everything else is a waste of time.

In LTRs, communication is absolutely important, more important than anything else really. Both in terms of the content and strength of your frame, and how easily you both communicate and open up with eachother over problems. In this relationship it seems like communication is very shaky and often non-existent. I believe you should be the one to go and have a talk with her about things - a leader always goes and deals with problems with a follower, not the other way around - but not in terms of any future plans, instead in terms of what you don't like right now about how she presently behaves and how unsatisfied you are with the time you spend together. If you press her hard enough on this, she will bring up or make it clear what the problem is whether it's past, present or future.

Frankly, there are some red flags in there that you would do well to keep an eye on.

She denies it, but it seems recently, I get on her nerves a bit. Like "I sleep too loud, talk too loud, do things wrong" kinda way.

If she was living with you all the time, this would probably be mostly benign. But when she feels genuine desire she isn't worrying about things like this on the infrequent occasions you meet up, in fact she tends to fall in love with all your quirks whatever they might be.

On the opposite side of things, something I've come to understand is that when a woman has a new man, she suddenly feels the need to distance herself from the things that in some way were markers of her previous man's presence around her, as a way to free up her intimacy with someone else. So the things that before were 'cute' and 'adorable' become annoying, frustrating and even intimidating. Not saying that's definitely the case here, but something to look out for given how much time she spends away from you.

And at the same time, she wants to hang out and complains we're not doing it as often as she would like...

This is something women always say, personally I don't put much credence into it as a proof of interest or investment, especially when the time you do spend together is so unsatisfactory.

I know that searching for a place to purchase and all the side stuff to get the finances together was a pretty big headache for a long time, and she participated a little to help to look for some places, but I didn't really feel she was all in for it. She didn't really find time to look for many of the apartments or houses that I found etc. She did come to check out a bunch of places, though was often critical of them.

It's also that she pushed for a bigger place but didn't have any money to contribute.

She didn't really get by day-by-day finances-wise at some point. Been supporting her quite a. lot. Trips and all. She's an artist and you know how that is sometimes. Now it's better with a steady job. Not great but at least steady.

This is another red flag. She should be highly invested in this if it's something she really wants, and her attitude shows a lack of respect.

She has talked about a kid a bit. At the beginning of the relationship, I was reluctant at first. I just wasn't at that place. And then, after that, she said she was afraid to bring it up again. I could be into the idea now, but if it were with her, I feel that we would need to solve a ton of things before going on that route. We, as a team, are not ready for parenthood ATM. Even though we are not so young, and yeah, if we had a kid, it would need to be in the next few years now. She was still really into the idea a few months ago when we played with it.

OK she wants a kid, but how much of a wife would she make at this point?

I actually feel the sex has dried up more when I have been talking about having our own proper home and a kid with her for the past year or so. I cannot make up my mind if she felt too secure then or not secure enough. Like maybe she felt it was secure now, but too late or something?

More red flags. Sounds a bit like one foot in and one foot out.

It could be, yeah, that I have turned her off enough, that she doubts subconsciously if I am the one to make it all with.
She says otherwise, though.

Seems likely.

She had sent me several messages later that I didn't look at and she had deleted them by morning, trying to say it was something stupid about the cat. I know it wasn't as she would not have deleted them.

I haven't seen her since; we've texted a bit about random stuff.

I hate to be the one to have to ask for THE TALK (again) but I also don't wanna play games.

It's clear she's not going to sort this out unless you do. So do you want to drag this on for longer or sort it out even if it means an unpleasant conversation? Again it doesn't mean that you go in with any future plans, but (in my experience) what works best is focusing on the present dissatisfactions, pressing hard and not letting go over a period of weeks or months. A woman will not behave well for long if there's a serious issue on her mind that is unresolved, since her primary means of influence is using her behavior to control your emotions.

For example toward the end of my last relationship, my girl started not wanting sex. I put up with it for a week or two in case it was a temporary thing, but eventually I simply said something like 'Sex is something I value a lot, and I think two people who really love eachother are going to be rolling around in the sheets all the time. Don't you think so?' and since she couldn't really disagree with the statement she was forced to start bringing up the real reasons. That's the best way to go into these things imo - call out a bad behaviour, imply that the bad behaviour is at odds with something fundamental in the relationship, and let that sit for a while without getting emotionally invested. She'll quickly feel pressure to resolve all the implications by clarifying things.

 

[Chase]

@letsdoit,

I started writing a response here, but figured it'd work better as an article.

Here's my full response to your situation:

Why Women Break Up with Guys After Years of Dating

Despite years in a happy, satisfying relationship, women sometimes start turning resentful and pulling away. What causes this – and can it be reversed? Contents 1. An LTR Is a Girlfriend Lease 2. Understanding Lease Periods 3. How to Get It Back How It Was 4. 3 Dubious “Get It Back” Strategies...

www.girlschase.com

Cheers,
Chase

 

[Skills]

Thank you, guys, for all your input.

Well, the moving apart thing wasn't all about feelings; there were some logistics involved, as I lived there at that apartment before her, and she really didn't have that much space there. And she had her own place that she occasionally used anyway. She just kind of moved back there. She still kept many of her things at my place until a few weeks ago, when I needed to give away the apartment.

It was fun to live together for a few years, indeed; it's just at some point, she started to get on my nerves a bit, and we had some fights or arguments – but her moving back to her place – we always took it as a logistical step before we get a bigger home from scratch together.
I certainly have to take some ownership of some crappy things I must have done that she started to test and act up back then. And that I didn't take some of those tests well.

We've always talked about getting our permanent place soon... When we would buy instead of rent.
Soon just took a while

Well, now I did, it's going to take until fall when it's ready, but in the end, not sure if we both will move there, most likely not... as it's not as big as we wanted.

Well, I would be into it if she would behave.

She denies it, but it seems recently, I get on her nerves a bit. Like "I sleep too loud, talk too loud, do things wrong" kinda way.

Not all the time of course. But...

And at the same time, she wants to hang out and complains we're not doing it as often as she would like...

I know that searching for a place to purchase and all the side stuff to get the finances together was a pretty big headache for a long time, and she participated a little to help to look for some places, but I didn't really feel she was all in for it. She didn't really find time to look for many of the apartments or houses that I found etc. She did come to check out a bunch of places, though was often critical of them.

It's also that she pushed for a bigger place but didn't have any money to contribute.

She didn't really get by day-by-day finances-wise at some point. Been supporting her quite a. lot. Trips and all. She's an artist and you know how that is sometimes. Now it's better with a steady job. Not great but at least steady.

She has talked about a kid a bit. At the beginning of the relationship, I was reluctant at first. I just wasn't at that place. And then, after that, she said she was afraid to bring it up again. I could be into the idea now, but if it were with her, I feel that we would need to solve a ton of things before going on that route. We, as a team, are not ready for parenthood ATM. Even though we are not so young, and yeah, if we had a kid, it would need to be in the next few years now. She was still really into the idea a few months ago when we played with it.

I actually feel the sex has dried up more when I have been talking about having our own proper home and a kid with her for the past year or so. I cannot make up my mind if she felt too secure then or not secure enough. Like maybe she felt it was secure now, but too late or something?

I feel she wants it, but I also think it hasn't been a sexual turn-on for her, indeed.

It could be, yeah, that I have turned her off enough, that she doubts subconsciously if I am the one to make it all with.
She says otherwise, though.

I didn't mean to say the hardcore RedPill stuff works in long LTRs; I just wanted to share with one quick sentence that I am aware of the many intersexual dynamics that might be going on. I don't think keeping my partner at arm's length for years is a satisfying life for connections for either of the parties involved.

We've had our better times when we were much closer.

Yeah, I don't think nonmonogamy would work here. At least in this case and in this moment. Maybe down the road, if we could fix the relationship somehow before it.

Are there any other scenarios or options?

Some therapy? Solo + couples?

Finding a therapist who would understand men's side of the issues can be a hit or miss. I quite like the approach of https://adamlanesmith.com/

Or should I break up and cut my losses? Not waste more time...

I don't think she wants to break up. But maybe I should ask...

The last time she denied sex the previous week, I asked what was wrong or up, and she said something was going on in his head. I smiled and said, "it's a bit of a strange answer", and I just left. Not rushed, I played it cool, and played with the cat on my way out. It was late anyway.

She had sent me several messages later that I didn't look at and she had deleted them by morning, trying to say it was something stupid about the cat. I know it wasn't as she would not have deleted them.

I haven't seen her since; we've texted a bit about random stuff.

I hate to be the one to have to ask for THE TALK (again) but I also don't wanna play games.

Should I just say something along the lines that it seems we're both unhappy with our current relationship/situationship and try to get out of her - how she sees she would want things to go (or NOT).

And if I don't see any excitement to get things better, offer to break up or have a break?

We have a couple of fun things scheduled for this weekend and the next. Thinking if we should do them 1st or go into deep shit before that...

dude don't buy a place together, jesus, not now please... Again is time to be out... All that nitpicking on things that never bother her, now bothering her is what happens at this stage... Your self blame another symptom that happens on the break up or about to be a break up stage... The theraphy and try to fix it pre break up symptom.... too many including sex rationing... time to be out.... simple...

 

[Skills]

@letsdoit,

I started writing a response here, but figured it'd work better as an article.

Here's my full response to your situation:

Why Women Break Up with Guys After Years of Dating

Despite years in a happy, satisfying relationship, women sometimes start turning resentful and pulling away. What causes this – and can it be reversed? Contents 1. An LTR Is a Girlfriend Lease 2. Understanding Lease Periods 3. How to Get It Back How It Was 4. 3 Dubious “Get It Back” Strategies...

www.girlschase.com

Cheers,
Chase

That article was good, there are just sone ways to extend that u left out for example:

- promise ring pre engagement to delay
-engagement ring after to delay
-new place together
-new dog or animal
- new succesful job
-new looks transformation
-new status

This can extend somewhat stuff also there are some darker brainwashing stuff too... but exellent article...

 

[Chase]

That article was good, there are just sone ways to extend that u left out for example:

- promise ring pre engagement to delay
-engagement ring after to delay
-new place together
-new dog or animal
- new succesful job
-new looks transformation
-new status

This can extend somewhat stuff also there are some darker brainwashing stuff too... but exellent article...

@Skills, good list.

I had a buddy use a few of these years back. He moved in with the girl... but then he knocked her up and made her get an abortion. She was really unhappy about it. After that he bought her a dog. Changed to nicer apartments a few times.

I was staying in their other bedroom for a while. He was away on business a lot. I couldn't avoid hearing all the drama... she'd be calling him over Skype complaining every day, suspecting he was cheating on her while away, etc. Started yelling about the dog (which she definitely did get attached to) one day, saying, "I know what you're trying to do!"

Anyway, those tactics extended it for a bit. She eventually got fed up anyway and the delay tactics stopped working. But that probably prolonged the end by a good year-and-a-half.

The dark side brainwashing / delay tactics really can drag it out sometimes... there are women in the comment section of this article talking about it (e.g., the women saying "I'm a 9 and a 12"):

50 Ways Not To Be A Mother... - Gateway Women

Although many people who don’t know our story may imagine that we either actively chose not to have children or couldn’t have them due to infertility, there are many ways to end up childless without actively choosing it: Being single and unable to find a suitable relationship from your...

gateway-women.com

That's basically "if you want to hold onto a woman while driving her off her goals and blocking her from having what she wants in life, do this"... mostly needy guys or control freaks doing this, I assume. That's another reason why you want to have game skills & abundance... to not get stuck playing the villain role because you're too needy to change girls or find a chick with aligned life goals to yours (man, aligned life goals are so important for non-miserable LTRs... not even kidding. I'm going to write another post on this soon).

Chase

 

[Skills]

@Skills, good list.

I had a buddy use a few of these years back. He moved in with the girl... but then he knocked her up and made her get an abortion. She was really unhappy about it. After that he bought her a dog. Changed to nicer apartments a few times.

I was staying in their other bedroom for a while. He was away on business a lot. I couldn't avoid hearing all the drama... she'd be calling him over Skype complaining every day, suspecting he was cheating on her while away, etc. Started yelling about the dog (which she definitely did get attached to) one day, saying, "I know what you're trying to do!"

Anyway, those tactics extended it for a bit. She eventually got fed up anyway and the delay tactics stopped working. But that probably prolonged the end by a good year-and-a-half.

The dark side brainwashing / delay tactics really can drag it out sometimes... there are women in the comment section of this article talking about it (e.g., the women saying "I'm a 9 and a 12"):

50 Ways Not To Be A Mother... - Gateway Women

Although many people who don’t know our story may imagine that we either actively chose not to have children or couldn’t have them due to infertility, there are many ways to end up childless without actively choosing it: Being single and unable to find a suitable relationship from your...

gateway-women.com

That's basically "if you want to hold onto a woman while driving her off her goals and blocking her from having what she wants in life, do this"... mostly needy guys or control freaks doing this, I assume. That's another reason why you want to have game skills & abundance... to not get stuck playing the villain role because you're too needy to change girls or find a chick with aligned life goals to yours (man, aligned life goals are so important for non-miserable LTRs... not even kidding. I'm going to write another post on this soon).

Chase

nah! the typical darker tactics i just don't want to discuss and i obviously don't do them (for me is not seduction and not leaving women better than you found them) so i did not want to discuss (does not align with our mission as seducers)..... But destroying her self esteem that she knows you are the best she will get she is nothing with out you psychological destruction, isolating her from friends and family, drugs,making her financial dependent on you, threat of leaking videos or private info that could ruin in..... (really dark shit! i personally never done it, seen it from naturals, a lot of serial killers do some of this)...

 

[POB]

nah! the typical darker tactics i just don't want to discuss and i obviously don't do them (for me is not seduction and not leaving women better than you found them) so i did not want to discuss (does not align with our mission as seducers)..... But destroying her self esteem that she knows you are the best she will get she is nothing with out you psychological destruction, isolating her from friends and family, drugs,making her financial dependent on you, threat of leaking videos or private info that could ruin in..... (really dark shit! i personally never done it, seen it from naturals, a lot of serial killers do some of this)...

R. Kelly did this.
All his money couldn't save him from spending 20+ years in jail.
It takes only one girl to destroy a house of cards.

 

[DarkKnight]

Man, it sure saves up a lot of energy spent on dissonance when a man understands how changeable women can be.

 

[Chase]

There was an old running gag on the '90s sitcom Spin City with David Spade doing that to his hottie girlfriend (or fiancée? I can't remember now).

Everyone could never figure out why this SHB was with this short, weird, whiny-voiced loser-y guy, but he just spent all this time beating her self-esteem down, telling her he was the best she could get, and she should be so grateful to be with him.

I forget how it ended... lol... but it was a comedy.

Anyway, yeah. That stuff is dark.

Been reading a lot about psychological health vs. unhealth lately. The stuff people get into, and do to others, when they get psychologically unwell is pretty atrocious...

 

[letsdoit]

Alright. Fair feedback and conclusion. And wow, a whole article, @Chase

Yeah, it had dragged out surely. There were also other circumstances I didn't mention here, so it's not so clear-cut. But still yeah. I did want to get a new house and potentially together already almost 2 years ago. It was just a long process to finally get it. And a difficult one where she seemed to get tired. She didn't seem super enthusiastic anymore either
And I did tell her I would like to have a kid also a year ago. I guess too late. Although at the time she was happy to hear it.

She was getting progressively more bitchy and nagging about certain things and I guess already in auto-rejection and disassociating, but still kept it going another year +?

She is insecure and I guess didn't have many other very viable options. Although she is pretty.
She kind of upgraded a bit her work-life and became a bit more confident, started to get more romantic offers and now broke off with me.

I think that when I didn't fully provide and commit, I continued to be a challenge. When I did soften about those things, I wasn't so much of a challenge anymore. And another thing was that I didn't know how to properly diffuse arguments.

Before that for months, she started to party hard ( I guess looking also to monkey branch), In the end, she was very nice to me but I think she needed to get some favours from me before the break-up and maybe she was worried that I would not give them to her otherwise. (I did give them, I was not a jerk and it didn't cost me anything). Then she totally pulled away and we broke up a month ago. She did accuse me out of the blue after the breakup about a time around 6 years ago when I said I wasn't sure about having children. That hurt. Yeah, I agree that hurt her and was not a good thing to hear for her. I was at a different stage of my life. I did maybe sabotage the LTR with some things as I maybe had some questionable influences in the beginning and focused on my mission and elsewhere. But she never brought it up during the relationship. Like never.

She still wasn't 100% sure about breaking up. But when she said she didn't know about us any more and mentioned she gets interest from elsewhere (at first she phrased it just was just general), I replied, fine then let's break up and walked away. She already called me the next day that she didn't want to break up. So she was a bit back and forth. She called me a lot and several times saying she wanted to work it out and work on us, and then not. But she had already some new dude lined up I guess. I don't know anything about who that dude is, how serious it is, if it's ongoing, or what level. Can be of course limerance stage now.

I think equally (or more) the breakup right now was because I got too crazy about work this summer, too worried about finances, lost my frame a bit, and neglected myself, her, and my health a bit. So she lost attraction.

I think it was more about that, than having kids, a new place, and marriage.

As she might have known that I was softening up about all those.

But yeah she had built up all that resentment inside of her already about those 3 things I guess for years (crazy), never communicating it and it just all mashed together and came out.

And it seems it was too late then.

The main problem why I couldn't commit more was because she just was acting shitty quite often about certain things, and so I wanted her to act nice, and then I would have done those commitments earlier. And she didn't know how to communicate her needs. And I didn't have the right tools to get the right answers out of her either. I had tried to talk with her a bunch of times during the LTR about issues, but I didn't get right things out of her or I was dumb enough to not get the subtle hints.

Maybe therapy would have helped if it would have been months ago. Or ideally at least a year ago. I proposed it but it was already too late, as the break-up process had begun. It probably would have been still possible timeline-wise, if she would have not got her eyes on another dude by then.

She now asked to go to therapy out of the blue a few weeks after the breakup. But it seems she wants to kind of do it to have a clear ending and closure for the relationship. Not to salvage anything. Seems like a train wreck for me. I know now what all went wrong and I feel enough remorse already. The breakup was already quite shitty and also a bit dragged out, for me. I'd been sick with flu for a few weeks just before that and before that very busy with work. So I didn't really see/feel properly her final monkey branching movements and final disconnecting.
Seems like an opening Pandora Box and an emotional rollercoaster to go therapy to talk about it.
I guess she wants now a clear conscience to move forward. As she has been a bit mean to me during/after a breakup.
Just accusing me of stuff. Although we are not in mean terms now.
There has not been a lot of communication between us but a bit after it.

Break-up was a month ago. At first, she wasn't ever sure. So the initial breakup felt like a weird event. I walked away and she was second-guessing it already the next day, calling me, she wanted to work it out, so I fell for it and then it was a bit back-and-forth with a few phone calls and texts, without me knowing there was another guy's interest. Kinda regret that shit now for being the simp and blind .

Anything else I can do?

I am already dating other women (casually). Working out, planning new things and changes in my life, and doing my ongoing projects.
On a path to become me 2.0. Shit is not easy of course at this stage yet.

I have integrated her into my friend group (7 years, duh) so there is no completely avoiding her. I also don't want to ditch half of my close social circle. So I know I will see her anyhow sooner or later. Also, we are in no mean terms. I'm probably fine seeing her. But I would not prefer seeing her with the new dude. Not yet at least.

She has tried to call me again a few times for closure.

Therapy now seems crazy. I guess I could meet up with her if she really pushes.
But she probably gets more out of it than me.

I am not sure if I dodged a bullet or if should I feel remorse (nothing I can do anyhow at this point I guess).
As her occasional shitty behavior had been going on for a long while and I am not sure if my noncommitment was the main cause of it or it's also her character. I think it could be both. Either way, her occasional shitty behavior didn't make me want to commit more
And it wasn't bad enough to dump her either. Although I had considered it a few times.
Of course, I as a man and leader, have to take responsibility, so in the end, it's all my fault.

But her tantrums and communication issues didn't help.
Also, 7th year is a difficult year, I hear. in LTRs. I cannot say that we would have not broken up by now, even if I got her pregnant the 1st year and married her. Also, she parties and drinks too much still. I guess it's also a kind of symptom of how unhappy she felt or how free she feels now.
But it had been going on for a while. When we got together we both did it. I wanted to slow down with it, now, but she didn't. I guess she has been already on her way out for a long while. She said the realization happened recently but I think just now the right (in her eyes) candidate showed up to replace me.

But I have already wasted waaaaay too much on her, most of my precious 30s. I'm gonna try to not waste any more seconds.

Ah well, "Let the other guy overbid my used merchandise". If I would quote Orion Taraban.

 

[POB]

Cut contact
Cut social media
Don't answer anything from her for at least 6 months (more is better)
Avoid common friends....cut them too if needed

You are doing yourself no favors keeping her on the loop
From now on, focus on new women only

 

[letsdoit]

yeah.

 

[Chad Tyrone]

I'm going to write another post on this soon).

Bump