Misc questions re dating

[Samson84]

Hi there. As you may have seen from a couple of other posts, I'm starting back in the world of dating as a 43-yr-old guy who probably looks good on paper and can do well on first impressions but needs more experience in the whole process.

People you are curious to go on a date with but live far away. I've met a few people online or on Tinder etc. who live a couple of hours or more from me. I'm interested to go on a date with them, and it's all good experience. Plus if it goes badly you never have to see them again! But how is this best managed? Like, should I offer to go to their town and pick them up; or invite them to my town so we can go back to my place after; or arrange to meet half way but then there is nowhere to go after a good night? Thoughts on this welcome.

People who like you a lot, but you are only somewhat interested. One or two women I've approached have acted like they are shocked I have asked them if they would like to go on a date. As if they thought I was out of their league. This spooks me somewhat. What do you do when you're with someone who is a little bit too keen? They might be expecting more than you are offering at an early stage.

After you've had sex and they want to keep seeing you. Suppose you have a date with someone and sleep with them, and it's ok, but you're like, meh. But after you've been to bed they are expecting a relationship or they want to see you again etc. I don't want to get a reputation for being a douchebag or the kind of guy who is taking advantage etc. Especially as I may want to date one of their friends or acquaintances down the road. So how do you manage expectations, so that you can escalate towards a relationship if that seems good, or fade things out while being remembered fondly rather than as a user?

Bad sex experiences. What about when you get to bed with someone and it doesn't go well, for whatever reason, in the bedroom. This hasn't happened to me in practice, so it's more of a fear, but I guess statistically it must happen that some day you don't get it up, or you go down on her and she smells bad, or you mistime things or whatever. How do you then either rescue the experience or escape with your esteem intact?

That's all for now. Thanks!

 

[Seppuku]

Hey Samson,

I'm pleased to see that you have decided to take steps to learn dating. As a 43 years old you have a lot of good things going for you that should make the learning easier, especially if you have some of your fundamentals already handled (your powerlifting if I'm right).

People you are curious to go on a date with but live far away.

For me the best way to handle that was to actually travel to the place and stay there a few days, with a hotel room. Find a hotel near popular places, arrange a date in a coffee shop nearby the hotel - or even better, at your hotel if it has a nice lounge or bar, spend an hour of face time then invite her in your room to "listen to some music". The fact that you are "just passing by for a few days" actually works in your favor. Interested girls will make up schedule for you if they know you won't be around long. Consider that the girls coming to meet you in these circumstances are really into you.

By doing just this I had some very memorable, unique experiences in Cebu, Bangkok, Singapore, Hong Kong and Nairobi. Some of them still going on.

People who like you a lot, but you are only somewhat interested.

Go for it - as long as they're at least cute. Where you are at, you need to ramp up experience and reference points. You can worry about gaming the higher league once you have more experience.

One or two women I've approached have acted like they are shocked I have asked them if they would like to go on a date. As if they thought I was out of their league.

It is an attainability thing. You're not enough attainable. Search the term in the GC site, it's one of the core concepts. You probably need to tweak a little your pictures, "toning them down", to be more attainable. Similarly, I had to drop the pics where I'm coming too strong.

What do you do when you're with someone who is a little bit too keen? They might be expecting more than you are offering at an early stage.

And also answering your other comment. "girls want a relationship". This is an erroneous belief. Initially they want and hope that you will lead them smoothly into sex. Just give them that and you will see the smile of gratitude on their face! However *later on*, maybe after the third time sex, yes, they will start having expectations of a relationship.

Before you get to that point, you have a lot of margin.

Also remember, it is *your* behavior that shapes *their* expectations.

Bad sex experiences. What about when you get to bed with someone and it doesn't go well, for whatever reason, in the bedroom.

The fatty surprise, haha, I got a few of them (one of the peculiarities of online dating). If it went wrong in bed, don't worry, she will be aware of it, too. It is very unlikely that she starts chasing you. Most of the time she won't message you after. Great! So you don't message her either. Easy enough!

Seppuku

 

[Samson84]

What do you do if you want a first date with somebody and you invite them out somewhere by text and they respond by suggesting you join them with their friends or some other group situation?

 

[Seppuku]

You politely decline, and open up for doing it another day: "Oh I see... [some excuse] ... let's do it another day then"

Group dates, social dates, fun dates are not conducive of seduction. On the opposite, they are usually a one way ticket for the no man's land of friend zone.

The date you want to have is two of you only. No restaurant or cinema. A coffee shop, or a cozy lounge bar (my favorite), sitting side by side while sipping a cocktail or wine, and with a few snacks.

Restaurant or cinema are both bad for your karma. They will communicate the wrong thing. She will view you as a potential boyfriend, then put the brake "lets' take it slow". You're very likely to end up nowhere after 3 or 4 dates (that is, if she even stays around this whole time).

Cheers,
Seppuku

 

[Samson84]

You politely decline, and open up for doing it another day: "Oh I see... [some excuse] ... let's do it another day then"

Group dates, social dates, fun dates are not conducive of seduction. On the opposite, they are usually a one way ticket for the no man's land of friend zone.

The date you want to have is two of you only. No restaurant or cinema. A coffee shop, or a cozy lounge bar (my favorite), sitting side by side while sipping a cocktail or wine, and with a few snacks.

Restaurant or cinema are both bad for your karma. They will communicate the wrong thing. She will view you as a potential boyfriend, then put the brake "lets' take it slow". You're very likely to end up nowhere after 3 or 4 dates (that is, if she even stays around this whole time).

Cheers,
Seppuku

Wow no restaurant is a surprise, counter intuitive. So ... you're saying if she views you as a potential bf then she will resist sex and thereby make the bf possibility even less likely? Why is it bad if she sees you as a potential bf, if this is someone you would like as a gf?

 

[Seppuku]

Wow no restaurant is a surprise, counter intuitive. So ... you're saying if she views you as a potential bf then she will resist sex and thereby make the bf possibility even less likely? Why is it bad if she sees you as a potential bf, if this is someone you would like as a gf?

Yes that's what I'm saying indeed. View it this way:
* man's frame: resist her frame and make her submit to sex
* woman's frame: resist his frame and make him submit to a relationship

It is a power struggle: who is going to make the other one submit?

When you take her to a restaurant, you are showcasing yourself as a relationship candidate, but in the process you are implicitly submitting to *her frame*. You are giving her the power over the relationship. It's now up to her to decide if she chooses you. And there is no challenge for her.

On the opposite, if you take her to a coffee shop, then "pull" her to your home and escalate her sexually, you are making her submit to *your frame*. You have now the power to decide whether you give her the relationship she wants, or not. It's now up to you. And you were a real challenge.

Believe it or not, she would just *love* to submit to a man - but she just can't make it easy, because that would be slutty. Consider:
* Ever heard women complain that "there are no real men anymore"? By real man, they mean a man who will make them submit.
* Ever heard a woman saying that her boyfriend "swiped her on her feet"? She meant a guy who made her submit to his frame.

This advice seems counter-intuitive because it goes against conventional wisdom and conventional dating advice. But conventional dating advice, in fact, doesn't work. If you can successfully apply the above, your results will skyrocket. You will put yourself in the position of the chooser (rather than being chosen).

And once you have seduced her, it is up to you to decide if you want to continue. If you like her, why not taking her as a girlfriend then? But it will now be on your terms (since you are the one holding the power). And you will get *much more respect* from her as a man.

Cheers,
Seppuku
PS. And I'm not inventing things. All this stuff is all over the place in Girls Chase articles. Chase has a talent to explain all these things in a way that just makes sense. I think you ought to read some more!

 

[Samson84]

I dunno man, I feel like there is some fundamental paradigm shift here that I am missing, or hasn't clicked yet. I've been reading articles and I bought Chase's book but unfortunately although the order went through I haven't been able to download it from the site. I've also been learning from Corey Wayne's book, The 3% Man, which seems to have a lot of overlap but has more of a focus on how to progress to and then maintain a loving relationship.

This idea of competing frames - I guess it makes some sense at a socio-biological level - like a mating dance / ritual - there has to be some tension and challenge on both sides because of mating competition I suppose. But on the other hand it can't be too difficult otherwise mating would not happen which would be counter-productive to the species. In the end both parties want to reproduce with the best available partner, right?

Then there's also the short-term vs long-term conflict in any potential mate. Iirc this is usually referred to as Alpha vs Beta - strong genes vs consistent provision - sexy vs stable. Guys could have a conflict too between beauty and attitude/loyalty, same kind of conflict.

So I think you're saying that the best way for the man is for sex to precede a committed relationship, which can then be on the guy's terms? What about equality and mutuality in relationships then? Does one person always have to be "in control"?

 

[Samson84]

I'm personally finding that most women leave me pretty cold and I don't have much enthusiasm. But the few who really move me, I get easily hooked and infatuated by their looks and sexual power. They are typically unattainable too. So I think I'm probably missing some basic mental/emotional shifts that might be limiting my happiness.

 

[Seppuku]

Hey Samson,

You *can* get girlfriends through the conventional dating way, but your success rate will be much, much lower. Some of the usual symptoms typically observed:

* date goes well, you text to setup next date, then never hear from her again. You're left scratching your head about why...
* you get several dates, but can never conclude or get anywhere
* After several dates you finally get bold, and she tells you that she doesn't see you this way...
* Etc...

Ring a bell? Be ready for many of these (... of course! because she wanted you to make her submit to your will, and you didn't). But ultimately you will get one date that *will* lead somewhere. It may take a while though, with much time spend wondering why, why it doesn't go as planned.

The dating model advocated here in Girls Chase suggests you move faster than you would normally do. Ideally you conclude by taking her to bed on the first, or maximum second date. It goes like this:

* setup a date in a relaxed, no pressure setting close to your place
* have one or two hours face time in which you make her speak about herself, and get her comfortable with your touch
* After that, lead her to your home. If she asks, tell her that you have a nice playlist of music - or any other pretext
* At home make her comfortable, serve a little wine, put that playlist on, get close to her and escalate sexually

So simple! Actually much simpler than the slow conquer, multiple dates model. Much less chances to fuck up.

I'm not here to convince you. Make up your mind and choose what you want for yourself. But you came here asking advice on a seduction forum. I would suggest you give it a serious try. If you do so, this community is here to help you.

Let me now share my thoughts on what you wrote. Take away what you want.

The 3% Man, which seems to have a lot of overlap but has more of a focus on how to progress to and then maintain a loving relationship.

There is no contradiction: just because you seduced her fast, doesn't mean you can't have a loving relationship afterwards! And it doesn't have to be a one night stand.

I dunno man, I feel like there is some fundamental paradigm shift here that I am missing, or hasn't clicked yet.

I was there 3 years ago. I initially tried half-assed attempts, applying all this stuff partially, because I thought the paradigm couldn't apply to me. I got half successes - which was better than nothing. And one day I had a monumental fuck up that made me give a second thought to all this - and I decided to make the leap of faith and apply the logic in full. And it all got much, much easier. I immediately lined up success after success. All documented here in my journal and lay reports. But it was not before one year into my learning of all this.

This idea of competing frames - I guess it makes some sense at a socio-biological level - like a mating dance / ritual - there has to be some tension and challenge on both sides because of mating competition I suppose.

If you are no challenge to the girl, how exactly do you think you will differentiate yourself from the dozens of guys who are currently orbiting around her? Answer: you won't.

But on the other hand it can't be too difficult otherwise mating would not happen which would be counter-productive to the species. In the end both parties want to reproduce with the best available partner, right?

The dating model I described above couldn't be simpler, couldn't be more natural.

Then there's also the short-term vs long-term conflict in any potential mate. Iirc this is usually referred to as Alpha vs Beta - strong genes vs consistent provision - sexy vs stable. Guys could have a conflict too between beauty and attitude/loyalty, same kind of conflict.

Oops, wrong belief here. You will get quality girls at least equally well, if not easier, than so called "sluts" or "party girls". A girl you seduced in a manly manner will always respect you for that and be loyal to you.

So I think you're saying that the best way for the man is for sex to precede a committed relationship, which can then be on the guy's terms? What about equality and mutuality in relationships then? Does one person always have to be "in control"?

I used to believe in "equality and mutuality of relationship" and this belief has been a cause of damage to my marriage. The man has a status of leader in the relationship, it's one of the qualities that all girls will expect from their man. If he's the leader, there cannot be "equality". It's the same as in a professional setting, if the boss sets himself on the same level as his direct reports he will eventually lose their respect, and good luck then. The boss, is the boss. In a couple, the man, is the man. Ignore this, and you will lose her respect. Frankly I wished I knew that twenty years ago when I met my ex wife.

Alright! It's your decision to give all this a try or not. But if you do, this community is here to help.

Good luck to you!
Cheers,
Seppuku

 

[Samson84]

Hi Seppuku, thanks for your detailed reply! I'm definitely wanting to give this a go for sure. I'm looking to improve my fundamentals with an image consultation and maybe some body language coaching. And I am planning to do the newbie assignment when i get back home to the uk. Right now I'm in NY and making an effort to be more sociable in general. And I've got a date lined up in another city 2 weeks from now (from online dating agency). No results yet but willing to give it all a go.

Samson

 

[dcman]

I'm personally finding that most women leave me pretty cold and I don't have much enthusiasm. But the few who really move me, I get easily hooked and infatuated by their looks and sexual power. They are typically unattainable too. So I think I'm probably missing some basic mental/emotional shifts that might be limiting my happiness.

Hi Samson , glad to see you are becoming more sociable and open to test out new ideas.
Seppuku has taken time to provide an in-depth response to address most of the questions and doubts you had in mind and a guide for how the seduction process works.

I wanted to respond to your feeling certain girls are unattainable. I used to have the same feeling that some girls because of their social status or competition were out of my league. Once I began to study seduction I realized I was making a major wrong fundamental assumption. I was thinking a girl’s mate selection process was logical and my feeling's of unattainability was based on this incorrect assumption. But from readings and experience I then later realized a girl’s mate selection process was more emotional than logical. While there are many articles written about this subject the one that clicked on me was the examples Maniac High used in his pickup guide to show how he could use emotions to overcome a girls logical thought process. There are a number of examples he used to convey this point in his pickup guide. Once I had the knowledge any perceived disadvantage in status ,looks ,age etc were possible to overcome with good PUA Skills it helped me remove the mental block about unattainable girls. These days I make interactions with any girl without worrying about their attainability. This has helped me be in relationships with girls that I thought previously were not attainable. Wanted to share this in case it helps.

Have a good New Year Mate.

 

[Samson84]

That's great dcman. Do you have a link to these Maniac High articles? Thanks as always.

Samson

 

[dcman]

Hi Samson , the link is http://www.pickup guide.com . Just keep in mind that this was one of the oldest non commercial seduction sites so there is no organization of the articles or flow in the writing . I read through the articles especially the ones where other PUA'a had given their comments. It helped understand the concept how having strong PUA skills could help overcome any perceived disadvantage in other aspects that I felt I lacked. Hope it helps.