New guy here with a serious self-image issue

[Cantgiveup]

Hi everyone,
I've been reading articles on the site for a few weeks and I decided to register, because a, I want to do the newbie program, b, I want feedback on some stuff.

I'm 28, have a pretty successful career and have a good income. I am someone who thinks he can do anything he sets his mind to, and I am very confident in my abilities. Except for one single area of life, and I think I don't need to specify which one it is.

I simply can't get over the feeling that I don't qualify as an attractive man in hot girls' eyes, and this is due to my very poor self-image regarding my looks. One thing I'd like to set straight is I am perfectly aware that I am not ugly. I dress sharp, have my hair cut every 1 or 2 weeks, any while I'm still working towards a really good body, I look pretty lean when dressed. So I'm not going to bs you that I'm the worst looking cripple in the world - I know this is not true. I have asked girls for honest feedback, specifically instructing them to tell me even if it will hurt so that I can take steps (I would even consider plastic surgery), not one of them has given me a negative feedback. I don't have a huge social circle so I rarely meet new girls this way, but there were occasions where girls (average ones though) practically offered sex.

So I know I am somewhat attractive at least.

However, there are two things due to which I simply cannot really acquire the belief that I can get a really HOT girl, someone with a nice body and a beautiful face. And these are (oh you will be surprised) my receding chin and my height (5'9).

I have the unshakeable feeling that these features simply won't let me rise above a certain level. I look at what kind of guys hot girls are with, and in 95% of the cases the guy is tall and/or has a masculine jaw. And I can't get over the feeling that this is some kind of hard limit that I will NEVER ascend no matter what (well I could become a sugar daddy). This is KILLING my confidence and vibe. It is also extremely rare that I see an attractive girl checking me out, and I hear that this should happen pretty regularly for an attractive guy.

The problem is that I'm 28 and I have never been with the kind of woman I really want. I have been with a few 6s and the odd 7 (who thought less of themselves than they should have), and one 8 (but she was much older - 38). But never one girl whom I would have picked over others because I wanted her. Never the really attractive ones. And I can't shake this belief that I'm limited by my looks to the "cute" girls while I'll always be dreaming about the really beautiful ones.

But I am unable to accept this, and I must do everything I possibly can to turn this around. I can't let my life become a streak of unfulfilled dreams. I'm working on building a great body (though my genetics don't help), and I'm committed to cold approach and getting over my approach anxiety. It's just that it would be way easier if I didn't have to constantly fight with my feelings of inadequacy and hopelessness.

 

[demigod]

Yeah I know exactly where you're at. I'm 5'7 and its basically the average height for girls where I'm from. It does have an effect. But perhaps you need to start "oozing sexual energy", it might just be body language.
I'm not really someone to talk though, can't seem to break into that frame.

 

[Seppuku]

Alright, so you are:

* dressing sharply
* lean
* at least moderately attractive

Although there is always more that can be done to improve fundamentals, I believe this is already enough to attract the top girls in principle.

The big part you are missing to achieve this is *your mindset*, and your game. Mindset and game are the major differentiator as long as you have a minimum of fundamentals boiled down (which you do).

Lots of new guys come here, and despair that they cannot attract the "kind of girls they want" - i.e. usually 8+ girls. The thing is that, unless you find yourself an 8+ AND low self esteem girl, the majority of the 8+ girls out there are living in a world of abundance, and as such, usually end up with guys which are very good (i.e. experienced) with girls. These are the guys who won't flinch an inch in front of their beauty, and who will confidently swipe them on their feet before they know it.

She can normally tell very quickly, from his language, and subtle body language cues (or not so subtle), whether the guy is good or not. A guy who is good communicates experience with girls, and therefore preselection. It is massively attractive for them! And the girls at the top (8+) have their pick of the guys first... So, they go for the good ones.

No wonder that guys new in game can't access these top girls.

This is to say, you will get much more consistent results with top girls once you acquire enough experience.

It is not formally impossible to get a top girl without the experience: the problem they face is that the "good" guys have so much choices that it is harder for them to settle, and are therefore hard to control. So, a "top" girl who just had a disappointing experience with such a "good" (so-called "alpha") guy, could decide to get into a bounce relationship with a more un-experienced, so called "beta" guy (but also more easy to control...). That's the only reason why so called "betas" can also access this category of girls. But it requires an amount of luck... And possibly many years to "get lucky", if ever.

Back to the topic. Your look and physical appearance, the way you describe, are already enough. No need for beating yourself. You can always do things to improve: do some weightlifting, dress even more sharp, improve your body language and posture.

But in your case, what you primarily need is more experience. And for that, you need to take more girls to bed! And get some of this abundance mentality. Get good, to the point that you can get 6 and 7 girls to the bed consistently... like two or three new per month if you want. Once you reach there, you work the food chain upwards toward the 8s and 9s. You will see that it gets much easier then!

Seppuku
PS. You will know you are here when your new girls no longer ask you "do you have a girlfriend?" but "how many girls do you have?" LOL.

 

[Cantgiveup]

You may be right Seppuku. My problem with approaching less attractive girls is that I am afraid of getting stuck in a relationship with one of them. This is why I am so fixated on getting at least an 8. But I suppose maybe I should set my sights a bit lower at first and only pursue sex not a relationship.

 

[demigod]

You may be right Seppuku. My problem with approaching less attractive girls is that I am afraid of getting stuck in a relationship with one of them. This is why I am so fixated on getting at least an 8. But I suppose maybe I should set my sights a bit lower at first and only pursue sex not a relationship.

Oh wow we share a quite similar thought process. For interest sake, what industry do you work in?

 

[Seppuku]

You may be right Seppuku. My problem with approaching less attractive girls is that I am afraid of getting stuck in a relationship with one of them. This is why I am so fixated on getting at least an 8. But I suppose maybe I should set my sights a bit lower at first and only pursue sex not a relationship.

There are guys out there who are ready to say any lie necessary if it can get them the girl to bed. Including promises such as being the boyfriend, or even marriage. Whatever gets them the girl! This is grossly manipulative, outright lies, and this is what causes pain and tears. Shame on them! Because there is *no need* for lying! Instead, you will find that in general girls are OK with having sex with a guy, no strings attached... As long as you do not set the wrong expectations. I had about 50 different girls in the last three years. I am not aware that I broke the heart of any of them. Well, maybe once at the beginning, my mistake - I felt sorry ever after. But the others were *just fine*.

A usual problem occurs because the guy is happy that he (at last!) got a sex partner. Maybe he's been playing alone for a year or so! So when he gets one at last, he wants to have sex again with her. And again. And again. Securing a safe access to regular sex. And this is where *she* locks him into a relationship.

You can have sex with her once, or even a second time, without risking getting her the wrong ideas. At this point, you should then reduce the frequency of sex with her, say once in every ten days, and she will get the picture without a heartache. However, if instead you increase the frequency, this is where you put yourself in serious trouble, because she will be the one to lock you in.

It is your duty (i) not to give her the wrong expectations, and (ii) not to let her lock you in a relationship.

If you observe these two principles, it is not difficult to have sex with a girl, without getting stuck in a relationship. Just try!

Seppuku
PS. One caveat: if you take her to bed after three dates, or even more, this is one of the ways to give her false expectations: because that's the "way of the boyfriend". So, it is essential to learn, then stick to, fast seduction methods.

 

[Inowtakethelead]

You may be right Seppuku. My problem with approaching less attractive girls is that I am afraid of getting stuck in a relationship with one of them. This is why I am so fixated on getting at least an 8. But I suppose maybe I should set my sights a bit lower at first and only pursue sex not a relationship.

There are guys out there who are ready to say any lie necessary if it can get them the girl to bed. Including promises such as being the boyfriend, or even marriage. Whatever gets them the girl! This is grossly manipulative, outright lies, and this is what causes pain and tears. Shame on them! Because there is *no need* for lying! Instead, you will find that in general girls are OK with having sex with a guy, no strings attached... As long as you do not set the wrong expectations. I had about 50 different girls in the last three years. I am not aware that I broke the heart of any of them. Well, maybe once at the beginning, my mistake - I felt sorry ever after. But the others were *just fine*.

A usual problem occurs because the guy is happy that he (at last!) got a sex partner. Maybe he's been playing alone for a year or so! So when he gets one at last, he wants to have sex again with her. And again. And again. Securing a safe access to regular sex. And this is where *she* locks him into a relationship.

You can have sex with her once, or even a second time, without risking getting her the wrong ideas. At this point, you should then reduce the frequency of sex with her, say once in every ten days, and she will get the picture without a heartache. However, if instead you increase the frequency, this is where you put yourself in serious trouble, because she will be the one to lock you in.

It is your duty (i) not to give her the wrong expectations, and (ii) not to let her lock you in a relationship.

If you observe these two principles, it is not difficult to have sex with a girl, without getting stuck in a relationship. Just try!

Seppuku
PS. One caveat: if you take her to bed after three dates, or even more, this is one of the ways to give her false expectations: because that's the "way of the boyfriend". So, it is essential to learn, then stick to, fast seduction methods.

Love it thanks seppuku! saved in notes.

 

[Cacc]

Cantgiveup,

It's a normal thing and it still happens to me but nowhere near the intensity it used to. This goes away, but only when your experience starts proving your beliefs wrong. So go out there, and get laid a few times. And your insecurities will calm down and eventually disappear.

 

[Seppuku]

Looks are overrated in my opinion. Starting with girls. The proportion of *real* hot girls is much less than it would appear at first sight. Many self-styled "hot girls", once you remove the short dress, the heels, the makeup, the bras... no longer not look so hot at all - skinny, tiny boobs, no hips - or fatties... Guys overreact to any girl showing a little bare skin and undulating back. Girls know this obviously and use it to their advantage all the time. Because of this, even fatties get their share of good looking guys.

The good news is that we guys can do the same. It's what Chase calls "fundamentals" - and there is always more than we can do about it. Eat more proteins and less carbs. Lose weight. Build muscle. Increase testosterone. Have a clean haircut. Groom your facial hair. Dress sharply at all times. Walk straight. Use eye contact. Use deeper voice. Etc...

So, of course looks matters. But assuming you're not going to a date in shorts, loose tee shirts and sandals, and that you have a minimum care about yourself and your own appearance, you are more than enough on the looks side. That's the rational way to put it. But well, I know that insecurities are usually rooted beyond the rational. At some point, you will just need to trust what we are telling you is right and take a leap of faith. If you get a few successes, your insecurities should disappear. You will see that success is a self-reinforcing virtuous circle.

But looks matter less to girls, than they do for guys. The world is full of very good looking guys alone, or in couple with a girl well below their league. From a girl's perspective, there are many other factors at play, at least as important as looks, if not more. Your mindset is one of them! Here are a few little mindset tweaks you can do on your dates, that will improve your odds - more than looks alone will:

* Don't spend your time determining if she likes you. Don't try hard making her like you. Don't try to impress her.
* Instead, convince yourself that, because she accepted the date, she already likes you.
* Don't make yourself obvious like an open book!
* Instead, be aware of your own body language. Keep her guessing at whether you like her or not.
* Don't spend your time making her laugh - that's try hard. Instead, make her talk about herself.
* Touch her. Touch early. Touch often. Become more and more bold over her body.
* When you see her jiggling and excited, remember that she is hoping that you will fuck her. How about that for a mindset tweak!
* If she wanted you to fuck her and you didn't make it happen, you will most likely never see her again. So it's now or never!
* In short... your goal on a date is not to make her like you enough, so as to secure a second date. Your goal is to be sexy, build tension, make her excited, then take her to your home.

Try these! Very likely, you will initially doubt yourself ("does she like me?" or "I did so and so, and she didn't seem to react well! Maybe she doesn't like me!") You will have voices telling you "she's a good girl. Surely, good girls don't do that!" Just kill these voices and take the leap of faith!

Chasing the 8+ girls as a beginner? Good luck with this! You don't have enough experience (yet), and they will be aware of it. You will be more impressed and nervous, and anxious not to fuck it up - which will all conspire against your chances. And there simply aren't enough of 8+ girls available around for you to acquire abundance mentality - at least in the beginning.

"I'm going to be trapped in a relationship!" Nope! Only if you let yourself trapped. There are easy ways around that. One is controlling the frequency of meetups. Another is to never say or imply anything that would enforce a "boyfriend frame".

Well, I hope this helps.

Seppuku

 

[Parkour]

You may be right Seppuku. My problem with approaching less attractive girls is that I am afraid of getting stuck in a relationship with one of them. This is why I am so fixated on getting at least an 8. But I suppose maybe I should set my sights a bit lower at first and only pursue sex not a relationship.

He’s absolutely right. You’re setting yourself up. You need the boundaries and confidence to not become a needy clinger to the 8. Women smell that vibe a mile away. It broadcasts the message that SHE should worry that she could end up stuck in a relationship with a low number. It turns her off and suggests she has better options.

Here is a chain to illustrate where confidence comes from
Self validation -> courage -> assertiveness/practice -> (observe improving win rate and adaptation) -> self confidence/esteem/image boost

Your relationship with yourself comes first. It starts with self validation because otherwise, even if you had wins you would just invalidate them. So basically, just assert that you as a whole package is awesome (you’re so much more than your height or your chin) and take it from there. A deliberate practice of self validation leading to assertive action will get your whole situation light years further than a chin implant and shoe risers.

 

[Richard]

On top of what Seppuku has already said, I'd like to address this point:

You may be right Seppuku. My problem with approaching less attractive girls is that I am afraid of getting stuck in a relationship with one of them. This is why I am so fixated on getting at least an 8. But I suppose maybe I should set my sights a bit lower at first and only pursue sex not a relationship.

You make it sound like you don't have a choice in the matter.

You're the man which means you're the one leading a woman; if you don't want a relationship or if a girl doesn't meet your standards then you don't get into a relationship with them, plain and simple. As Seppuku pointed out - it's your job to not set bad expectations and, if you unwind that further, it means that you're responsible for leading a woman.

Last thing I'd like to point out; physical attractiveness is not a REQUIREMENT to sleep with hot women. Guys vastly overestimate the supposed importance of "looks" - the only thing that great looks helps with is hooking a girl early on and making your job a little bit easier but it's not a necessity. Women are attracted to confidence and stay loyal to guys that can repeatedly give them great sex. S, provided you're able to make it past the first few minutes of conversation with a woman then your looks, for the most part, become null and void.

That aside, welcome to the Boards CGU! This is one of the best places to be if you're serious about improving your dating/social life!

-Richard