Night-Street Game and Moving Women

[Marty]

Hey fellas, I've started dialing up my night-street game and though I had some notable beginner's luck last weekend, I'm becoming conscious of my failings, as is always the case when you try something new.

I'm going to list out here what I think seems important, from what I can deduce, to give those with significant night-street game experience a chance to weigh in and correct my erroneous perceptions where necessary.

• For me, what seems to work best is opening all-girl groups (in contrast to day game, where I go for girls alone); within the first ten seconds, pick one, based either upon sex appeal or how she nonverbally reacts to my opening the group, and go direct on her. Classiness about this has its advantages in this environment; a lot of guys are drunk and unruly, and unsubtle compliments stand out less than more understated ones. Also, the other girls seem surprisingly "passively helpful" (by not interfering, giving us space etc.) compared with what I'd perhaps expected.
  
• I think I need to move a lot faster through banter, rapport and deep-dive than in day game, and push for the close very early on.
  
• On-the-spot persistence seems to be several orders of magnitude more critical here than in day game. The mood change from the moment to a later date is generally too extreme to manage; I must show attractive persistence to make things happen now. Reviewing last night in my mind, I may have even mistaken an escalation window ("I'm going to get back with my friends now") for a true rejection. There's no way of knowing unless I respond correctly ("Why don't you come home with me instead of staying at your friends' place?")

Now the real difficulty I have is with moving girls to generate compliance (and screen for interest). When you meet them on the streets at night, they're usually headed for a specific destination (generally, homeward). Walking along with the group to wherever they're going creates an unhelpful frame that I am in pursuit. What would you do here? Something like this: "Stop for a second, we'll catch your friends up later, I want to ask you something out of earshot" or similar?

Thanks in advance for your guidance, friends!

-Marty

 

[Nova]

yo marty,

firstly, for me personally, i always make a conscious effort to target girls carefully, generally i would always opt to approach a girl by herself versus in a group. BUT the fact that you open all-girl groups and run into no problems or 'cock blocks' or whatever you want to call them from the gals friends, speaks volumes of your presence, vibe and fundamentals. her friends wont interfere with you or give you problems when interacting with a girl from their group if your somebody they themselves view as sexy and what not. seeings as you have no problems here, then cool, keep doing it.

but do remember to move the girl you are interested in quickly. isolate her from there group, this gains investment & makes everything easier for you as it frees her to open her self up to you (hopefully literally, later). this is an important step when approaching groups.

yeh in general for night game things happen quicker. there are exceptions of course, but generally you can look to be spending less time talking etc and more time getting to the gist/escalating. remember there is no golden rule as to when you should push for the close. it differs depending on the girl and your level or expertise and fundamentals. its all pertinent to your own individual situation. the most vital thing to remember is to move when you see the green like (escalation window) - don't miss those. go with your gut.

despite what many people say, fuck worrying about and over thinking what girls say, its really unnecessary. a lot of the time its not really very easy to decipher anyway. go by her body language, and keep moving with her, if shes complying, despite what she may be saying, shes game. something chase said once, that is so true and such an useful mentality to adopt, and one that as you advance you will develop naturally anyway is, run all of your interactions on the assumption that the girl likes you and just keep things moving.

for me, when it comes to night game (clubs, bars, street) i only ever run my interactions with the plan of making something happen tonight/versus getting her number to organize future dates etc. there are simply too many girls around who will be game for something tonight for me to bother throwing away my time on girls who are going to try to drag things on.

for night street game i always do this after things have simmered down and the night is coming to an end. try to pre-open her and remember to be direct. try to make things happen quickly versus having a full on conversation, because yes, she is walking and wont stick around unless you give her reason to change her mind quickly. fundamentals are more important night street game than any other time because if you are doing things correctly often they are the biggest thing a girl has to go off when deciding whether to go home with you or not. bit of light chat, good night? bla bla bla give her your name, tell her the night doesn't have to end so soon, great body language and ask her home for a drink. sometimes it is just a case of running into the right girl. if shes with friends, its a lot harder and you do have to find a way to isolate her, generally.

 

[Gentle_Phrases]

Hey Nova,

Thanks for the tips there. I get the gist that you waste no time!

versus getting her number to organize future dates etc.

Yeah. I'm learning that numbers - at least at my level - go nowhere.

-______-



Marty,

Check out this video by Tyler from RSD.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi5u4P_JzbU#t=62


I can't recall if Chase has any articles up about this yet. Regardless, I always like seeing visual examples of this stuff. Sort of reinforces that it's entirely possible. I think the key point here is that you can get away with gently taking girl's hands and moving them if they sense sincere clarity of intent and you don't look like a shady night stalker. Since you aren't the latter, maybe the former needs a tune up:

I must show attractive persistence to make things happen now

Once you show that combined with some audacious intent, girls will probably move with you more, on average. I'll be trying this myself tonight. Pay attention to his 7th rule, especially if you're doing larger sets.

I'd like to hear Chase's opinion on tyler one day. I'm sure he must have met him by now.

 

[Marty]

Hey Nova and Gentle Phrases, thank you for your commentary: I'm going to address each individually below.

Nova:

You are so on the money, it's unbelievable. All the feedback I've read from my recent FRs leads me to the same conclusion: reasonably solid fundamentals, flawed/shaky process. That's better than the other way around, because it's an easier (and more interesting) fix: lots of practice in the field.

It's progress from my pre-GC days which I now analyze as follows: barely acceptable fundamentals, zero process. That's why I was getting passing interest from selected females who were then auto-rejecting right off the bat when I failed to capitalize on their signals.

I am also totally on the same page as you now, having learned the hard way, about on-the-spot closing. Basically, anything that could be construed as "night": post-10 PM, in a social venue or on the street, unless it's in a really neutral location such as a grocery store, means you have to close out there and then. Day game, you can make a case either way, I guess.

And yes—if I'd gone with my intuition on the body language of the 20-year-old girl who did open for me on the streets at around 2.45 AM this Sunday morning just passed, and ignored her words or interpreted them differently, I'd have moved things much further forward or at the very worst learned a lot more. She held onto my hand as we said our parting words, stared into my eyes with a smile... I acted incorrectly. Lesson learned.

I'm interested to read your point on timing. From somewhere I recall Chase's mantra "go out early, go out alone" but I think that referred to classic (social venue) night game. I'm glad to hear that when it comes to the streets, I'm doing the same as you'd advocate.

I want to emphasize however that at present, I am not actually attending any night-spot as such. I wake up at night, get dressed and go out into the streets, stone-cold sober. From the successes I read about on the forums, I am itching to try classic night game, but I admit I have a hang-up about walking as a 38-year-old into a cocktail lounge packed with Millennials. That's fine, it just means I have to try it once or twice and soon enough I'll get over the mental block just like with anything else.

Gentle Phrases:

Thanks for posting the link, I watched the video. I think I've seen this guy somewhere before, in any case I regard his self-assured and dominant manner very positively, and I can learn from his vocal intonation and confident body language.

In terms of energy, however, my own style is a lot lower-key, I could never be this guy. My preference is to draw alongside a girl, real close, and open her with a deep, resonant purr before making sidelong eye-contact with a knowing smile. Or similar

Interesting point about his 7th rule... I have certainly considered asking girls to call out or involve others in the group, and I think I should start doing this to gain reference points. In the early hours of Sunday morning, I attempted to open two girl-groups, but only one actually opened for me.

The one that didn't consisted of two girls sitting together on an outdoor bench opposite the Loews hotel, in black cocktail dresses, at around 2.30 AM. One gave me good eye-contact and smiles, and the other was ultra-bitchy. It all moved too fast for me to think on my feet and realize what I needed to do. I used Zphix's classic "seated opener" (intended for Starbucks in the mid-afternoon, but hey):

• 
  Marty: Hello! If you're not too busy, do you mind if I take the seat next to you?
  
  Moody Girl: Do you have to? We're busy. (turns away from me)
  
  Receptive Girl: (smiling at me) I'm afraid we're in the middle of a rather important conversation! (indicating the other girl)
  
  Marty: Is it a "deep" conversation? (winks)
  
  Receptive Girl: (still smiling) Yes, she's rather upset...
  
  Marty: I can see that. What's your name? (to Receptive Girl)
  
  Moody Girl: It's none of your business! Now will you leave us alone!!
  
  Marty: (briskly) I apologize for intruding. Please enjoy the rest of your evening.
  
  Receptive Girl: You too!

That went haywire, but it needn't have. Before "What's your name?" I should have gone direct: "You have awfully pretty eyes. What's your name?" and then assuming that Moody Girl interrupted as before, continued by addressing Receptive Girl: "Your friend is telling me to go away. Do you want me to go away?"

The result might have been the same, if she'd said "I think you'd better, I'm afraid" but then I could have persisted attractively with "Are you sure? We might never have another chance to speak again!" in mock-dramatic manner, which might just have broken the ice and gotten them both laughing. I don't know.

As I mentioned, the second group opened well, and I chatted with my preferred girl for six or seven minutes without interruption from the others, until she said something that I interpreted as closing me down, but I might just as well have taken as an escalation window.

Thanks again, gentlemen!

-Marty

 

[Nova]

hey Marty

Yeh when I say it's easier to pick up girls night time towards the end I specifically mean street game not venue. Another way you can get lucky is with random girls who aren't actually out partying but are just comming back home after doing something else. Those girls are often receptive as they know it's sat night or whatever and want to have some of the fun too.

Don't worry about your age, besides I am sure there are plenty of venues with an older demographic. actually where I'm from the cocktail bars generally have a slightly more mature crowd than many other places. but I like them young - but legal!

 

[Marty]

Thanks Nova!

but I like them young - but legal!

Yeah, I like them young (but legal) too, the vast majority of the girls I open in cold approach are 20-25 and the two I kissed in the past couple weeks were 24 and 23 respectively. That's not really what I meant—I'm just more self-conscious about standing out in a venue (I generally prefer not to be the center of attention), whilst on the streets everything seems so much more natural and relaxed.

But I think that's a sensible approach in general: get a lot of practice on the streets, where it's easier and lower-key, then take that confidence into a night venue where the girls are pre-screened to want something now but the vibe is high-pressure and nerve-racking. I also have a phobia of male competition (that's probably why I like opening all-girl groups), which is something I simply have to get over.

-Marty

 

[Gentle_Phrases]

Marty,

I generally prefer not to be the center of attention

I feel you on not being enthusiastic about traditional club game. I know I will end up doing it once I can, just as you say you will. If it helps, I once met a man of about 42 who picked up from clubs with impunity. He was dating a Russian model/actress when I left.

Moody Girl: It's none of your business! Now will you leave us alone!!

Marty: (briskly) I apologize for intruding. Please enjoy the rest of your evening.

I'm certain you'll collect more stories like this once you hit the clubs. When I met the age requirement (thanks to being on vacation) I did a bit of solo club game. It felt awful the first few times, even though I got positive responses from a few girls. So much noise, so many mixed signals, abject cockblocking. It was like the game equivalent of driving in downtown New York. I'm certain that it must build brain cells. At the same time...I gotta tell you that it felt so raw, so real Marty. It was fun.

persisted attractively

I agree.

until she said something that I interpreted as closing me down, but I might just as well have taken as an escalation window.

Hang in there mate. It might be just a tad before another level up in your game!

but legal!

 

[Marty]

If it helps, I once met a man of about 42 who picked up from clubs with impunity. He was dating a Russian model/actress when I left.

It does help. Incentive helps more than anything, for my mentality! Thanks.

It was like the game equivalent of driving in downtown New York.

Cool. I am going to remember this. The first time I lived in Moscow, I wondered how anyone could ever drive there. The second time I was given a company car, tried it, and wondered what all the fuss had been about before. You just need a heightened sense of awareness and to stay relaxed. Thanks for the inspiration!

Hang in there mate. It might be just a tad before another level up in your game!

I have an intuition that it's exactly that, which is why I'm itching to get started. What is there to lose?

 

[Verisimilitude]

Night street game is tough, at least in my opinion. While the girls are ready for sex, they also get jealous of a friend who has a guy going after them (think bitter guys at the end of the night), and will cockblock. A lot of times, one girl has had a bad night and the other is trying to help her.

But the good news is, I've found ways around it. Here's what I found.

1. Girls by themselves are MUCH easier to open. Of course, you have to do it in a way that makes her feel safe (she's by herself during the night), but if you do, you can get her much easier than if you try to get a girl out of a group.

A great way to do this is with an opener that implies that SHE is chasing YOU. Something like, "If you're gonna smile at me like that, the least you can do is say hi". That way, you cut down on the creepy factor because you put her as the pursuer. Girls in groups may shut you down, but girls who are alone seem to be open to it

2. There is usually a place where people gather and just mingle, at least from my experience in college, and cities. This is the perfect place to meet new people because its a good social context for it and people are more receptive to being opened.

3. I'd try to find women who aren't headed anywhere, who are talking and standing or even better, at a food place. People feel less creeped out and you don't have to be the pursuer in this situation, and you can build an emotional connection better.


But as your FR shows, you clearly don't need to follow these for success! Props to you man. I just wanted to throw my two cents in from what I've learned makes things easier.

 

[Marty]

Hi XC, good to hear from you!

A great way to do this is with an opener that implies that SHE is chasing YOU. Something like, "If you're gonna smile at me like that, the least you can do is say hi". That way, you cut down on the creepy factor because you put her as the pursuer. Girls in groups may shut you down, but girls who are alone seem to be open to it

Love this. Yeah, and you're more likely to get the smile at night in the first place, as there are fewer people around generally—greeting companions on the trail, so to speak! Thanks.

But as your FR shows, you clearly don't need to follow these for success! Props to you man.

XC, I don't have "success" yet (I wouldn't call it that), but my progress makes me happy! Slow and steady, yet I amaze myself with things I never thought I could do... implying that hopefully, there's more to come

There is usually a place where people gather and just mingle, at least from my experience in college, and cities. This is the perfect place to meet new people because its a good social context for it and people are more receptive to being opened.

Exactly—I did this last night and though I fucked up the process completely, I essentially proved to myself that it could be done. That's critical for building confidence.

-Marty

 

[lux7]

Hey Marty, seems like you threw yourself heart and soul in this .

I'm impressed by your resolve to wake up at night and just go out in the streets . I mean, you can do that and you can't enter a bar or night spot, it's like saying you can run the marathon but not the half marathon!

About group of girls, I don't have the fundamental to do that, and unluckily I don't have the one you can't improve: height. Being shorter of most of the girls in the group would hardly give me enough presence not to be overpowered and have the target snatched away most of the times.

But even without that, it seems to me an uphill battle. Taking a girl away from a group, as a complete stranger at night, in the street... Of course it's possible, but the hit rate is bound to be low.
As you've already said, most girls are going somewhere: if the group is going to a club, the tendency is for the friends to push towards that direction. And for her the tendency is to be willing to go there, most of the times.

If they're going home, you're still fighting a few things:
1. trust, which is hard to get at night as a stranger and you don't get the benefit of the doubt most of the times;
2. creep status: not always easy to tear that off if the street is not well lit.
3. willingness to have a SNL: I mean they were in a club/bar, if they really wanted a one night stand and are cute.. Chances are they could find one no? And now they are tired after the party and with their mind already toward home;
4. social pressure from the friends (hey, you know what, Lilly the other night left us to go home with a guy she just met on the way home)