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Older guy - My experience so far. Any advice?

paulanth

Space Monkey
space monkey
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May 18, 2017
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Thought I would throw my experience so far with daygame out there and ask for advice on where to go from here.

I'm 43 years old and a professor in a small liberal arts college in a town of about 400K. Divorced about 4 years ago, no kids. I'm in pretty good shape, really into muay thai and boxing. After taking a couple years to pick myself up and stop feeling sorry for myself, I started trying out daygame to get back into the dating scene. I started last year in about mid-June. Its been an interesting journey so far but I admit that I feel like I'm in a plateau.

With no experience, I started the first week by standing next to a girl whenever I was out running errands just to get a sense of walking up directly and placing myself in close proximity. The next week, I would do the same thing except say hello and make eye contact then walk away. Over the next month, I progressed to indirect openers and usually asked an opinion about something that was on a shelf at a grocery store and then go from there. While this was pretty easy to do, I found it difficult to take the conversation somewhere and things usually fizzled out.

After about a month of this I started getting frustrated and started to be more direct. For the next 4 months, I opened with "Hey or excuse me, I don't do this a lot but I think you are really cute (attractive, stunning, etc). I'm Paul". I did about 100-150 approaches like this. The worst reaction I got was a flat "no" and the girl kept walking by (which wasn't that bad but it still stung. Most reactions were thank you (then walk away), thanks but I have a boyfriend, wow, thanks you made my day, etc. I got about 10-15 numbers, went on about 8 dates and banged three girls ranging from 26 to 31. The 26 year old was the hottest and we dated for about 3 months but that ended fizzling out.

Since then, I done about 300 approaches total. I've changed my approach a little bit. Now I pretty much have a script that I try to follow that goes "Hi, I'm Paul. (shake hands. 8/10 times they will introduce themselves). I think you are really cute/attractive/adorable" If the girl doesn't walk away immediately, I usually follow up with "You handled that pretty well. This is where you say "you're not so bad yourself" (which usually gets a laugh). Then I try to move into a conversation but I always get stuck asking "so what do you do?" I know this is boring but its almost automatic and I need to practice taking a conversation in a different direction, I just don't know how do do it in the moment.

My last 250 approaches have gone nowhere. About 20 numbers and 2 dates that led to nothing. Its hard to get more than 3-4 approaches on a good day cause of the size of this city. And to be honest, I'm getting depressed and frustrated. Its a lot of time to spend doing this out of my day with no results. Should I keep plugging away? I was so psyched in the beginning and I am still proud of the progress I've made over the last 9 months but I don't seem to be making any progress at this point. At the same time, I wanted to share my experiences for the older guys like me to see.
 

Fuck This

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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2,091
Plateaus are normal. I think as an older Guy (I'm 43 as well), our social circle opens up more opportunities to meet people we have a lot in common with. Meeting friends of friends through parties, or other social situations where people are more open to socializing.

Given the number of approaches, I' can only surmise that you need to push the conversation a little more with some "I'd like to get to know you more, can I buy you a cup of coffee?" Or something to the effect of creating more of a connection.

Look at it this way: You don't have a date, or a phone number or any indication she is remotely interested in you. You have nothing to lose if you ask her for any of the three. Worst case scenario, you just brightened her day because an attractive guy asked her out.

And by the way 40 year old men are prime candidates. We are in the peak earning years of our careers, got a lot of the boyish bullshit out of the way, know what we want and can be direct, charming and have resources to make it happen.

Practice your Daygame with some OnLine Dating to see what works...learn and adjust. (OLD is the batting cages, Day game is coach pitch, Social Circle is Hitting off a tee, Nightclub game is Gametime)
 

paulanth

Space Monkey
space monkey
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May 18, 2017
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Thanks for your reply. You definitely hit the nail on the head with pushing the conversation more. I do need to work on my followup after I open. I think I've developed a second type of "approach anxiety" that involves being anxious about continuing the conversation since I've become comfortable with the initial approach part of things. I'm going to set my next goal to ask for a number for every open that I do. Trouble is about a third of my opens just say "thanks" and walk away. I'm missing the hook, I guess.

I've had no luck with the online game part of things (Tinder, bumble or POF). I think they tend to select against older men looking for younger women due to the age selection categories. Also, I'm not white (Filipino) and for what its worth, that works against me. Not that I'm throwing out excuses but I think its easier to generate attraction in person than to work against the first impression that is made on an online profile.

Made two approaches today and I tried to push the conversation but they both walked away. It wasn't they blew me off, they actually seemed flattered but they walked away as if the interaction was over anyways.
 

paulanth

Space Monkey
space monkey
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May 18, 2017
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So I think I picked up on a sticking point today. I made three approaches while running and shopping today. The girls I approach fall into generally three categories of response after a direct approach (i.e. Hey, I couldn't help myself but I had to tell you that I think you are cute). 1. A "thanks" with sometimes a strange look and they walk off. This takes place in 10% of approaches. 2. A excited "thanks! Thats really nice of you" and then they walk off. This takes place during about 80-90% of approaches. 3. A conversation and sometimes a number. About 10-20% of approaches. I realize there's nothing I can do about situation 1. What' about 2? I don't even get chance to introduce myself. Should I introduce myself as part of the opener? Would that create a better chance of keeping them around for the conversation?

Thanks!
 

paulanth

Space Monkey
space monkey
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May 18, 2017
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I should comment to those getting started in meeting women by cold approach, I have definitely noticed a difference between my approaches from #100 to #300 even though I'm still not getting the results I want. I suspect early on I was subcommunicating anxiety to the girl and that probably put the girl on edge. I noticed during my approach today (in a drugstore), I spoke slower, had a smile on my face and didn't subcommunicate any anxiety. I wasn't putting any importance on the outcome of the interaction. I can't let that keep me from pushing the interactions however, but I think I am making progress (very very slowly).

Btw, is this better off in field reports?
 

paulanth

Space Monkey
space monkey
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May 18, 2017
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So I went out to get between 5-10 approaches. Most of them didn't go anywhere. No numbers. I did start using a new opener for the last two which is more of a "drive by" where I turn and look at the girl and say "hey, you're cute!" followed by a hand shake and "I'm paulanth". Both conversations went further than any of my other ones this weekend but one was married and the other one told me she had a boyfriend when I asked for her number.

Does anyone else find this stuff exhausting?
 

paulanth

Space Monkey
space monkey
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May 18, 2017
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Today was the most deflating day that I've over the last year. I made an approach at a drugstore on the way home from work the typical way. Cute thin brunette. Got into a conversation which went well at first. Before I left, I went for the number. Her response? "Erm, how old are you?". I've had this before so I went to a guessing game. She guessed 35, then 36, then 43. I told her 61 to which she laughed. I told her 42 and her response was "Well, you're too old for me". I asked her how old she was. 32! I ended up telling her to have a nice day then I left. I was pretty pissed after I left. To make things worse, a co-worker walked around the corner just after I started talking to her which totally shook me. I managed to pull myself together to do another approach walking home (rejected again). I've talked to about 40 women over the last week and a half with no luck.

I'm pretty much through with this bullshit. Right now, this all seems like a scam that the creators of this website (and others) put on to take advantage of dudes who have some semblance of hope that this shit actually works.
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
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IMO, you should check your vibes. Remember, you are not 20 years old, you are 43.... What works for young(er) guys may not work for you...

Guys in 40's should be expected to be more mature, emotionally stable, ... You've seen the world already, you've seen pussy before, it's nothing new for you... You are a man, not a boy... You can't be needy at this point of life, trying for longer conversation and pushing interactions may give the impression that you are needy. Being needy is a killer of the interaction, as you might know... Avoid any smart openers, the girl knows right away what you are up to (thus she puts up her barriers up: "you are too old for me")

Try this: casual approach, no fancy opener at all, just say something casual. No stupid smiles, no flirting. Look in her eyes with solid look (never move your eyes away before she does). Cool, laid back, relaxed attitude... Low, vibing energy... Don't try to impress her with anything... If you are a professor, intelligent and good talker, ok, that's good, use it for your benefit. If not, rather keep reserved, let her talk...

If she blushes, looks down, gets nervous... Good, than you can give some genuine smile here and there, engage in more conversation... Ideally she should be talking more than you... If she is avoidant, looking away or to the sides, she is not really interested... Leave

She should perceive you as mature guy who is clearly interested in her, yet who is not needy for pussy (because he can get it some other place)...
 

paulanth

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 18, 2017
Messages
12
Drck,

Thanks for your advice. That was a frustrating day of approaches and I let it get the best of me. I'm getting back in the grind.

After reading your post, I also read this article from Chase. https://www.girlschase.com/content/what- ... o-you-give

I clearly fall in the second category. I learned the lesson of persistence and practice a long time ago, otherwise I wouldn't have accomplished anything I have now. In regards to meeting women, I'm not experimenting enough with how I approach and going for some kind of close (number close, insta-date or SDL). I really need some guidance on what I need to modify when I approach. I'm at about 400 approaches and clearly I'm spinning my wheels.

"casual approach, no fancy opener at all, just say something casual."
What do you mean by a more casual approach? Right now I walk up with a straight "hey, (long pause), you're cute", with more of a breaking tone. Not really high energy. I try not have any neediness when I say this. I'll work on adopting your other suggestions (eye contact, low energy). Any suggestions on what to follow-up with?
 

Straza

Space Monkey
space monkey
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Jan 8, 2017
Messages
34
Paulanth,

Chase made an article a while back for guys to read when they've reached an impasse. Have you seen it?

https://www.girlschase.com/content/what- ... nt-working

And how are your fundamentals coming along. Girls are much more open to your approach when you've got these handled. Your priorities should be fundamentals first, approaching second, assuming you haven't worked on your fundamentals yet.

Kudos to you for doing as many approaches as you have. I'm struggling with that at the moment.
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
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Right now I walk up with a straight "hey, (long pause), you're cute"

>>>> That is not casual. It might be good for younger guy when silliness is tolerated, but not for guy who is expected to be more mature. Don't make me wrong, there is no "only one way" to approach girls, everything can work - giving the right situation and attitude.

Have you ever had a strange women approaching you somewhere in public and say: "Hey, you are cute"? IMO it's weird (again, it is rather situational). She doesn't know you, you don't know who she is, and you are already telling her she is cute... The second you say it she knows what you are up to - you are out to "get" women, you want sex... She puts up her barriers right away, there is already a sexual tension...

What she's thinking now is: Ah, this guy is out to look for women, that is cute (big smile). He must be either lonely or player. Maybe he just broke up with his GF, has a broken heart. His next step will be to get good vibes from me, get my phone number, then he will text me and invite me out... Maybe I'm going to have to ignore his text, he will be hurt even more. Maybe I'll go out, we'll see, but I'm not in the mood now... We will go out and the same old, same old - where are you from, what are you doing, what do you like and dislike, do you want to be my wife because you are good looking... Oh, this guy is already so boring, predictable... I'll lead him on for couple minutes and flirt little bit so he is not discouraged to meet other women, but this will not work... His expectations are too high from me, he is already telling me that he likes me but he doesn't really know me... Poor guy, he has no clue about my bitchy side yet, LOL...

So she may have fun, she might be flirty, but she doesn't really give a damn... She is just nice...

-------

More casual would be something like:
She is looking at something, shopping ...
You approach, say Hi, I was wondering if you know where to find xyz... (anything to start conversation while avoiding "you are cute")
She starts talking, explaining, pointing out...
You rephrase, oh, did you mean this or that?, going left? blah blah...
She keeps talking...
You say: oh, by the way (point to what was she shopping for) that is cute, I have a friend who bought exactly the same thing, she loves it, blah blah...
... now the conversation is flowing rather naturally. It is neutral, there is no sexual tension, not at this time...

Just the fact that a guy approached her and talks to her is enough, at this time there is no sexual tension... (it's really there because you are a man and she is woman, but she has no clue about your intention, you didn't verbalized it yet)...

Now you observe her reactions. Is she cold? Open minded? Blushing? Excited? Anxious? Does she throw her BF in your face right away?

Ideally she should be in good mood, willing to talk spontaneously (do some extra talking without prompting), perhaps even ask something about you... Maybe she should be a little anxious, and excited ... Some women can get aroused on the spot, don't get confused, keep your cool.... Ideally she should also hint that she is available or at least open minded (most likely it won't happen at this point, but could)... if the signs are positive or at least neutral or confusing, push forward. You never know until you try. If they are negative, the conversation is not flowing, she is cold and throwing her BFs around - move on...

What she is thinking now is little bit different. Hey, this guy just approached me, he has balls to approach sexy women like me. He is looking for something, not necessary for pussy. He's cute and sexy, but he doesn't hit on me, so he must have couple of choices. Is he taken? I have to find out. The conversation is good, vibes are good, wow, and he's really sexy. Maybe I should find out more about this guy, he seems interesting... She might decide to go for a date, but this time she doesn't expect you to be needy - you are just a cool guy who has his life together, you like her and she likes you, so why not give it a chance?

This scenario is different: You approach a stranger and started neutral conversation. You wait and see how the interaction goes. If she likes you and is available, she will hint that (if you push forward)....

Don't get lost in conversation though. I've seen many rather Nice Guys to struck decent conversation with cute girl, but that is as far as they will go... They just talk and talk and talk, poor girl... You want to be a man that eventually pushes for physical interaction, maybe not right now but definitely later on... There is really no friendship, no cute talk - you know exactly what you want, you are just careful about it... it's not about sweet talking, and talking, it's really about being able to pull your balls out and let her have it...

Now in reality, she may really like you but she is already taken... That is just reality. So when you throw around numbers like 400, or 1000, these numbers are meaningless... We would have to know how many of these women are available - but they won't say... So you can't really count number of approaches and think that you are a failure, it doesn't work like that...

----------

Next thing - fundamentals. Fundamentals are big. You will greatly increase your chances by working on fundamentals. But be careful, it's got to fit your age, you are not 20 year old punk who throws his shoulders around, says loudly some stupid crap to show that he is cocky, pierces everybody around with his eyes, throws some sexy walks and smiles - and then he goes back home to live with his mommy and play video games...

You are 43 year old man, this will not work for you. You need to be more tuned socially. You need to have confidence in yourself. The more confidence the better, you just know what you want from life and nothing will stop you. No pussy will shake your confidence. Body language should be solid, straight, erected but relaxed. You never cover your dick with hands or other objects. You never protect yourself by folded arms, and your hands are never in the pocket. You are not a bum, you are high Value man, so behave like one. Look sincerely into other people's eyes, you are not a wheezl, you are a man. Solid hand shake, at least 3 secs... Neet voice, preferably deeper but should be natural...

You should have a job that you like, not just 9-5. At least make it seem that way, by now you should be settled, stable financially, stable emotionally,... it doesn't matter what job you have, but have one and respect it... have your own place, that shows independence... have some closer friends, couple good buddies, that is good enough... leave you buddy-losers behind, at this time you can't do much to fix their life, stop feeling sorry for them, let them go... be neat, clean, decent clothes (doesn't have to be expensive but it has to show that you care)... exercise, or at least keep lean, good diet... Keep your place clean...

Get some social circle, and there is no need to pretend - the bigger the better access to more females... How to get bigger social circle? Talk, be friendly, befriend different women regardless of their status, go when they invite you, invite others, show yourself, show who you are, duh... Easy, simple, very effective... no need to go overboard with any of these, rather use common sense...

If you don't have these you have to, assuming that you are looking for a good woman. Once you find good potential mate she will test you on these, and it's sucks when she bails out just because some of your buddies are losers, or you don't have your basic crap together...

Overall, you want to radiate sort of this aura: look at this guy, this is a man, he behaves like a man and talks like a man. He has his life together. He cares about his life, he cares about people in his life...

The trick is not in knowing these. Everybody with IQ 100 or more knows these, it is very simple. The trick is in DOING these... Remember, we men are expected to be simple...

I can promise you that the above is 90% of what you need to get a good woman. If she is available she will show up in your life. She will let you know very clearly that she is interested, she will hand you her phone phone number without you asking for it, she will offer to go for a drink... It's like a magic but it is really very simple - all women want is a mature man... If you have a big social circle it's even easier, because women talk, they know about you even before they meet you...

Also note hypergamy, a woman is willing to leave her current partner for more valuable man. You will be surprised how many women are willing to leave her current BF even husband, you will even feel bad when you experience that.... On occasions you will even have to run away, lol, because you don't know how to say NO to this cute female that is all over you - unless you are willing to practice some assholeness, lol. You want to be high Value man, it's not really that difficult, it's your nature... The rest 10% is just being careful not to screw up, e.g. Move forward when she gives you a green light, don't feel sorry for your ass, don't chase and so forth...

Good Luck
 

paulanth

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 18, 2017
Messages
12
This was really helpful and I got me thinking about the direction I want to take myself. For the last six months, I've been assuming that direct and straightforward is the way to go. I've also had to admit to myself that in a sense, I've become rather robotic about these approaches. I've put more emphasis on the approach rather than the entire interaction. Thanks, you've shook me out of that mindset.

I have most of my fundamentals handled. I dress professionally most of the time and appropriately for my age. Trying to get below 15% body fat (at 16% right now). Job is not an issue, I'm pretty much an expert in what I do and I enjoy it. I do really need to work on my eye contact and my social circle (I'm a bit of a workaholic).

Nice thing is that I find starting up conversations based on the situation so much EASIER than being so direct. Usually I just say "So what do you think of XYZ" regarding what is on a rack or shelf. Most women seem more than happy to give their opinion. I lost track of the women I spoke to today. I just need to work on the conversation piece a little more. So my goal for the next month is to focus on this type of approach and really focus on my eye contact. I noticed today that there are situations where I'll need to me more direct (she's walking somewhere and not stopped to look at something). I'm experiment with different methods of being direct when this happens.

Unfortunately, the size of my city (I'm in Florida) limits me from really being able to experiment with large numbers of approaches every day. I just don't run across many attractive women during the course of my day. I'm might take a short vacation and go somewhere bigger to try stuff out.
 

Sandman

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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Apr 18, 2016
Messages
356
@ Drck

I agree with "Hey, you're cute" opening may not be the best as it sounds a bit too general and impersonal for me. But your reply seems to advocate going indirect over direct. I've had successes and failures with both types of approach so I'm not in a position to say which works better. However, Chase recommends going direct and theory of it is good. Can you clarify why do you think indirect would work better?

You say she would think a guy who goes indirect is looking for something but not necessarly for pussy. What other motive would a guy have though? I mean, wouldn't the girl know exactly what you are trying to do? Wouldn't that be "hiding the banana"?

Or maybe I'm just misinterpreting?

@paulanth

Just remember you banged 3 girls from cold approach. How many will you bang once you get this skill set mastered? That's what keeps me going... Also I'm sure you got into situations you would have never gotten into if you hadn't started cold approaching. I thinks those encounters are really interesting and makes life colorful.
 

ray_zorse

Modern Human
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Aug 12, 2014
Messages
1,982
Hey Paulanth great going so far. I'm 41 so can identify. Well firstly stay positive, it took me more like a year and 1000s of approaches (not just 300) to get results I could be happy with. Although I could be a slow learner and/or starting from further behind the curve so it does not mean you can't just go out tomorrow with a few tweaks to your game and start getting mega pussy but I am just saying if it does take a bit more hard work and dedication just stick at it, you are doing fine and will get there. 3 lays you say? AWESOME.

So its a diagnosis issue and I reckon I have a diagnosis for you, but firstly a quick checklist on fundamentals:
Fashion: Wearing a shirt, not too loose (usually size S or M) and trousers or jeans, again not too loose, decent loafers or boots (and clean them every time you go out).
Haircut, facial hair: Something like a short back and sides or a hipster type cut will make you look younger. A bit of stubble is a very good idea (goatee okay).
Accessorization: Wear something like rings or a bracelet or a necklace, no need to overdo it. Also cologne (although lately people are saying your natural scent is better).
Teeth: If you haven't looked into whitening, do so. It takes a bit of time and dedication but results will be worth it.
Posture: Shoulders back, not leaning in to conversations, a good walk also helpful.
Eye contact: Super important, maintain it slightly beyond what is comfortable (you can look away occasionally in conversation but DO NOT look down as it's submissive). Make sure you do not check her out or otherwise catch her eye until the actual approach or be obviously scanning (eye contact discipline).
Your body: You say you're into Muay Thai so hopefully this won't need too much attention but you need to be going to the gym regularly, women like a bit of muscle.

So now that you have the basics handled, I think your issue is firstly your conversation (this is the most overlooked fundamental) and, in a related sense, your process.

Chase used to have a product called the Spellbinding conversation series, I thought this was a very good product although Chase has often said in forums he felt the production was rushed, I don't know if it's still available because I believe Chase's new course has probably been released by now which would also cover conversation. But anyhow, conversation has some very specific techniques you can use. Basically the idea is to get her talking about herself. And while she is talking about herself, you are using the opportunity to RELATE to her. So if she says for example, "my parents died when I was very young" you can say "ohh exactly, I lost my dad when ..." or some such thing. You are also REWARDING her conversational efforts and praising her achievements, so if she says "I have been learning martial arts since 2 years ago" you can say "ohh that is so incredible that you decided to take it up as an adult, learning martial arts is SO IMPORTANT, blah blah". This sets you up as an authority and it makes her feel good about talking to you, it also subtly pressures her to put effort into the conversation and starts putting her in a cycle where she's working to earn your praise. There is a lot more to it than this, the Spellbinding series goes into at least 5 or 10 specific techniques along these lines. You can research this area yourself.

The next thing is your process, pickup is ALL about process. If you haven't read Chase's ebook on this, you should (again the ebook's probably been superseded by the new course material but I can't advise on that). What's important is you have firstly your demographic for the women you go for: Let's say she's around 30, fit and wearing workout gear and she's shopping for health foods in Trader Joes, then you already know a fair bit about her. Say this is the type of women you generally approach, then you will have a checklist of the kinds of things she would be interested in and the kinds of conversation you can have. Of course there's no problem in going outside your demographic from time to time and striking when the opportunity arises, but the point is that by practice you can avoid all kinds of conversational pitfalls and steer things the way you want them to go. This is much easier when you are having the same kinds of conversations over and over again. You will then tend to notice that you are fucking up at the same point every time (for example, every time she asks you what your job is, you're breaking eye contact and stumbling a bit, and losing attraction), so you will devise some prepared response to use at that point in the interaction. This is particularly helpful later in dealing with LMR or other resistance.

Okay so now some specific comments: Firstly, do not open the encounter by saying "Excuse me". I prefer "Hi there" or "Hey, stop for a moment!". The compliment "I just HAD to stop you and say your have the most AMAZING xxx" is nice and it works but I believe the most value from this is in training you that you CAN and SHOULD say what you think and not suppress it mentally. Since getting better at pickup I've found it's easy to strike up conversations anywhere and everywhere and she will never even realize she's been "approached". For example I was walking towards work the other day, I saw a cute ass in tights in front of me. I felt the familiar rush of adrenaline as I came up beside her and saw she was eating something, so I said "hey... where's mine, I'm hungry!"... she laughed and then I followed up with "actually I do have something" (I was carrying my lunch) and showed her an orange... "between us we have a meal!"... she laughed again. And then I went into the normal routine like "so you're on the way to work now?" ... etc. [As a general note, don't ask questions, or if you do, suggest the response to it, and try to phrase it as a statement that she can contradict if she wants, you seem less needy, you seem like you "get" her and the challenges she faces in her day, and you don't put the conversational work onto her].

Secondly, about the "ask"... there is a whole skillset just in this as well. Over time I have realized the "ask" is 90% about timing, you don't want to ask too early when you haven't built enough rapport and you also don't want to ask too late when the converation has crescendoed and she is preparing to say "ohh well I have to get back to work now" and politely end the encounter. You need to build the necessary amount of attraction (no need to overdo it) and then ask and get the number and then talk for a bit longer (again, no need to overdo it) and then disengage before you can fuck up. As you get better at it you'll have a kind of a clock running and you "know" when to pitch it to her. One example is, I used to do quite a bit of approaching on trains, occasionally I would lose my drivers license for a few months and would have to do school dropoffs / pickups by train. So I'd approach some hotty in the station and get on the train with her, order her to sit next to me [compliance building] and start the ordinary conversational steps, pretty soon I'd know where she was going and what station she was getting off at, my brain would be in the background checking off the stations until that stop, and then I would ask her out when she was about 2-3 stations away from getting off. And I would do it pretty casually, none of this "hey I don't normally do this but ..." it would be like "I am very much enjoying hearing you explain xxx, let's continue this over a coffee later in the week" and grab the number.

Hope it helps dude. Start a journal and post some FRs too and I am sure you'll be picking up like a boss in no time. And don't forget to warm up and talk to EVERYONE!
cheers, Ray
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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Messages
1,488
mmre: "But your reply seems to advocate going indirect over direct. I've had successes and failures with both types of approach so I'm not in a position to say which works better. However, Chase recommends going direct and theory of it is good. Can you clarify why do you think indirect would work better?"

>>>> IMO there is really no better or worse, rather everything is situational... Some things may work better, others less - but still work... Yet another things, no matter what you do, just don't work at all....

If she doesn't find you attractive, direct or indirect (or other things) don't really matter, there is not much you can do...

If she shows some interest (looking at you, comes closer to you, or gives other hints that she might be interested), direct is most likely better approach because it shows masculinity. But that also depends on your overall personality...

If she is not aware of you but you think she's cute, IMO indirect is better approach. It is sort of making sure that she realizes you are there, and then you go based on her reactions....
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Think about it this way: If she sees you and finds you attractive, thinks that you are a possible match that she is looking for, she will give you invitations. So you simply accept the invitation, walk towards her and show interest. It is straightforward, that is what she expect from man. You already know she is attracted, you see that she is in positive and open mood, there is no reason to hide your intentions... If you hesitate in this scenario, if you show shyness and weakness, you will lose her...

On the other hand, if she doesn't know that you are there, maybe doesn't even see you, walking towards her and telling her she is cute could be interpreted rather as creepy, even if you are attractive. In other words, she didn't invite you, and you just don't know in what mood she is in... Why risk direct approach? In this scenario it is better to use indirect approach rather start neutrally...

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Another thing to consider is your overall frame. Frame is very important. For example:

If you are not too masculine yet present with high masculine frame (quite direct approach) at first, you may also lose her. The reason is, that you will set up high expectations in her at the beginning, but then you fail to live to it... For example, you approach her directly, you set great masculine frame, in her eyes you seem really confident and experienced, so she gives you a window... But what's next? If you don't know or hesitate (weak masculine frame), she will realize that you are not really that confident and/or experienced as you appeared at first... She will throw a shit test at you to find out what is going on, and your frame will collapse... You will never see her again...

So with weaker masculine frame, IMO better way is indirect approach. You don't set high expectations, you don't seem overly confident and sexy, you perhaps even appear (or play) shy... So she knows what to expect from you. But in the same token, you should also keep your original frame, you should not change into a wild animal once you get her separated from the crowd...


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So to recap, it's not really what's better or worse, it is rather relative to the situation and your overall personality (frame). You can be 40 year old boy, or you can be 40 year old man - which one are you? Find out, and then be in tune with your personality... If you are more mature, if you have more masculine frame and you can keep it when she gives you windows, it is good. Direct (masculine) is better in that case, you are risking more but rewards are also high.
If you are less masculine, perhaps rather immature, indirect might work better for you - you are simply not setting yourself for a failure...

IMO a good rule is to start neutrally, with no expectations, then you go further depending on vibes...
 

paulanth

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 18, 2017
Messages
12
Thanks for the responses. They have been really helpful. I also appreciate the positive comments. Its been tough going lately. I approached a new coworker by accident and it's thrown me off my game. I'm constantly paranoid about approaching students and co-workers that I don't recognize and it doesn't help at all.

I've been trying a more indirect approach lately. Not much luck so far. I've gotten one number from the last 50 approaches. It's definitely easier to approach indirectly but its harder to transition to intent than when I was going to direct. I usually get some opinion about something on the shelf or table that she is looking at in a store. Most of them are happy to offer it and some even seem interested but rarely go anywhere. I really need to work on my conversation as Ray stated. I think your advice about having a process will help me out too.

I think most of my fundamentals are handled. I didn't think of teeth whitening and I'll look into that. I've kept in shape since my divorce and I can pull off medium shirts pretty well (I'm pushing 16-17% BF right now). Unfortunately, I keep my head shaved but I sport a goatee or stubble most of the year. My eye contact really needs work however.

I think I'm going to start mixing things up and try to read the situations individually. I can see how my direct opens have been to general and I'll try the more specific one that Ray mentioned. In the meantime, I'll keep working on my indirect approaches and the followup conversation. The problem is that this town is fairly small and I usually only run into 1-2 women a day that I find attractive.

Regarding demographics, do you older guys approach across the board in terms of age or do you focus on 30+?

Thanks again...
 

CCIF3

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 29, 2017
Messages
24
Man, I think it might be your looks. Florida's similar to Socal in that it's extremely superficial. What do you look like? [Height, weight, bf%, hair, what brands of clothing]
 
a good date brings a smile to your lips... and hers

dcman

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
96
I approach girls regardless of age. As a pre screen I ask them their age first and say mine based on it. The friends I hang out out of work are guys from my gym in their 20's so I do not feel awkward when I interact with girls in their 20's as it feels normal to me. I feel as long I am relaxed and comfortable the girls feel the same with me. Hope this helps.
 

Seppuku

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
1,149
Hey paulanth,

Welcome to the GC boards. We definitely need more oldies ;-) here, and I'm an oldie myself LOL.

My favorite age range is say 22 to 28. They still have some carefree minds, with a sense of enjoyment.

When they are past 32, it's more complicated, as they have a whole number of biological clocks ringing. They have their (long) list of checkboxes that you need to be ticking, and they're generally more full of BS, e.g. "no sex before xxx dates", "a real gentleman must be X, X, X, and X" etc... They tend to lose touch with their femininity in the process. Well of course there are exceptions - I have had my share of 30 to 34 - but expect more work and more BS to go through.

Cheers,
Seppuku
 
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