omg why did i have to mess this one up...

[foggy]

Was talking with a tinder girl....everything was going well. We bonded over veganism, then started flirting, then transitioned into making plans. But I believe I said some things in the making plans part of the conversation that caused by attainability to drop. I would like your help in analysing what went wrong. I attached the whole convo. If you don't feel like reading about the veganism or flirting, skip to the making plans section.

Intro

Bean Machine: hey, what does being a recovering vegan consist of? (i have "recovering vegan" in my tinder bio.)
Fog: means i used to be a happy vegan then i almost died from starvation
Bean Machine: :| well thats no good. what went wrong?
Fog: not sure. I wish I could have stayed vegan though. why did you go vegan?
Bean Machine: Couldn't handle knowing I was eating things I didn't need that came from the suffering of living things *Heartbreak emoticon*
Bean Machine: did you do any nutrition research before you switched?
Fog: you would not believe how much research i did
Fog: Bean Machine, my heart broke when I heard about how some leathers are made...
Bean Machine: Oh god I can't handle that. The fur and down industry too.
Fog: The good part is that improvements are being made like they are able to grow leather in a lab.
Bean Machine: Pleather is my favvvv haha
Bean Machine: Yeah they're working on growing "meat" in tubes too but I don't really know what that entails

Flirting + Roleplay

Fog: omg u r my dream girl
Fog: that just sounds GROSS I would N E V E R eat meat made in a tube. Beans 4 lyfe.
Bean Machine: Because I've heard vague whisperings about meat tubes...?
Bean Machine: YES #TEAMBEANS
Fog: what? vague whisperings? nvm we are divorced
Bean Machine: Cool! Dibs on half your stuff
Bean Machine: And you get sole custody of our 18 children
Fog: Dear, why are you referring to our 18 houseplants as CHILDREN?
Bean Machine: Well I've clearly lost my mind if I agreed to sign the divorce papers in the first place *kissy face emoticon* *smile and wink emoticon*
Fog: are you trying to get back together with me just so the hashtag #teambeans will ring true again?
Bean Machine: I just haven't been able to stop thinking about you

Making Plans

This is where I think things went wrong. I have bolded my answers that I felt could have negatively influenced things.

Fog: hahaahaha you are hilarious we should hang
Bean Machine: Yeah totally
Bean Machine: What do you typically do on an outing?
Fog: well it depends on who I'm with but if I'm meeting a girl, I believe it's best to keep it simple. distractions are not good for building a connection with each other
Bean Machine: ah so you're typically out with a girl? *smile and wink emoticon*
Fog: typically I'm at home thinking about you and i and our 18 houseplants.. but that gets boring so sometimes i hire 10 strippers.
Fog: and you? what do you usually do when youre hanging out with a guy
Bean Machine: aha sounds like a wild time
Bean Machine: Depends on the person I guess. I like cafes and restaurants, movie nights, drinks and art and dancing, galleries, dog parks, thrifting
Fog: omg thrifting *heart eyes emoji* you get points for that
Fog: Have you ever been to CAFE NAME?
Bean Machine: I have not! Is it good?
Fog: It's amazing! We should go.

This is where our conversation ends. She was replying quickly to me. However, her last reply was Tuesday morning, and it is now Wednesday evening.

Here's why I think each bolded line had a negative impact:

1. well it depends on who I'm with but if I'm meeting a girl, I believe it's best to keep it simple. distractions are not good for building a connection with each other

I explicitly mention that I have experience with dating and building connections with other girls, which possibly lowers my attainability.

2. typically I'm at home thinking about you and i and our 18 houseplants.. but that gets boring so sometimes i hire 10 strippers

She said "so you're typically out with a girl" which I viewed as sort of a shit test at the time...It was quite natural for her to say something like this given my push pull with her. I replied with this non-logical ridiculous answer which calls back the roleplay, but neither confirms nor denies her question. I think maybe I misunderstood the subcontext of why she asked this, and there could have been a better answer.

3. you get points for that

Just a stupid, totally unnecessary, uncalibrated, dumb way to qualify her here. I feel like this is a rookie mistake and it makes me want to rip my hair out. If my attainability dropped due to answer 1, then this comment made it drop even lower.

What do you think? And what would you say next?

 

[Cacc]

You overprovided good feelings and now she's satiated. No need to see you now that she got good feelings from you. You cemented yourself as the friendly fun texting guy rather than the cool stranger she has to invest more intocto get good feelings from him.

So what happened is there was an emotional peak but instead of asking her out you kept trying to connect with her. By the time you asked her out the emotions were waning and she flaked.

You need to understand when to stop forcing rapport and close the deal. Way too much effort in your texts, needy texting, and providing too many good feelings without her earning it.


There's the cool, friendly, neutral guy that everyone likes and is always uplifting and fun and then there's the sexy, dominant, chill guy who a lot of people might not like but they still respect and gets women's pussy wet.

Looks like you might be leaning too much towards the former. Being well liked =/= Sexual attraction.

 

[MickDavies]

I'm reading this that the 'how are you a recovering vegan' question was the beginning of the conversation & she sent the first message. If so, then first off congrats on the strength of your profile! In my experience it is rare for an attractive girl to send the first message, it's the online equivalent of her giving you a direct opener in day game, although a little less rare. One result of that is that they are usually pretty terrible at it. I've had girls send me the silliest openers online, it makes me laugh when I hear them talking about how cheesy us men are when we message them.

I read that first message as 'Hi, you have intrigued me so much by your profile that I am doing something I basically never do to get you to notice me. I feel a little awkward about that & don't really know what to say but someone said once that that you should pick something random in their profile & ask them about it. So I'm asking you this thing I don't really care about. Please validate me by replying & moving the conversation somewhere more productive'.

So you did the first half of what she asked for, you just forgot that she wasn't actually looking for an answer to the surface question she was asking & gave a serious reply. By her second or third message she is already realising that you probably aren't going to be leading the relationship into a date & she begins trying to taking her power back to dominate the situation (framed as her being a non failed vegan).

What I would look to do from my first message is cut thread since there is no mileage in this conversation leading to you fucking her, it is just her attempt to establish conversation. Then chase frame it as her silly little pickup line because she wants to be with you & invite her to some cute vegan restaurant you know, ideally near your place. You should be able to do that within 3-4 messages with a fair chance of success, especially in this situation as she is clearly interested, you have dominated both her and the situation & she still has an open loop she wants to close since you have only partially validated her (you responded but not with a direct answer to her question).

The only other thing to consider is that it may be that it would never have turned into anything anyway. I genuinely believe some girls are on the site because they want a pen pal but even then it would have left you far less invested & with more time to spend on more productive relationships.

 

[Hue]

I agree with Cacc, you over provided good feelings and built too much of a connection over text - and for an arena like Tinder, she was satiated with the attention you were giving her.

Humor, sarcasm, and witty texts = effort by you, despite their utility in attracting / connecting, which ultimately can screw you. Like chase has said, being funny isn't always helpful in seduction and can push you towards more of a jester role. When you're making her crack up in person, at least you can leverage the good feelings with physical escalation - over text this is not the case.

As far as the timing with asking her out, I probably would have slipped in getting a drink / coffee / food (in your case, vegan food to keep the similarity up) while doing your whole "married-divorce" role play. Something like,

Her: Cool! Dibs on half your stuff
Her: And you get sole custody of our 18 children
Me: You're the one who paid to get my vasectomy reversed darling, we'll figure the papers out later
Me: First let's get away from the kids this week and enjoy some tequila/coffee

The vasectomy is adding sex onto the marriage thing, then get's to business with plans as emotions are still rising.

If you guys were back and forth texting I would imagine this makes a good example of Emotional Cresting (I forgot to reply to you in my FR about emotional spiking, there's like half a draft of one, but this will do a much better job at explaining the phenomena), but then you ask her to hang AFTER the peak.

I would say you could have been more sexual overall. In addition, (without trying to rip you too much of a new asshole lol - it's all love brotha) you didn't lead and specify with plans, which is your job as the guy. In summary, my opinion is that the conversation fizzled out for three reasons:

1). Her emotions had already peaked.
What goes up, must come down. You want her to make a decision, and then feel better, rather than her make her decision and having things start to fizzle.

2). You didn't lead enough.
You did lead, but you didn't specify plans the first time you asked her, "we should hang" can work to segue to actual plans, but then you don't specify after she asks you what you might have planned. She wants a train to jump on board of, and it's your job to be the conductor.

3). Your response to the shit-test could have been better.
I think you're right about the attainability & the shit test, which gave you a chance to impress her with how you answer it. Your response, "typically I'm at home thinking about you and I and our 18 houseplants.. but that gets boring so sometimes I hire 10 strippers." is alright because it's ridiculous, but could have been framed better as you being high value.

Her: ah so you're typically out with a girl?
Fog: every day of the week! usually we hop on a plane and figure it out later

Fog: every day of the week! sometimes just for fucking, sometimes we splurge and she'll buy us a 1000$ dinner

Fog: well that depends if I'm with Kendall Jenner or my grandma. Kendall likes buying us movie tickets but grammy's the skydiving type.

I will say though that for an on the fly conversation - I like your spontaneity, your sense of humor, and your quick ability to create similarly with this one. Consider taking a look at a few things I said, I hope it helps bruh bruh.

Hue